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Waterford Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy

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  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    Badly needed, Ferrybank has been a car dominated hellhole for far too long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Valhalla90


    2 lanes reduced to one along the already congested Ferrybank carriageway. Good luck with that one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,413 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Metropolitan area? Ok



  • Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭Waterford26


    Jeeeez noooooo



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Not driving everywhere for everything will be a big culture shock for many in the city, but particularly those from the surrounding rural areas.

    A regular bus route from the Dunmore Road area out the ring road to WIT and the industrial estate would shift hundreds and potentially thousands of cars off the roads every morning.

    Having a secondary school serving the Dunmore Road area would do likewise.

    Pleased to see a park and ride mooted - makes total sense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭new92


    A good city is a well connected city. Would be a welcome change imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Could never understand why there is not a bus route from the Dunmore road to the Cork road area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Why is transport in and around the city such a concern to the government? They refuse point blank to give things like a university, fairly funded health care and realise their promise of airport expansion funding etc etc. But how you move from a to b in the city is of concern to them! Bloody joke. Waterford is not even that congested. Just some places need some changes and bottle necks removed. Removing the toll on the bypass and a second road bridge down river should be the starting point in any logical plan. But of course, this is the government and its treatment of Waterford, logical does not come into it. Removing the toll on the bypass would take a lot of cars out of the city at peek times. You know, use what we have better first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    id actually agree with some of this, the new bridge either shouldnt have been tolled at all or publicly tolled, i understand cost of construction and maintenance of such is off the walls, but i have a major problem with the privatisation of such, and pure wealth extraction of critically needed infrastructure, we urgently need to create a public infrastructure bank to part fund such needs, this is common practice around the world, and is known to work reasonably well to..... we cant keep taxing the sh1t out of people for these needs, particularly the labour force, its just not going to work!

    .....transport is a critical public need, so it must be a critical part of public policy, therefore it must be a part of government... but yes, the failures at other levels, as mentioned by yourself, are starting to truly show now, and is sadly and unfortunately starting to collapse now, including previous transport polices. we ve been promoting the use and need of the private car for decades now, and its failures are now severe, but we have convinced ourselves that a shift back to public transport will work, but theres clearly going to be serious failures with this, modern society has been designed around the car, shifting back will be extremely difficult, probably impossible for many.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    “but we have convinced ourselves that a shift back to public transport will work, but theres clearly going to be serious failures with this, modern society has been designed around the car, shifting back will be extremely difficult, probably impossible for many”

    Yeah, I agree with you here. Always found this thinking that you can just get ride of cars and all will be well as problematic. Things like reducing the bridge from two lanes to one, sure it will be grand public transport will take over. It is a fantasy, it will cause huge problems. Most of the cars going over the bridge are through traffic, public transport is not going to deal with these kinds of journeys. Fund the removal of through traffic from the city first. Simple logic would tell you that removing the toll on the bypass and having another road bridge down river would take a huge amount of cars out of the centre of the city. Then we can look at reducing lanes on the bridge etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Squidvicious


    Yes, I agree with your assessment, a large amount of fantasy here. This country has been built around the car for decades and you can't just build a few bus lanes and cycle lanes and expect that to end. To make this any way viable, you would need a massive increase in the provision of buses but I cannot see this happening. How many buses would we need to replace car journeys?

    Another point is in relation to the cycle lanes. I would guess that the percentage of overall journeys made by bike must be a fraction of 1% of total journeys. Yet the plan hopes to increase bike journeys five fold. So even this pie in the sky plan doesn't expect the public to use bicycles on any meaningful level.

    Before anyone says it, yes, I'm a very negative voice, yes, it would be good if we could reduce car journeys. However, I simply can't see any realistic way of doing that and turning the bridge into a one lane each way job is insanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    The population of the city is expected to increase by 30% between now and 2040. So the National Transport Authority are right to be planning ahead, and there is far too much reliance on cars in Waterford as things stand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    such public polices are missing a key ingredient, the holistic view, states seem to seriously struggle with this, we must understanding as much as possible why people drive, the fact that we have very dispersed populations, compared to other countries, means people must drive, in order to survive. forcing people into alternatives such as public transport simply wont work for many of these people, as these options simply arent available in many areas, or what is available, just simply isnt viable, it would mean adding considerable time, to an already over subscribed timetable. its critical that 'offsets' are put in place along side such polices, noting that many parts of these polices are critically needed, and are actually really good. we need to offer alternatives to people, in regards giving back some of their time, particularly if they are forced to change due to these new polices and approaches, we should also be including the reduction of the working week, without a reduction in pay and conditions. people are sometimes forced to drive due to these facts, i.e. in order to save time, as the alternatives, if they even exist, are just too time consuming, we cant keep just pushing this sh1t onto people, they ll eventually just crack! alternatives such as working from home, need to be fully supported, in conjunction with these polices.....

    we have the bloody ideas, we ve even tried some of them during covid, and some even worked, and worked well!

    the only issue with increasing road infrastructure, generally means, increased road traffic, no easy solution there!

    again, i understand the reasoning for tolling, but i truly have a major issue with it for pure profiteering... but the cynic in us all can just see these measures are simply trying to force people over the toll, and thats just gonna p1ss people off even more, and rightfully so, people simply cant take anymore, they simply dont have the money to do so!



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    Are people always so dramatic here? The point of this plan is not to remove cars entirely, nobody ever mentioned anything about removing cars completely. The point of this plan is to redistribute space on our roads to give people viable alternatives to taking the car.

    For example I live in Ferrybank, currently to get to town I can walk 35 minutes, risk taking a bike on the ferrybank motorway and getting knocked down by a driver on their phone, or I can take the car. With this plan I'll still be able to take the car it'll just make it less appealing to do so, and make the other options such as cycling or public transport more appealing by equally distributing the space on our roads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    but again, for some, there simply isnt a viable alternative, and theres no future guarantees in place for such, many simply will be forced to change, which will more than likely increase their costs of living!

    i appreciate such plans, but they always seem to be very lacking, there doesnt ever seem to be holistic thinking occurring along side them, in conjunction with.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    If there is no viable alternative you can still drive your car, this plan doesn't stop you from doing that. It just means people who can and want to leave the car behind now have that option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    but again, viability has multiple meanings, the 'alternatives' in many cases would mean an increase in costs, and not just financial costs, but actual time costs. i.e. the alternatives in many cases means more time out of peoples already stretched timetables, we cant keep just giving these folks the big f you!



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    Not necessarily, Waterford City is so small most places are a 15 minute cycle from the centre if the right infrastructure was in place. That's not exactly a large time investment especially when you factor in the congestion we have at the moment. Plus if we get as many people as possible out of cars and into buses and bikes it will free up road space and lower congestion for those who actually do need to use their cars like the elderly and disabled making their trips faster and easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...but are all journey makers living and working within 15 mins? and cycling in irish weather, in the middle of winter, carrying the kids, everyone's belongings, and possible the shopping to, would, i suspect, become and bit too much after a while!

    oh i truly understand the potential and intended consequences, but what about the unintended ones, as mentioned?



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭new92


    If you don't own a car, for whatever reason, the service as it stands is not good enough. I challenged myself to use only PT for a week. It was hell but mostly because of wait times. If you cycle across town, the roads aren't good enough, a nightmare.

    We want to fix this. This isn't optional, this is the future of any European city worth its salt.

    Cars are not space friendly, not clean, not cheap and not for cities. I love my car but there is a realisation that, in the context of city living, they have no future.

    A park and ride system would solve a lot for visitors and finally we could reclaim the quays.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    agree, but where are ideas like this facilitated within this plan?



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    Enough journey makers are living within 15 minutes of a cycle and bus ride to make a difference to congestion and car use in the city. We just need to expand the bus service and make it reliable and frequent enough and make cycling infrastructure safe and easy enough to do this. As new92 said we can't keep going the way we're going because its not working and will only lead to more congestion. Even building a new general traffic bridge at the tower hotel will only ease congestion for a short amount of time before the population grows, further car use is encouraged by the new infrastructure, and congestion returns again.

    There are actually a few good ideas facilitated in the plan. The park and ride in Newrath would be excellent along with the bus up and down the rockshire road which would service it. It also allows for further park and rides in other parts of the city after reviewing the success of the one in Newrath first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭GandhiwasfromBallyfermot


    This is the park and ride option specified in the plan. I think it would be great. It also mentions using Tramore Bus Station as a parking location and expanding the tramore bus service to every 10 minutes to function as a semi park and ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...but again, what about those that dont live within 15 minutes of the city, what about those that cant or wont changeover to these alternatives, what about families that are currently commuting together, because that is, and may only be the only option available to do so?

    ...will all new public services, service areas that are currently not serviced, and will they match or improve current travel times, by current travel methods, i.e. the private car?

    again, yes theres loads of great ideas in this plan, as you ve very well pointed out, but what about, the what about.......

    again, yes our current approach must change, its simply not sustainable, but have we addressed as many potential negatives as we can, before its implementation, or are we also going to try to address them during its implementation, baring in mind, we ll never be able to fully address all issues, but we cant just keep ignoring them, by doing so, it significantly increases the likelihood of the overall plan in failing!

    park and rides are a great idea, it would also be great to see them free at the point of use, just like some cities have already implemented....



  • Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Oscar Madison


    This plan totally revolves around getting more car users to use the toll bridge.

    With so many travelling from Wexford, Kilkenny, Carlow & Tipperary to Waterford it will be a bonanza for them!

    I hope with so many new bus routes there will be drivers to drive them! Shortages in that industry also!



  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Valhalla90


    Be better money spent to actually move the train station instead of talking endlessly about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    That’s true, believe that the population increase could be as high as 50%. And yes, got to plan alright. However, in Waterford I would argue that there is too much through traffic also.

    Point is still valid though. Plan for all aspects of population growth. Not just status quo maintaining aspects. Waterford needs a full university, like for like funding for health care, a full IDA regional director etc etc. Not just, give them bus lanes, while Micheál Martin is sending €200 million to UCC while WIT is still waiting over 10 years for an Engineering building.

    Post edited by BBM77 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,404 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    absolutely, we can all see it, and its unsustainable, you cant keep screwing over the workforce, they will eventually bite back!

    yup, you cant blame people for leaving these sectors, or simply just not entering them at all....



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