Poor Road Signage Pictures

MT

Are there any details of what this upgrade of signage on national routes will actually involve? Will it just be a long overdue maintenance job or a fundamental review of how signs are positioned, designed, etc.? However, this again highlights the folly of having an agency in charge of only one section of the road network. The NRA can only focus on N route signage when it’s the R route stuff that’s often the worst by far.


I came across this article on how tourists find the experience of navigating Ireland’s (presumably just the RoI) road network. They’ve pictured a fingerpost that’s already been reviewed on this thread.

mackerski

What would worry me if they're planning an overhaul of the signage is that they'll just spend a whack of money breaking signs that are already correct. As an example of this, see the M50, whose exit fork signs used to be uniform blue. Many of them have now gained green patches that go completely against the standards. And we paid them to do it...

Dermot

MT

More on at-the-junction signage:

Pic: Another problem with fingers on a single post is that each sign can be bent or broke off by someone swinging on it. Again, this problem is solved with plates on at least two posts – example from up here.


Pic: In urban areas in the Republic finger posts seem to be preferred in every situation over the plate variety. Presumably the logic behind this is that with only one pole there’s less intrusion into pedestrian space. However, this still leaves signs vulnerable to the two major faults with finger posts: they can be twisted or even pulled over. Indeed, these are more likely to happen with lots of people around. So the signs used in pedestrian areas in Ireland seem to be of a type least resistant to vandalism.

Again, the Australians seem to have come up with an answer. This involves a cantilevered post that solves all three problems – maximum pedestrian space, plates can’t be twisted and bolting to the ground ensures the whole structure can’t be pulled over by vandals. Another example, this time combined with traffic lights. Another cantilevered/traffic light combo.

Sadly, when an LA in the Republic attempted a similar feat of engineering to place at-the-junction signs on a cantilevered post the words cutting and edge didn’t come to mind. Unlike the cleverly designed Australian solution this looks like an ad hoc use of a post designed for advanced signage not fingers. I don’t know which is more bird brained, the engineer responsible or the feathered one perched on this bodge job. :rolleyes:


Pic: Another problem with fingerposts is the seemingly irresistible temptation to bolt on more and more fingers. This reaches a ridiculous point where any passing motorist is simply overwhelmed with excess information. There really needs to be some sort of limit on the total number of things – directions, tourist attractions and so on – that can be displayed on any one signage assembly.


Pic: This assembly’s half right. But why burden the motorist with an additional advanced direction sign alongside junction signs. An additional plate finger could have been added for the Corrib Gas Terminal. The other info could have been kept to an advanced sign further on.

The other reason advanced signage shouldn’t be placed at junctions is the confusion and inconsistency it creates. It helps if motorists become familiar with a regular system of signs – a bodge job like this, with an advance stack at a junction, needlessly breaks the pattern that drivers need to get to know.

This Scottish junction gets it right with advance signage prior to and plate fingers at the turn-off. Notice how there’s just one mention of B&B instead of the clutter of advertising fingers common in the Republic.

MT

…continued

Pic: Too much info, leaning, lacks durability. This type of assembly’s much better.


Pic: When they had neatly repaved this area couldn’t the rubbish that passes for signage have been updated too? Get rid of the clutter and put up clear plate signs on two posts. I can’t think of any redeveloped junction up here that hasn’t used the most up to date plate signage. Plate signage won’t end up twisted to point the wrong way.


Pic: It’s not only the amount of stuff signed but also the nature of separate fingers that adds to the sense of information overload. The lowermost pairs of fingers on this post could have been displayed as single plates with bi-directional arrows above. No need for the duplication.


Pic: A recurring problem in the Republic is one where even if there are too many signs to display authorities needlessly stick in another post to create more than one point of focus for the driver. This makes signage much harder to follow. This Australian junction (note the neat A4 patch) probably has too much info for a driver to absorb but at least it’s all part of the same assembly.

Of course, the Republic could cut down on all the information overload in one swoop if the illegal private advertising cluttering up junctions and fingerposts was removed. Tourist signs should be restricted to major attractions or generic (‘campsites’) signage.


Pic: And how many points of focus have been created here with all those advertising fingers. The plate signage here would be quite good if it weren’t for all the distracting clutter around it. Junction signage that’s easy to follow is clearly assembled and doesn’t overwhelm the motorist with excessive info. Again this requires a limit on tourist signage.


Pic: If there is call for tourist signage to be installed by itself then at least do it right and use plate fingers. Though I feel that given the readiness of locals in the Republic to use signposts as their own personal billboards separate tourist signage should be avoided – it only seems to encourage abuse of the system. It’ll soon be as bad as Greece!


Pic: A junction up here provides a more appropriate equivalent to the fingerpost and stop sign combined in a previous post. Although the signage at the NI junction isn’t in great nick it does get more of the basics of assembly right: traffic at the stop sign have a clear view of directions on the far verge and plates have been used so there can’t be any twisting. The ‘STOP’ has also been mounted on two posts to avoid rotation.


Pic: It’s so much easier to follow when done right. Unlike displaying far too many directions together on the one fingerpost, where some of the signs are partially obscured by those in the same plane. :rolleyes:


Pic: The font on older fingers is often completely illegible at anything more than five metres. The font size used on secondary signs in the UK is far easier to comprehend.

MT

…continued

Pic: I love the way, as is so often the case down there, that private advertising takes precedence over genuine direction signs on so many finger posts. Do people actually push the important LA signs further down the post to make way for their own?

Another example – funny how despite the careful use of solely Gaelic or bilingual signs by the authority the illegal B&B finger gets away without a single word of the first official language. A double offence, anyone? And why do tourists get the luxury of an English translation for the tourist office but not the walk signed beneath?! Even estate agents seem to have copped onto the usefulness of public signage too.


Pic: Restaurants take priority. As do cottages. And B&B’s.


Pic: Indeed, there is frequently a chaotic lack of vertical ordering of destination and tourism signage in the Republic – further example. In the UK destination takes priority over tourism thus providing a familiar layout that drivers can expect at junctions.

The tourism panels on this advanced stack should have been patched to reduce the number of arrows and the sign’s disjointed appearance. By using a patch for tourist info this UK stack has a much less cluttered layout. Australian example. A distorted pic of another UK stack with tourist patching. The Irish stack sign would have been easier to follow with just two arrows/panels and this patched layout.


Pic: While I can understand the reasons for using monolingual Gaelic signs in Gaeltachts to encourage those that live there to actually use the language, surely the same burden shouldn’t be placed on tourists. Most are simply spending part of their holiday in a Gaeltacht and haven’t made a lifelong commitment to live there and learn the language. So couldn’t a bilingual/English exception at least be made for tourism signage/crucial services? Welsh bilingual plates.

The Scottish often use monolingual Gaelic signs in the Highlands(not me) but that’s only because many names were never anglicised in the first place. Even in Gaelic speaking areas an English version is given, although it’s often reduced in size. And after all things like police stations could be vital for a tourist too.

However, Ireland should have copyrighted this famous phrase – seen here on the border with England.


Phew, I think I'll give my fingers a rest now...:p

murphaph

Some excellent pics there MT, I particularly like one you've taken of UK signage yourself in your area. It really highlights how ridiculous it is when our rule books are so similar yet one side of the border makes a constant balls of it and the other it's near perfect.

The website is experiencing some technical problems at the moment but hopefully will be resolved shortly. I'll lt you all know as soon as the thing goes live. Naturally, we can only put up pics of known locations with the current status known also-so we can't put up old pics of fingerposts unless someone can validate that they are still there etc. We can't afford to get things wrong when our campaign is about something so particular (and some might say anal!).

MT

I’m afraid none of the pics I’ve posted so far are my own, they’ve all been pulled off the web. The problem is I’ve no digital camera at the mo.

While I wouldn’t go as far to say NI does signage perfectly (there are plenty of mistakes up here too) the stuff across the border is often diabolical by comparison. But why is that? As you say the rule books are near identical so how unearth can there be such a difference on the ground? It’s baffling. While there are varying standards, most developed countries seem to make a reasonable fist of putting up traffic signs – leaving the Republic as a puzzling exception.

You guys are running one of the most high tech economies in Europe and yet can’t seem to figure out how to put up direction signs at a T junction.

Link: The picture on this web page makes the above point. The poorly arranged clutter that passes for signage at this junction is woefully thought out. What’s worse is that it all looks relatively recent. Two fingerposts posts have been placed directly in front of a reasonable looking tourist plate sign. It’s looks as if a sign has already been pulled off one of the posts as it supports nothing. Then of course, out of all the posts used in this cluttered assembly one is randomly given the ‘stripey’ treatment – what make’s it so special? Why the inconsistency – a shortage of paint?

And why couldn’t proper plate signage have been used with that tourist finger positioned on the far verge facing the minor road where it might be much more easily read?

The bodge job above increases my suspicion that fingerposts are just an aide for laziness. It’s possible to stick them in randomly without any real consideration for driver visibility. As some effort has to go into positioning all the posts for a plate assembly at a junction, more of that tiresome thing called thinking is required.

When, for example, will the muppets in LAs down there realise that signs at a T junction are often best placed facing the minor road – not off in a corner requiring a rubber neck to read? [See attached sketch.]

Pic*: An example from Enniskillen shows that sometimes it can be clearer to put signage for a turn-off in that corner where the priority and minor road intersect. But only signs for right/left turns – not those for traffic joining the priority road.

*I can confirm that the signs at this junction are still in place – so maybe you can make use of that photo, but again it’s not mine. It’s been taken on the A4 approaching the junction with the B80 – the advance stack.

But as down there these route numbers are almost unknown locally with people referring to the Dublin and Tempo roads respectively. As the A4 is the road to the M1/Belfast many baffled tourists are informed on asking for directions that ‘to get to Belfast you take the Dublin road.’ Only in Ireland!


Then there’s the half-right approach with plate signage for the priority road but easily twisted fingers for the minor road. Typically, private advertising comes top.

The website is experiencing some technical problems at the moment but hopefully will be resolved shortly.

So you’re running some sort of campaign for change then? Sounds good.

and some might say anal!).

The local authorities probably… But yeah, I can see how it could be perceived as a bit crankish. However, if it succeeds I wouldn’t worry about any minor stigma. After all, plenty of other countries have taken a detailed approach – why should something similar be seen as peculiar in the Republic?

From my own point of view, I’m not the anorak wearing, train-spotting type in the slightest. I just happened to take an interest in this problem after getting lost one time too many down there. And yet it has never happened up here, across the water or any of the times I’ve driven through France!

Danno

MT wrote:

Another signage offering via Google. Don't even ask me what websites these pics are connected to, I'm simply doing random searches.:o

Anywho, this selection of fingerposts would have been much more easily and durably displayed had a simple plate containing this info. been attached directly to the facing wall.

This method is always used up here whenever a nearby surface is available. It reduces clutter and cuts down on costs. It's a more visually appealing way of doing things and leaves fewer bits to be knocked or vandalised.

Again I’ll have to check the manual for the procedure concerning the lesser destinations of Johnstown and Abbeyleix. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done this way in the UK.

Although these signs from the UK are incorrect they at least give an example of mounting signs on nearby surfaces (the railing).

Those signs were put up because we had a protest about the big ugly signs the NRA wanted up in Durrow, Co. Laois. It is a back street in Durrow connecting the N77 to the N8.

MT

My problem isn't with the size of the signs, just the way they've been mounted. Instead of a fingerpost as they've used here, a plate with all these fingers on it could have been attached directly to the wall. It would have been the same size but even less obtrusive and much more robust - fingers on one post can be bent.

Indeed, it would have looked neater still had the two fingers in each direction been combined into one.

The UK is good at using nearby structures instead of posts for displaying signs. The logic seems to be that walls, lamp posts, etc are more robust and using them instead of posts reduces clutter. Birmingham example. This seems to be an area where the Republic falls down in particular - except some parts of Dublin.

Oh, ignore the Sabre photo I provided for comparison, it's been changed for some reason - to a fingerpost with lost on it appropriately!

MT

A minor but interesting – well, possibly only to me – signage development has occurred up here. Waterways Ireland have been putting in new piers etc. around Lough Erne in Fermanagh. There’s one that’s been done close to me, however, in the process they’ve managed to destroy the face of one of the DoE’s information signs and then put back a place name sign crookedly on its posts. Furthermore, they removed some signage but (unusual for up here) left the bare posts still sticking out of the ground.

Why is this interesting? Well WI is a cross border body created under the GFA and is effectively run by the Republic. Does this explain the bungled signage?

I like to think of this collection of damaged/crooked signs as a little piece of the south up here!! It all stands in stark contrast to the immaculately mounted Roads Service signage standing nearby. Even the WI notice of work used the flimsy aluminium sheeting used throughout the Republic. Accordingly, it had been bent by someone bumping into it.

Sheesh, never mind a cross border waterways body, what about a cross border body for road signs – and this time we get to run it .

mackerski

Please make it stop, it's horrible!

Today was my first time to drive on the newly opened Ashbourne Bypass section. It was about 18:30, and the road was empty, which shows you how well they've signposted it from the old N2 but anyhow... What do I discover but yet another example of signposting worst-practice à la M50 SE. Yet again we have a classic D2 junction with no lane drop. Yet again the manual mandates a simple fork sign. Yet again some tool specs the wrong sign and a collection of other tools failed to spot it.

To have spotted this waste of taxpayers' money today, just as failure to keep left becomes a point-earning offence, would be funny if it weren't so tragic. At least the guards are guaranteed a revenue stream at this spot for quite a while.

The painted out sign, BTW, is for Dublin and somewhere else that I can't recall. You've also got to wonder, given that the left lane is indicated as a lane drop, why it bears the number N2.

Dermot

MT

It's remarkable, Dermot, how they can get such basic thing wrong repeatedly and not spot it. I can't think of any other country that has made such an elementary error. With the possible exception of the UK where the gantry signage is often the pits - indeed, I've a suspicion this blunder may well have been copied from somewhere in Britain.

Even the lunatic Saddam Hussein managed to preside over the installation of proper gantry signage. Pity he wasn't so hot on human rights.

By the way, someone's posted a near identical picture over on that sabre sight - so word is spreading. But will it ever reach the ivory tower the boffins at the NRA appear to inhabit?

Alun

mackerski wrote:

Please make it stop, it's horrible!

Today was my first time to drive on the newly opened Ashbourne Bypass section. It was about 18:30, and the road was empty, which shows you how well they've signposted it from the old N2 but anyhow... What do I discover but yet another example of signposting worst-practice à la M50 SE. Yet again we have a classic D2 junction with no lane drop. Yet again the manual mandates a simple fork sign. Yet again some tool specs the wrong sign and a collection of other tools failed to spot it.

To have spotted this waste of taxpayers' money today, just as failure to keep left becomes a point-earning offence, would be funny if it weren't so tragic. At least the guards are guaranteed a revenue stream at this spot for quite a while.

The painted out sign, BTW, is for Dublin and somewhere else that I can't recall. You've also got to wonder, given that the left lane is indicated as a lane drop, why it bears the number N2.

Dermot

What a bunch of useless idiots! Have you tried contacting anyone directly at the NRA about this? I've sent them a couple of emails about the M50 SE signing fiasco, but got no reply of course. I'd love to actually speak to a real live person there and ask them what the hell they think they're playing at with these signs.

MT

Some more signage mishaps from a look around the web:

Pic: Don’t the people responsible for this gem realise that shrubs tend to grow up and out. How will you read the wording then? Why not stick to the standard TSM sign which is much clearer – and cheaper no doubt!

Pic: The problem with overly decorative signs is that they’re often difficult to read at speed. Again, the standard TSM version is much clearer.

Pic: Nicely done town sign and tourist info panel combination.

Pic: It’s as well this place isn’t called straight.

Pic: The lesser spotted striped variety. How do LAs decide which signs get the stripey treatment – it all seems so random! Was there a shortage of black and white paint in Tourmakeady?

Pic: When you go to all the bother of building a neat little flower pot thing around a sign why not finish it off properly and mount it at the top of its posts?

Pic: Posted a full version of this pic previously but its relevant here. There’s little point in putting up a town sign if it’s almost entirely obscured by fingers you then stick in front of it!

Pic: Why couldn’t they have removed one of the Ballycastle posts and combined the speed limit and town sign to reduce clutter? This LA in the UK made the effort to combine the two. Another example. Even neater Scottish solution. Pity they didn’t remove the older version. Similar idea.

Pic: Undergrowth should be cut to stop info being obscured. Attractive sign all the same though. Better here.

mackerski

MT wrote:

By the way, someone's posted a near identical picture over on that sabre sight - so word is spreading. But will it ever reach the ivory tower the boffins at the NRA appear to inhabit?

You'd think it might, given that they solicited public comment on the M50 incarnation of these daft signs. Plenty of posters here made their feelings known then. Fat lot of good it did.

Dermot

MT

Yeah, I too made an extensive and fairly detailed submission to the NRA site on the failings of the SE M50 signage. Alas, it seems to have come to nought. Must have been a PR excercise. :mad:

Even worse, these signs have apparently now been put up on the N25 in Cork. So the NRA seems determined to go against international standards and install misleading gantries right across the Republic. If I were you I'd be demanding a tax rebate!

daymobrew

Alun wrote:

I've sent them a couple of emails about the M50 SE signing fiasco, but got no reply of course. I'd love to actually speak to a real live person there and ask them what the hell they think they're playing at with these signs.

I had the same silence when I asked about advance signs for the toll bridge (to tell people which lanes to use and how much the tolls are).

Phone their Press Office. I remember getting a detailed letter from them when I wrote (a letter) asking about the NTR contract.

Pfungstadter

Speaking about the shambles of this 'new style' overhead gantry, did anyone see the last overhead gantry before you get to the M50 on the N2, It's been changed!!!!!!! The lane drop arrowin lane 1 for the M50 Northbound was changed to point to the left, (and the arrow is out of proportion with the other two completely), when the point down arrow was correct as this lane leaves the
N2 for the M50. Who is this Muppet doing this to our Roads . And what was wrong with the Gantry Style used on the M1, it's perfact.

MT

Pfungstadter wrote:

The lane drop arrowin lane 1 for the M50 Northbound was changed to point to the left, (and the arrow is out of proportion with the other two completely), when the point down arrow was correct as this lane leaves the
N2 for the M50.

More shocking incompetence. How do they do it, putting up logical road signs is hardly rocket science, so why do the NRA seem to get it wrong time after time? Given that the Roads Service up here manages to do a pretty reasonable job, I think it’s time the NRA swallowed its pride and asked for some advice. At the moment it appears they haven’t a notion.

I must say I don’t like the use of an arrow pointing to the bottom left corner for indicating an approaching slip road – that is when it’s actually a slip road that’s coming up and not a lane drop. Instead, an arrow pointing to the top left corner provides for greater visual differentiation with the straight-on arrows: example. How is it the NRA can do it like this here but no where else? Do they make it up as they go along?

In addition the bottom left arrows can then be used for another purpose – signifying a lane ending and merging into an other as is Dutch practise.

icdg

Because that sign, unlike most of the others, follows the rules! These new ones are just confusing - they actually encourage the already bad enough practice on the M50 of driving constantly in the overtaking lane (is the M50 the only motorway in Europe with more traffic in the overtaking lane than Lane 1?). I know the NRA haven't much practice with gantries (the only one I knew of, for years, is a former one at the Lucan exit of the N4, removed circa 1998 when the outbound carrigeway was widened to three lanes).

Incidently, take a look at the EIS for the M50 widening and you'll see an example of even more mad gantry signs, that use yellow-on-blue text for N-road numbers. Thankfully these ones aren't real (yet). They also show a symbol for the Port Tunnel...

Pfungstadter

That sign is at the end of the N7 going eastbound/An Lár:D mainline just before the M50, doubt this style will be used. This new Gobsheen style seems to be taking over. It wouldn't look so bad if they used it correctly or maybe I should say Logically.

People who design signs should look at them as if they were never on that road before, ever or even in the country and ask themselves, Are these a load of pogswallop. And will I get lost or slow down allot (on a main road) cos I can't understand them.

daymobrew

Pfungstadter wrote:

People who design signs should look at them as if they were never on that road before, ever or even in the country and ask themselves, Are these a load of pogswallop. And will I get lost or slow down a lot (on a main road) cos I can't understand them.

BINGO! Perfect description of what signs are for.
This is the logic I've tried with Fingal County Council a few times. Signs aren't for those who know where they are going.

I think you or MT should write to or phone NRA to discuss this. They might be reasonable when you actually speak to them. They might have an explanation.
I've had good conversations with Fingal and Dublin City Council Roads departments as I lobbied to get some potholes filled. Some get the results I want.

MT

Pfungstadter wrote:

People who design signs should look at them as if they were never on that road before, ever or even in the country and ask themselves, Are these a load of pogswallop. And will I get lost or slow down allot (on a main road) cos I can't understand them.

Like Daymo, I couldn't agree more. That sort of thinking should be fundamental to any mission statement the NRA might have for rolling out new signage under their recently announced 60 million euro plan.

Murphaph is working on a website to cover the problems with signage in the Republic and this would be a good channel to lobby the NRA/local authorities through. No doubt Murphaph will produce something with information and visual examples of how to do it right. Then any future comments to the authorities could carry a link to the site to reinforce your point.

I think, Daymo, as many people as possible need to make their dissatisfaction with the current approach known to the NRA. I'll do so but the more voices the more pressure - not to mention a more comprehensive range of ideas.

Victor

Who owns the photos on sabre.

Stop stalking me!

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Who owns the photos on sabre.

Stop stalking me!

I own a fair few of 'em but by no means all the irish ones.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

I own a fair few of 'em but by no means all the irish ones.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=6
I think this might be the London & North Western Station, the locosexuals will know.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=7
You might explain the Irish font and úrus and sébhus for the lads. And that its Dublin 12.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=8
The red zone indicates the price band. Bye-laws and maps here: http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/getting_around/by_car/parking/park_legally_in_dublin_city.asp

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=9
Note the "At any time" to be sure to be sure. You can still stop your truck for 30 minutes for loading.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=10
Note cycle lanes that go no where.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=11
Note this is New Wapping Street, referrring to Wapping, not New Wapping. The original Wapping Street was parallel and about 100m west until the railway stations and yards were built.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=12
Note this fancy building is surrounded by utter deriliction

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=14
Of course the weight limit, on a 1845 bridge, is frequently ignored. Cars are enough to shake the bridge.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=15
Mayor Street has a chequered history. Built in the 18th century on reclaimed land, it originally stretched from what is now Amiens Street (then The Strand, literally a beach, now several km upstream) to what is now East Wall Road (then East Wall) the then limit or the reclaimed land.

When the railway yards were built, the east end was chopped off and became a Cul de Sac. It was also split in the centre thereby forming Upper Mayor Street to the East and Lower Mayor Street to the west (the convention is Dublin streets with "Lower" in their name are closer to O'Connell Bridge). The actual altitude of Upper Mayor Street is lower than Lower Mayor Street (don't ask!!!)

Also, at the west end, the original Georges Dock was extended to form the Inner Dock (also known as Excise Dock) with a short canal connecting the two. This further split the street until a bridge was added, but to pile injury upon injury, this part of the street was then made private (most likely to do with the contents of the excise warehouses).

When the Docks were redeveloped, the street remained private (under the Dublin Docklands Development Authority www.ddda.ie) and was renamed "Georges Dock".

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=19
The bridges are listed (legally protected), but could do with safety impovements and a clean.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=270&pos=16
Note original cobbles on street and mostly original wall, but "new" footpath. Signage details here http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/getting_around/orbital_routes/

murphaph

Good post Victor. Your PM about that section of what appears to be Mayor Street actually being George's Dock and private at that was most interesting. I had noticed those odd imperial (presumably) speed limits and cheapo clamping signs before-they make sense now!

I'd be interested in getting to see spme of those maps, can any old skin walk in and look at them or do you need a secret handshake?

Hotblack Desiato

murphaph wrote:

I had noticed those odd imperial (presumably) speed limits and cheapo clamping signs before-they make sense now!

Presumably those speed limit signs have no legal force? Does the DDDA have the power to set a speed limit? And I'm pretty certain that even before the metric changeover, a 10mph limit has no legal force.

I'm sick of idiots insulting the intelligence of drivers by putting up silly 5 and 10mph signs (used to be very common at roadworks but thankfully seems to be all but eradicated now.) Clearly they don't expect that limit to be obeyed, so why not just put up a SLOW sign?

If they really really want a 30km/h limit I'm sure they can get one, but they'll have to make a case for it.

Also - the 30km/h signs on O'Connell Street - I doubt they have any legal force either (yet.)

I have another couple of favourite examples of bizarre speed signage, will try to get pictures soon

murphaph

Cheers Eoin,
Bad signage abounds, we must make inroads at it! Interestingly I recently wrote to Mr Michael Lorigan, director of transportation at Fingal Co Co. He didn't reply but I also contacted Joan Burton TD about the same issue and she contacted him, he replied to her stating he had seen my submissions and so on. Charming eh? We pay these guys wages and they can't even be arsed responding to plebians like us.

MT

Interestingly, I came across one of the Republic's old style cast iron finger posts up here - in someone's garden. I was coming over the border through Belcoo (N16/A4) and happened to spot a complete fingerpost with one direction for Dublin/Baile atha cliath plonked as a feature right in the middle of a garden. Question is, how did they come by it? Was it replaced and so acquired legitimately or is this a blatant case of theft?

Are tourists getting lost near Dublin when the signpost they should be able to rely on is really hundreds of miles away beside a rock pool and surrounded by gnomes!!? There's even a PSNI station and then a Gardai one with half a mile.