gazzer wrote: The general take up of positions was low. In fact a lot of Civil Servants applied for areas outside Dublin in panic more than anything else. These idiots only served to inflate the numbers to a reasonable level.
Some buildings are been vacanted to allow the government to convert the ideally situated properties into apartments for TD's to use.
The buildings outside of Dublin that the Depts are moving to will be generally owed by TDs themselves or associates of TDs hence somebody makes a lot of money from leasing out these buildings.
bonkey wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed?
bonkey wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this basically an admission that the Civil Service is overstaffed? If so, then - given that you can't fire people - the only way to reduce staff numbers is through attrition...and in order to pave the way for that, you need to create "redundant" positions...positions that last only until the current person in it leaves (cause you can't fire them). Like I said...maybe I'm missing something, but thats how this is beginning to read to me. jc
gazzer wrote: There are going to be a lot of people (who remain in Dublin) sitting at desks twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do.
gazzer wrote: There are going to be a lot of people (who remain in Dublin) sitting at desks twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do. I know a lot of you will probably say that is what we do anyway but i definately dont want to end up like that. I am genuinely scared for where i am going to end up when the move to Kildare takes place
First wave of 4,000 civil servants on 'move' alert ANXIOUS ministers are poised to push through vastly scaled-down decentralisation plans before the Budget to avoid a damaging political backlash. They will rubber-stamp a report on the departments that should move first. That will spark the first wave of 4,000 civil servants and between 15 and 20 government departments and state agencies to new locations within two years. Ministers are desperate to sign off on the details before the Budget to minimise the political fallout from the considerably scaled-down version of the plan unveiled a year ago. In his final Budget last year, then Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy announced plans for 10,000 public and civil servants to move to 53 locations outside of Dublin. For several months former trade union leader Phil Flynn worked to devise a schedule for decentralisation. He has taken into account the numbers interested in moving and the range of properties available to the state to accommodate transfers outside Dublin. Mr Flynn will finalise his plans later this week and will present his recommendations to the Cabinet sub-committee dealing with decentralisation. His report will outline the government departments most ready to move. The Government expects he will suggest a series of phased moves involving a core group of government departments, possibly three or four, and anything up to 15 state agencies and sections of government departments. The most popular departments and agencies under the central applications facility were nearest Dublin. Mr Flynn's report is understood to recommend that the Government start decentralising those departments first as they are most sought after. Junior Finance Minister Tom Parlon - who is in charge of the project - said last night there had been "intense negotiations" in the last couple of days between agencies, departments, the OPW and the implementation group. "I would expect up to 20 departments and agencies, more departments than agencies, to be on the list." Others understood to be on the list are the departments of Social and Family Affairs and Communications, which will see 603 civil servants move to Drogheda. The first batch is also expected to include the Department of Defence, with 199 posts moving to Newbridge, the Revenue Commissioners, with 629 jobs going to Athy and Kildare town, the OPW with 328 staff to Trim in Co Meath, and the Prison Service, with 158 jobs going to Longford and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with 312 posts going to Carlow. Tom Felle and Brian Dowling
Experts to help civil servants with rural relocation DECENTRALISING civil servants are to be assisted in their move from the capital with advice on the local property market, the best creches available, and how their spouses can get a job in their new home towns. The Department of Finance has just advertised for the supply of "support services" for the 9,000 staff relocating under the Government's decentralisation plan. The advertisement on the Government website asks for expressions of interest to be sent in for auctioneering, legal, relocation, and other services to "support and assist staff relocating" to any of the 53 locations around the country. A spokesman for the Department explained yesterday that the advertisement had been placed as a result of a proposal from the top level Decentralisation Implementation Group, headed by Phil Flynn, to oversee the process of decentralisation. In a report last March the Group said that those moving would need advice on the sale or letting of their homes in Dublin and help to identify a suitable home in their new locations, as well as securing places in local schools and creches. It also proposed offering assistance in introducing the civil and public servants to the recreational activities offered in their new local communities such as sports clubs. Another proposal is to have a placement service for the spouses or partners of those relocating to find a suitable position in or near their new location. Meanwhile, Bus Éireann staff protested in Dublin yesterday to highlight the cost to their pension scheme of civil servants taking up posts in the new decentralised Bus Éireann offices in Cork, writes Gerald Flynn. The semi-state pension fund is already €73m in deficit and 10 civil servants to join would add up to €5m in additional liabilities according to the Transport Salaried Staff Association (TSSA) union. Civil servants with non-contributory pensions who transfer into Bus Éireann must join CIÉ's superannuation scheme but there is no provision for contributions for past service to transfer. "It is conservatively estimated that this will cost €500,000 per person per transfer," said TSSA official Colm Jordan. "We want to know where will this money come from and what will be the effect on the 1951 CIÉ superannuation scheme if it is to take the full liability of past service on board with no corresponding contribution." "Our pensions are at risk and we need answers," said Roger Hannon, TSSA Irish secretary. Alison O'Connor Political Correspondent
Parlon is planning to spend €815m of taxpayers’ money buying sites and building offices for up to 10,000 “decentralised” civil servants at more than 50 locations across the country. That is the equivalent of almost €90,000 per relocated employee, equal to three years’ wages for a typical worker in the manufacturing sector. The minister should wake up and smell the coffee. His “big idea” will put a dent in the exchequer’s finances — and experience suggests that it will cost a lot more than the amount budgeted for — and if the move is intended to stop Dublin’s advance it is doomed to failure.
Parlon believes his decentralising wheeze will be self-financing and plans to sell Dublin office property and engage in the early release of leases in order to pay for the dislocation required to move 10,000 public servants. Not only will it be considered a miracle if this project is brought in on budget but it must be stressed that some 4,000 of the “volunteers” who are willing to relocate are not even working in the Greater Dublin area, meaning the volume of “freed up“ space arising from Parlon’s caper will probably be a little more than 50% of what was intended when the idea was rubber-stamped in last year’s budget.
The nonsense of moving 10,000 civil servants — almost half of whom come from locations outside of Dublin — to 50 villages will not address planning problems in a country where employment is growing organically by 40,000 per year and where much of the employment growth is in the service sector in Dublin and surrounding counties.
Civil offices move to cost €900m: Parlon 27 October 2004 16:19 The Government expects to spend at least €900 million on providing office space for over 10,000 public servants being decentralised out of Dublin, the Minister for the Office of Public Works, Tom Parlon, has said. Mr Parlon told an Oireachtas committee that while precise figures were not possible at this early stage, the Government expects to spend up to €100 million to acquire sites in regional locations. It plans to spend a further €815 million to construct and fit out appropriate office accommodation, he told the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance & the Public Service. However, he noted that that figure does not include the cost of information and communication technology or other specialised requirements. Mr Parlon said that his department estimated that up to 210,000 square metres of office space would be needed for the entire decentralisation programme. However, the move outside Dublin would also free up over 200,000 square metres of office accommodation in the capital. He told the committee that he expected that some of that property would be disposed of by selling it, which could raise up to €400 million.
Sleepy wrote: I wonder what's making it so expensive to do? Relocation expenses perhaps? Or are the civil servants organising the decentralisation as useless as those they're moving? :rolleyes:
eoineen wrote: I work in local government, get 28 days paid holidays and work a 36 hour week exclusing lunchbreaks. I receive Sustaining Progress payments and benchmarking payments like thousands of others and having to accept overdue organisational change at a faster pace than most private industries, then agian there are two different motives.....profit and people . This is not an ideological viewpoint, merely fact
Victor wrote: Well at least lots of the lads down the golf club will be able to get secure jobs.
uncivilservant wrote: Office of Public Works - Trim - 328/378 While massively over subscribed for clerical grades (180 posts, 310 applications), OPW's Technical staff figures make for interesting reading. 8 Architects are required in Trim - zero applications. 22 Architectural Assistants - 5 applications. 4 Assistant Principal Architects needed - 1 applied. 21 Senior Architects - 2 applied. An assortment of 30 Engineer posts are needed - 11 applied. These are all highly skilled technical staff, with nowhere else to go.
NewDubliner wrote: Not what it seems, I'd say they're all from Revenue's Limerick office & already live near those towns. At least they may have suitable experience. If any estate agents are expecting to make a killing, they'll be disappointed. EK
uncivilservant wrote: Revenue Commissioners - Kilrush 50 / 70Revenue Commissioners - Newcastle West 50 / 109 All well and good
ionapaul wrote: As it currently stands, if the moves go ahead, the senior people stay in Dublin and cannot be let-go, surely the Government will still have to hire new (and probably inexperienced) people to fill all the vacant positions down the country? So is it on the cards that the numbers of civil servants employed will sky-rocket in the short-to-medium term, with a huge number in Dublin, employed but with no work to do?
ionapaul wrote: That is obscene, most experienced IT support staff are less than €300/day on contract.
Plus longer hours in the department I referred to is a result of the contract signed between my employers and the Government body, and not because we work harder and longer to make the existing employees look bad!
NewDubliner wrote: This is new, it wasn't part of the government's announcement. Can you tell us more? I'm sure the public would be concerned about the increase in IT costs & how decentralisation is being used as a smokescreen for privitisation of public administration. I'm familiar with the work of one of the out-sourcers. Whatever they might pay their staff, they cost the public a lot more money. The average charged is €1,000/daily for 'foot-soldiers', even more for those with talent. The long hours you quote mean nothing as this is a product of a culture of 'presentism' where they're expected to be seen working long hours so that the big fees can be justified. It's also part of the war of attrition being waged against the existing managers. They come in early to out-flank the host staff. It's well recognised that the contractors will do whatever they can to enlarge their beacheads in host clients & ensure that they cannot be dispensed with. Once in position, the fees increase even more. So before you start dissing public service IT staff, have a look around your own glasshouse first. EK
