DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

L1011

byrnefm wrote: »

I noticed the following snippet on http://www.wohnort.demon.co.uk/DAB/ :



Does this mean that given a decent Band-III antenna, one would have a decent chance of picking up the BBC on DAB? On the other hand, the BBC stations came in poorly in Stillorgan, though I've no idea which British transmitter I was picking them up from. (That was with the ordinary antenna that came with my desktop radio).

Getting nothing off the side lobe of my decent Band III antenna here - its pointing at Three Rock... have to realign my satellite dish during the week so I'll be up and about the aerial gear so I may give it a go.

More Music

The site has some new info: http://www.digitalradio.ie/

flogen

More Music wrote: »

The site has some new info: http://www.digitalradio.ie/

Wow... the new site is all over the place in terms of design. Even the logo at the top left looks wrong... as if it had had its background colour changed from black to navy without the edges being tidied up.

marclt

As RTE have extend their DTT trial to Mt. Leinster, is there any chance that the DAB trial will be extended further south and west?

Zaphod

Are there any whisperings about what other stations will be available on DAB e.g. NPR or WRN? What is the max number of stations they could transmit at standard bitrates?

One of the things I always thought would be useful on radio would be the audio from RTÉ1/2/TG4. We used to have an old radio which was able to receive the audio from the TV channels (harmonics?) with perfect clarity - although it probably helped that we were working at high elevation and could directly see the mast on Mullaghanish.

L1011

RTE's mux is full
The commercial mux might be able to carry one more station. Maybe.

More Music

The commercial Mux is also full. No spare capacity on either.

marclt

More Music wrote: »

The commercial Mux is also full. No spare capacity on either.

What I want to know if how did Radio Kerry get on there???

L1011

It wasn't full before they went on, obviously.

watty

Anyone using the €139 actually portable DAB/FM evoke in HMV?

L1011

I'm using an Evoke 1XT in the kitchen, a Pure One in one of the bedrooms and a Morphy Richards DRM in my own room. If you mix the first two together - body off the 1XT, tuner off the One, you get the DAB/FM Evoke

More Music

marclt wrote: »

What I want to know if how did Radio Kerry get on there???

I presume the same way all the other stations got on there. And before the mux was full!

Antenna

I see Sherwoods in Kilkenny have Roberts radios with DAB for sale! No hope of DAB reception in that area though!

marclt

More Music wrote: »

I presume the same way all the other stations got on there. And before the mux was full!

Aren't all the other stations Dublin/north east stations... which makes sense!

Maybe it's a way of keeping the ex pats up to date with news from the Kingdom... great station btw. Really reflects Kerry life.....

watty

Explain to me again why we are fiddling in 2008 with a rollout of a obsolete tech with little or no advantage over FM?

Why not DVB-h, Dab+ or DRM+ for Digtial Radio?
Why bother at all?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/28/germany_switches_dab_off/

DMC

I suppose its down to what the Brits have done, and the supply of radios.

watty

it's a while since we stopped parity with Sterling

Obviously RTE must be funded by Homebase, Maplin, Currys/Dixon/PCWorld etc

More Music

marclt: Aren't all the other stations Dublin/north east stations... which makes sense!

Ah no. 2FM, Radio 1 and Today FM etc. are national stations, not Dublin stations. The DAP services (All 80's and Mocha) don't serve any franchise area, they're digital only services. So by your reckoning they shouldn't be on DAB or either should 2XM and the other RTE digital services.

Also, if that's the case none of the Dublin only stations should be on the North East Mux (Clermont Carn). LMFM only on the North East mux!

The DAB trial has nothing to do with existing FM station boundaries. Hope that clarifies it for you.

In 2008 we should be adopting DAB+, but it won't happen. Cheap and plentiful supply of radios from UK distributors. And you have to consider the border counties. They would then have 2 systems.

Also, I understand some of the transmission kit goes back a few years when RTE were going to pilot DAB originally. I think it got sidelined with the proposed sell-off of RTE networks to a private company.

fm_radio

Quick question...
What DAB recievers are known to be very sensitive and have an external aerial socket???

i.e. you can unscrew the telescopic whip from the socket or have a seperate socket. I had a look at a lot of the recievers out there and it's not obvious if you can plug in an external aerial or not.

(...by the way, before someone points it out...I know, I know...I'm in Cork and outside a DAB area :rolleyes: )

DMC

More Music wrote: »

LMFM only on the North East mux!

'fraid not. There is no North East mux. Its two national muxes.

More Music

You are correct, at least one of those frequencies has been cleared for national roll-out.

I should have said the muxes serving the North East, not the North East muxes.

DMC

fm_radio wrote: »

Quick question...
What DAB recievers are known to be very sensitive and have an external aerial socket???

i.e. you can unscrew the telescopic whip from the socket or have a seperate socket. I had a look at a lot of the recievers out there and it's not obvious if you can plug in an external aerial or not.

(...by the way, before someone points it out...I know, I know...I'm in Cork and outside a DAB area :rolleyes: )

My old trusty Roberts RD-5 (pictured near the start of the thread!) has an unscrewable telescopic aerial. For newer models, all of the Roberts manuals are online, www.robertsradio.co.uk so you can check and see if the aerial is removable, depending on the model.

Pretty sure that the Pure Evoke series is the same.

DMC

Just drifting back up this thread, just to completely underline, LMFM is not on DAB.

DMC

Interesting piece here, it seems that Digital One, the commerical mux in the UK is more like MW in London ten years ago.

There are also some other pieces on DAB on the Guardian website, including views on their blog

Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jan/29/radio.digitaltvradio
* John Plunkett
* guardian.co.uk,
* Tuesday January 29 2008

Digital audio broadcasting (DAB) may end up to radio what Betamax was to video, warns a report published today.

The report, by media and telecoms specialist Enders Analysis, said the launch of the second national commercial digital radio multiplex, headed by Channel 4, might exacerbate the problems rather than solve them, and warned that media regulator Ofcom would face a public outcry if DAB failed.

Enders Analysis added that the high cost of DAB transmission and slow growth in revenue had combined to undermine confidence in the new medium and led to the closure of a string of national digital stations.

Today's report urged the radio sector to "stop continually beating its chest in public about the wonders of DAB and instead partake in an honest industry debate about the future of the platform".

"The exodus of stations from the DAB platform is starting to look like a stampede," said the Enders report, written by Grant Goddard.

"With three of the largest radio groups having reduced their commitment to the DAB platform in recent months, their stations having been replaced by a mix of ethnic, religious and non-commercial broadcasters, the future health of the DAB platform must be under question."

Goddard's report ends with a chilling prediction from Richard Wheatley, the chief executive of the Local Radio Company, to analysts last month: "DAB is the Betamax of radio."

National digital stations that have closed include GCap Media's Core, UBC's Oneword and Virgin Radio's Groove. GCap's Chill and Fun Radio have also been scaled back, while Virgin scrapped plans for a new national digital station, Virgin Radio Viva.

The report said the launch of digital stations such as Polish Radio London, Rainbow Radio and BFBS Radio, owned by the British Armed Forces, had worrying echoes of the decline of the AM waveband at the end of the last century.

"The DAB platform of 2008, particularly in London, is already starting to resemble the AM platform of 1998, suggesting that DAB might have already been written off by the sector as a means to reach the 'mass market' audiences that national advertisers desire from the medium," it added.

Goddard said the launch of the second national commercial digital multiplex, headed by Channel 4, was unhelpful at a time when the first - run by Digital One - was struggling to fill its capacity.

"Channel 4 is faced with the task of imminently launching a brand new DAB multiplex in the middle of a snowstorm around the future of the whole platform," his report stated.

"By the end of 2007, it was evident that the 'masterplan' for DAB which the radio industry had clung to since the mid-1990s was simply not going to work.

"The closure of two longstanding national digital-only stations - Core and Oneword - combined with reductions in the service of several other digital brands helped to crystallise the problems: too much spectrum, not enough consumer hardware takeup, and not enough enthusiasm for DAB from listeners or advertisers."

Goddard said the issue of DAB overcapacity had to be "urgently resolved" by Ofcom, Digital One, Channel 4 and transmission business Arqiva. He added: "Put bluntly, can the UK commercial radio sector really support two DAB multiplexes?

"Ofcom faces a public outcry if the DAB platform were to fail, with owners of the 6.45 million DAB receivers sold to date demanding a refund of their purchases (remember ITV Digital?)."

A working group on the future of digital radio set up by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport was due to meet for the first time this week.

RTÉ Pulse: Dave

http://www.worlddab.org/upload/uploaddocs/German_Press_Release_Final_English.pdf

Radio|Man

watty wrote: »

Explain to me again why we are fiddling in 2008 with a rollout of a obsolete tech with little or no advantage over FM?

Why not DVB-h, Dab+ or DRM+ for Digtial Radio?
Why bother at all?

Seven and a half million DAB (Not DAB+) receivers sold in the UK, with five hundred thousand of them sold at Christmas this year. Hardly obsolete !!

I'm not going to repeat the argument about DVB-h, DAB+ and DRM but as you will find out if you search the forum, there are very few manufacturers supporting these formats.

Little or no advantage over FM ??? Come now, Here's a few I can think of:

88-108 is full ! Game over, no more room.

Noise floor on digital is far superior to that of fm, but that actually doesn't matter a toss as its been proven time and time again that the majority of punters care not for audio quality.

TMC-Traffic message channel support for your DAB tuner.

Metadata-streaming of "Now Playing" track and channel information.

Go search !!

Antenna

Radio|Man wrote: »

Seven and a half million DAB (Not DAB+) receivers sold in the UK, with five hundred thousand of them sold at Christmas this year. Hardly obsolete !!

But what about the rest of Europe?, nearly every other European country seems to be on a go slow in relation to DAB - is seems to be that they are waiting for DAB+ ?

Radio|Man wrote: »

Little or no advantage over FM ??? Come now, Here's a few I can think of:

88-108 is full ! Game over, no more room.

in this country the FM band is not, as of yet, fully used.
Many of the 'digital only' stations in the UK are in trouble - are digital only stations going to be viable in this country with a smaller population base?
I notice that some planned additional FM stations in this country have been deferred (not because of the FM band being full).

Radio|Man wrote: »

Noise floor on digital is far superior to that of fm, but that actually doesn't matter a toss as its been proven time and time again that the majority of punters care not for audio quality.

FM can perform far better than most punters allow - but they use poor quality receivers, wrong or broken aerials, etc. Noise floor doesn't of course equate to overall quality.

Radio|Man wrote: »

TMC-Traffic message channel support for your DAB tuner.

RTE and others don't bother utilising the RDS Traffic Announcement (TA) function which is already in practically every car nowadays - so are they going to give much attention to TMC ?

Radio|Man wrote: »

Metadata-streaming of "Now Playing" track and channel information.

possible already (and done by some stations in the UK) with RDS Radiotext. But car radios don't have Radiotext as it is considered distracting to drivers. I assume DAB car radios won't display streaming text either?

marclt

Antenna wrote: »

But what about the rest of Europe?, nearly every other European country seems to be on a go slow in relation to DAB - is seems to be that they are waiting for DAB+ ?

This is true, but maybe not every other country has the same licensing system employed by the UK.... Ofcom are pretty proactive... so too were some of the big media players.

Antenna wrote: »

in this country the FM band is not, as of yet, fully used.
Many of the 'digital only' stations in the UK are in trouble - are digital only stations going to be viable in this country with a smaller population base?
I notice that some planned additional FM stations in this country have been deferred (not because of the FM band being full).

It is getting close... not helped by the BCI giving commercial stations covering pretty small areas more frequencies than they might need.

Antenna wrote: »

RTE and others don't bother utilising the RDS Traffic Announcement (TA) function which is already in practically every car nowadays - so are they going to give much attention to TMC ?

Shame really... it is a very useful system... but I wonder how many people actually realise it is there on their hifi? The station name is about the only thing most people think RDS is about. BBC Radio 4 has always used this system... including RDS text and programme type for things like the shipping forecast! Cannot see why RTE cannot give a more detailed info about the programme type - especially on RTE1...

Antenna wrote: »

possible already (and done by some stations in the UK) with RDS Radiotext. But car radios don't have Radiotext as it is considered distracting to drivers. I assume DAB car radios won't display streaming text either?

I doubt even DAB receivers in cars would be able to have scrolling text. Do you know if any data providers use the TMC faciliity on RDS to provide traffic info to subscribers (like haulage firms etc). I know trafficlink do this in the UK.

John mac

Radio|Man wrote: »

:

88-108 is full ! Game over, no more room.


!!

not outside Dublin I get 5 stations if i twidle with the aerial a bit.

is dab going to go nationwide (before 2020)?:rolleyes:

musa

Radio|Man wrote: »

Seven and a half million DAB (Not DAB+) receivers sold in the UK, with five hundred thousand of them sold at Christmas this year. Hardly obsolete !!

I'm not going to repeat the argument about DVB-h, DAB+ and DRM but as you will find out if you search the forum, there are very few manufacturers supporting these formats.

Little or no advantage over FM ??? Come now, Here's a few I can think of:

88-108 is full ! Game over, no more room.

Noise floor on digital is far superior to that of fm, but that actually doesn't matter a toss as its been proven time and time again that the majority of punters care not for audio quality.

TMC-Traffic message channel support for your DAB tuner.

Metadata-streaming of "Now Playing" track and channel information.

Go search !!

Tangent DAB/FM Tuner,Currys,
Log Periodic DAB Aerial,Wide Band Amp,Maplin,
Equals Forty DAB Stations North and South.
Quality would blow your socks off.Get on with it.South Down