Lets have a trial

Victor

Angry Banana wrote:

I bagsy being a heckler from the gallery.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=335

Burning Eclipse

Being honest my law experience is limited to tort and contract, and even that knowledge is limited but this is by far the most interesting thread boards has thrown my way... Well done Karlito! Also subscribed:)

Rylands v Fletcher FTW

Thirdfox

Burning Eclipse wrote:

"Rylands v Fletcher FTW"

No way...

Miller v. Jackson
Donoghue v. Stevenson
R v. Dudley & Stevens! (death penalty commuted to 6 months imprisonment... classic!)

Burning Eclipse

I don't particularly like Rylands V Fletcher but my tort exam is tuesday so that's where it came from.

R v. Dudley & Stevens sounds fascinating... Sorry for the poor cabin boy tho

Thirdfox

Ah he was near death anyway! (joking! I do not condone eating humans whatsoever...although if I was in the same situation...) What I can't believe was the sailors turned themselves in after getting rescued and then the trial judge gives them a sermon about the conduct of upstanding British sailors

Also the third guy who didn't kill but eat the guy got off scott free!

TheVan

Oooh this is exciting....I can see myself being the counsel's version of Denning....screw the law, I'm doing what I want! (that's of course if I get the position!)

NUTLEY BOY

Make it a criminal trial.....higher standard of proof.......better proofs ( sorry, bigger and better lies )required on the evidence front........if it gets boring we can adjourn for a few days, send the jury home and have piles of legal argument.

Oh yes, we can then have a separate set of contempt proceedings against the journos who report the VOIR DIRE verbatim and publish it under a picture of Jordan bursting out of her bikini.......

Better still, have several defendants all indicted on the same charge(s) based on the same facts and who all elect to run "cut throat" defences against each other.

hullaballoo

There will (hopefully) be a few trials, so this one will probably stick with the Univershill bit. It all depends on the logistics, so we're keeping an open mind.

Blowfish

Great idea, but since I have no legal experience i'd be delighted with a bit part, but failing that i'd enjoy just being able to watch all of the fun:)

[edit] I'm not sure about a trial being about Univershill though, if the juror's are regulars on boards, they will hate spam/shills, so in reality if they are found not guilty, it will just give other companys the idea that it's ok. I'm sure no-one here wants that, so there is only ever going to be one outcome to the trial.

maidhc

Univershill is a fantastic idea. Mind you that they have shilled boards isn't much of an achievement considering they managed to do shill the EU Parliament a few years ago.

The European law was shepherded through the European Parliament by MEP Janelly Fourtou, wife of Jean-Rene Fourtou who is boss of media giant Vivendi Universal.

(from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3545839.stm)

They will *obviously* be found guilty, but DeVore might get some interesting ideas from the whole thing.

DeVore

Actually I´m interested in the legal issue of *are* they guilty of anything in Irish law. The problem with the trial idea is that we will have perfect knowledge to an extent since we will have invented the "crime" (either that, or we follow an ongoing trial in detail but that has a PILE of issues that most of you will already be aware of).

I think (pending discussion with Hull) that we will use the debating system we have here with some modifications, this allows a controlled area of the trial and some private area for the prosecution and defense to prepare and a public area for open discussion by all of us. Should more then meet our needs.

DeV.

maidhc

DeVore wrote:

Actually I´m interested in the legal issue of *are* they guilty of anything in Irish law.

The Criminal Damage Act 1991 might be an interesting place to start. Also a few interesting torts exist (creative arguments relating to trespass to goods/property, interference with economic relations anyone?). Maybe even straightforward breach of contract with the charter being the contract in this situation.

Definately scope for arguing both sides, although I suspect a jury of boardsies will not be the most impartial!

Terry

i would like to take part, but i'm going to jail next friday. (really)
as for the person on the first page who wants to be the defendant, this person is not to be trusted. they said they are from "Tallagh". anyone from Tallaght would know the correct spelling, so this person has obviously lied before the trial has even begun.

hada

Having done quite a bit of research on the topic, how do people feel about conducting a mock trial on the threat of DNA Databasing? There are widespread fears about its possible abuse, not to mention contervening Articles 8 and 14 of the ECHR. Hell, in my own opinion, there is no doubt that we could see a barage of challenges brought under our own constitution's equality guarantee .

It is quite a topical issue as a database will be introduced quite soon (legislation will be completed by this year) and one could base such a mock trial on cases in other jurisdictions where such challenges have been brought ( R v. Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police ex parte. LS for example)

On the plus side, most law students or even people generally interested in legal issues, will have an understanding of constitutional law, so the topic could be quite open to debate.

Just my 2c, feel free to dismiss

ps. any chance of a court of appeals being established??

hullaballoo

DeVore wrote:

Actually I´m interested in the legal issue of *are* they guilty of anything in Irish law. The problem with the trial idea is that we will have perfect knowledge to an extent since we will have invented the "crime" (either that, or we follow an ongoing trial in detail but that has a PILE of issues that most of you will already be aware of).

I think (pending discussion with Hull) that we will use the debating system we have here with some modifications, this allows a controlled area of the trial and some private area for the prosecution and defense to prepare and a public area for open discussion by all of us. Should more then meet our needs.

DeV.

Well, I would hope that if we run with the Univershill thing, that we don't actually have to make up any facts, but run it along the lines of what actually happened.

That way we can give a fairly good idea as to what may actually happen. Our team of lawyers will look at the facts and will see what remedies they think they can come up with. If there isn't anything, then we'll be able to let you know, but I have a few ideas myself, and I know that some people have expressed interest in working for the plaintiff (ie boards.ie).

Edit: hada - all in good time. As I've said before, I hope that there will be more than one mock trial run, and if there is then there will be time to consider all sorts of cases.

On the issue of the court of appeals, we've already suggested that there should be a Supreme Court, at the head of which besty CJ should sit.

hada

hullaballoo wrote:

Edit: hada - all in good time. As I've said before, I hope that there will be more than one mock trial run, and if there is then there will be time to consider all sorts of cases.

On the issue of the court of appeals, we've already suggested that there should be a Supreme Court, at the head of which besty CJ should sit.

Brilliant. Really looking forward to this whole concept. I can really see this developing into something great, with eventual promotions of board users to the "judiciary" etc etc.

Victor

hullaballoo wrote:

The Judge
I will preside as the judge of the case. In line with Mr Michael McDowell's recent pronouncement, I will be referred to for the purposes of the trial as Mr Justice hullaballoo, save for when I am present where I will be referred to as Judge hullaballoo.

And known as "Jayo", down the pub.

Libero

I'm intrigued as to how this mock trial, whether civil or criminal, will handle examination of witnesses.

The examination of vive voce evidence is crucial to the courtroom dynamic. As opposed to evidence by deposition, it allows for testimony to be immediately probed and subjected to all sorts of scrutiny. And it happens on the spot, with one question immediately followed by another. Having a good sharp barrister can make all the difference in this part of the trial, and it normally provides the most entertainment to onlookers.

Short of setting up a sub-thread with "chat"-like features, I'm not sure how one can do this online. Any suggestions?

shoutman

I'm sure it could be setup through MIRC...

maidhc

Libero wrote:

The examination of vive voce evidence is crucial to the courtroom dynamic. As opposed to evidence by deposition, it allows for testimony to be immediately probed and subjected to all sorts of scrutiny.

The facts in Univershill would not require any evidence as such. The facts are as given, and not really in dispute, and unless the shills or particular experts offer their evidence there isn't much need to cross examine anyone.

Libero

maidhc wrote:

The facts in Univershill would not require any evidence as such. The facts are as given, and not really in dispute, and unless the shills or particular experts offer their evidence there isn't much need to cross examine anyone.

Yes, but that would make the whole thing closer to a moot court than a mock trial. As the first post and many others on this thread show, at least some posters are expecting a criminal mock trial, or at least a civil trial with witnesses, cross-examination, etc.

Much as I have fond memories of moot court competitions, a mock trial is more, well, rock n' roll.

Still, I appreciate the logistical difficulties. A moot court, with legal arguments based on established and accepted facts may be the best way to start off.

I would just caution against anything too abstract. While arguing the true meaning of, say, recklessness at an appellate level may be of great interest to law students and graduates, it would probably be a turn-off to the general users of the site. A constitutional issue may be best, giving great scope for back and forth legal and principled argument.

I'll take a look at Univershill but in the meantime, I'd love to see a reinaction of what lead to today's Supreme Court decision - that strict liability in the offence of unlawful carnal knowledge is unconstitutional, i.e. does the Constitution mandate "honest belief" as a possible defence?

maidhc

Libero wrote:

Yes, but that would make the whole thing closer to a moot court than a mock trial......

True! It will be interesting to hear the declarations of the powers that be.

Giblet

Section 7B, lines 13-22.

hullaballoo

Right, I'm just back from meeting DeV in town today. We thrashed all of the issues out, and the trial is going to go ahead!

It's going to operate via a number of sub fora to this forum and all of this will be made clear shortly, but some will be private, some will be read open, and some will be public.

We're not going to go near the Univershill case for the time being. It will be a criminal case and I think Victor will be doing the fact-setting.

Those who have PM'd me showing their interest can expect to hear from me shortly as to the positions they're going to hold. Also, because it will be a criminal case, there will be a jury picked. Again, it will be as random as I can make it, without dragging people from other parts of boards in kicking and screaming.

Crash

Just say you're prejudiced against all races...

Eru

Im glad, Univershill had no appeal for me.

Victor

hullaballoo wrote:

It will be a criminal case and I think Victor will be doing the fact-setting.

Can you give me a dramatis personae?

hullaballoo

hullaballoo wrote:

Right, I'm just back from meeting DeV in town today. We thrashed all of the issues out, and the trial is going to go ahead!

It's going to operate via a number of sub fora to this forum and all of this will be made clear shortly, but some will be private, some will be read open, and some will be public.

We're not going to go near the Univershill case for the time being. It will be a criminal case and I think Victor will be doing the fact-setting.

Those who have PM'd me showing their interest can expect to hear from me shortly as to the positions they're going to hold. Also, because it will be a criminal case, there will be a jury picked. Again, it will be as random as I can make it, without dragging people from other parts of boards in kicking and screaming.

Will there be gallows?

hullaballoo

Myth wrote:

Will there be gallows?

Sentencing will take place after the trial.

Crash

Damn, if only i knew enough about law I could be involved - Juror?