Waterford North Quays

Squidvicious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592388#Comment_121592388

I think that the ultimate plan is only 1 lane each way for ordinary traffic on the bridge with the other lane for buses and I think that there's a similar plan for the dual carriageway. If both lanes are restored, I think that will be temporary.

Waterford Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

Valhalla90

The sight is attractive. It’s home to the new train station, new bridge straight into the city centre. It’s a SDZ so planning permission is more secure and safe from serial objectors. The site is perfect for high density development. Waterford badly needs a new hotel of scale, site also caters for this. Let’s hope harcourt come back with something bold, tall and interesting.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607167#Comment_121607167

Reduce roads to one lane, sure everything will be grand then.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612382#Comment_121612382

Well in fairness how do you expect them to do the construction? I’m sure you be still complaining if the project never went ahead. It’s temporary!

decies

Just reading in the business post about the resurgence again of physical retail experience now while a lot of it is Dublin based , regarding north quays development I will go to my grave thinking regarding a retail changer if you build it they will come . That ship has well sailed now just wondering was that aspect really going to happen in the first place . Anyway bring on the new bridge .

bamayang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121607167#Comment_121607167

Is the plan that there will be car-driving traffic on the new bridge? I thought it was only going to be bus/tram type public transport on it.

Aquos76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121616056#Comment_121616056

You are correct, the previous poster is referring to the new proposed layout for Rice Bridge

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612529#Comment_121612529

Read the full post. Where did I say I had a problem with the construction and the resulting temp road changes?

I commented on a post referencing the Waterford Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy. Which has more reducing roads to one lane. This reducing roads to one lane is starting to be a one trick pony. It is not solving anything, just making things hard for people.

Squidvicious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121616269#Comment_121616269

Yes, exactly right. I appreciate that my reference to "the bridge" may have been a bit confusing.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121615216#Comment_121615216

I agree with you. If you go to any place with a decent retail offering then it is booming. The places with rubbish offerings are not doing well. Waterford City council looked around at their failed retail strategy in the city and decided that retail wasn't viable on the North Quays. What reason will the average Waterford person have to go over there now frequently other than a museum which they'll visit once every two years.

A travesty that they gave up on retail over there. An own goal that the city will feel for decades to come.

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618885#Comment_121618885

An extra 5,000 people living and working in the city centre is exactly what the city needs...

If we can't find retailers to take up empty units in City Square and Ferrybank what makes you think that it will be easy to fill even more empty units on the NQs...

Concentrate on the empty units we have before building more empty retail units

Valhalla90

I feel until we understand what the issues are with City Square and its vacancy the city centre should come first. Why can’t they attract the big names? Aldi is not very exciting as its newest offering. On a positive note Waterford city centre is lucky the Ferrybank shopping centre never took off. Imagine H&M,Zara,M&S all over there with free parking, the city centre would be beyond fixing at that stage and zero rates going to Waterford. Main goal now should be to fill City Square with the big international names and watch the city recover from them coming.

azimuth17

AFAIK the planning on Ferrybank was never tested at ABP. I think its planning also may be expired. In that case anyone opening anything there will hav eto apply for planning and will certainly attrcat appeals. The centre was never tested at ABP. two previous applications were and were refused. there were objections from New Ross and Carrick Town councils. It is likely that restriction son what might be sold in Ferrybank will confine the offerings to grocery with limited other comparison goods. There is a current appeal to ABP pending over what Decathlon can selll at Butlerstown Retail Park.

On City Square, I understand that some major retailers were very interested with the previous US owners but prospective tenants wanted huge rent rebates and fit out costs. The US owners cut and ran as they have done with many shopping and retail parks. MAybe Dublin is booming but thats not the story in most provincial locations. Holiday in Ireland this year shpwed me that. MAybe places are doing better than us,. Is it an income thing?

It would be great to get City Square and Arundel Square filled with decent retail.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618885#Comment_121618885

Well said

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618885#Comment_121618885

Even look closer to home,

Penny's, Shaw's and JD Sports seem to do very well and they are 3 well designed modern stores.

curmudgeonly

We suffered from Classic development inertia since the Saudis put their spoke in!

No one was prepared to jump into Waterford City because the North Quays would potentially be the new trading centre, so we had no movement of any size for nearly 10 years, now this has been put to bed so the only game is the old city Centre.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628886#Comment_121628886

Yep now we have the worst of both worlds . Still have to support the business in the city centre or it’s only going to get worse .

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618947#Comment_121618947

The shops in the city centre are not fit for purpose and it is not an attractive location for shops. A new purpose built, state of the art retail centre where people are sheltered from the elements with modern offices, restaurants, hotels, train station and housing nearby is where retailers would to want to set up. Not some mouldy tiny box of shop in the city centre.

Ferrybank has been plagued with legal issues so don't use that as an example. They can't even open a supermarket in there! God help Waterford if it ever gets a foothold because it will just suck money from the City.

The North Quays could have had plenty of retail AND housing. It didn't have to be either or.

People that don't see how bad retail is in Waterford are in complete denial.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620800#Comment_121620800

Exactly. Do retail right and it will do well. Trying to do retail right in Waterford City centre is near impossible. Its just not attractive to retailers. That's what people don't get.

The North Quays would have been unbelievably attractive and retailers would have been lining up to setup in there.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628886#Comment_121628886

Wrong. The old city centre is not the "only" game. There is no game anymore. The game is over.

The only game was the North Quays and now the retailers will overlook Waterford like they always have.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648438#Comment_121648438

Great start to the New Year. You espouse such certainty that you should trade on the stock exchange. Debenham's were a big operator and they did not overlook us? Market forces which are plaguing retail all ove r the western world must have some impact. There is not a person on this forum who does not see the difficulties, myself included. They are severe, but I refuse to partake in your despair. We have had too much of that and the "nothin here boy" brigade.

Office market now in turmoil in Dublin and other larger cities. The closure of a string of restaurants in Cork, one of the wealthiest urban areas in the country, must be telling us something.Places with a very strong tourist draw (which we never had despite the buses going to The Glass ) like Galway and Cork are doing OK at retail. We are only catching up in the tourism business as recent good publicity suggests. None of us can say what the North Quays will bring until Harcourt Developments submit their proposals, but at least one large hotel is in the mix.

curmudgeonly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648438#Comment_121648438

Retail will always exist in some form, it is in a period of transition for now definitely, it will improve simply because what is there at the moment is so poor demand will improve it on its own.

What you suffer from on the other hand needs intervention.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648929#Comment_121648929

Waterford needed something revolutionary to fix it's retail issues and be a genuine draw for the South East.

The North Quays could have provided this and drawn people from Wexford, Tipperary and Kilkenny. People who never come here and will continue to not come here. We would need a swathe of big names to even appear on their radar and that is simply not going to happen now.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652579#Comment_121652579

Its been poor for so long so and demand is not fixing the issue. This is because people living in the vicinity around Waterford simply head to Cork, Limerick and Dublin for their shopping. This will not change.

The North Quays could have pulled these people towards the city, to spend their money here rather than elsewhere. Now there will be nothing strong enough to cause the kind of pull needed for that.

Whats the need for the insult just for wanting the best for my City?

Anyway please explain to me how the North Quays will draw people to the city from Kilkenny, Tipperary and Wexford.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121655973#Comment_121655973

I agree, if you build the right retail offering, people will come. Anyone that has travelled to Dundrum or Mahon point will see how busy they are.

The NQs is kinda out of town which means access from Tipp, KK and Wexford would be very easy and with a new transport hub there it would make it an ideal destination for the dubs on the weekends.

Whether or not we then have a population or not to maintain it is anything thing.

Locating an SETU business school (or some school that would have 3k students, and 500 staff), research hub, start up type set up would go a long way in helping that. Chances of this are unfortunately zero though.

No matter what any of us think, retail won't be a large offering in the NQs. Hopefully as the tide of retail turns we can do something meaningful with Michael St.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656058#Comment_121656058

I tink if you had built it would have worked. Getting people to commit the required money in the current climate is very difficult. How old is Mahon Point ? How old is Dundrum ? Those who were lucky to get a big centre built before the past financial crash were encouraged by banks to rent stuff for give away prices. Athlone SC and McDonagh junction among them. We had MichaelStreet ready to go which would have filled the same void as teh economy improved, but geniuses in the council of trade unions objected to the planning.

Population of our city has increased. Economy has improved. Demand is there, but? City Square had client for new unit but they wanted a killer sweetheart rent deal and fit out costs. Even the cost of building a hotel bedroom is astronomical. I wish I knew the answer. Its more complicated than "build it and they will come" in my opinion anyway!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656297#Comment_121656297

Hard to disagree there, the big issue now is the cost of everything. I'd imagine somewhat of an issue here is, there isn't enough footfall for the major retail, but if we want major retail footfall would increase dramatically.

The lack of a standalone Uni is also a big issue. Take Limerick and Galway as examples. Both cities have near 30k 3rd level students between UL, TUS and Mary I Limerick and UG and ATU in Galway.

Many of whom remain there after their studies to continue working. We have 10k approx in SETU Waterford, which has to play a part.

Unless we find some cash cow king, I dare not mention the arab lads from the NQs then it's hard to see anything come to fruition and annoyingly we get one shot at the NQs or Michael St and two sites I really hope we don't look back on in 30 years and say, "what were we thinking"

914

As for Michael St and the council of trade Unions that was just shocking at the time and recently saw one of the ring leaders from the council of trade unions who put a stop to Michael St posting on Facebook complaining about the state of Michael St now. You couldn't make it up!

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656754#Comment_121656754

Destined for Student accomodation now. That's the level of ambition in the city.

I come on then trying to big us up, saying we should be aiming for more and people think I'm mad.

Also, I never said it was simple but the current miniscule level of retail planned for the North Quays is hard to stomach. Might as well not have any retail over there at all.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656754#Comment_121656754

What da eff is ‘the council of trade unions’……?