Lets have a trial

Eru

I have an idea that might be a bit of fun or if nothing else, may teach us a thing or two. Lets have a case, DPP, Garda, defence and judge and maybe even a mini jury.

If a mod could be judge (Yes Hull Im looking at you) and another could come up with a case. Then pick prosecution and defence. PM the case to 1 person as the Garda and I will provide a precis to the DPP and the defence.

Then I could give evidence and the DPP could question me followed by the defence. Important note: No editing of posts!

I would like to be defence if possible (for a change) but we would need a Garda.

Who knows, it might be good.

Exon

Do I get to hit young lads as the Garda? (Sorry, I couldn't resist )

Nah, i'm open for this, i'm not sure what i'd have to do exactly? (as the Garda)

Victor

Should there be a "story writer" to stop people just making up evidence?

Thirdfox

Could I be a juror??? I'll probably never be in one in real life

Here I'd get to act stupid and pester the judge for more info/clarification on these points of law all the time (oops, revealing my game plan...)

I'd probably shout "He's guilty!" at the beginning of the trial too...

Our man in Havana

I wish to offer my services as a juror too.

bus77

Could I be the defendant? I'm from Tallagh.

Eru

Victor wrote:

Should there be a "story writer" to stop people just making up evidence?

Yes, preferable a mod for fairness.

bus77 wrote:

Could I be the defendant? I'm from Tallagh.

No harm in having a defendent I suppose.

Jurers,
remember, you wont know the actual story. Either the prosecution or defence could be telling porkies.

TheVan

I volunteer for the position of hotshot legal genius, making his mark on the legal world! *










* not a joke

hullaballoo

Firstly, I think this is a fantastic idea - it has put me in a good mood following the exam I so completely failed this morning.

Secondly, the first thing that hit me was how much this will take logistically, but I am very willing to organise it. However, I'm mid-exams at the moment, so my input will be limited for the time being.

This post is going to constitute some of the administrative issues that will come before the pre-trial, for which I will set a date in due course and at which I will set a date for the full hearing. Here is a rundown of the positions and how to apply.

The Judge
I will preside as the judge of the case. In line with Mr Michael McDowell's recent pronouncement, I will be referred to for the purposes of the trial as Mr Justice hullaballoo, save for when I am present where I will be referred to as Judge hullaballoo.

The Jury
The jury will be selected at random from the boards.ie members list. The one caveat is that I will attempt only to select those who are usually active (I don't want to be wasting my time PM'ing dormant accounts and waiting for them to reply). There will be 12 jurors.

The Defence
I will accept applications for the defence team via PM. Please include details of studies, qualifications and any other information you deem relevant. I will select the three most suitable candidates.

The Prosecution (The DPP)
I will accept applications for the prosecution team via PM. Please include details of studies, qualifications and any other information you deem relevant. I will select the three most suitable candidates.

The Defendants
I will accept applications for the defendants via PM. Serious (for want of a better word) applications will be considered and the defendants will be announced in due course. There will be three defendants.

The Victim
I wil accept applications for the victim via PM (it's getting repetitive to me too). There will be one victim, probably a girl.

The Witnesses
Witnesses may apply for the position to me via PM. There will be Gardaí, so real-life Gardaí may apply if they wish, but so may non-Gardaí apply for the position of Garda. There will be four Garda witnesses, and four non-Garda witnesses, totalling eight witnesses.

The Case
I will not write the facts of the case, but I will look after the writing of it. I will ask DeVore to do the honours, and then I will sub-edit, or appoint a sub-editor. You may apply for the position of fact-writer, if DeVore does not wish to construct a facts scenario or sub-editor if he does. I will let you know in due course what the status of my request is. I am aiming for some sort of convoluted rape case, but it may be something else.

The Courtroom
Further to requesting that DeVore write the facts of the case, I will request a private sub-forum to this forum. If granted, certain people will be using this forum at certain times, for example, the trial will take place in there, and the jury will have the forum to themselves during their deliberation

Hopefully, there will be further trials over the course of time, and we can establish a standing order and a panel of judges/barristers/solicitors etc.

In the case of an appeal, the Supreme Court will sit. In such a case, new judges will be appointed, with besty, CJ at their helm.

That's all I can think of for now, but I will look into the details and make sure this is organised properly. Thanks Karlitosway!

Sounds good Hull.

Thirdfox

Not random jury selection! I'll never be picked now! Can prosecution/defence object to the selected jurors?

*edit: Don't you mean Judge Hull?

Our man in Havana

Excellent Hull, My apologies Mr. Justice Hull.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

DPP, Garda, defence and judge and maybe even a mini jury.

###COUGHS### Virtual Executioner ####COUGHS#### (nominates self)

Also available for Drunken Bitter DPP solicitor, who throws whiskey bottle (empty) at defendant when he comes for his first meeting. But turns out to be a wiley legal fox in the courtroom.

Also available for court reporter "I is de fastest at the typing"

Great idea, would love to see how this pans out!! Oh, i could also be court artist!! Sketching the skirmishes as they unfold!

besty

This sounds like a great idea, not just because Besty C.J. sounds so good but because it's a practical application of all facets of the law in a practical scenario. I'll consult with Hullaballoo J. about the practicalities of this trial and we will post back our ideas on the format.

Again, great idea Karlitosway

Eru

Hmmm, Thinking further about this, I think the story teller would need to set guidelines for both sides and more importantly, allow for the possibility that the person could be found guilty or innocent. The jury needs to have top watch the trial genuinely and not simple presume guilt or innocence.

Thirdfox

Well don't juries presume innocent until proven guilty?

Easygainer

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Hmmm, Thinking further about this, I think the story teller would need to set guidelines for both sides and more importantly, allow for the possibility that the person could be found guilty or innocent. The jury needs to have top watch the trial genuinely and not simple presume guilt or innocence.

You have to almost completely remove the pure factual element and leave it to legal arguments on points which have subtle arguments either way. For example, one I argued was whether or not gay marriage legislation would be constitutional. It depends on the definition of marriage etc and the locus standi of the plaintiff etc.

Reducing it to a factual argument is pointless. In a criminal case, it would have to be an ambiguous area like insanity or evidential issues.

rondeco

bus77 wrote:

Could I be the defendant? I'm from Tallagh.

Do you have a suit?:p

Thirdfox

Easygainer: but that would mean no jurors - boo!

TheVan

Well the way I see it is that if the case rested on mainly evidenciary grounds, then it would be pointless in a context such as this. One side could definitively say "he raped her, QED".

It also doesnt allow for much lateral legal thinking.

I'd be in favour of something such as adverse possession for example (note that this is just an example, I wouldn’t actually want an adverse possession case…I hate the topic!).
It is usually quite clear that someone has either been in possession for 12 years or not. The interesting bit comes when people claim that adverse possession as a concept breaches their rights under the ECHR.

This kind of idea is the kind I think would work best

Easygainer

TheVan wrote:

Well the way I see it is that if the case rested on mainly evidenciary grounds, then it would be pointless in a context such as this. One side could definitively say "he raped her, QED".

It also doesnt allow for much lateral legal thinking.

I'd be in favour of something such as adverse possession for example (note that this is just an example, I wouldn’t actually want an adverse possession case…I hate the topic!).
It is usually quite clear that someone has either been in possession for 12 years or not. The interesting bit comes when people claim that adverse possession as a concept breaches their rights under the ECHR.

This kind of idea is the kind I think would work best

Admin cases lend themselves best to these types of cases but it's an optional subject; contract is perfect too, but boring to watch; constitutional is in between - can be good to watch but hard to find good topics.

Ideally you want to have 3 or 4 arguable grounds such as locus standi, some sort of time limitation in case (when the clock starts ticking for something, maybe an eq ground is available...), the subtance of the case and, if admin is involved, the jurisdiction to review which is a very arguable area.

Easygainer

rondeco wrote:

Do you have a suit?:p

Of couse he does. We all know the joke, what does a knacker in a suit say...

Hagar

This could be interesting. Good idea Karlito.

padser

TheVan wrote:

Well the way I see it is that if the case rested on mainly evidenciary grounds, then it would be pointless in a context such as this. One side could definitively say "he raped her, QED".

It also doesnt allow for much lateral legal thinking.

I'd be in favour of something such as adverse possession for example (note that this is just an example, I wouldn’t actually want an adverse possession case…I hate the topic!).
It is usually quite clear that someone has either been in possession for 12 years or not. The interesting bit comes when people claim that adverse possession as a concept breaches their rights under the ECHR.

This kind of idea is the kind I think would work best

Speaking of adverse possession id like to propose a case where G squatts on someones land from 1984 to 1997. Lets bring it the high court, and have the Court of appeal reverse the decision. Then let the house of lords affirm the decision. Lets appeal it to the ECHR who overturn the house of lords. Now lets appeal that the grand chamber.

For anyone whos wondering, i havnt just written a case note on PYE.......

Victor

Easygainer wrote:

Of couse he does.

But is it his?

ferdi

we did this in school back in the day, i was the judge, i gave him the chair.

Trojan911

Hagar wrote:

This could be interesting. Good idea Karlito.

Yes, nice one. I will observe from the public gallery....


TJ911...

Faith

Wow, this sounds like fun! I always have an interesting time when I follow links from Judge hullaballoo's sig.

*Cough*I'm available for jury duty*Cough*

besty

Stickied

DeVore

Could we run a mock trial of Univershill ?? (see my sig-link). I'm still considering taking them to court but I'm not sure how or for what, I'm not sure if the law has something I could sue them for.

DeV.

DeVore

by the way, I think this is an utterly brilliant idea but I'm on holidays until Monday so I wont be around until then really. I'll liase with Hull by PM before and after that.

DeV.

Hagar

DeVore wrote:

Could we run a mock trial of Univershill ?? (see my sig-link). I'm still considering taking them to court but I'm not sure how or for what, I'm not sure if the law has something I could sue them for.

DeV.

Unless the trial takes place in a totally private forum you might tip them off regards strategies etc.

Thirdfox

To be fair they would have an army of lawyers... probably would know all the tricks in the book!

Red corner: 200 over-paid/underworked lawyers

Blue corner: 2/3 law students, police officiers, lawyers(?) and law-related people.

It'd be a bloodbath!

hullaballoo

DeVore wrote:

Could we run a mock trial of Univershill ?? (see my sig-link). I'm still considering taking them to court but I'm not sure how or for what, I'm not sure if the law has something I could sue them for.

DeV.

I'll get going on that as soon as possible. It's the kind of irony I crave. I have a few ideas and will get together with those who are helping out, and we'll get the facts into the proper format.

Thanks to those who have applied for positions so far. There are still a fair few positions to be filled, so if you're interested in getting involved at all, just drop me a PM.

Black Swan

Why make something up? That's fiction. Why not try Bubbles?

hullaballoo

We don't particularly want to end up fighting a legal battle ourselves. No, that's the kind of irony I despise.

dermot_sheehan

I'm up for being counsel for either side.

dermot_sheehan

<snip>

Unlike criminal law, in civil law there is a civil tort of conspiracy, it's an an agreement to do something unlawful. For example Trade Unions were originally sued for conspiracy for agreeing to commit a tort (interference with employees contractual obligations). They were given immunity by the Trade Union act 1908 if they follow certain procedures (have a ballot etc).

According to R v. Parnell interestingly to engage in a civil conspiracy is also a crime, i.e. to conspire to commit a tort is a criminal offence, this has been much criticised and I can't think of it ever being applied in recent times.

So to conclude, there is a tort of conspiracy. There is also the inchoate criminal offences of conspiracy, incitement or attempts. There however is no tort of incitement.

Thirdfox

Ah of course, I just saw conspiracy and thought of incitement... forgot that it's only criminal and not tort. Thanks for that info... didn't know conspiracy was a tort!

Parnell case was the land league and refusing to pay rent right? Surely nationalism/patriotism wouldn't allow the courts to carry any precedent from that case?

hullaballoo

Whoa guys, don't be talking about the case! You don't want to get held in contempt of court now do you!* I'd prefer if the people who get selected to run as cousel get together their arguments off their own bat.

If people want to get involved, they can PM me. I won't consider applications that are made in this thread. When you PM me, make sure to include credentials for the positions of counsel. Cheers!

*This is a joke. However, insofar as people may be in contempt of court in the future, so they will be held. Just to be real like.

Thirdfox

Jurors don't count as counsel right?

hullaballoo

Yeah, but you can't apply for juror, that's random selection.

Oh, and the other thing is that there may be no need for a jury if DeV's idea comes good.

Font22

padser wrote:

Speaking of adverse possession id like to propose a case where G squatts on someones land from 1984 to 1997. Lets bring it the high court, and have the Court of appeal reverse the decision. Then let the house of lords affirm the decision. Lets appeal it to the ECHR who overturn the house of lords. Now lets appeal that the grand chamber.

For anyone whos wondering, i havnt just written a case note on PYE.......

hehehehehe i've done half and have to finish it 2moro! bring on the good times!

Time Magazine

Best.Thread.Ever.

I bagsy being a heckler from the gallery.

Miss Fluff

This is such a fabulous idea!

Would be lovely to be randomly chosen as a juror

:rolleyes:

hullaballoo

Maybe you could be the defendant Miss Fluff. Then we could chain you up and flog you in public. But only if you don't get convicted. (See Miss Fluff's signature.)

Thirdfox

How hard are the spankings/floggings? Don't want to an R v. Brown now, do we?

Miss Fluff

hullaballoo wrote:

Maybe you could be the defendant Miss Fluff. Then we could chain you up and flog you in public. But only if you don't get convicted. (See Miss Fluff's signature.)

Or only if I don't get excited lol

besty

Miss Fluff wrote:

Or only if I don't get excited lol

I like where this is going

Giggidy giggidy

hullaballoo

Miss Fluff wrote:

Or only if I don't get excited lol

You can be my chamber assistant.

Edit: Oh good God, I'm spamming Legal Discussion. I'd better get my coat.

Thirdfox

"The Tempting of America: The Political Seduction of the Law" by Bork... just like Playboy of the Western World... full of promises but turns out to be a damp squib.