Decentralisation

ishmael whale

I think the more apt quotes are towards the end of his article. The proposed programme simply takes resources and time away from the issues we actually need to address.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1336825_2,00.html

“What we actually need is fully co-ordinated and rapidly executed planning within the eastern region. The country’s builders and developers are raising their game substantially: just look at the planned developments at Adamstown, Balgriffin and Baldoyle. But city planners are trying to cope with a huge surge of development while working within slow and fragmented planning structures.

Jones Lang LaSalle, when asked to explain why Dublin could rank fourth in its list of 90 European cities, repeated the well-worn mantra that the city is now “technology rich”. This is simply not true. There are large parts of Dublin where you cannot get broadband and the service record of many so-called technology providers is abysmal.

Neither should we be too cocky about our education system, whose excellence causes our political masters to claim regularly that we have the “most computer literate youth” in Europe.

The reality is that standards within our education system have slipped enormously and we are only spending perhaps 50% of what is required on third level.

The hundreds of millions that Parlon is about to pay to landowners and developers for rural office space would be better employed in improving the standard of technological education in universities and investing in our technological infrastructure.”

NewDubliner

From The Irish Independent", November 10.

Experts to help civil servants with rural relocation

DECENTRALISING civil servants are to be assisted in their move from the capital with advice on the local property market, the best creches available, and how their spouses can get a job in their new home towns.

The Department of Finance has just advertised for the supply of "support services" for the 9,000 staff relocating under the Government's decentralisation plan.

The advertisement on the Government website asks for expressions of interest to be sent in for auctioneering, legal, relocation, and other services to "support and assist staff relocating" to any of the 53 locations around the country.

A spokesman for the Department explained yesterday that the advertisement had been placed as a result of a proposal from the top level Decentralisation Implementation Group, headed by Phil Flynn, to oversee the process of decentralisation.

In a report last March the Group said that those moving would need advice on the sale or letting of their homes in Dublin and help to identify a suitable home in their new locations, as well as securing places in local schools and creches.

It also proposed offering assistance in introducing the civil and public servants to the recreational activities offered in their new local communities such as sports clubs.

Another proposal is to have a placement service for the spouses or partners of those relocating to find a suitable position in or near their new location.

Meanwhile, Bus Éireann staff protested in Dublin yesterday to highlight the cost to their pension scheme of civil servants taking up posts in the new decentralised Bus Éireann offices in Cork, writes Gerald Flynn.

The semi-state pension fund is already €73m in deficit and 10 civil servants to join would add up to €5m in additional liabilities according to the Transport Salaried Staff Association (TSSA) union.

Civil servants with non-contributory pensions who transfer into Bus Éireann must join CIÉ's superannuation scheme but there is no provision for contributions for past service to transfer.

"It is conservatively estimated that this will cost €500,000 per person per transfer," said TSSA official Colm Jordan.

"We want to know where will this money come from and what will be the effect on the 1951 CIÉ superannuation scheme if it is to take the full liability of past service on board with no corresponding contribution."

"Our pensions are at risk and we need answers," said Roger Hannon, TSSA Irish secretary.

Alison O'Connor
Political Correspondent

NewDubliner

The following from the "Irish Independent", it'll be interesting to see if the writers are correct about Revenue & Kildare (allegedly 'within easy commuting distance of Dublin'), as this location attracted only a few applications from IT staff & managers in an area that is struggling to get by in the face of skill shortages. Inside information is that some experienced staff chose not to apply rather than have to work in a seriously depleted department. Others were simply underwhlemed by the attractions of Kildare town.

First wave of 4,000 civil servants on 'move' alert

ANXIOUS ministers are poised to push through vastly scaled-down decentralisation plans before the Budget to avoid a damaging political backlash.

They will rubber-stamp a report on the departments that should move first.

That will spark the first wave of 4,000 civil servants and between 15 and 20 government departments and state agencies to new locations within two years.

Ministers are desperate to sign off on the details before the Budget to minimise the political fallout from the considerably scaled-down version of the plan unveiled a year ago.

In his final Budget last year, then Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy announced plans for 10,000 public and civil servants to move to 53 locations outside of Dublin.

For several months former trade union leader Phil Flynn worked to devise a schedule for decentralisation.

He has taken into account the numbers interested in moving and the range of properties available to the state to accommodate transfers outside Dublin.

Mr Flynn will finalise his plans later this week and will present his recommendations to the Cabinet sub-committee dealing with decentralisation.

His report will outline the government departments most ready to move.

The Government expects he will suggest a series of phased moves involving a core group of government departments, possibly three or four, and anything up to 15 state agencies and sections of government departments.

The most popular departments and agencies under the central applications facility were nearest Dublin.

Mr Flynn's report is understood to recommend that the Government start decentralising those departments first as they are most sought after.

Junior Finance Minister Tom Parlon - who is in charge of the project - said last night there had been "intense negotiations" in the last couple of days between agencies, departments, the OPW and the implementation group.

"I would expect up to 20 departments and agencies, more departments than agencies, to be on the list."

Others understood to be on the list are the departments of Social and Family Affairs and Communications, which will see 603 civil servants move to Drogheda.

The first batch is also expected to include the Department of Defence, with 199 posts moving to Newbridge, the Revenue Commissioners, with 629 jobs going to Athy and Kildare town, the OPW with 328 staff to Trim in Co Meath, and the Prison Service, with 158 jobs going to Longford and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with 312 posts going to Carlow.

Tom Felle and
Brian Dowling

BolBill

Here are a few points in regards to decentralization from a Civil Servant in IT that I know.

1. All IT jobs will be out sourced to contract, meaning that the government will be spending at least 3 times more on IT wages than at present.

2. The general take up of positions was low. In fact a lot of Civil Servants applied for areas outside Dublin in panic more than anything else. These idiots only served to inflate the numbers to a reasonable level.

3. Civil Servants that do not wish to leave Dublin, well they just won't. In fact, they won't have a job to go to but can not be removed from employment so the majority will end up in an office with no work to do.

4. Some buildings are been vacanted to allow the government to convert the ideally situated properties into apartments for TD's to use.

5. The buildings outside of Dublin that the Depts are moving to will be generally owed by TDs themselves or associates of TDs hence somebody makes a lot of money from leasing out these buildings.


The whole idea of Decentralization is a government stunt to get more voters that is destined to ruin the Civil Service in the future. In IT, experience is everything, but all that experience will be gone.
In Agriculture, for instance, the farmers will be the first to give out when their money doesn't arrive, "Well you voted Fianna Fail in in the first place (as usual) so you reap what you sow" should be the reply. Remember Civil Servants found out about Decentralization on the radio, nothing was ever discussed with them before.

Rant over

gazzer

Here are a few points in regards to decentralization from a Civil Servant in IT that I know.

1. All IT jobs will be out sourced to contract, meaning that the government will be spending at least 3 times more on IT wages than at present.

2. The general take up of positions was low. In fact a lot of Civil Servants applied for areas outside Dublin in panic more than anything else. These idiots only served to inflate the numbers to a reasonable level.

3. Civil Servants that do not wish to leave Dublin, well they just won't. In fact, they won't have a job to go to but can not be removed from employment so the majority will end up in an office with no work to do.

4. Some buildings are been vacanted to allow the government to convert the ideally situated properties into apartments for TD's to use.

5. The buildings outside of Dublin that the Depts are moving to will be generally owed by TDs themselves or associates of TDs hence somebody makes a lot of money from leasing out these buildings.


The whole idea of Decentralization is a government stunt to get more voters that is destined to ruin the Civil Service in the future. In IT, experience is everything, but all that experience will be gone.
In Agriculture, for instance, the farmers will be the first to give out when their money doesn't arrive, "Well you voted Fianna Fail in in the first place (as usual) so you reap what you sow" should be the reply. Remember Civil Servants found out about Decentralization on the radio, nothing was ever discussed with them before.

Rant over


You are very true in what you say about the IT jobs.

I started in IT in April 2004 after spending a number of years in administrative grades. I spent the first four months in a classroom learning about COBOL and SQL. At the moment i am on probation and will be until April 2005. This is the norm for anyone who is promoted (I think it is two years if you are a new entrant to the service)

If on April 2005 I am deemed not suitable for IT work for whatever reason I will revert back to the grade i was before i took up the IT post and to the wage i was on then also (though i only got an increase of 20 euro a week when i was promoted to IT).

What i think is going to happen is that a lot of IT civil servents on probation will not get their probation and will be reverted back to their previous grades. The jobs will then be outsourced to private contractors.

In my case i work in Revenue and have no desire to go to Kildare. I have just bought a house in Dublin West, dont have a car (and where I live.. if i did there is a fair chance it would be stolen and burnt out as this has happened to my neighbours on either side of my house). If i was to sell up and move to Kildare the amount i would have to pay in Stamp Duty will probably make it too expensive, So, if i was to commute to kildare i would have to get a bus to town, then another one to Hueston Station and then the train to Kildare... god knows how long that will take.

At the moment there are a lot of contract IT workers in the department. In my room they outnumber the civil service staff by 4 : 1.

What you say about turning departments into apartments is as far as i know also true (well at least being talked about). The most favoured one at the moment is the Agriculture building on Kildare St as it is right beside the Dail.

There are going to be a lot of people (who remain in Dublin) sitting at desks twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do. I know a lot of you will probably say that is what we do anyway but i definately dont want to end up like that. I am genuinely scared for where i am going to end up when the move to Kildare takes place

pete

gazzer wrote:

There are going to be a lot of people (who remain in Dublin) sitting at desks twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do. I know a lot of you will probably say that is what we do anyway but i definately dont want to end up like that. I am genuinely scared for where i am going to end up when the move to Kildare takes place

I too am remaining in Dublin, and I'm dreading the future. I consider myself lucky - I love my job. Sure, we're overworked, and we get little or no recognition from our colleagues, but it's interesting work and can be extremely rewarding. However, increasingly I find myself thinking "why bother?". Why put in the extra effort? Why go the extra mile? In 18 months it'll all be SEP (someone else's problem).

And I hate that.

Also, I'm getting increasingly worried about what definition of Dublin will be used when i'm told to get out. I live in Dublin 15, right on the Dublin / Meath border. I already have a 75 minute commute each way - I don't relish the thought of potentially having to double that to get to some office on the outskirts of the southside or westside, considering all the prime real estate will be surrendered....

bonkey

gazzer wrote:

There are going to be a lot of people (who remain in Dublin) sitting at desks twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do.

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed?

If so, then - given that you can't fire people - the only way to reduce staff numbers is through attrition...and in order to pave the way for that, you need to create "redundant" positions...positions that last only until the current person in it leaves (cause you can't fire them).

Like I said...maybe I'm missing something, but thats how this is beginning to read to me.

jc

pete

bonkey wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed?

If so, then - given that you can't fire people - the only way to reduce staff numbers is through attrition...and in order to pave the way for that, you need to create "redundant" positions...positions that last only until the current person in it leaves (cause you can't fire them).

Like I said...maybe I'm missing something, but thats how this is beginning to read to me.

jc

The overstaffing situation will arise when / if posts are relocated from Dublin. As there aren't 100% applications from within the service for these relocated posts, they will have to be filled from fresh recruitment. The original holders of these posts remain in Dublin doing god knows what.

Meanwhile, back in the real world we're not going to see 100% realisation of the plan any time soon & the excess Dublin staff will most likely be absorbed into the remnants of the Departments left here. Over time, natural wastage will do it's thing.

Someone else will probably explain this far better than that.

pete

bonkey wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed?

Oh and incidentally, I'm not denying that parts of the Civil Service may be overstaffed - while this definitely is true in some areas, speaking only from my own experience, I've found it's usually the reverse.

pete

gazzer wrote:

The general take up of positions was low. In fact a lot of Civil Servants applied for areas outside Dublin in panic more than anything else. These idiots only served to inflate the numbers to a reasonable level.

These gullible souls aren't contractually bound to actually move. It should be interesting to see how this one pans out.

Some buildings are been vacanted to allow the government to convert the ideally situated properties into apartments for TD's to use.

I think Agriculture House has been identified as a suitable location for office suites for ministers with decentralised head office's, but i haven't heard anything about actual residential apartments. Not that anything would surprise me.

The buildings outside of Dublin that the Depts are moving to will be generally owed by TDs themselves or associates of TDs hence somebody makes a lot of money from leasing out these buildings.

Any evidence of this? I think there's an effort to acquire land / premises from councils, regional authorities etc (ie at no net cost to the exchequer) but, again, nothing would surprise me.

gazzer

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed?

If so, then - given that you can't fire people - the only way to reduce staff numbers is through attrition...and in order to pave the way for that, you need to create "redundant" positions...positions that last only until the current person in it leaves (cause you can't fire them).

Like I said...maybe I'm missing something, but thats how this is beginning to read to me.


I can see how you would think this but what you must understand is that say for instance 200 jobs are to be moved to Carlow and these 200 jobs are at the moment filled by Dublin staff.... if only 50 dublin people opt to go to Carlow they still have to fill the 150 vaccanices as somebody has to do that work.... what this will mean will that there will be local recruitment to fill these.... So when i say there will be people in Dublin twiddling their thumbs this is because the jobs (not the people) will be getting moved to Carlow. In effect they will be adding 150 more people to the Civil Service staff but taking away 150 jobs from people in dublin... Hope i explaned that correctly to you.

gazzer

Also, I'm getting increasingly worried about what definition of Dublin will be used when i'm told to get out. I live in Dublin 15, right on the Dublin / Meath border. I already have a 75 minute commute each way - I don't relish the thought of potentially having to double that to get to some office on the outskirts of the southside or westside, considering all the prime real estate will be surrendered

That could cause a problem Pete depending on where the office is, however as far as i know you cant be sent to a department/section that is more than 15 miles away from the office you are being moved from. I would love to be moved to the revenue offices that are on the Navan Road (beside the halfway house) but as far as i know there are no IT posts going there and as i am based in the city centre at the moment i could be sent up to 15 miles away in any direction. So if i was to be sent to somwhere out on the southside it would really increase my commuting time. Like you Pete i have around an 70 - 80 minute commute each way at the moment

bonkey

gazzer wrote:

Hope i explaned that correctly to you.

Well...I get the idea of what you're explaining.

Thanks

jc

pete

gazzer wrote:

That could cause a problem Pete depending on where the office is, however as far as i know you cant be sent to a department/section that is more than 15 miles away from the office you are being moved from.

15 miles???? That means I could end up anywhere from kildare to somewhere off the coast of Wales. jesus.

I would love to be moved to the revenue offices that are on the Navan Road (beside the halfway house) but as far as i know there are no IT posts going there and as i am based in the city centre at the moment i could be sent up to 15 miles away in any direction. So if i was to be sent to somwhere out on the southside it would really increase my commuting time. Like you Pete i have around an 70 - 80 minute commute each way at the moment

ha are you me?

uncivilservant

From the latest PSEU circular comes an indication of the level of wrangling left between unions & management:

The PSEU Representative reminded the meeting that there was a number of other issues still to be finalised, as follows :

i) Staff on Allowances including the Revenue APTH,
ii) Staff ‘acting’ on higher duties
iii) Staff required to re-locate to Dublin in order to train before going to their location of choice
iv) The Dublin CAF arrangements.

It was noted that there were significant rumours about possible IT out-sourcing and some clarity on this was sought also.

9. In response to some of these issues, the Official Side stated, as follows :

i) Their position is that allowances that are personal to holders, including higher scales and Revenue APTHs can be retained if the Staff Side is agreeable. However, the CPSU had yet to confirm its agreement. With regard to allowances related to work, their position is that unless the person continues doing the work even if their posts are re-located, they will cease to be paid the relevant allowances, while recognising that claims for loss of earnings can be processed through the C&A machinery.

Re 8 (iv) above, they said that the arrangements for a Dublin CAF would be set out in their out in their paper for the next meeting.

They agreed to consider the other matters again.

No hurry there, lads.

(taken from http://www.pseu.ie/docs/Decent19.doc)

uncivilservant

Is the penny starting to drop?

The Dublin region will experience a spending reduction of at least €500 million to €600 million per annum as a result of decentralisation, according to Dr Brendan Williams, a lecturer in urban economics at the Dublin Institute of Technology.

Williams told the annual conference of the Society of Chartered Surveyors (SCS) last Friday that this would be the effect of moving public service jobs out of the capital city. "The expected boost that such relocations will confer on selected areas have been widely publicised in the regions, while debate as to the potential negative impact of the initiatives on the economic base of the Dublin area has to date been minimal," he said.

"Based upon government figures, the effect of the loss of such jobs would in isolation represent a reduction of spending capacity in the Dublin region of €500 million to €600 million per annum." Such a loss would have serious impact on retail spending in the capital city.

Taken from an article in The Sunday Business Post, 7th November - http://www.thepost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-739495766-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper-2FProperty.asp

Victor

BolBill wrote:

1. All IT jobs will be out sourced to contract, meaning that the government will be spending at least 3 times more on IT wages than at present.

How many people in IT get "wages"

4. Some buildings are been vacanted to allow the government to convert the ideally situated properties into apartments for TD's to use.

5. The buildings outside of Dublin that the Depts are moving to will be generally owed by TDs themselves or associates of TDs hence somebody makes a lot of money from leasing out these buildings.

I think you are grossly exaggerating here. Sowing some misinformation, rancour and dissent, are we?

uncivilservant wrote:

Is the penny starting to drop?
Taken from an article in The Sunday Business Post, 7th November - http://www.thepost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-739495766-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper-2FProperty.asp

Penny dropped quite some time ago with the Dublin Chamber of Commerce. I imagine this piece eminated from among the Dublin estate agents in the SCS, worried at property prices. In reality, the diverted business will be small in terms of Dublin's economy and will be less than a year's growth.

NewDubliner

Victor wrote:

How many people in IT get "wages"

I think that what is meant is that IT costs will increase.

The UK outsourced IT some years ago and this initiative brought huge increases in costs and still did not avert incredibly expensive failures.

To date, most experienced IT staff, expensively recruited and trained, have declined the government's demand that they leave Dublin.

The PSEU has asked government to comment on rumours of out-sourcing & the remarkable injection of "World Class Data Centers" into the Flynn commission's agenda. The answer was something less than "we'll get back to you".

If, when it produces its next report, the puppet Flynn commission decides to proceed with stripping all IT work from Dublin, I think it will be a very deliberate act, intended to remove CS workers from IT and setting the scene for out-sourcing & lucrative contracts for the private sector.

SkepticOne

NewDubliner wrote:

If, when it produces its next report, the puppet Flynn commission decides to proceed with stripping all IT work from Dublin, I think it will be a very deliberate act, intended to remove CS workers from IT and setting the scene for out-sourcing & lucrative contracts for the private sector.

You would think they would appreciate the skills of their own staff more. Apparently not though.

The_Conductor

SkepticOne wrote:

You would think they would appreciate the skills of their own staff more. Apparently not though.

Some departments (aka the entire cs) have a deliberate policy of not wanting to know what the skills of their staff are, along with apparent policies of attempting to place people in roles where they cannot make use of their skills and qualifications. This extends to Personnel departments refusing to keep copies of curriculum vitaes on people's personnel files.

This is nothing new.........

SkepticOne

smccarrick wrote:

Some departments (aka the entire cs) have a deliberate policy of not wanting to know what the skills of their staff are, along with apparent policies of attempting to place people in roles where they cannot make use of their skills and qualifications. This extends to Personnel departments refusing to keep copies of curriculum vitaes on people's personnel files.

So what is the great attraction to this employer who doesn't appreciate the staff's skills and moves them around the country without consultation? Great money, pension etc? Is it not a case of take the rough with the smooth, strike or walk out?

uncivilservant

SkepticOne wrote:

So what is the great attraction to this employer who doesn't appreciate the staff's skills and moves them around the country without consultation? Great money, pension etc? Is it not a case of take the rough with the smooth, strike or walk out?

In the civil service there's a big, big difference between the "employer" and "the manager".
Also, the key word in the quoted paragraph is "apparent". It's not deliberate, it's a result of "general" recruitment policies.

Dear lord, don't let it be deliberate....

uncivilservant

Victor wrote:

I imagine this piece eminated from among the Dublin estate agents in the SCS, worried at property prices.

Victor, "this piece" emanated from "Dr Brendan Williams, a lecturer in urban economics at the Dublin Institute of Technology.", as stated in the article, and not some estate agent worried about a glut of office accommodation forcing his bottom line down.

In reality, the diverted business will be small in terms of Dublin's economy and will be less than a year's growth.

Half a billion euro a year is a lot of money, regardless of how you cut it. Other sources have put the figure at closer to 1 billion, if i remember correctly.

NewDubliner

uncivilservant wrote:

Victor, "this piece
Half a billion euro a year is a lot of money, regardless of how you cut it. Other sources have put the figure at closer to 1 billion, if i remember correctly.

SkepticOne wrote:

Is it not a case of take the rough with the smooth, strike or walk out?

The cost of accomodation was heading for a billion & nobody has estimated the cost of retraining thousands of uprooted staff nor the IT systems that will fail due to the disruption.

It will be interesting to see if the budget will include these costs.

It's not just the staff who are affected who should be protesting, everyonewho pays tax in this country will be paying for this scheme either through increased taxes or loss of services.

E.K.

NewDubliner

uncivilservant wrote:

Half a billion euro a year is a lot of money, regardless of how you cut it. Other sources have put the figure at closer to 1 billion, if i remember correctly.

SkepticOne wrote:

Is it not a case of take the rough with the smooth, strike or walk out?

The cost of accomodation was heading for a billion & nobody has estimated the cost of retraining thousands of uprooted staff nor the IT systems that will fail due to the disruption.

So Dublin will lose 1 billion & the scheme will cost a further 2 billion?

It will be interesting to see if the budget will acknowledge these costs.

It's not just the staff who are affected who should be protesting, everyone who pays tax in this country will be paying for this scheme either through increased taxes or loss of services.
E.K.

SkepticOne

uncivilservant wrote:

In the civil service there's a big, big difference between the "employer" and "the manager".
Also, the key word in the quoted paragraph is "apparent". It's not deliberate, it's a result of "general" recruitment policies.

Dear lord, don't let it be deliberate....

NewDubliner was suggesting that it was deliberate:

"If, when it produces its next report, the puppet Flynn commission decides to proceed with stripping all IT work from Dublin, I think it will be a very deliberate act, intended to remove CS workers from IT and setting the scene for out-sourcing & lucrative contracts for the private sector"

and it was this that I was responding to. If so (and even if it is simple management incompetence), I think it is up to staff to take appropriate action either on an individual or collective basis. Problems of this sort are not unique to the civil service.

The_Conductor

SkepticOne wrote:

I think it is up to staff to take appropriate action either on an individual or collective basis. Problems of this sort are not unique to the civil service.

Would that extend to industrial action?
If so, given the wonderful spin doctoring that is rife, how would it be viewed by Joe Public?
We seem incapable of articulating our views ourselves, and our unions are ignoring us, because they have far more members down the country in favour of decentralisation than they have in Dublin who are being shat on from above.

The normal means of resolving industrial relations matters are not open to civil servants- something a lot of people are very unaware of- we do not have access to the Labour Relations Commission / Labour Courts - we are totally at the whim of political expediency. This is something that the public quite simply is unaware of, as no-one is interested in enlightening them.......

S.

SkepticOne

smccarrick wrote:

The normal means of resolving industrial relations matters are not open to civil servants- something a lot of people are very unaware of- we do not have access to the Labour Relations Commission / Labour Courts - we are totally at the whim of political expediency. This is something that the public quite simply is unaware of, as no-one is interested in enlightening them.......

With respect, I don't think there will be much interest among the public. Everyone has had difficulties with employers and has had to handle the situation in some way or other. When demands are made that are unacceptable, then it is up to individuals to decide whether it is worth going along with it (say, because pay, pension, benefits or whatever is good) or not going along with it. For the most part, people simply leave if they are not happy with the situation and take a more suitable job with a different employer.

ishmael whale

SkepticOne wrote:

Everyone has had difficulties with employers and has had to handle the situation in some way or other. When demands are made that are unacceptable, then it is up to individuals to decide whether it is worth going along with it (say, because pay, pension, benefits or whatever is good) or not going along with it.

You are right to say that Civil Service IR should not be the determining feature of the decentralisation programme, although you also need to be mindful that there is a body of protective legislation that applies to fair treatment of private sector workers.

In practical terms, all that seems to be holding up this ill conceived decentralisation plan is lack of volunteering civil servants. However, that is not the core reason this plan is dumb. The Irish Times editorial today properly sets the scene for this debate. I know its subscription, and I’m unsure as to how freely that material can be posted here, but for me the key points are:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/opinion/2004/1115/3643147801OPLEACITIES.html
“It is abundantly clear that the National Spatial Strategy was misguided in designating eight "gateways" and nine "hubs" outside Dublin, and that this diffusion of focus was compounded by the decentralisation programme, under which public servants would be dispersed to 53 locations in 25 counties. Not only is this completely daft in terms of efficient public administration, it also serves to undermine the regional capitals and their efforts to develop and prosper. ………. In the 1920s, Dublin accounted for 25 per cent of the State's population, but now it is 40 per cent. This is a direct result of the failure of successive governments to pursue balanced regional development, along the lines proposed by Colin Buchanan in the late 1960s.”

The more we take a barrel-of-pork approach to regional development, the more Dublin grows by default. The proposed decentralisation is bad for everyone. Its equally bad for strengthening the idea that a core objective of the civil service is the care and feeding of its staff. If the Government says one of the reasons to promote decentralisation is to facilitate staff who want to work in the regions, then they equally have to accommodate people who want to stay in Dublin. Its Alice in Wonderland logic, but there you go.

uncivilservant

SkepticOne wrote:

NewDubliner was suggesting that it was deliberate:

"If, when it produces its next report, the puppet Flynn commission decides to proceed with stripping all IT work from Dublin, I think it will be a very deliberate act, intended to remove CS workers from IT and setting the scene for out-sourcing & lucrative contracts for the private sector"

and it was this that I was responding to.

My apologies - i had assumed you were responding to the person you had quoted.

I believe smccarrick was speaking of the generality of the situation, whereas NewDubliner was stating a (commonly held) belief that decentralisation is being used as a method to introduce widespread outsourcing of IT by the back door.

If so (and even if it is simple management incompetence), I think it is up to staff to take appropriate action either on an individual or collective basis. Problems of this sort are not unique to the civil service.

Agreed. But as another poster has pointed out, the unions are taking a somewhat passive role in this affair.