The Hazards of Belief

recedite

At first I was thinking, why go to some derelict ex-mining town in Ukraine if you want to make money with this bollox?
But when you think about it, if the three Buffys went to a rich and prosperous country, like Norway for example, they would be laughed out of it.

Many of those unfortunate Ukrainians have obviously suffered from deprivation, boredom, domestic violence, poor education, and all with little or no social welfare. These horrible exploitative people are offering them a religious straw to clutch at. And as one of the girls in the video said, "they are drinking it up". The performance is all smoke, mirrors and bling, but when the Americans go home, the local pastor who flew them over will be cashing in, slowly but surely, over the longer term .

FouxDaFaFa

recedite wrote: »

At first I was thinking, why go to some derelict ex-mining town in Ukraine if you want to make money with this bollox?
But when you think about it, if the three Buffys went to a rich and prosperous country, like Norway for example, they would be laughed out of it.

Many of those unfortunate Ukrainians have obviously suffered from deprivation, boredom, domestic violence, poor education, and all with little or no social welfare. These horrible exploitative people are offering them a religious straw to clutch at. And as one of the girls in the video said, "they are drinking it up". The performance is all smoke, mirrors and bling, but when the Americans go home, the local pastor who flew them over will be cashing in, slowly but surely, over the longer term .

Exactly. Here's a Vice documentary about them.

They target these crowds full of desperate drug addicts and sexual abuse victims who have never been able to get help in dealing with what happened to them. They're worked up into a frenzy, reliving hugely traumatic events and then "poof", they're cured by the wonderful exorcist. They'll feel a high for a few days but it's no cure, but by the time they realise that the exorcists have moved on to the next town.

If you watch the full documentary, at the last place they go to, they encounter their first member of the audience who you could actually argue to be insane. Lots previous to her would be like "oh, there's a demon within me" but this poor woman seemed like she was suffering some kind of psychotic break, she was convinced she was a vessel for the devil.

You think this would be the perfect chance for the Reverend to help someone, right?

Nope, he has her (literally) thrown out of the room.
He's a show-boating asshole and he's taking down three innocent girls with him, who think they're saving the world.

Banbh

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/mother-murder-adopted-daughter-freeze

Crazy Christians in US allow child freeze to death. They claim they were following a Christian book To Train Up a Child.

Banbh

This book is available on Amazon. I've sent a complaint but it is seriously worrying that this stuff is available. It should be treated in the same way as other child-exploitative material.

Please send complaints to any outlets that sell the book.
Regards Banbh

Sycopat

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2013/09/10/another-measles-outbreak-in-a-religious-community/


The Anti-vaccination lobby gets my blood up.

I seriously wonder if it could or should be considered a form of child abuse.

SebBerkovich

Banbh wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/mother-murder-adopted-daughter-freeze

Crazy Christians in US allow child freeze to death. They claim they were following a Christian book To Train Up a Child.

Did i seriously just read that "religion had been deemed not relevant to the criminal case."

How the hell did they come to that conclusion.. "Listen guys, God's got a pretty solid alibi for this one, witnesses say that he was helping a lady find a parking spot in Sacramento"

coffee_cake

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Did i seriously just read that "religion had been deemed not relevant to the criminal case."

How the hell did they come to that conclusion.. "Listen guys, God's got a pretty solid alibi for this one, witnesses say that he was helping a lady find a parking spot in Sacramento"

Could that have been a good thing if it wasn't involved... so that she could just plain be charged with manslaughter/murder and no chance of it being waived under some wishy washy "acting under religion" or something

FouxDaFaFa

Shown a photo of her children, she accused prosecutors of having "ripped apart" her family. "I did the best I could with what I knew," she said.

Yeah, what a tragedy for you.

Not the one child you murdered and the other one you didn't succeed in killing.

Banbh, I clicked through to the book ready to accept that maybe these parents had completely misinterpreted it or something but holy fcuk.
According to people who have read the whole thing, it advocates beating babies with a switch until they are "totally broken".

A seven-month-old boy had, upon failing to get his way, stiffened clenched his fists, bared his toothless gums and called down damnation on the whole place. At a time like that, the angry expression on a baby's face can resemble that of one instigating a riot. The young mother, wanting to do the right thing, stood there in helpless consternation, apologetically shrugged her shoulders and said, "What can I do?" My incredulous nine-year-old whipped back, "Switch him." The mother responded, "I can't, he's too little." With the wisdom of a veteran who had been on the little end of the switch, my daughter answered, "If he is old enough to pitch a fit, he is old enough to be spanked.

magicbastarder

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Did i seriously just read that "religion had been deemed not relevant to the criminal case."

How the hell did they come to that conclusion..

i assume they meant that the case being taken against the woman would be blind to any religious arguments. i.e. that they would not be usable as a defence.

SebBerkovich

magicbastarder wrote: »

i assume they meant that the case being taken against the woman would be blind to any religious arguments. i.e. that they would not be usable as a defence.

I wonder if religion was taken into account if the book publishers or other members of the sect she was a member of would be somehow liable.

To me it seems a bit of a let off and misses the bigger picture. She did something horrible probably from a combination of being a horrible person as well as being given legitimacy by her religion.

Banbh

http://theweek.com/article/index/221196/to-train-up-a-child-the-book-thats-leading-parents-to-kill
I see that other children have died as a result of parents using this man's methods. He's a 'pastor' by the way and the book has sold thousands of copies.

Brian Shanahan

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Yeah, what a tragedy for you.

Not the one child you murdered and the other one you didn't succeed in killing.

Banbh, I clicked through to the book ready to accept that maybe these parents had completely misinterpreted it or something but holy fcuk.
According to people who have read the whole thing, it advocates beating babies with a switch until they are "totally broken".

Frankly, in a moral world, the writer of that book would be done for genocide. Because that is no less than what they are advocating. Switching a nine-month old baby is nothing short of attempted murder.

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/new-book-by-fr-tony-flannery-not-available-in-veritas-bookshops-1.1525618

Speaking after the launch of his book last night Fr Flannery said all he knew of the matter is that he had been contacted by people who visited Veritas bookshops in Dublin and Cork. They were told Veritas “will not be stocking it” (the book) and that this was “ a senior management’ decision.”

Andrewf20

Came across this joke of an article. (6 reasons to not send your daughter to college).

http://www.fixthefamily.com/blog/6-reasons-to-not-send-your-daughter-to-college

In there it says...

"The Church teaches that husbands and wives are of equal dignity, but with different roles."

and then goes on to say....

"Christian marriage by definition does place her in a submissive role to her husband, but no one forces anyone to marry anyone."



Warning: Your eyeballs will grow hair with frustration after reading this. Although some of the comments deserve a place on the funny side of religon thread.

PopePalpatine

B-b-but the man loves the woman! That makes their inequality OK!

FouxDaFaFa

#3: She will not learn to be a wife or mother.

*eyetwitch*

Nodin

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

*eyetwitch*

*poke

*poke

wrote:

We are so fickle and forgetful. I thank God
that he is so patient with us. Mother Mary has shown us the power of
obedience and submission to authority as Fr. Paul Nicholson says.
http://youtu.be/FIkKTfToMJE
Do you remember when she did what St. Joseph
said, to flee to Egypt? Aren’t we all glad that she obeyed her
husband? Otherwise, if she would have asked to leave in the morning or
think it was a ridiculous idea, and strongly and loudly voiced a selfish
opinion, it would have been disastrous for all of us! There is so much
grace in obedience and then, understanding of the way God thinks instead of
man. She was an example of patience even under the most unjust punishment
of Our Lord. She was silent, forgiving, loving, and docile because she
knew the outcome. She gives us an example of how to carry ourselves, how to speak, how to dress as similar as we can to her.

http://www.fixthefamily.com/citabelles/missy-s-happy-notes-mary-my-mother-and-yours-in-heaven

Andrewf20

All this stuff reminds me of...

robindch

Not only are church candles hazardous, but, frankly, holy water is crap for you too:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/study-holy-water-harmful-health/story?id=20257722

ABC News wrote:

Despite its purported cleansing properties, holy water could actually be more harmful than healing, according to a new Austrian study on "holy" springs. Researchers at the Institute of Hygiene and Applied Immunology at the Medical University of Vienna tested water from 21 springs in Austria and 18 fonts in Vienna and found samples contained up to 62 million bacteria per milliliter of water, none of it safe to drink.

Tests indicated 86 percent of the holy water, commonly used in baptism ceremonies and to wet congregants' lips, was infected with common bacteria found in fecal matter such as E. coli, enterococci and Campylobacter, which can lead to diarrhea, cramping, abdominal pain, and fever. Nitrates, commonly found in fertilizer from farms, were also identified in the water. If ingested, water containing nitrates over the maximum contaminant level could cause serious illness, especially in infants younger than 6 months, which could lead to death if untreated, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

"We need to warn people against drinking from these sources," said Dr Alexander Kirschner, study researcher and microbiologist at the Medical University of Vienna. The study, published in the Journal of Water and Health, also found that all church and hospital chapel fonts contained bacteria -- the busier the church, the higher the bacterial count. "This may represent a problem that has hitherto been underestimated, especially in hospitals, since there a lot of people with weakened immune systems there," Kirschner said.

There have been advances made for the more hygienic use of holy water, including the invention of a holy water dispenser a few years ago by an Italian priest, while studies have also indicated that adding salt (at recommended levels of 20 percent) can help disinfect the water. But Kirschner cautions that salt is not a reliable way to prevent infection and instead recommends priests regularly change the holy water in churches and erect signs to inform congregants about the dangers as well as of the history of the holy springs.

Sulla Felix

I wonder if there's a doctrinal restriction on using other liquids? Holy hand sanitizer might be the next big thing.

recedite

Have you lot not heard of transubstantiation?
It may look and smell like a faecal coliform bacterium, but when its in the holy water it's actually the body of Christ.
Similarly, tests that seem to show the presence of carcinogenic particles in holy air are actually detecting the presence of the holy spirit in the ether.

robindch

Ultra-orthodox jews believe that sins can can be symbolically transferred to a chicken by swinging the clucking bird three times around your head. But what message is God sending when He causes most of the chickens to die of heatstroke before the ceremony?



http://www.nydailynews.com/birds-die-annual-ritual-slaughter-article-1.1454098

NY Daily News wrote:

Thousands of chickens — condemned to die in a Jewish redemption ritual — instead died in Wednesday's unseasonable heat, causing the annual rites to be put on ice in some Brooklyn neighborhoods, the Daily News has learned. The soon-to-be-slaughtered poultry perished at the hands of a higher power when the mercury hit the mid-90s — hours before they could be used in Kapparot, an Orthodox tradition wherein Jews symbolically transfer their sins to the bird before sacrificing it.

"We lost about 2,000 chickens because of the heat," said a man who works in Skwere Mosdos, a Borough Park shul. "It's a big loss," added the man who declined to give his name. Another person at the 45th St. establishment estimated the death toll at 800. The hot and muggy day caused a calamity for other Kapparot operations. "Due to weather condition, a lot of chickens died," according to an email sent by another yeshiva to its members. "Sorry 4 the inconvenient (sic)."

The yeshiva, Machzikai Hadas on 43rd St., charges $8.50 per chicken. It also posted a flyer advising the public about lack of poultry, but employees denied that anything was amiss. "No matter what faith you follow, we all believe in God," insisted employee Shia Porges, 31. "And that's why the chickens did not come to any harm because God takes care of everything in His own way."

A colleague, Chaim Singer,32, claimed that water and shade were provided for the ritual roosters, adding, "We make sure they're comfortable and well fed." Ultra-orthodox Jews use the chickens in a custom observed before Yom Kippur in which they're swung above the head three times in a symbolic transference of one's sins. They're then slaughtered and donated to the poor for a pre-fast meal.

Chickens are kept in stacked crates on the sidewalks throughout Hasidic neighborhoods, sometimes for hours or even days before the Day of Atonement, which begins Friday evening this year. Critics of the practice have long called it illegal animal cruelty that's not mandated in the Torah or Talmud. This week, they were crying foul even louder. "I am horrified, I am upset, but I am not surprised," said Rina Deych, 57, a member of the Alliance to End Chickens as Kaporos, which advocates the use of coins instead of chickens.

Karen Davis, president of their umbrella organization, United Poultry Concerns, said that over dozen birds are typically crammed together, often injured, weak and susceptible to harm in harsh weather conditions. In a small way, she said, succumbing to the heat was a blessing. "Their misery is so totally compounded that the best thing to happen to them under the circumstances is to die," said Davis. "They didn't have to suffer the further pain and indignity" of Kapparot.

Gordon

Although it's nice that they give chickens to the poor, in their minds, they're giving poor people chickens that contain their sins. That's a bit.. fowl..

Sarky

They're too chicken to man up and claim responsibility for their own sins. I've seen some crazy rituals in my time but this is a bit of ostrich of the imagination.

Seriously though, poor birds. Religion excuses all kinds of cruelty in its name.

PopePalpatine

Well, if they don't do this, who's to say they aren't playing chicken with their souls? :pac:

recedite

http://www.timesofisrael.com/california-halts-la-kapparot-on-yom-kippur-eve/

California regulators ordered two Orthodox Jewish groups in Los Angeles to stop performing the Yom Kippur ritual kapparot. The state’s Department of Food and Agriculture on Friday shut down kapparot at the Ohel Moshe synagogue and the Beit Aaron outreach organization. They were accused of operating unlicensed slaughterhouses...

That was in California. Can't see it being allowed in the EU either, for the same reasons. I think its time for the authorities in New York to cop-on.

Isn't Brooklyn also the place where the local Mayor was persuaded to let the Jewish community elders deal with a widespread child sexual abuse problem, instead of letting the Police handle it?

Sulla Felix

recedite wrote: »

http://www.timesofisrael.com/california-halts-la-kapparot-on-yom-kippur-eve/
That was in California. Can't see it being allowed in the EU either, for the same reasons. I think its time for the authorities in New York to cop-on.

Isn't Brooklyn also the place where the local Mayor was persuaded to let the Jewish community elders deal with a widespread child sexual abuse problem, instead of letting the Police handle it?

It's also the one that refuses to ban Metzitzah B'Peh otherwise known as "letting some old guy suck the freshly cut penis of a newborn".

kylith

Sulla Felix wrote: »

It's also the one that refuses to ban Metzitzah B'Peh otherwise known as "letting some old guy suck the freshly cut penis of a newborn".

Didn't at least three infants die of herpes contracted that way recently?

robindch

"Dutch school diaries with ‘Satanic’ peace logo destroyed after protest"

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/school-diaries-with-satanic-peace-logo-destroyed-after-protest-1.1530914

More here and here. The schools' webpage is here.

Irish Times wrote:

A group of secondary schools in the ultra-conservative Dutch Bible Belt has destroyed 3,000 back-to-school diaries specially printed for teenage pupils, because parents complained that the internationally recognised peace logo on the cover may have “Satanic” origins. The cover features six students wearing T-shirts, one with the circular logo designed in 1958 by artist Gerald Holtom for the philosopher Bertrand Russell and his Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

The Pieter Zandt Schools Organisation, which runs the orthodox Protestant secondary schools in the towns of Kampen, Staphorst and Urk, confirmed the diaries had been recalled and destroyed after complaints from parents about the symbol’s “occult links”. “The parents’ conviction that the symbol was unacceptable was so strong that I knew a rigorous approach was the only solution,” said the schools group chief executive, Johan van Puten, who added that the diaries would cost at least €15,000 to replace. Some parents even warned that the logo was “one of the signs of the anti-Christ”.

Mr Van Puten said that having listened to the parents, he had “googled” the logo and found it was indeed similar to the “Nero Cross”, named after the Roman emperor who is reputed to have had the Apostle Peter crucified, head downwards – hence the design. Mystical powers had also been attributed to the symbol by the 19th-century American writer and Freemason Albert Pike in his book Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, reprinted in 2002.

Having found that the Nero Cross had apparently been associated since Roman times with the “persecution, torture and killing of Christians”, and more recently with occultism, Mr Van Puten said he had concluded that there might be a basis to the complaints. Although he realised that “wasting paper is a poor example to our pupils, and for that reason it hurts me”, destroying the diaries was “the lesser of two evils”, he wrote in a letter circulated to parents. The diary cover, said Mr Van Puten, has been designed by some of the schools’ students – and he was confident the logo had been used innocently, in line with its peaceful meaning.

Sarky

And I used to think the Dutch were such a level-headed bunch