The Hazards of Belief

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

And I used to think the Dutch were such a level-headed bunch

Only where it is possible for calming herbs to be inhaled.

It was the Dutch who created a massive economic bubble based on tulips after all.

Obliq

Sarky wrote: »

They're too chicken to man up and claim responsibility for their own sins. I've seen some crazy rituals in my time but this is a bit of ostrich of the imagination.

Seriously though, poor birds. Religion excuses all kinds of cruelty in its name.

Not defending the practice (although I'm wondering if it could be a profitable way of getting shot of the numerous cockerels my hens produce every year.....if I stood over the sinners shouting "kill him quickly, you weren't that bad!" like.. ) but unless you're vegetarian or a meat eater who knows exactly how your free range chicken lived and died, I cry foul on this particular cruelty being exclusive to religion. Have you ever SEEN how your roast chicken dinner was raised? Ew, folks. Just nasty, and apparently ok with us all.

robindch

Here ya go, folks. Only catholics can hear the "voice of conscience", unlike your regular atheist who's self-righteousness, conformist and intellectual lazy.

Time for a baby sandwich, I suppose.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/only-a-catholic-can-have-a-conscience-243468.html

Some Canadian Guy wrote:

Regarding Pope Francis’ comments on atheists and heaven, (Irish Examiner, Sept 12), let me say that celibacy has a spiritual dimension that transcends discipline.

In an article published by L’Osservatore Romano, Stefan Heid, professor of liturgy and hagiography at the Pontifical Institute of Christian Archeology, said “according to the judgement of the early Church, ecclesiastical celibacy has dogmatic relevance...When Jesus spoke of the eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven [for example], it was understood as perfect continence for all of the disciples, regardless of whether or not the Apostles were married.”

Pope Francis also said that God would forgive atheists, as long as they “live according to their consciences.” What the pontiff fails to say is that all people have a duty to achieve an informed conscience, but this can only be through Catholic teaching. This is important, because the conscience can, in some, be degraded at its core to a mechanism of excuses for one’s conduct.

The atheist incrementally constructs a wall of resistance to belief in God. This neglect of one’s being dulls one to the voice of truth and makes one incapable of hearing the voice of conscience. Convictions, then, might seem rational, but are only the product of self-righteousness, conformism, and intellectual laziness.

Paul Kokoski, Ontario, Canada

Obliq

robindch wrote: »

Here ya go, folks. Only catholics can hear the "voice of conscience", unlike your regular atheist who's self-righteousness, conformist and intellectual lazy.

Time for a baby sandwich, I suppose.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/only-a-catholic-can-have-a-conscience-243468.html

He seems to have difficulties with the notion of conscience then? My 1923 Webster's dictionary (to hand because it has great archaic words for scrabble and beautiful drawings) defines conscience as "a faculty, power or principle conceived to decide as to the moral quality of one's own thoughts or acts, enjoining what is good."
Isn't that the same thing as a mechanism of excuses (reasons) for one's conduct?

Obliq

Obliq wrote: »

He seems to have difficulties with the notion of conscience then? My 1923 Webster's dictionary (to hand because it has great archaic words for scrabble and beautiful drawings) defines conscience as "a faculty, power or principle conceived to decide as to the moral quality of one's own thoughts or acts, enjoining what is good."
Isn't that the same thing as a mechanism of excuses (reasons) for one's conduct?

DAMN this netbook. Sorry all - can't delete the triple post from here, grrr. Bad android, BAD.

Edit: Found option hiding in corner. Good android.

recedite

Just googling that "eunoch" thing. The guy seems to be saying that celibacy is a superior, or more divine, state of existence. Hence clerical celibacy.
But the actual verse goes;

bible wrote:

They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?
He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery,
The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

To me that means;
1. Divorce is OK in certain circumstances.
2. If you can't be satisfied with just one partner, its better to remain celibate (or castrate yourself).

Its amazing how they came up with all the stuff over the years about priestly celibacy and never allowing divorce, from such an unremarkable bit of text.

Obliq

recedite wrote: »

Just googling that "eunoch" thing. The guy seems to be saying that celibacy is a superior, or more divine, state of existence. Hence clerical celibacy.
But the actual verse goes;

(Quote of text....)

To me that means;
1. Divorce is OK in certain circumstances.
2. If you can't be satisfied with just one partner, its better to remain celibate (or castrate yourself).

Its amazing how they came up with all the stuff over the years about priestly celibacy and never allowing divorce, from such an unremarkable bit of text.

And that's the letter to the Examiner, right there

Nodin

An uplifting tale of rural India.....

A young couple who were planning to marry were brutally murdered in the Indian state of Haryana on Wednesday. Police are treating the case as an "honour crime". The BBC's Zubair Ahmed visited the village in Rohtak district where the incident took place.

There were about two dozen grim-faced people - all men - waiting at the
village cremation ground for the body of a young woman who was beaten to death allegedly by the same waiting crowd.

First, Nidhi was beaten to death and then Dharmender was dismembered alive.

A man who identified himself as Nidhi's uncle looked dazed, or even
bewildered.

When I asked him to explain why two young people were so brutally murdered, his eyes quickly filled with anger and his reply met with approving nods: "What was done to them was the right thing to do. We had to set an example."

An example for other young men and women to not fall in love.

"Our culture is not like you have in the city. Here our women live behind
curtains," said a young man in the crowd.

"The village doesn't approve of love affairs here. They were from the same
caste, lived in the same lane in the same village," said another.

The man and the woman belonged to the same Jat community and shared the same gotra - the sub-caste - which made them brother and sister, he explained politely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-24170866

joseph brand

recedite wrote: »

Just googling that "eunoch" thing. The guy seems to be saying that celibacy is a superior, or more divine, state of existence. Hence clerical celibacy.
But the actual verse goes;
To me that means;
1. Divorce is OK in certain circumstances.
2. If you can't be satisfied with just one partner, its better to remain celibate (or castrate yourself).

Its amazing how they came up with all the stuff over the years about priestly celibacy and never allowing divorce, from such an unremarkable bit of text.

I thought the reason for the whole celibacy was that the church didn't have to provide for the priest's family upon his death. Like everything else:

PopePalpatine

Does the unwelcome appearance of a copy of "Nearly Dead!" "Alive!" in my house count as a hazard of belief? I had a glance at it out of curiosity, and it just depresses me that there are such miserable, hateful bastards out there.

kylith

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Does the unwelcome appearance of a copy of "Nearly Dead!" "Alive!" in my house count as a hazard of belief? I had a glance at it out of curiosity, and it just depresses me that there are such miserable, hateful bastards out there.

I used some pages from it as part of a repair to a wall in my house and I insisted on writing "I do not agree with the views of this paper" on it so that should any future archaeologists or historians find it they'll know that the views espoused in it are not necessarily those of the general populace.

robindch

As I think Beruthiel said last year, I stopped getting it when it went single-ply.

Hotblack Desiato

One of our staunch defenders of traditional Irishcatholic 'values' had an alarmed-sounding letter in the Irish Times yesterday :

Sir, – There are two referendums being put to the people on October 4th. People know a little about one but nothing about the other. The first, we are told by our political masters, is about the abolition of the Seanad, and the second is about the setting up of a new court.

But that is only a fraction of the story, and I guarantee you that if we don’t get a majority No vote to both of these referendums, we, the people, will have betrayed our children and future generations in the most unbelievable way. We will have handed them over, lock, stock and barrel to the EU justice system, and Big Brother will then be free – finally – to impose its brand of law on us and on our children.

Already the plans are well advanced, both here and in Europe to bring in an “effective mechanism to enforce respect for EU law” on our people. EU Justice Commissioner, Viviane Reding, has described this mechanism. And the Commission will not be afraid, we are told, to use the “big stick” it is carrying, to enforce its brand of justice on our people.

Our politicians are a thundering disgrace. I will be voting No in both referendums. – Yours, etc,

NORA BENNIS,

North Circular Road,

Limerick.

Oh no! Unspecified doom is nigh for reasons unstated!!!

Thought she'd want to get rid of the Seanad, it helped introduce gayness into the country and is full of protestants...:rolleyes:

Banbh

The Yes campaign should circulate this letter.

Brian Shanahan

ninja900 wrote: »

One of our staunch defenders of traditional Irishcatholic 'values' had an alarmed-sounding letter in the Irish Times yesterday :

Oh no! Unspecified doom is nigh for reasons unstated!!!

Thought she'd want to get rid of the Seanad, it helped introduce gayness into the country and is full of protestants...:rolleyes:

Ah, good old Nora Bennis, good to see that she is still fulfilling her job as town dunce.

PopePalpatine

She doesn't mind "Big Brother" when it's God and the Church.

robindch

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Ah, good old Nora Bennis, good to see that she is still fulfilling her job as town dunce.

Nora Bennis? Never heard of her, but google has. Think of her as older version of Dana without the former singing talent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Bennis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_(Ireland,_1995)
http://electionsireland.org/4190
http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/nora-bennis/
http://www.oneworldchronicle.com/?p=16158
http://books.google.ie/books?id=qZ6W1LiIyYYC&pg=PA277&lpg=PA277&dq=Nora+Bennis&source=bl&ots=Fy2ilNFrYx&sig=S7kvK6erQlCk7nkJH9uq-_9CPAQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gy1EUpKUC8jH7AbfyYCoCw&ved=0CGcQ6AEwDQ

Ye gods.

Hoagy

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Ah, good old Nora Bennis, good to see that she is still fulfilling her job as town dunce.

That name has always sounded to me like an anagram, so I tried it online and got

'BORN INSANE'

TwoShedsJackson

robindch wrote: »

Nora Bennis? Never heard of her, but google has. Think of her as older version of Dana without the former singing talent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Bennis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_(Ireland,_1995)
http://electionsireland.org/4190
http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/nora-bennis/
http://www.oneworldchronicle.com/?p=16158
http://books.google.ie/books?id=qZ6W1LiIyYYC&pg=PA277&lpg=PA277&dq=Nora+Bennis&source=bl&ots=Fy2ilNFrYx&sig=S7kvK6erQlCk7nkJH9uq-_9CPAQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gy1EUpKUC8jH7AbfyYCoCw&ved=0CGcQ6AEwDQ

Ye gods.

I remember her from back in the day - she was very active in the 90s on all the usual topics - divorce, abortion etc. etc. Don't seem to ever remember hearing anything from her on Church sexual abuse etc. Shocking.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/tag/nora-bennis/

Also involved in setting up The National Party in 1994, a home for Catholic right-wingers.

Colonialboy

interesting 270 pages and counting of people talking about something they dont believe in

Bannasidhe

Colonialboy wrote: »

interesting 270 pages and counting of people talking about something they dont believe in

Interesting enough that you believed you should comment.

PopePalpatine

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

I remember her from back in the day - she was very active in the 90s on all the usual topics - divorce, abortion etc. etc. Don't seem to ever remember hearing anything from her on Church sexual abuse etc. Shocking.

http://irishelectionliterature.wordpress.com/tag/nora-bennis/

Also involved in setting up The National Party in 1994, a home for Catholic right-wingers.

That reminds me, I just discovered an abortive attempt by David Quinn at setting up a far-right party called the "National Alliance". :rolleyes:

robindch

Colonialboy wrote: »

interesting 270 pages and counting of people talking about something they dont believe in

Have a look at the thread title, then read a few pages and see if you can find the hidden connection.

Do let us know if you've any trouble figuring it out.

TwoShedsJackson

Colonialboy wrote: »

interesting 270 pages and counting of people talking about something they dont believe in

I have 102 pages here. Maybe it's my lack of faith in the extra pages..

Pherekydes

Colonialboy wrote: »

interesting 270 pages and counting of people talking about something they dont believe in

This thread is about the hazards of belief, not about belief itself, so we've no problem discussing it.

P.S. 102 pages here, too.

Sarky

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

I have 102 pages here. Maybe it's my lack of faith in the extra pages..

Nothing so magical, Colonialboy probably just has his viewing options still set at 'noob'.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

Nothing so magical, Colonialboy probably just has his viewing options still set at 'noob'.

My viewing options are set at noob

Sarky

lol noob

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

lol noob

Changing viewing option...

recedite

Hoagy wrote: »

'BORN INSANE'

and from a long line of Shinners....

wiki wrote:

Bennis was born Nora Shinners, the daughter of Paul Shinners, a veteran of the Easter Rising and Fianna Fáil supporter

But seriously, look at that rate of decline in her support;
http://electionsireland.org/4190
Quite satisfying really.