Should convicted rapists be castrated

Sleepy

Georgiana wrote:

Economics is an extremely narrow limited basis on which to make decisons on questions of such moral complexity

What else have we?

Zulu

Sleepy wrote:

What else have we?

Morals? Ethics? Principles?

BuffyBot

Morals? Ethics? Principles?

But..but..they cost too much........................

Georgiana

If we based all our decisons on economics it would be a rather grim world. Having kids makes poor economic sense if you are capable of providing for your own retirement. Keeping old folks alive in nursing homes is a terrible economic decision. Holidays and recreation for those capable of working make no economic sense. Religion, philosophy, art and literature are a total waste of good economic resourcs.

Sleepy

Zulu wrote:

Morals? Ethics? Principles?

Who's?

Georgiana wrote:

If we based all our decisons on economics it would be a rather grim world. Having kids makes poor economic sense if you are capable of providing for your own retirement. Keeping old folks alive in nursing homes is a terrible economic decision. Holidays and recreation for those capable of working make no economic sense. Religion, philosophy, art and literature are a total waste of good economic resourcs.

You speak of personal decisions, not matters of state. However, supporting Art & Literartue can actually make economic sense as they can generate revenue through sales, festivals, exhibitions etc. Holidays and recreation make economic sense as an unrested worker will simply burn out and productivity will suffer. Keeping old folks alive is an economic debt assuming they've paid taxes during their lives and having kids makes economic sense as though you may be able to afford your own retirement, you'll still require state services such as health, transport and law enforcement, all of which require a tax base to provide their funding.

Even with that said, economics is something I'd believe in for the ruling of state, it doesn't apply so much to the governing of one's individual decision process.

pretty-in-pink

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

1) Absolutely not - they should be given the impression that their appeal is likely to work - get out the next day - given a congratulatory meal with a Mickey Finn in it. When they wake up they are now a woman. There is also the danger they may enjoy the pain of the surgery - I'm talking seriously twisted here - not just some pervert who hides in a bush and jumps on women cause he can't help himself.

2) Possibly (ok I'm really not basing this on any body of work that's been done on this - if you must call it bull**** - please feel free - but please mention your source that demonstrates this -i.e. prove me wrong) they endured some trauma in childhood that caused the invention of a god-like/demon-like personality that doesn't feel pain on many levels. Doesn't feel anything - sociopathically needs to perperate misery on others to feel anything. The alter-ego of the child is supressed very deeply by the more dominant personality and never resurfaces. Hence they are not diagnosed with MPD. Note: this just a theory

I should really have empasised more in my previous post - my suggested punishment would only apply where the victims are quite literally destroyed by the crime. Some college jock get drunk and perpetrates a date rape - I think just 20 years in the nick should suffice

i think if you researched properaly you would find that date rape is as bad ,sometimes worse, then a random attack. its a different kind of rape, but its still entry of an object into any orpheus where consent is withheld.

thats like saying you can accidently rape someone. there has to be some level of knowledge that what you are doing is wrong. by your reckioning can a boyfriend or husband rape their partner? surely it would just be a "harmless rape". all rape is soul destroying, you will never understand the guilt of it, and maybe the perpee in a date rape. or drug rape- nearly identical- feels worse because they feel that they didnt try hard enough and thats a view a lot of people seem to hold. "why didnt you scream, hit, bite, kick, cry out? "bottom line you shouldnt have to....and whats worse is that even when you fight it, it makes it worse, the perp gets off on it more. unless you go through it you can never comprehend the complexities and pain of rape.

do you then think that indecent assualt is any less damaging? picture a girl, alone with a bunch of guys, and they force them selves onto her body, touch her down there, grab her hands and make her give a hand job, head maybe?threten her the whole way through. no sounds would be heard.....loud music playing so she is completely defenceless as she is being pinned and no screams would ever be noticed outside the room, a second and third group of guys are outside the room waiting their turn. how much more damaging does this become if the girl has never done more then kiss a guy before? if when she breaks free, runs for her life, away from being gang raped by oh i dont know 10 guys?, finds someone she thought she could trust, gets blamed for it by the guy...and later discovers he anted in too? that her ex, who she thought had become a friend told her the assualt was her fault ,and that he wanted to be there, to pin her, to touch her, to rape her with a whole room full of guys doing the same thing?

anything like that is bad, really really bad. like half waking up to find your boyfriend has drugged you and is forcing himself up your ass, that the next moring there are 20 odd condoms on the floor.......and you have no clear memories of anything, just blurs involving 1/2/3 people at various points? these kind of perps dont deserve anything but to stew in their own conscience and to go to hell when they die, the lord will judge them, and they will all get what they deserve. noone on earth will ever be able to give someone what they deserve, these perps deserve our pity cause they need to hurt people to feel good, and its definatley a classless thing............cause all my experiences are from rich boys, and the so called scumbags have treated me really well. its not a poverty thing, its an evil thing

Zulu

Some posts I wish I never read - that was one.
No offence - but I could live my life happier not having read it.

pretty-in-pink

apologies for dragging ya down, bit of an outburst, sorry, i just know to many peopel who have been hurt by guys esp rich boys who are not used to the word NO

Zulu

naughty_girl wrote:

apologies for dragging ya down, bit of an outburst, sorry, i just know to many peopel who have been hurt by guys esp rich boys who are not used to the word NO

No your point was perfectly valid and apt. Just a little too valid and apt.

pretty-in-pink

yeah sorry bout that, its a big horrible issue, and sometimes a girl need to let off steam.

at least i dont hate all men though, cause iv had planty of good experiences to

JTPB

test999 wrote:

willy removal by sword (purely for dramatic affect) would be
a deterrent for all future rapists.

Hmmm, I'd like to enquire further but I am on holidays from today on and may not find it possible to post.

ruby_s

if a person chooses to rape or in anyway force themselves upon another person, i think it is wholly justifiable that the punishment suit the crime, granted there is no possible way of making a rapist experience, in any measure, the soul destroying emotional aspect of being raped, but i definitely think castration is a step in the right direction. society wouldn't convict a murderer and then arm them with their weapon of choice, nor should it be acceptable that a rapist is found guilty and NOT be castrated.

elivsvonchiaing

naughty_girl wrote:

anything like that is bad, really really bad. like half waking up to find your boyfriend has drugged you and is forcing himself up your ass, that the next moring there are 20 odd condoms on the floor.......and you have no clear memories of anything, just blurs involving 1/2/3 people at various points? these kind of perps dont deserve anything but to stew in their own conscience and to go to hell when they die, the lord will judge them, and they will all get what they deserve. noone on earth will ever be able to give someone what they deserve, these perps deserve our pity cause they need to hurt people to feel good, and its definatley a classless thing............cause all my experiences are from rich boys, and the so called scumbags have treated me really well. its not a poverty thing, its an evil thing

I stand corrected. I appologise for my ignorance of date-rape. Such people really don't belong in society.

If the precedent was there - i.e. they knew someone who will die behind bars - maybe sixty years from now - they wouldn't rape. They would keep this in mind no matter how drunk they got or what drugs they took - until they take the wrong drug - rape, get locked away forever, and their mates stop taking that one.

I'm not making a naive statement here - severe penalties for rape will not eliminate rape - but it will curtail it. The idea that rapists get out only to re-offend makes my blood boil.

Silent Grape

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

I should really have empasised more in my previous post - my suggested punishment would only apply where the victims are quite literally destroyed by the crime. Some college jock get drunk and perpetrates a date rape - I think just 20 years in the nick should suffice

cant believe you said that. you think there should be different levels of punishment for different 'levels' of rape? there are no different levels, no matter how you're raped, its still rape. even like myself you were too drunk at the time and can only remember flashbacks. you think that because naughty girls rape appears more evil and clear cut as a rape case, her attacker should ve pnished more severly than mine??

somebody else may have recovered in half the time, or twice as long, from what i experienced. maybe if i was sober at the time id have all the facts and wouldnt still be questioning myself as to whether i didnt lead him on. does that make my attacker any less of a rapist than the old stereotype of a man raping a girl in an alleyway? no, it doesnt.

elivsvonchiaing

Silent Grape wrote:

cant believe you said that. you think there should be different levels of punishment for different 'levels' of rape? there are no different levels, no matter how you're raped, its still rape. even like myself you were too drunk at the time and can only remember flashbacks. you think that because naughty girls rape appears more evil and clear cut as a rape case, her attacker should ve pnished more severly than mine??

somebody else may have recovered in half the time, or twice as long, from what i experienced. maybe if i was sober at the time id have all the facts and wouldnt still be questioning myself as to whether i didnt lead him on. does that make my attacker any less of a rapist than the old stereotype of a man raping a girl in an alleyway? no, it doesnt.

You've obviously not read the intial post (reply). Here I detailed that victims were catatonic 10 years after the event - not just irate - as you are - deserve superior justice. Because you posted - I know this does not apply to you - you are a survivor. There are many others who are not. The degree - is differentiating between survivors and non-survivors - yes - there is actually a difference - there are degrees of rape actually! I do concede that the same event by the same perpetrator on different women will lead to survivors - and non-survivors - those who never get back to their normal lives.

I believe sentencing in all personal assualt crimes should be based on the trauma the victim has received.

Silent Grape

you cant really judge that, though, can you.
i am not 'just' irate, i have dealt with this and am still dealing with numerous different sexual attacks occuring over the last four years. dont you have the audactity to tell me i am 'just' irate!

so your basing punishment on the victims coping capablities.
so lets say another person was raped in the same way i was, drunk, in a field, lots of blurring of what happened going on. takes me nearly three months to actually admit it happening. three suicide attempts. repeated stays in mental hospital, family breakdown (as a result of my depression and self harm).
the other victim remains 'catatonic' after her rape. your saying her attacker should get a worse punishment than mine, because she was less able to deal with it?? we both went through the same thing!! thats absurd to even suggest it. if a man rapes and buggers someone, he should be senteced to 2 counts of rape, if he also beats her, he should be charged with assault as well. u cant just rely on emotion.

so your saying that we wait and see how the victim is dealing, and then sentence the perp to the apropriate punishment? that is extraordinarily unfair to all rape and sexual assault victims.

you think because im posting here its all sunshine? you think im EVER going to be the girl i was before it happend? no victim of rape can ever fully get over it, i believe, we can deal with it and move on, but it will always have happened. whether its brutal, down an alley rape or lying in a field stoned and drunk, its the same crime, same time, not 'hang on, she appears to be okay now, so we'll giver her attacker less than the other attacker, whose victim is still in a mental home'

and, which assault crimes are 'non personal'?

i am absolutely disgusted with your attitude, and the way you spoke to me. just because i am a 'survivor', does not mean my rapist should get any less of a sentence than if he did the same thing to someone else, except they wernt as strong emotionally as me.

its laughable that you think im 'just irate' about this.

Iago

In many ways date rape or rape by someone you know,is far worse than being raped by a stranger, from a physical point of view the scars are the same, from a mental point of view as well. Emotionally though you enter a whole new world with date rape, this is someone you know, you trust, you have faith in. Someone you believe would never hurt you in a million years, probably someone that you look to for help and guidance. They take that trust, that belief and they completely destroy it, not only that but they leave you wondering what you did wrong? you must have done something to give the impression that you wanted it, that led him on...and afterwards the shock makes you numb inside, makes you question yourself over and over. You find yourself alienated because whereever you go he's there, the shame of it makes you want the ground to open up and swallow you..your faith in men, and in kindness can never be recovered, no longer will you be the happy person you were before, you may smile in the right places and laugh when it's required but inside there's a part of you that died that night and can never be born again....

I'm not a girl and I've never been raped, but I've known a couple of girls that where, and whether it's a stranger, a friend, boyfriend or even family member, it makes no difference they should be slaughtered like the animals they are.

I would happily spend my life in prision for killing one of these scumbags, prison doesn't rehabilitate them, it simply locks them up with other scum so that they can share stories and get themselves off. They should be castrated and or killed, they deserve nothing more.

Sleepy

naughty_girl wrote:

i think if you researched properaly you would find that date rape is as bad ,sometimes worse, then a random attack. its a different kind of rape, but its still entry of an object into any orpheus where consent is withheld.

thats like saying you can accidently rape someone. there has to be some level of knowledge that what you are doing is wrong. by your reckioning can a boyfriend or husband rape their partner? surely it would just be a "harmless rape". all rape is soul destroying, you will never understand the guilt of it, and maybe the perpee in a date rape. or drug rape- nearly identical- feels worse because they feel that they didnt try hard enough and thats a view a lot of people seem to hold. "why didnt you scream, hit, bite, kick, cry out? "bottom line you shouldnt have to....and whats worse is that even when you fight it, it makes it worse, the perp gets off on it more. unless you go through it you can never comprehend the complexities and pain of rape.

do you then think that indecent assualt is any less damaging? picture a girl, alone with a bunch of guys, and they force them selves onto her body, touch her down there, grab her hands and make her give a hand job, head maybe?threten her the whole way through. no sounds would be heard.....loud music playing so she is completely defenceless as she is being pinned and no screams would ever be noticed outside the room, a second and third group of guys are outside the room waiting their turn. how much more damaging does this become if the girl has never done more then kiss a guy before? if when she breaks free, runs for her life, away from being gang raped by oh i dont know 10 guys?, finds someone she thought she could trust, gets blamed for it by the guy...and later discovers he anted in too? that her ex, who she thought had become a friend told her the assualt was her fault ,and that he wanted to be there, to pin her, to touch her, to rape her with a whole room full of guys doing the same thing?

anything like that is bad, really really bad. like half waking up to find your boyfriend has drugged you and is forcing himself up your ass, that the next moring there are 20 odd condoms on the floor.......and you have no clear memories of anything, just blurs involving 1/2/3 people at various points? these kind of perps dont deserve anything but to stew in their own conscience and to go to hell when they die, the lord will judge them, and they will all get what they deserve. noone on earth will ever be able to give someone what they deserve, these perps deserve our pity cause they need to hurt people to feel good, and its definatley a classless thing............cause all my experiences are from rich boys, and the so called scumbags have treated me really well. its not a poverty thing, its an evil thing

That is, and I don't use the word often, shocking. Little in life surprises me but that one girl can experience that amount of depravity stuns and disgusts me. I think I can see where our difference of opinion comes from though, you believe in God, and I therefore assume hell. I don't. Which is possibly why I want to see these scum (it's not an economic term afaic) punished while you believe they'll get it in the afterlife?

I'm amazed your mental health seems as good as it does and must admit, that after reading that, have an enormous amount of respect for you.

pretty-in-pink

Sleepy wrote:

That is, and I don't use the word often, shocking. Little in life surprises me but that one girl can experience that amount of depravity stuns and disgusts me. I think I can see where our difference of opinion comes from though, you believe in God, and I therefore assume hell. I don't. Which is possibly why I want to see these scum (it's not an economic term afaic) punished while you believe they'll get it in the afterlife?

I'm amazed your mental health seems as good as it does and must admit, that after reading that, have an enormous amount of respect for you.

thanks very much for saying that. it means a lot, because every so often i question my own sanity, and the kind of vibes i give out that attracts people who just want to hurt others.

i didnt believ in god for a while, for a lot of reasons, but i do now. its the rock i cling too, and if someone has actaully repented as opposed to just saying it then only god will know. so in my opinion only god can dole out a suitable punishment. but i know that a lot of people would not agree with me on that. i try not hold onto the scarring emotions of the past, try to live my life as fully as i can. im not afraid anymore, cause i reckon if despite everything i went through, including a very deep patch of depression, i can come out alive, iv got to have a purpose, and that i will not be able to acchieve it if i dont try. also if im meant to die, or meant to go through something then nothing i can do will prevent it, so why be afraid?


does that make sense? i dont know how to explain it any more clearly but i can try if ya need me to

df001i6876

women rape men too do you castrated them too or is this just for men only. I remember a story a few years ago in a local

news paper were a woman had rape a school boy.

i also seen a article on castration . it the brain that makes you rape.

castration stops kid from being born..

teaser

hmmm, Castration seems a bit extreme, sound like torture, and that is the same as what rapists do to their victims,
I say send them to jail for the rest of their life! never allow them out unless found innocent. same goes for murderers

elivsvonchiaing

Silent Grape wrote:

so your saying that we wait and see how the victim is dealing, and then sentence the perp to the apropriate punishment? that is extraordinarily unfair to all rape and sexual assault victims.
....
i am absolutely disgusted with your attitude, and the way you spoke to me. just because i am a 'survivor', does not mean my rapist should get any less of a sentence than if he did the same thing to someone else, except they wernt as strong emotionally as me.

its laughable that you think im 'just irate' about this.

{I've composed many a reply to this and binned it - I realized I was still too angry. Now, I'm beginning to regret posting in this thread - the issue is just too emotive}
No, what I'm saying is if the rapists get 10 years and the victims are still in a bad-way psychologically (e.g. catatonic, etc). There should be a sentencing, re-evaluatiuon - with the judge having the power to add years as he/she sees fit. Particularly if the issue is the victim fears retribution for their testimony. (This could also be applied to the most violent non-sexual assaults).

From what I've seen over the years, I've no faith in any judge to do this properly. E.g. you may remember the case a few years ago that was thrown out because the victim "provoked" the assault. This judge deserves a slow and painful death - she may have "provoked" a black eye - but rape is different and current judicial attitudes don't reflect this.

I have to concede that my views on the subject are probably only compatible with a neo-fascist dictatorship - but I would like the judicial system to serve the victim far better than it is right now.

I deeply sympathise with your horrific experience. I apologise for my patronising/insulting tone - however you take it. I was incandescent with rage - you had more or less said all rapes are equal (equally traumatic and damaging). This I could not suffer. While my reply was a bit of a rant I stand by the principle that there are some rapes worse than others.

Do you seriously think that the rape of 10 year old girl (all she knows is Barbie dolls and is an innocent) is not worse than the rape of a 25 year old woman (she knows whats out there - and will probably be far better able to handle it - not that she won't take years to recover something of her former self)??? The 10 year old will never make as a good a recovery - I believe.

elivsvonchiaing

df001i6876 wrote:

women rape men too do you castrated them too or is this just for men only. I remember a story a few years ago in a local

news paper were a woman had rape a school boy.

i also seen a article on castration . it the brain that makes you rape.

castration stops kid from being born..

wtf is this? How the fcuk can a woman rape a schoolboy? Are we talking a strap-on dildo or something?

I've seen something bordering on rape of woman on man at xmas party - but seriously - it can't be considered rape he even at a very drunken level complied/consented. There has to be some level of "want" for anything to happen. Not the case man on woman!

While I appreciate my own posts are off the wall - this is just too off the wall for this forum IMHO.

Zulu

women can rape men - if you can't understand or except this fact then you really should consider your input to this argument

The Clown Man

Ok probably the deepest thread I've ever read on boards but here's my input.

I actually know quite a few people who have been raped. I'm very sorry to say.

And I have thought for years that castration will nullify any evil sexual desires and hopefully make a kitten out of the perpetrator. But recently I have changed my mind.

I may a bit of a b*stard when it comes to deciding punishments but I really just want to look at the bigger picture and find a solution which is a meritable deterrant towards future recurrances.

I think sexual offenders should be killed. Administered a lethel injection. Pacified in the most effective way.

These are people who can only harm society. I know they all have their own stories of sadness and woe but the pain and suffering they inflict on perfectly decent members of society is simply unacceptable.

God, I know one girl who was on holidays when I was in the same resort who got raped one night. She was such a f**king lively, bubbly, beautiful girl who enjoyed every bit of every day. She was raped by 3 guys. This ruined her.

2 nights later she was raped again by 2 different guys.

She has attempted suicide countless times since and lives as a recluse. She has to have someone with her at all times in case she finds something else with which to kill herself. The saddest thing is that she is still alive imho. I would probably pull the trigger myself just to let her go. This makes me want to cry just thinking about it. The girl lost her own life 2 years ago but is still living the pain. No one on this planet deserves that. It's too much for one fragile mind.

I have a number of friends who were abused when they were children. The effect this has had on their lives is enormous. There is not a day they can forget what happened. And sh*t 2 of them have not even told their parents or anyone who would do anything about it. They just do not want to re-live the experience by going back over it again. And the perps are calling round to their houses and having tea with their parents. The victims have just learned not to brake down when they are round.

I don't need to tell you that I would instantly report any of these guys but the victims just will not let me do it. And I'll respect their decision even if I think they are wrong. The 2 girls mentioned above are now unable to have children due to anorexia which was a mental side effect of their experiences.

These f*ckers don't just hurt or distress a person. They ruin a person. And anyone who has experieced this and is living on: I have only the greatest amount of respect for you. I have seen far too often the results of sexual crimes and good people who could not cope. If I could make it not happen ever again by whatever means I would. People who commit these crimes should not be allowed interact with the innocent in any way. The risks are far too great.



(And by the way - I don't know why people tell me about these experiences. But it seems that everyone who has had a terrible experience tells me about it. I really wish they would not. I f*cking hate being "the only one I've told about this." As selfish as it sounds I would be so much the happier person if I did not know this sh*t was going on in the world. Having said that I much rather my position than theirs.)

elivsvonchiaing

Zulu wrote:

women can rape men - if you can't understand or except this fact then you really should consider your input to this argument

I concede this happens. However, have you ever heard a news report as follows: "The victims varied from young boys to old men one victim was 12 years old, one was 72. Police a looking for a caucasian women about 5'6'' believed to be in her early thirties".

Nope didn't think so.

Imho opinion mentioning this in this thread is inappropriate.

Silent Grape

elvisetc, my sister was raped and abused from the ages of 6 to 10. by a cousin who lives in america. she doesnt want to press charges or anything, because it would probably cause more harm than good. she admitted to it when she was 30, and is still in therapy.

of course some rapes are worse than others, and ill be the first to be thankful that i was stoned and had alcohol on me to numb the pain. my sister was a tiny little girl, but i still think that both attackers should get life imprisonment.

i was beaten so badly im lucky i didnt need plastic surgery. what im trying to say is that we cant judge people purely on emotions, we have to have the facts.
also you cant compare the rape of a child and the rape of a woman, (i was 16 when it happened, where do i fit in?) , because the mind sets are so different. i am NEVER going to say 'well i managed to get something poisitive out of that', ie, get over it fully. neither is my sister. that makes us equal, no? also you can be living in hell and have nobody even realise it. i spent from just before my 17th birthday deeply depressed for a year, before i attempted suicide and the problem finally got noticed.

however i do realise what you are saying, but rapists should get far more than 10 years anyway. **** it, if my rapist only got ten years id pretend to be catatonic just to see him go down for longer.

on a side note my car was burnt down last night so im in a marvellous mood

elivsvonchiaing

Silent Grape. I completely agree that rapists should get more than 10 years - most cases they should never see the light of day again. This doesn't happen right now. It is only through the brave testimony of people like you and naughty_girl to name just a few, that this ever likely to change.

I salute you.

Zulu

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

I concede this happens. However, have you ever heard a news report as follows: "The victims varied from young boys to old men one victim was 12 years old, one was 72. Police a looking for a caucasian women about 5'6'' believed to be in her early thirties".

Nope didn't think so.

Imho opinion mentioning this in this thread is inappropriate.

Man are far less likely to report a rape, for one.
Secondly - how is it inappropriate? We are talking about rapists aren't we? Are you proposing that, that type of rape is any less serious? Honestly - why do you feel it's inappropriate?

Women show amazing strenght in the recovery of rape crimes. Men don't. Men (most likely due to the nature of the male ego - ie: being a man and being able to defend yourself) have a far weaker ability to recover from such attacks. (I'm not suggesting that it isn't any less horrendous btw)

elivsvonchiaing

Zulu wrote:

Man are far less likely to report a rape, for one.
Secondly - how is it inappropriate? We are talking about rapists aren't we? Are you proposing that, that type of rape is any less serious? Honestly - why do you feel it's inappropriate?

Women show amazing strenght in the recovery of rape crimes. Men don't. Men (most likely due to the nature of the male ego - ie: being a man and being able to defend yourself) have a far weaker ability to recover from such attacks. (I'm not suggesting that it isn't any less horrendous btw)

Trawling through google I really could find sfa about it - nearly every page was men raping women. This led me to the impression that it is indeed rare. My own gut feeling is that it just can't be as damaging to a man when a woman is the rapist - as they other way round. But I concede I know sfa about this.

To point to the title of thread - how do you castrate women anyhow?