DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Radio|Man

I notice that around the city center in Dublin (particularly Nassau St, Kildare St), that DAB on a portable is basically unlistenable-to - the signal is being blocked by the buildings. However, FM comes in fine there. Perhaps they're not giving out the same amount of power as FM or if they are, it's due to the difference in the higher frequencies used by DAB?

I'd have thought that they'd want to have perfect coverage in Dublin city, at least, especially in an area like around Trinity College.

There was a city "fill-in" tested a while back. This site trial has now ended, but should be back once all the "i"s have been ....... and "t"s X

byrnefm

There are two new services on the air on DAB Ireland Mux2 as of today, I think (I didn't see them yesterday):

(note: they do say DAP - not a typo)
DAP ALL 80's
DAP Mocha

The first station mentions website: www.all80s.ie
The second mentions: www.mochadigitalradio.com

Both are at 128kbps stereo, "Pop Music" label.

Note: the second website doesn't work.

flogen

byrnefm wrote:

There are two new services on the air on DAB Ireland Mux2 as of today, I think (I didn't see them yesterday):

(note: they do say DAP - not a typo)
DAP ALL 80's
DAP Mocha

The first station mentions website: www.all80s.ie
The second mentions: www.mochadigitalradio.com

Both are at 128kbps stereo, "Pop Music" label.

Note: the second website doesn't work.

Yeah, they're the stations that have been available on the DTT trial for a while; the company has a digital broadcast licence and I think it's available to some UPC customers too (and will be rolled out further soon). I remember him saying something about broadcasting on 3G networks too, not sure what stage that's at.

DAP isn't a typo - it stands for Digital Audio Productions, which is the company behind the two... it's run by Dusty Rhodes.

http://www.digitalaudioproductions.com/

(I know this because I interviewed him for a recent DAB-related article)

L1011

flogen wrote:

Yeah, they're the stations that have been available on the DTT trial for a while; the company has a digital broadcast licence and I think it's available to some UPC customers too (and will be rolled out further soon). I remember him saying something about broadcasting on 3G networks too, not sure what stage that's at.

DAP isn't a typo - it stands for Digital Audio Productions, which is the company behind the two... it's run by Dusty Rhodes.

http://www.digitalaudioproductions.com/

(I know this because I interviewed him for a recent DAB-related article)

I thought it was "Ivan Nolan" these days, not Dusty..

byrnefm - bet ye to it by two days The Mocha website was working then.

byrnefm

MYOB wrote:

I thought it was "Ivan Nolan" these days, not Dusty..

byrnefm - bet ye to it by two days The Mocha website was working then.

D'oh! I hadn't spot your posting! I only came across it when flicking thru my list of stations on my radio and it had appeared in the listings (before I did a rescan).

We're not doing bad then on the ol' DAB line up for the moment, then, really! I really wonder, though, how many people have DAB radios in Dublin at this stage... It's hardly that well advertised (though I have heard it being mentioned on 2FM).

L1011

2FM's stings now start with "On digital, on FM, online" IIRC; and 2XM has been plugged at every one of the festivals they carried stuff from - ******, Electric Picnic, PlanetLove SS. RTÉ could easily also push DAB over the AM/LW optouts seeing as they're available in far higher quality on DAB, but they don't seem to.

byrnefm

I see that there's a full-page article about the "Digital Radio Revolution" on page 8 of the Business supplement to the Irish Independent today. Seems like we'll be waiting a while for nationwide coverage...

david23

This is the article:

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/digital-radio-revolution-1139525.html

The delay could be beneficial. By late 2008 most sets on the market will receive DAB+ transmissions so some stations in Ireland could use the new standard just like Australia, which is launching its digital radio service in early 2009.

L1011

I really really doubt "most" sets on the market by then will support DAB+. We we told "most" sets would support it in autumn 2006. How many do.







Oh, wait. None.

DMC

For the record, copying the article here...

Digital radio revolution
New technology is transforming the broadcasting
Thursday October 11 2007
http://www.independent.ie/business/media/digital-radio-revolution-1139525.html

FOR almost two years now, a radio revolution has been quietly brewing at RTE's Montrose HQ. The source of this revolution is a new technology called Digital Audio Broadcasting, or simply DAB to those in the know.

This technology, RTE says, could alter our airwaves beyond recognition by making room for scores of new channels that could be broadcast at a fraction of current broadcast costs.

The new services will also have higher quality broadcasts, with no hiss and crackle, tuning will become a thing of the past as the radios can tune themselves, and for the first time radio will have a visual element, with a small screen delivering information like the name of a song that's playing.

It certainly sounds like a brave new world. But if you haven't heard a thing about it, don't worry, you're not the only one.

RTE, along with leading commercial radio stations, has been trialling DAB technology since last November. Eleven traditional radio stations are now being broadcast using the new technology, along with four new RTE stations and two new commercial stations.

But this bevy of stations can only be picked up in the greater Dublin and Dundalk areas, which covers just 36pc of the population. And within those areas only people with special DAB radios can actually listen to the services.

Given the relatively limited scope of the trial, it's perhaps unsurprising that RTE hasn't been shouting from the rooftops about the new baby that they talk so passionately about.

As the national broadcaster's head of radio operations, JP Coakley puts it: "We are dying to tell people about this but it would be wrong to do so without a [permanent] licence.

"We have to wait until it's something that has a clear rationale and is on a proper legislative basis before we start spreading the word."

The process of getting a permanent licence has now been set in train, as RTE has asked Comreg for a permanent licence to roll out digital radio nationwide.

RTE hopes to have a decision on that licence "by early next year". "From there, we think we can manage a fairly substantive national service within the next two or three years," Coakley says.

Any Comreg decision, however, won't pave the way for national commercial DAB, which has to be legislated for by the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI).

The BCI's current (government-mandated) priority is to lay the foundations for digital terrestrial television and sources say licensing of DAB services won't be considered "until late 2008 at the earliest", so permanent national DAB is a while away yet.

In the meantime, RTE Networks has applied for a one year's extension of its trial licence which will keep national and commercial DAB stations on the airwaves until November 2008.

And the commercial sector has thrown its weight behind what started as a largely RTE-driven initiative by forming Digital Radio, an industry-wide group set up to promote DAB's future.

"I think it's been going incredibly well so far," says Dusty Rhodes, former 2fm DJ and the proud head of Digital Audio Productions which is behind two DAB-only radio stations.

"We've been doing some research on it and the results won't be out until after Christmas, but the initial indications are extremely positive from technical and public interest aspects."

His sentiments are echoed by Colin Crawford, marketing manager of Pure, which supplies Ireland with its growing cohort of DAB radios.

"We had a dealer show in August and the reaction was very strong," says Crawford. "DAB radios are more expensive than regular FM players and retailers definitely got the message that DAB was something that could revitalise the radio market for them."

"It's very early days in Ireland yet, we'd be expecting to sell thousands of the DAB radios at Christmas, but small thousands, nothing like the hundreds of thousands of sets that will be sold in the UK," he added.

The path Ireland is travelling has, of course, been well trodden in the UK, where DAB has now become so prevalent, people are actually talking about a FM radio 'switch off'.

However, Coakley says Ireland is a long way from killing the FM signal.

"We've had FM and AM for 40 years. There's no reason why DAB and FM can't co-exist for a reasonable period of years," he says. "No-one's talking about FM switch off here yet."

Rhodes, however, is more bullish. "I feel things will move swifter than they have in the UK," he says. "It's quite possible we could be in a position to switch off FM in 10 years or so."

Rhodes' vision, however, also includes some form of "incentive" which would encourage commercial broadcasters to set themselves up on DAB. In the UK, broadcasters who went up on DAB were given an extension of their existing licences. Rhodes hopes the same scenario will play out here.

The BCI and the Government have yet to show their hand on this, or the other aspects of DAB licensing.

What is clear, however, is that any move to DAB would create a radically different licensing environment. The number of licences that can be awarded at the moment is constrained by the number of slots available on the FM band. The creation of another national station, for example, is a logistical impossibility because there is quite literally not enough space for it.

Those constraints will be nigh obliterated by DAB, which could comfortably accommodate 10 national RTE stations and 10 national commercial stations.

"The industry is concerned that the effect of more stations could be that everyone suffers," says Coakley. "But we have to take a realistic long-term view. If we don't find a way to offer more choice, meaningful choice, then we run a very significant risk of losing listeners.

"With DAB there is an opportunity to look at community stations as well as local stations, special interest and niche services, that may not be of great significance for the vast majority but may have a particular significance for people geographically or linguistically."

RTE has already tried to promote this diversity by introducing four new DAB-only stations including a rolling news station, a classic hits station, a children's music station and a youth music station.

Coakley is particularly enthusiastic about the children's station, RTE Junior.

"Here's a constituency that just wasn't addressed before," he says. "It would be very expensive to put the station up on FM, so DAB will give you stuff you couldn't get before."

DMC

The article depresses me, somewhat.

Phrases like...
"by early next year"
"licensing of DAB services won't be considered "until late 2008 at the earliest""
"one year's extension of its [RTÉ's] trial licence"
doesn't inspire me.

I thought, with the launch of Dusty Rhodes's DAP channels, that a permanent footing would occur in a few weeks time, once this trial ended.

L1011

DAP are now running on 112k only...

david23

MYOB wrote: »

I really really doubt "most" sets on the market by then will support DAB+. We we told "most" sets would support it in autumn 2006. How many do.
Oh, wait. None.

Pure's latest clock radios (Siesta & Chronos II) are upgradeable to DAB+ via a software update and there are one or two others by lesser known brands.

There are mobile phones on the way that will receive DAB+ according to this article:

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Phones/Industry/H2P9N7A8?page=1

I don't believe that anyone can enjoy 112kbps MP2 broadcasts.

weehamster

I love the fact that these radio's can be upgraded, which is rare but cool. But more importantly i feel its essential, especially for Ireland. We all know about DAB+ and the fact that RTE went for DAB instead just because there is a much wider range of radios available, will come back to haunt us. When will RTE, DCMNR & BCI cop on and join the rest of the world and move to DAB+. Very shortsighted I believe :rolleyes:

watty

Or more likely DRM and DRM2/+ whatever.

L1011

david23 wrote: »

Pure's latest clock radios (Siesta & Chronos II) are upgradeable to DAB+ via a software update and there are one or two others by lesser known brands.

There are mobile phones on the way that will receive DAB+ according to this article:

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Phones/Industry/H2P9N7A8?page=1

I don't believe that anyone can enjoy 112kbps MP2 broadcasts.

Allegedly upgradable, but you really expect that said upgrade will materialise if there's a market to sell new sets?

A possible software update and as-yet unreleased phone handsets does not equal receivers on the market. As I said, there are *no* DAB+ receivers available, over a year after they were first promised. There is no point moving to a format nobody can receive

As goes DRM, DRM receivers do exist - I've got one. There's just bog all of them around. Its also "allegedly" upgradable to DRM+, but again - what incentive is there to to the maker to release an upgrade like that for free?

weehamster

What Satellite

Tech think-tank attacks DAB

DAB is not the best platform to host Britain's long-term digital radio broadcasts, researchers claim.

The report by Enders Analysis describes DAB technology as "anachronistic" and warns it could be overshadowed by new technologies which offer more choice through more accessible platforms.

These include WiFi-enabled internet radios, 3G mobile phones and radio via digital TV platforms like Freeview and satellite.

It adds that the radio industry is struggling to make any money from DAB channels but it could be very difficult and commercially embarrassing to move away from the DAB network it's now building.

Just over five million DAB radios have been sold in the UK, and coverage lags far behind digital TV, let alone analogue radio.

Few other countries have committed themselves to DAB, and many are now looking favourably on both DAB 2.0 and Digital Radio Mondiale, which offer both improved sound quality and highly efficient use of the radio spectrum.

L1011

If we hold on for "around the corner" forever, we'll never move forward. When TÉ started they -could- have held on a wee bit and gone colour from the off... and so on.

Antenna

MYOB wrote: »

If we hold on for "around the corner" forever, we'll never move forward. When TÉ started they -could- have held on a wee bit and gone colour from the off... and so on.

Its hardly a good comparison, as the introduction of colour on 625 lines did not prevent B+W 625 line sets from working. Likewise other developments such as Teletext and NICAM did not affect existing TVs either. However current DAB receivers will not work with DAB+ (though DAB+ receivers would be backward compatible with existing DAB transmissions)

Some would say that it would be more appropriate to compare the current DAB with the defunct UK 405 lines TV system, and DAB+ with 625 lines (which is what we still have). When TE started - if a nationwide network of 405 line transmitters was rolled out for all regions - it would have been good in the short term (cheap low cost receivers and fully compatible with all pre-TE TVs in the country (for long distance BBC reception), but in the long term it would have been very bad!

TE did transmit on both standards (expensive) to parts of the country with a pre-existing very high level of 405 line sets (for UK reception), but the intention was that 625 lines was the standard for Ireland (before the UK used 625 lines at all) , and the sale of 405 line only capable sets was strongly discouraged.

I do take on board that there has been a delay in DAB+ capable receivers coming on the market, but we are now seeing MP4 personal audio players (similar technology) coming on the market in a big way.

SF1

Radio Kerry has been added to Mux2 at 96 kbps in stereo. Just thinking what has Radio Kerry got to do with the Dublin area.

byrnefm

96kbs in stereo? I guess I can find out what Stereo AM would have sounded like, then (yes, I know it existed in some countries - Australia being one of them, I believe!)

SimonMaher

SF1 wrote: »

Radio Kerry has been added to Mux2 at 96 kbps in stereo. Just thinking what has Radio Kerry got to do with the Dublin area.

Sounds pretty manky truth be known at the moment. Main problem is though is feedback. Sounds like its being picked up off a stream (aac+ which is good) but whatever machine is playing it back is feeding back on itself giving a lovely squeal. Even when the squeal is gone though, I dont think 96k stereo is ever going to be nice...better off going with a nice clear 96k mono.

Simon

Mossy Monk

SF1 wrote: »

Just thinking what has Radio Kerry got to do with the Dublin area.

I am sure someone in the Dublin area will enjoy it.

L1011

Simon Maher wrote: »

better off going with a nice clear 96k mono.

Please don't *ever* consider doing that with your setup, Sinister Pete needs to be in stereo when he's waking me up

SimonMaher

MYOB wrote: »

Please don't *ever* consider doing that with your setup, Sinister Pete needs to be in stereo when he's waking me up

Dont worry about it...should always be stereo for music. I reckon 112k is the least you could get away with for stereo that sounds nice and then its a matter of getting the processing right (relay from FM would sound nasty).

Simon

L1011

At the moment, we've a few silent stations:

98FM
FM104
Newstalk
Spin 1038 - might have thought some Communicorp/Emap outage, but Phantom's off too - any comments Simon?

SimonMaher

MYOB wrote: »

At the moment, we've a few silent stations:

98FM
FM104
Newstalk
Spin 1038 - might have thought some Communicorp/Emap outage, but Phantom's off too - any comments Simon?

Truth be known, I have no idea! Sounds like it might be a problem at the Donnybrook end. Will get on to it and see whats happening. Apologies for the interruption.

Simon

More Music

Hi guys,

I think Radio Kerry 96kbps stereo is a test. It will revert to 96kbps mono very soon.

SF1: Surely they have as much right to be there as say any of the DAP stations, considering they actually hold a broadcasting licensing as opposed to a digital content providers license. Nobody ever said it was restricted to Dublin only stations.

I hope all the DAB stations currently silent do return shortly. It's lonely on the mux at the moment - only RTE, Today FM and Radio Kerry.

byrnefm

D'oh, missed the stereo Radio Kerry. It's at 96kbps Mono this morning.

L1011

More Music wrote: »

I hope all the DAB stations currently silent do return shortly. It's lonely on the mux at the moment - only RTE, Today FM and Radio Kerry.

And Q102, and the DAP stations... had to listen to All 80s last night!