abortion

D!ve^Bomb!

this has probably been done many times but none the less, wots everyones opinion on abortion, is it right/wrong??

KlodaX

I don't think its a matter of right and wrong.

its not up to us ... its not our UNBORN ...

un·born ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-bôrn)
adj.
Not yet born: an unborn child.
Not yet appeared; future: unborn inventions

... child ... I personally believe its up to the two people who are intending on bringing this new life upon us.

are they capable or not? *this includes adoption .. some people find this difficult*...

if they are aren't ... I don't feel its up to anyone else to judge ... or decide ....

its a tough enough decision without other people judging them.

I'm a hippy at heart and I believe in free will.

KlodaX

isn't this a fairly serious topic to be in after hours?

D!ve^Bomb!

i'm only asking peoples opinions, its only too serious if people take it too seriously..

eth0_

"It's only serious if people take it too seriously"

What other way is there to view abortion?
Someone pull this stupid thread. The abortion debate has been done to death (no pun intended) on here.

Big Ears

for those of you who voted no never its wrong. Do u belive a 13 year old girl who had been raped should have to give birth.You could say they could just give it up later but should a 13 year old have to go through that, i dont think so. But then again im a man so i dont know the physical/mental strains of child birth.

ixoy

I voted on this and wouldn't mind discussing it. However, it's not suited to After Hours remotely. Shouldn't this be on the Humanities board?

Ronaldo7

no never its just wrong.

Im not a girl but if i got raped and pregnant, i couldnt do it so im saying it.

Moriarty

Up to a certain timeframe it should be legal. I couldnt tell you a specific timeframe as i dont know half enough to make an informed decision, but it would be during the period where you can be pretty sure that it isnt 'conscious'.

Oh, and this is blatantly more suited to the humanities forum.

UnrealQueen

Im not a girl but if i got raped and pregnant, i couldnt do it so im saying it.

Your not a girl so how the hell would you know what you'd do if you were a girl and were raped and pregnant.

Amz

embee, myself and a number of others were discussing this on IRC the other night, I think it's unbelievable that most of the pro life/anti choice campaigners around are male!

Men, no matter how informed, educated, in touch with women can never EVER fully comprehend what it's like to become pregnant or even to have the prospect of becomming pregnant hanging over them from the time they hit puberty. It's an unbelievable thing to have to think about.

I am definitely pro choice, but even I have never had to face the difficult choices which face girls/women who become pregnant, so cannot even now make a decision as to my exact stance.

I just think that it this debate which really highlights the ignorance of certain communities, they'll use any argument to try and shock people into submission as it were, they are unwilling to listen to fact or relise that every case is different and should be dealt with accordinly.

Meh!

Too tired...

Will finish later.

Ronaldo7

Originally posted by UnrealQueen
Your not a girl so how the hell would you know what you'd do if you were a girl and were raped and pregnant.

Ive known someone in this instance. So shut the hell up.

Ronaldo7

And may i ask who are the diseases who voted circumstances do not matter - heartless bastards.

kmart6

I think under certain circumstances it is ok i.e. Rape


I have a friend who was basically raped during the summer,the man gave her drink then brought here somewhere,she did'nt no where and when she woke up in the morning she did'nt know what had happened to her,but turns out her friends were in the same building.But the man txted her later to tell her to get the morning after pill

UnrealQueen

Originally posted by Ronaldo7
Ive known someone in this instance. So shut the hell up.

Oh well you obviously know all about women then and how they think and act in all circumstances of their lives. You know all about period pains, pregnancy and childbirth. Congrats.

passive

Ive known someone in this instance. So shut the hell up.

and that affects what she said...how exactly? did your friend go through with the pregnancy? (i'll understand if you don't want to answer in detail, its hardly the kind of personal info that should be yelled out in place of an argument on an issue)

i used to be strongly pro-life myself..then i grew up a little bit and realised how arrogant and oppressive it is to force anybody to have a child when their life is in danger or the pregnancy was forced upon them (and probably other circumstances too, but they're just the two most obvious examples)

Sarky

Hardly a pleasent choice, but can be a necessary one, I would presume.

Agent Smith

i belive that, abortion is murder and murder is murder....



just my 0.02€

Ronaldo7

Originally posted by passive
and that affects what she said...how exactly? did your friend go through with the pregnancy? (i'll understand if you don't want to answer in detail, its hardly the kind of personal info that should be yelled out in place of an argument on an issue)

i used to be strongly pro-life myself..then i grew up a little bit and realised how arrogant and oppressive it is to force anybody to have a child when their life is in danger or the pregnancy was forced upon them (and probably other circumstances too, but they're just the two most obvious examples)

She went through with the pregnancy and gave it up for adoption. She said she couldnt go ahead with an abortion. She couldnt have that on her conscience for the rest of her life. So she gave it up for adoption. Thats why im saying i totally admire her and think that its wrong to do so. This girl was only 16 at the time. And on top of that, her mother had died during the year in a car crash. So not only did she have to live with the fact her mother died, but she got raped a few months after and had a baby and gave it up for adoption. It takes a strong girl to do it. But she did it...

Ronaldo7

Originally posted by UnrealQueen
Oh well you obviously know all about women then and how they think and act in all circumstances of their lives. You know all about period pains, pregnancy and childbirth. Congrats.

No i dont. This girl did though. And by the looks of things is clearly a stronger individual than you can ever hope to be.

Amz

I really don't think you're in a position to comment on UnrealQueen's merits as a person Ronaldo7.

Big al

I have had two friends who were raped, very nasty business. As a bloke who will never carry a kid I cannot tell a girl that she shoud carry a baby. Both got "up the duff" and both aborted I cant balme either, you cant blame them for not wanting to carry the memory around for 9 months neither do you want a kid doorstepping you after 20 years asking "who's my daddy"

Ronaldo7

Im out of this topic now. Its such a heated topic for afterhours anyway.

UnrealQueen

Originally posted by Amz
I really don't think you're in a position to comment on UnrealQueen's merits as a person Ronaldo7.

I agree and thanx Amz:)

kmart6

ohhhh noooo,there joining forces,theres going to be a rebellion within boards

Mr Grumpy

It's an interesting topic. Most views concentrate on the female perspective - and I have no qualms with that, but few consider the male aspect. What if a one night stand or acquaintance or girlfriend or yours became pregnant by you and wanted to abort? How would you feel? Relieved? Glad the decision was taken out of your hands? Or aggrieved because you wanted a say and were not allowed? It seems that men have to pay the "penalty" when women decide to keep the child but have very little say when they decide to abort. I was just curious if anyone has been in this situation before and had anything to say.

(Before anyone asks - I'm not trolling or baiting any feminists - it's a genuine question)

D!ve^Bomb!

Originally posted by Mr Grumpy
It seems that men have to pay the "penalty" when women decide to keep the child but have very little say when they decide to abort.

mr grumpy makes an excellent point here, well said;)

Amz

Newband, when you say that the girl becomes pregnant by you as a result of a one night stand or whatever this a case of where the prenancy was unplanned. It think it would be difficult for a man to expect that the girl keep the baby. Granted he is entitled to certain paternal rights but I feel in this case he hadn't planned this baby and as such gives up some of these paternal rights. It's very unrealistic if the girl is physically, psychologically or otherwise not prepared for motherhood to expect her to carry a child for 9months and then (as usually happens) take responsibility for the majority of it's care and upbringing.

Clearly a one night stand situation is not a stable relationship and thus not a suitable one to bring a child into.

Woden

i haven't read the other posts but i know where i stand on this issue, kill it if you want to, i wouldn't want a kid ****ing up my life when i didn't want it.

saying that i don't believe it should be completely a womans choice if i did decide i wanted the child, i know she carries it and all but so what thats not my fault

Mr Grumpy

Amz touches on a subject I've often thought about.

Perhaps the legal eagles amoungst us can answer this question...

In a consenting situation whereby a single man gets single woman pregnant (be it as a one night stand or relationship and nobody agrees that a child is the ultimate fulfilment)

What are the legal rights and/or obligations of both parties?

No cod opinions please - this is aimed solely at people in the legal profession.

(This is not a troll nor am I taking the piss - I'm genuinely interested)

Edited cos I meant Amz - sorry.

Woden

well its quite simple women has all the rights, right to travel etc. she can do what ever she wants, if they want to get rid of it off to england it is

Ronaldo7

dataisgod, your so blunt about the whole thing. Can you at least show some consideration? I mean i respect your opinion although i strongly disagree with it, but can you not be so blunt?

I know i said id stay away but i couldnt...:rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

Abortions should be mandatory!


Well, that's an obvious troll, hope some of you got hot under the collar about it though.

But I do beleive abortions should indeed be legal, and up to the parents. Is it right to force a woman through the full 9 months of pregnancy over something unwanted? I don't beleive so... And for the most part, I dont think we here can understand what it would be liking squeezing one out, so I think it should be up to the mother whether or not she wants to go through that, and at least wait untill she's ready to have one that was planned.

I don't think any of these people here who are preaching against abortion have even considered if it is right to force a woman to have an unwanted pregnancy, and to force an unwanted child into life. It's just not cricket, me lad.

simu

I say it's up to a woman to chose what to do.

If, at this moment in my life I got pregnant, I'd have an abortion. Maybe it's weak or egotistical but I honestly don't care - I have more important things to do than be a walking incubator for nine months.

embee

Originally posted by Amz
embee, myself and a number of others were discussing this on IRC the other night, I think it's unbelievable that most of the pro life/anti choice campaigners around are male!

Men, no matter how informed, educated, in touch with women can never EVER fully comprehend what it's like to become pregnant or even to have the prospect of becomming pregnant hanging over them from the time they hit puberty. It's an unbelievable thing to have to think about.

I am definitely pro choice, but even I have never had to face the difficult choices which face girls/women who become pregnant, so cannot even now make a decision as to my exact stance.

I just think that it this debate which really highlights the ignorance of certain communities, they'll use any argument to try and shock people into submission as it were, they are unwilling to listen to fact or relise that every case is different and should be dealt with accordingly.

Im totally with Amz. Walking down O Connell St. on a Saturday is stressful enough with the throngs of people, and then you pass the GPO and there they are, the pro-lifers, with their huge pictures of aborted foetuses plastered all over the walls. And theyre shouting the odds and screeching about murder. All the while, young children are walking past that and seeing those images. And it isnt like it can be avoided - they make enough noise to make sure that people look at them. I remember in college, a pro lifer telling me that my views on abortion (which are pro choice) are no better than Myra Hindley & Ian Brady murdering children on the moors.

A woman who has an abortion is not a child killer. She is not a monster like Myra Hindley or Ian Huntley or any other child killer out there. It is a personal choice that a man will NEVER understand, no matter if they knew someone that went through it or they had a partner that had an abortion. Most women that have an abortion have to put themselves through mental anguish about it before it happens. It is not an easy decision to make and there isnt a woman on this planet who has just walked into a clinic and said 'One abortion please' and thought nothing of it afterwards.
Men throwing in their two cents doesnt help.

Pro choice all the way, and it should be exclusively a womans choice.
No matter how much a man promises to stand by his woman, its her life that is impacted on more. Always has been, always will be.

Johnny Versace

Most of my female friends have had abortions, but I personally think it is horrible. I'd prefer if it didn't exist (except for extreme cases.)

DMT

Debating abortion is pointless, either you're for it or against it.

I look forward to the day when medical science has advanced to a stage where foetuses can be removed from the womb and grown to full term in an artificial womb, thus making abortion obsolete.

Sadly, this may take centuries rather than decades...

D!ve^Bomb!

Originally posted by simu
If, at this moment in my life I got pregnant, I'd have an abortion. Maybe it's weak or egotistical but I honestly don't care - I have more important things to do than be a walking incubator for nine months.

i agree that in extreme circumstances(rape) that abortion is ok, but, if u were to get pregnant by other means, e.g, lack of responsability like no protection etc, then i think it is pure selfishness to just abort, if u can be irresponsible enough to not wear protection then u should just face up to it and deal with the consequences, even if u dont want the baby there are plenty of women who cant have babies and would gladly adopt...

its not the baby's fault that u make mistakes by opening your legs!!

Simu, this is not aimed directly at you, i'm just usin ur post as i'm sure a lot of people have the same opinion as u;)

Töpher

Originally posted by simu
I say it's up to a woman to chose what to do.

Exactly. Noone has the right to tell you what to do with your body.

In the words of the legendary Bill Hicks: If you're so pro-life why not go picket a cemetery.

secret_squirrel

I'd say its 99.9% the woman's choice and decision whether to abort should be completely up to her. She will be the one that carries the child to term for 9 months or so. I have very little if any sympathy for those men who think that 10 mins of sperm donation qualify them to tell a woman what she can so with her own body. Its the same reason why Im pro-choice - ultimately a woman should be able to choose what happens to her own body. Her wishes should always come first - no matter what the wishes of any man or society in general.

And DMT you're being completely naive if you think artifical wombs would replace the need for abortions - thousands of children already spend their lives in childrens homes because they cant find adoptive parents - and who would pay for the kids upbringings??? Why should the state pay for every case where a fetus is not aborted to save the feelings of the Pro Life lobby and their sympathisers?

Amz

Originally posted by newband
, if u were to get pregnant by other means, e.g, lack of responsability like no protection etc, then i think it is pure selfishness to just abort, if u can be irresponsible enough to not wear protection then u should just face up to it

So you're saying that because of irresponsible sexual practices i.e. not wearing a condom that a woman should have to carry a baby for nine months, have the baby and most likely raise it?

This point annoys me because
a) It takes two to tango so who's responsibilty is it to make sure that the condom is worn? If it's both then why should the woman "suffer" more as a result of the lack of responsiblity from either?

b) I think the deciision to have a child is one which many people labour over and deal with at one point and I know of many who would put off having a child because their circustances aren't condusive to bringing a child into this world i.e. lack of proper home, no regular income to provide for the child etc.

I think it's selfish to expect a woman to have a baby in both cases if she's not fully happy to do so.

It's selfish on the part of the parents to bring a child into the world if they're not prepared to care for it 100% as best they can etc.

Silent Grape

exclusively a womans choice? eh, but the baby is half the fathers? i think that is an extremely selfish 'its my body so screw u' attitude.

ive been raped, didnt get pregnant thank the lord. however i think id still go ahead with the pregnancy, but give it up for adoption if i cud. as newband said, its not the childs fault that people are irrespnsible, its also not the childs fault that its father was a prick.
of course circumstances matter, this cannot be a black and white issue at all.

a thirteen yr old girl gets raped and is pregnant, OF COURSE the option of abortion should be open to her. her body wud be too immature, not to mention her emotional maturity. rape alone does not give u the right to abort. i was 17 when i was raped, i was mature and capable enough to go ahead with the pregnany had it happened and make any descisions about adoption etc.

i think it should be legal within a certain timeframe.
and of course the fathers have to have a say in what happenes. i hate this attitude among women.

yes no one has the right to 'tell you' what to do with your body. of course i agree with this, but when something of yours is inside that body, men have every right to feel strongly about what happens to it.

of course the woman is more connected to being pregnant/getting an abortion (obviously) but that doesnt mean u can exclude the other maker of ur baby entirely.

Amz

I don't know if I said the father should have no say if it came accross like that I apologise. I do feel that it should be discussed with the father and all the options considered I don't however feel that just because the father might want the child that the woman should have to carry it to term, particularly if she's not confident that the father will be the one taking ultimate responsibility for it's care after it's born.

I feel the choice should be the one that is best for all concerned, but in particular the mother as there is no point in her resenting the baby as this may cause her both mental and physical distress and that will undoubtadly affect the baby during the prgnancy and afterwards.

Not really in the mood at the moment for this type of discussion

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by Silent Grape
of course the woman is more connected to being pregnant/getting an abortion (obviously) but that doesnt mean u can exclude the other maker of ur baby entirely.

Ok... How much can the father offer the mother or child except emotional and financial support. Is it enough to warrent the choice on the fathers point of view?...

The mother has to carry the child for 9 months, and pregnancy is a very tough job from what i have seen of it. Now depending on the circumstances, the mother may not be in a position to care for the child and may not want the child to grow up with the a preconception* of being orphaned....

In my honest opinion I have nothing to say on the matter except that I hope I never have to make that choice or influence someone elses choice on the matter


*who knows what the future may hold

uberwolf

two to tango but one to decide?

I'm uncommitted on this poll, I don't think I'd be happy with my partner going through with this, but I wouldn't judge a girl for having it done. So i guess that leaves me pro-choice and my choice would be no.

Johnny Versace

A friend of mine is coming to Ireland from the states and I was shopping around for hotel prices for her. I wanted to check out a city hotel website...

Some sick fúck has registered this domain and redirected it to pictures of aborted babies. I hate that shít.

uberwolf

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
A friend of mine is coming to Ireland from the states and I was shopping around for hotel prices for her. I wanted to check out the Clarence Hotel website... I assumed it is*yoink* [/url]

Some sick fúck has registered this domain and redirected it to pictures of aborted babies. I hate that shít.

I just tried it and didn't see that, just a file does not exist on this server and generic search window thingy instead...

*just manually entered link and found it. nice. surely the clarence hotelcan do something about that?

simu

i agree that in extreme circumstances(rape) that abortion is ok, but, if u were to get pregnant by other means, e.g, lack of responsability like no protection etc, then i think it is pure selfishness to just abort, if u can be irresponsible enough to not wear protection then u should just face up to it and deal with the consequences, even if u dont want the baby there are plenty of women who cant have babies and would gladly adopt...

its not the baby's fault that u make mistakes by opening your legs!!

I do use contraception - I don't think an abortion would be fun but I'm not gonna set my education, career and general life back a year if it happens that I still get pregnant despite using contraception! The body undergoes huge changes in pregnancy - it's not just your stomach getting a bit flabby for a few months!

Opening your legs is a mistake? People should only have sex to breed then? Sorry, don't think that's a reasonable solution.

I don't know why ppl get so emotional about a little clump of flesh with human DNA, I really don't! Death is all around us. If you're really all that upset about it, send money to orphans in 3rd world countries or to cancer research groups or something!

Amz

That "It's your own fault for opening your legs" comment is another example of how ignorant some people are! Gah! That type of statement places the "blame" solely on the woman which is exactly why so many women would be of the opinion, "Why the Fuck should I consult the "father" on this matter?"

I dunno some people just can't seem to get past the fact that a woman doesn't just get pregnant on her own!!

tinkerbell

I'm pro-choice, I hate seein those pro-life people near the Central Bank yelling out crap, sometimes I feel like jus goin over there and clobbering them!!

Fine if you are pro-life, well that's your decision, but you jus gotta accept that others don't / never will see your point of view. I think it should be up to the "parents" of the unborn if they want to have an abortion. They shouldn't have to go through with the pregnancy jus coz the state or whoever doesn't agree with it. You shouldn't have to be forced into havin a child.

Welcome to the 21st Century people - we ain't back in the stone age or some krazy religious era!

User45701

The way i see it is if the child will ahve a hoorible life , due to illness or if the child can not be suported then it is ok in my view, the poll seems to be going twards yes.

Can i ask a question. Are any of you perents? If so would you agree with your unborn-grandchild being aborted?

Other Q if any of you women became pregnant now would you abort?