Waterford North Quays

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244376#Comment_122244376

You are obviously not familiar with the site. The "car park" site is mostly the old Frank Cassin wharf which is a large concrete and tarmac area. It is suitable almost as is, for car park use immediately. It is the prime site on the North Quays being directly opposite Reginald's Tower. Developer is as conscious of this as anyone else. Your 5-10 years horizon is misplaced in my view but its a large site like the Dublin NQ anyway and will require sequential development anyway. I dont understand why some posters want everything done now, altogether, in one go, immediately. Getting things started is the difficult bit, after that it will develop its own momentum.

spaceCreated

Pity to have car parks there but at the same time if you want to draw in people from the surrounding area it makes sense for them to not have to cross the bridge to park… if only we had some shops for them to actually spend money in 😂

Flow Motion

Hey didnt ya notice we have a huge offering of Charity Shops, Hairdressers/Barbers, Phone Shops and Nail Bars. Top of the range stuff there eh???🤔

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122246466#Comment_122246466

The usual, followed by the usual gibberish, the running dowwn of your own place.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122246589#Comment_122246589

The usual, followed by the usual gibberish. The running down of your own place.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122242003#Comment_122242003

Yep but these will be surface carparks and not multi story (multi story would make no sense and you build it up to have to knock it down again), I guess they could be well dressed with trees and shrubs but then when development arrives we'd probably complain about cutting down trees removing shrubs etc so it's probably best just to be a plain old surface car park.

spaceCreated

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122246589#Comment_122246589

If I see this joke one more time I think my eyes are going to bleed

spaceCreated

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122246915#Comment_122246915

A small joke given the lack of retail proposed in the new development compared to what was on the cards not that long ago, no need to get worked up over it. More than likely the influx of people in to the centre of town should help attract and keep more retail units.

Dexpat

North Quays.png

I've had a look at the plans and I think the renderings look good (see attached). The view from the city side is impressive and the hotel at one end and offices at the other end look clean, complement each other and bookend the site well. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I think they are skewed by a disappointment that what people wanted to see is not practical to deliver.

In terms of design, the apartments and hotel were never going to be in an iconic style unique to Waterford, that's the reality. I think the whole project will deliver that iconic factor. The setting with the old city on one side and the new buildings on the other, joined by the new bridge, will do that. In time this will become an instantly recognisable view of Waterford City.

I understand somewhat the frustration with the carparking in the sections earmarked for other phases. As has been started by others, if this phase is a success then they are easily removed or incorporated into subsequent plans. In the mean time there will be no need for anyone driving to the city centre from the north to to come across Rice bridge. This should reduce congestion on the south quays and might be a catalyst for a further reduction of carparking spaces on the south quay.

I don't get the complaints that the plan deviates from the SDZ designation in terms of making use of the river setting. There is a promenade that runs the length of the site and the buildings are back from the river to allow for that. There is also a lot of greenery and relaxation space to enjoy the river.

Looking at the plans as well, each block has a number of retail units on the ground floor. This will allow for bars/restaurants convenience retail in time.

Ok the plans are not perfect, but for phase one, I'm happy that they are a good compromise and can give huge shot in the arm to the city. For people not willing to compromise based on the unavoidable constraints, then I'm sure disappointment will result. Later phases have scope for more height, iconic buildings etc. This has to be a success first though.

I don't have the time to or the inclination to debate back and forth about this, but I know there are different takes on it. Hopefully construction won't be too far off but I think the middle of next year to start, is realistic.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122258623#Comment_122258623

This is a very good post. While I have been a little deflated with the lack of something iconic, the current plans are beginning to grow on me.

I'm also hopefully phase 2 or 3 would have an iconic structure.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260355#Comment_122260355

doubt many will park on the north quays and use the new bridge to get to shops etc….especially in the winter months when the quays north or south are Baltic…..

muzakfan

Unfortunately I have said this before, I hoped against hope it wouldn't be so, but it's closer to reality now than ever before:

The North Quays or at least the largest rump of it is going to end up as large scale social housing. You can see the slow inevitable slide from commercial/retail to maybe some offices mixed use residential to mostly residential.

Who is realistically going to buy apartments in Waterford at scale in a scaled down to the point of failure development? The council will, that's who. What a shameful waste of opportunity.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261533#Comment_122261533

This may or may not happen, it will depend on a few factors. SETU and the airport.

If government are serious about Waterford and adequately fund SETU establishing Waterford as it's driver then this will lead to spin out companies, increased R&D.

If the government support the airport this will help with attracting FDI, office and finance jobs, a young well paid workforce.

Both the above could lead to wanting an attractive apartment over looking the Suit and City Quays.

Will the government deliver on the two points above? It's not looking likely!

Frisby have revised his plans for extra office space in the building on the crystal site so he must be confident or have companies lined up to full the office space as he never does something without reason.

You would also like to think Harcourt would be the same, they would have with market/economists and see the office block as viable.

If we all sit back and put our realistic caps on for one moment. In the current economic climate if we were to rip up Harcourts what would we genuinely see working there?

People might say a large retail development, I think that would actually be detrimental to the current city centre. McDonagh Junction has caused a similar issue in KK, people go to McDonagh Junction, shop eat and leave.

Large hotel, already in the plans. Most likely to be the biggest in Waterford (based on rooms).

Living space, already in the plans. Possibly to much initially but I don't envision all the apartment blocks being built in one go.

Offices, already in the plans. Working from home policies, how many office based jobs can we attract, hence one office building.

Large music venue, this would be great but again would depend on airport for large acts, not sure what the return on building such a building would be as how often would you have large sell out crowds.

SETU school, this would be a big advantage as it could mean having 2-3k people based there for the majority of the year

Maritime museum, we may well see this in future plans.

Anything else?

Flow Motion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261533#Comment_122261533

Agreed the WCCC will have to develop it coz nobody else seems bothered. The roads over in Ferrybank DC are a complete mess @ present. And have been that way since last August. Very little progress or a plan in returning it to a functioning entrance to the City. A really piecemeal effort TBH. At times its resembled a game of chess what with cones moving etc. Even more annoying given the fact other than a train station the bulk of the rest of the NQs site will be vacant for an extended period. Apparently Abbey Rd's gonna be closed for a couple of months which means a long detour for the 2,000+ ppl living out that way. Enough is enough. Tried contacting WCCC but no response. Only interested in circulating NQ's update newsletters every quarter. Absolute BS

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300957#Comment_122300957

There is constat large scale work in progress on the site regardless of what you say. Planning permission has been applied for. A silly post, which wants everything done now. Neither life or business is like that.

ArtVandelay76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122300957#Comment_122300957

It looks like they could have turned a lot more of the dual carriageway back to two lanes if they really wanted to but couldn't be bothered as it might inconvenience them slightly. The works at the block of council flats really slowing traffic down as well.

Valhalla90

The train station looks quite tall and it’s only two floors. The apartment blocks are going to look tall as the site is elevated compared to the south side. Planning should be granted end of next month.

Dum_Dum_2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301756#Comment_122301756

Why should it get planning permission when it runs contrary to the Development Plan?

Again I ask:
Point out exactly which part signifies a gateway?
If the River wasn't there what would be removed?
Help me find the landmark elements, I can't find any.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301802#Comment_122301802

I’m not a huge fan of elements of it either. But I like the scale of the apartments. They messed up with the hotel big time so I wouldn’t mind if changes were sought in regard to that. Totally against the car parks which I hope the council will not entertain and refuse.

Dum_Dum_2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301874#Comment_122301874

How about the developers get the landmark elements done first and move the flats onto the 'later on' pile? That's what you would do if you wanted to get everyone on board.

Valhalla90

Well there’s no landmark elements to start first with. But phase 2 & 3 need to be more iconic for sure.

Flow Motion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301366#Comment_122301366

Get off that high horse of yours buddy. Try commuting that side of town 2/3 times a day for past year. A year to fix/re-align a bit of road (one of the main arteries into the "city")?? Would not happen if it were on Dunmore Road suburbs. Keep dreaming of what's not gonna appear on the docks. The arrogance of youth or the keyboard warrior?

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302602#Comment_122302602

No one ever said it would be easy to do 200m Euro worth of infrastructure without upsetting people in Ferrybank.

Get a grip.

And it happened for months in Williamstown at the roundabout.

muzakfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301901#Comment_122301901

What "landmark elements". At least when the local Lyle Lanley was about he was selling a big doomed to failure dream. This is as tame and lacking in ambition as it gets.

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302602#Comment_122302602

If Dunmore road was going to have 200m of dev including the relocation of a train station, building of a bridge etc then yes it very much would have traffic delays, Major traffic delays.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301802#Comment_122301802

Just pure curiosity, what is your definition of a gateway?

Also what iconic structures would you put in place?

Finally how would you focus it more on the waterfront.

I'm honestly not being cheeky here, just curious as to what people would place there instead of the current plans, baring in mind we have yet to see what phase 2 and 3 might become so we'll keep it based on phase 1.

Asdfgh2020

just saw on Wlrfm site news of the new council CEO……a lad poached from kk council can’t recall his name but hardly ideal…..will he be able to rid himself of his waterford prejudices….would love to know how d’s guys are selected…..has the appearance of an old boys club……could this appointment be disastrous for the city and county and the NQ’s project..? Time will tell as usual

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

He's actually from Armagh and living in Clonmel if I am not mistaken and held the CEO position in KK council. I don't think there is any Waterford V KK in this regard and any talk of that is nonsense and childish.

The job was advertised and anyone was entitled to apply so not sure I buy into jobs for the boys either.

Lar Power is the new CEO of Kilkenny county council who was part of Waterford council for 13 years and chief executive for almost 4 years.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

Think it is the opposite, word is he has great experience and will be a great asset to Waterford.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

🤣 🤣 🤣 ..

Paranoid (delusional) much ??

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

Its clear as day that you have a chip on your shoulder about Kilkenny and anyone who you perceive (incorrectly) to be from it 🤣

Its fairly paranoid to think that somebody who got the job would intentionally not do a good job just to stick it to Waterford because they are "from" Kilkenny in your eyes, its really next level stuff and not a normal way to view people.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

I think he's actually a really good catch for WCCC, seems he has good experience and a lot of ambition for Waterford

Flow Motion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304245#Comment_122304245

Definitely paranoid and perhaps bordering on the insane tbh. Wfd-KK is not exactly North+South Korea! What will probably be disastrous for the NQ's and what has been for the years is Government policy. Designating a parcel of land SDZ and talk of the NPF Ireland 2040 is just simple PR. Sign of the times in the modern world where perception is valued more than results. At the moment it all has a feel of "give them a new train station and realign a few roads" and they'll be happy. If its left to the WCCC to actually develop the site than it will take decades. Over past 5 years Al Hokair and Harcourt have stalled most probably out of the growing realistaion that Waterford is too small for such a vision or that it does not make financial sense to develop it.

Having driven along the site route daily for the past year I think its fair to say progress is rather slow and ponderous. For past few months all work of the pedestrian bridge has ceased. Its supposed to be open in 2025 which seems a bit optimistic now. As a comparasion the N25 by-pass and second bridge was completed ahead of schedule in just over 3 years. And there was a hell of a lot of work to do on that project compared to the NQ's. Its bizarre coz almost all the NQ site/river frontage was empty and vacant pre-construction - you'd think a clear site would be like a blank canvas?

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305837#Comment_122305837

The bridge is being constructed abroad though and will be shipped over right? So once all the ground work is done, the bridge is put in place and then some work around tieing it all together

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305837#Comment_122305837

Time will tell, would love to know where some posters are getting their information on the new CEO and that he has great things planned for the County/City etc……….anyone care to provide a source?

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305837#Comment_122305837

God you're determined to knock it. Are you another one of those border lurkers, hoping for the worst? There are so many holes in your spiel that its hardly worthwhile answering them. One developer delayed and didn't come up with the cash. So what? The second has submitted planning more or less in accordance with what most people expected. Its not even granted and you are knocking it. Most likely that Harcourt will not commence any work, regardless of your impatience, until all public realm work is delivered by BAM. Harcourt will want full control of the site they intend to develop.

I certainly dont think that progress has been slow and "ponderous". What do you want, magic tricks? The bridge is being built off site and progress is being made all along river frontage including very large waste water works and flood control, new railway station, relaying of tracks, new bridge and so on.

Your posts are at the very least, unfair.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305837#Comment_122305837

Definitely not someone living or from Waterford. Another border troll!

JohnC.

"For past few months all work of the pedestrian bridge has ceased."

Where on earth is this coming from? They're working there all the time.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306617#Comment_122306617

I do not know how good or bad he will be, but I pointed that that he is actually from Armagh, living in Clonmel so your claim about bias towards KK over Waterford is unfounded.

For years we hear the usual people who generally toe the line of "the town is gone to the dogs boi" are the same people who look at Kilkenny and said "it's some spot boi", "I drove to KK to shop as it's easier than heading into town"

Surely some of that positive impact in Kilkenny has been the responsibility of their CEO, soon to be Waterford's CEO?

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307634#Comment_122307634

so in response to the social media experts we can expect at least the dual carriage way returning to the south quays and two way traffic retuning to the johns st Michael st to da key route at the clock tower…🤣

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307888#Comment_122307888

Yawn

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306934#Comment_122306934

Calm down kid will ya..
embarrassing .

Cabaal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122306934#Comment_122306934

If you can disagree with somebody's position, but you don't get to label other users as trolls just because you don't like what they say. Do it again and it'll be a 1 week ban.

Flow Motion

The whole point of message boards is being able to express an opinion. Just because what I think might not quite fit the positive narrative espoused with regards to the NQ's does not make my comments any less valid. Quite a few posters here would do well to try some cognitive dissonance - i.e. being able too hold two conflicting opinions in your mind at once. Such is the nature of modern life and our social/device based way to interacting with each other that certain people will pile in by default and seek out an echo chamber of similar opinions. For the record I am a proud Waterford person, who has lived, worked & been educated to degree level in Waterford. I have no interest in trolling of stirring the post. My posts only reflect what I see. Life is too short to waste valuable minutes on these boards. Im outta here.

JohnC.

The problem is spouting factual falsehoods (that all work in the bridge has been stopped for months) is not an opinion. It’s just spouting falsehoods.

azimuth17

There is a distinct difference between a contract to design, build and manage a facility like the Waterford City Bypass and a contract bounded by time and funding to supply a development like the North Quays. In the former case the builder is essentially constructing something for his own use over the 25 or so years of the contract. In the latter case the builder contracted to build something for the council's use (to sell/lease to Harcourt) at an agreed price within an agreed time schedule. The North Quays, to the best of my knowledge is largely on time and within budget since it started a year or so ago.. Regular media updates have been provided on this.

To suggest that nothing is being done or that work is progressing too slowly fails to understand this difference. Council had x amount to spend and contract is scheduled for delivery on that basis.

Asdfgh2020

progress would seems quite good, lots of road closures and giving out by ferrybank folk currently about abbey road……section closed for the summer which would seem to be a good time given that the schools just closed this week……there is a structure getting taller close to bottom on of the ‘Yorkshire’ road which is the new trains station from what o can gather plus a hive of activity opposite the abbey school and also at clock tower. Activity in the river though seems to be a bit slow / pedestrian even..🤣🤣🤣

Valhalla90

the bridge is going to arrive one day from Belgium and that’s it done. They can’t do anymore once the pillars are in place in the river.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122314348#Comment_122314348

Looking forward to that day already, hopefully the project team create a bit of fanfare around it.

JohnC.

Hopefully a section won't fall in the river this time 😉