DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

L1011

Choice seems to be testing fully now, proper sound levels, station idents and even DLS Its actually a fairly long ident sequence...

L1011

RTE Choice appears to be carrying Liveline or a Liveline-alike right now, no idea what it actually is...

L1011

Also, when did Spin 1038 appear on? Its up and live (unlike FM104 - still!)

byrnefm

MYOB wrote:

Also, when did Spin 1038 appear on? Its up and live (unlike FM104 - still!)

I retuned on Friday and it wasn't there then so maybe appeared just yesterday?

I really wonder what the story is with FM 104...

Mayo Exile

2 page feature on DAB radio in "The Ticket" supplement in today's Irish Times. (Friday 27 July).

DMC

And DAB radios make their appearance in the new Irish Argos catalogue, 'cept all the info is for UK stations....

Geemac

There appears to be dropping out on all the RTE stations from CC today. Has anyone else notice this?

Also is DAB RTE the only service available from CC as I don't see any listing for Today FM, FM104 or 98FM from this site. Are they Dublin only even though they are on the DTT trial from CC.

L1011

Yeah, only Mux 1 is on CC, I've no idea if its dropping out or not - I get destructive interference from it here (not bad enough to lose signal mind) and I've noticed nothing different.

SPDUB

DMC wrote:

And DAB radios make their appearance in the new Irish Argos catalogue, 'cept all the info is for UK stations....

But still none in stock in any of the Dublin stores.

L1011

FM104 now live and doesn't sound like badly off FM like before

RTE Digital Radio Sport now working as expected with jingles, on-air title is now RTE DAB Sport.

Kintarō Hattori

SPDUB wrote:

But still none in stock in any of the Dublin stores.

http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/test_new/search.cgi?q=dab

There are several decent quality DAB radio's there.

sudzs

Mayo Exile wrote:

2 page feature on DAB radio in "The Ticket" supplement in today's Irish Times. (Friday 27 July).

Yes! I read that and got so excited I ran out and bought a DAB radio expecting to pick up all the BBCs and more from Norn Iron as well as all the RTEs, Newstalk etc.

But fekkit anyway because all I'm getting in Dundalk is the RTE stations. NOTHING else.

Am bitterly disappointed... :mad:

DMC

In the Irish Times eyes, if its in Dublin, its nationwide.

Thinking back to last year, thinks have moved on quite a lot. It makes for the lead-up to Christmas interesting.

L1011

Pure One/Evoke/Chronos now in stock in HMV. Got a Pure One and its as deaf as a doorpost compared to the Evoke, have to go in to the attic to get signal on it... think I'll use it in the office (in Tallaght)....

flogen

DMC wrote:

In the Irish Times eyes, if its in Dublin, its nationwide.

In fairness the article did make clear that the thing was still in trial-mode, but with that ending in November I doubt the rest of the country has too long to wait for some kind of DAB service.

Sudzs, consider it an investment!

DMC

flogen wrote:

In fairness the article did make clear that the thing was still in trial-mode, but with that ending in November I doubt the rest of the country has too long to wait for some kind of DAB service.

Hard to say what is planned for in the future past November. The main sites (Truskmore, Spur Hill, Mullaghanish, Cairn Hill etc) would have to be turned on fairly quickly post "offical" launch. From Aertel p169, its pretty clear there is transmitter work going on at the main sites this summer, what's not clear is if they are doing any DAB work.

The article didn't make it clear that the Dublin ILR's and Today FM unt Newstalk were on Three Rock only.... Its just me in Irish Times grumble mode.... like their current feature, August Life... "ooh, nothings happening in Dublin, lets go down the country and see what the yokels are at."

Charles Slane

eo980 wrote:

http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/test_new/search.cgi?q=dab

There are several decent quality DAB radio's there.

They all seem very expensive. And I don't know where Peats think we're living...

The Revo Uno is a wonderful little piece of kit. It's a multi-talented wonder. First off it's a DAB radio allowing you access to hundreds of stations broadcasting in glorious DAB digital quality.

Hundreds of stations???

SPDUB

Another item from Sunday Tribune

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/Business/Business%20Week&id=75198&SUBCAT=Tribune/Business&SUBCATNAME=Business

RTE applies to Comreg for permanent national digital radio licence

Ken Griffin

STATE broadcaster RTE has applied to communications regulator Comreg for a permanent nationwide digital radio licence with a view to launching a Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) service which could eventually replace standard FM broadcasts.

It has also emerged that the broadcaster has begun experimenting with another digital radio system, Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM), which is seen by some as the digital successor to standard AM and long wave broadcasts.

RTE's DAB licence application, which has been made in the past two weeks, comes just four months after RTE officially launched its digital radio trials.

Comreg is expected to make a decision on the application in early 2008 but Mick Kehoe, executive director of RTE Networks (RTENL), which operates the state's broadcasting transmission network, said there was no official timetable for the launch of a national digital radio service.

Kehoe said RTE would decide whether or not to start operating a service later this year when the first results of its DAB trials have been analysed.

"The question is: are people listening? The feedback from the trial seems good to date but we won't know fully until we complete our research."

If the research results are positive, it is likely that RTE will operate a digital radio system similar to its current trial, which can be received in the Dublin and Dundalk areas and features RTE's four national stations along with four additional RTE digital channels.

Kehoe also revealed that RTENL begun experimental DRM transmissions last week on RTE's long wave 252khz frequency. He said, however, that these were strictly technical trials and that there was no intention to start regular DRM transmissions in the near future.

"We've been looking at range and signal quality. We've been recording 252khz from a number of locations. We've been doing some recording in London and Evesham in the UK, Ballydavid in County Kerry and Derrybeg in north Donegal."

Kehoe said RTENL had experimented with transmitting multiple channels on the frequency and a ticker tape-style system which would offer rolling news headlines on DRM radio displays.

"We're just testing out the potential of the system but there are issues because no one is mass-producing DRM receivers at the moment, " he said.

Charles Slane

"The question is: are people listening? The feedback from the trial seems good to date but we won't know fully until we complete our research."

That's quite a bizarre thing to say really. If they start a trial with no promotion why would they expect anyone to be listening (apart from us, of course). Do they think that the general public are going to rush out to buy DAB sets for no particular reason and then discover the trials?

sudzs

Charles Slane wrote:

That's quite a bizarre thing to say really. If they start a trial with no promotion why would they expect anyone to be listening (apart from us, of course). Do they think that the general public are going to rush out to buy DAB sets for no particular reason and then discover the trials?

Are they running DAB trials similar to the digital television one I wonder?? I'm on that!

5h4mr0(k

sudzs wrote:

Are they running DAB trials similar to the digital television one I wonder?? I'm on that!

You mean you want another box to plug into your existing radio!?!

L1011

5h4mr0(k wrote:

You mean you want another box to plug into your existing radio!?!

Don't laugh, thats how JVC DAB-capable car radios work...

Antenna

DAB outages scheduled for next Tuesday the 28th in Dublin:
(From Aertel P169)


RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION 3/19
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
TRANSMITTER SITE: Three Rock

SERVICE: DAB

DATE: 28/08/2007

TIME/DURATION: 10.00 - 16.00

During the above period there will be
brief outages on all DAB services.


BTW a lot of other work on RTE transmitters around the country presently:

RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          1/19
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
TRANSMITTER SITE: Three Rock           
                                       
SERVICE: All FM and TV services        
                                       
DATE: 15/08/2007 - 6/09/2007           
                                       
TIME/DURATION: 09.00 - 18.00           
                                       
During the above period, all services  
will be subjected to power reductions, 
and brief outages, to facilitate       
essential mast painting.               
                          
              
 RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          2/19
 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
 TRANSMITTER SITE: Knockmoyle Transposer
                                        
 SERVICE: All FM services               
                                        
 DATE: 28/08/2007                       
                                        
 TIME/DURATION: 09.00 - 17.30           
                                        
 This outage is required to facilitate  
 essential maintenance.                 
                                        
                                        
                                        
                                        
                                                                             
                                        
 RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          4/19
 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
 TRANSMITTER SITES: Mountainstage,      
 Ballydavid and Knockanore Transposers  
 SERVICE: All TV and FM services        
                                        
 DATE: 27/08/2007 - 29/08/2007          
                                        
 TIME/DURATION: 08.00 - 18.00           
                                        
 These outages are required to          
 facilitate cabin replacement work at   
 three transposer sites in Co Kerry.    
                                        
                                        
                                        
 RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          5/19
 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
 TRANSMITTER SITE: Castlebar Transposer 
                                        
 SERVICE: All FM services               
                                        
 DATE: 30/08/2007                       
                                        
 TIME/DURATION: 09.00 - 17.30           
                                        
 This outage is required to facilitate  
 essential maintenance.                 
                                        
                                       
                                       
                                       
RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          6/19
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
TRANSMITTER SITE: Kippure              
                                       
SERVICE: All FM and TV services        
                                       
DATE: 03/09/2007                       
                                       
TIME/DURATION: 10.00 - 17.30           
                                       
During the above period all services   
will be subject to power reductions and
brief outages to facilitate rigging    
work.                                 
                                        
 RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          7/19
 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
 TRANSMITTER SITE: Clairmont Cairn      
                                        
 SERVICE: All FM and TV services        
                                        
 DATE: 05/09/2007                       
                                        
 TIME/DURATION: 09.00 - 17.30           
                                        
 This outage is required to facilitate  
 an essential NIR survey.               
                                        
                                                                               
                                        
                                        
 RTE TECHNICAL INFORMATION          8/19
 ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯             
 TRANSMITTER SITE: Fermoy Transposer    
                                        
 SERVICE: All FM and TV services        
                                        
 DATE: 10/09/2007                       
                                        
 TIME/DURATION: 09.00 - 18.00           
                                        
 This outage is required to facilitate  
 cabin replacement work.                

L1011

Two more services on the Dublin multiplex:

1: All 80's (on-screen as ALL 80s), this is one Ivan Nolan's station from the DTT trial. No DLS, genre set as "none", 128k Stereo, sounds as good as any other 128k stereo station with modern encoders does.

2: Mocha (on-screen as MOCHA), Nolan's other station from DTT, this has no DLS, genre as "none", 128k Stereo but sounds absolutely terrible, heavily muted sound with serious compression artefacting - like many stations have sounded just after launch actually...

White Horse

The sound quality of the Irish DAB broadcasts is noticably worse than their FM equivalents.

However, I don't notice much of a difference between the BBC DAB and FM broadcasts.

The Irish DAB broadcasts seem to have the same bitrate as those from the BBC, but they sound very "digital"; ie. compressed.

L1011

erm... I'd have said entirely the opposite, to be honest. UK DAB is using eldery equipment, generally worse bitrates, in the case of DigitalOne's network - terrible audioprocessing, and sounds noticably worse than FM.

To me and I'd say most others, Irish DAB sounds significantly better than UK DAB; and its FM equivalance is, well, down to your FM signal - if you're living in Tallaght/Sandyford and see the masts its going to be worse, out in Maynooth my 3R signal can be weak at times on the lower power FM stations (Phantom, Spin, etc) whereas the DAB is rock-steady and significantly better.

You're likely quite close to CC and quite some way out of proper range of the BBC FM broadcasts...

lucernarian

Not quite. Camlough (FM) gives very good coverage in Louth, especially Radio 1 which can be picked up in much of Drogheda and beyond.

But I'm suprised that the UK DAB would sound better in comparison. Their compression equipment would be much older. It's all down to perception. I think the 2fm broadcasts on DTT are much worse than FM, but I think 98FM on DTT sounds similar to DAB.


I saw some sort of report in the broadband forum, which mentioned that 13% of people "use" digital radio, but I don't know what counts as usage. Like the amas crowd, I think it's higher than expected.

http://www.amas.ie/documents/AMAS_state_of_the_net_No6_sep07_web.pdf

White Horse

MYOB wrote:

You're likely quite close to CC and quite some way out of proper range of the BBC FM broadcasts...

My FM reception from Camlough is practically perfect.

I did an AB test for both BBC and Irish radio.

BBC was just slightly better in FM, while RTE on DAB was much worse than FM.

Perhaps, RTE are much better on FM than the BBC.

byrnefm

I notice that around the city center in Dublin (particularly Nassau St, Kildare St), that DAB on a portable is basically unlistenable-to - the signal is being blocked by the buildings. However, FM comes in fine there. Perhaps they're not giving out the same amount of power as FM or if they are, it's due to the difference in the higher frequencies used by DAB?

I'd have thought that they'd want to have perfect coverage in Dublin city, at least, especially in an area like around Trinity College.

L1011

I've never thought BBC network FM sounded great in Northern Ireland, but its meant to be digitally fed not RBR these days...

The two new DAP stations on it seem to be pushing themselves on to as many outlets as possible - All 80's is on Magnet cable and online as well as DTT/DAB; Mocha is also online.

http://www.all80s.ie
http://www.mochadigitalradio.com

Notice quite a difference in effort/content between the two sites, though...