DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

DMC

No real changes, still the same services... but the fada has been removed from the RTÉ channels, so, at last, my Roberts RD-5 displays the RTE labels without the odd symbol it used before instead of an É .

L1011

My Pure Evoke 1XT has the same display as yours and just showed the É as smaller than the rest to fit it in.

Most of the channels now have descriptive text, and FM104/98FM appear to be close to permanently off-air. Phantom and TodayFM work so thats me happy

L1011

Commericial's off-air ATM.

L1011

Back. Someone must have hit a switch in three rock control

DMC

Changes.

Mux 1
Right now, Aimsimcst is back as a sub-carrier of the main RTÉ Radio 1 service. 48kHz.
Service9 is simulcasting the RTÉ TV news live right now. Mono 64kbps
Service8 is silent Mono 96kbps

Service6 has appeared, but silent. Mono 64kbps.
Service 10 has appeared, Mono 64kbps with adult rock sounds.

The main services are in stereo 128kHz, except Lyric which is 160kHz.

On mux 2, 98FM is still silent, all others are on air at 128kbps in stereo, except Newstalk in 64kbps mono.

L1011

wonder if all the mono RTE are doing is related to the fact that most DAB radios are mono.... no benefit to stereo for most people.

SimonMaher

From Radiowaves.fm:

A new industry group, Digitalradio.ie, have welcomed the arrival of public DAB digital radio trials in Ireland. DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting) is a new type of radio technology, new DAB digital radio sets are required to listen to the public DAB trials.

Digitalradio.ie has been set up to explore the development and promotion of digital radio in Ireland. The current members, who are all involved in the present trial, are: Dublin's 98FM, Digital Audio Productions, Dublin's FM104, Newstalk 106-108, Phantom 105.2, Dublin's Q102, RTÉ Radio, Spin 1038, Today FM and UCB.

Since early March, a trial digital radio service with 11 stations (six existing national stations and five Dublin stations) has been live and on air in the Greater Dublin and North-East area, serving 36% of Ireland’s population. Digitalradio.ie is now inviting members of the public to tune into the trials and plans to conduct a user survey during the trial period.

This is the beginning of a collaborative effort by the radio sector to fully examine digital radio. The group will also be inviting all Irish radio broadcasters, including those outside the trial area, to join digitalradio.ie so that awareness of the new technology is shared by all in the industry.

There will be a range of new DAB-only services on trial in the very near future. Anyone living in the test area who owns a DAB digital radio can listen to the 11 existing services and the new DAB-only services once they are on air this summer.

Some of the advantages of DAB digital radio, as outlined by Digitalradio.ie, are: ease of use; more stations, more choice and more content for listeners; push-button tuning; pause and rewind and clearer sound.

Simon

watty

DAB is actually a well establised possible failure in Digital Radio Broadcasting.

Oh how I hate marketing spin.

david23

DAB as a worldwide standard was almost dead about a year ago. The Finns and Swedes had switched it off, the Germans and the Dutch were on the verge of dumping it and the French (who haven't yet properly launched digital radio) were about to go for a different standard (such as DVB-H).

The launch of DAB+ (with AAC+ coding) appears to have changed all that and there's a renewed global interest in DAB. The Swedes, Germans & Dutch are about to award new commercial DAB licences. These will probably use DAB+, for which the sets should be on sale by late Summer. Australia & New Zealand are launching DAB+ services in 2008/09 and the French are expected to approve DAB+ (or T-DMB audio, which is virtually the same) later this year.

The UK will launch another national mux next year and their regulator Ofcom is proceeding with the award of local mux licences at the rate of one per month.

Today's announcement is good news for Ireland, but I just hope that people don't buy too many MP2-only sets. The optimum solution is to be able to make the switch to DAB+ as soon as possible and not to end up in the same situation as the UK, where it will take years to make the switch to the new codec.

Foggy43

I thought we discussed this before and concluded that DAB is quite adequate for Ireland and there is no need for DAB+. This was based on the ammount of stations that will use DAB.

DAB as it is here in the UK is to stay. Too many people have spent too much money on current receivers. Changing now could be suicidal for DAB. Maybe in about 10 years change over.

As I see it the only problem with quality is the number of stations a mux is transmitting. The station I listen too is on a mux that carries 6 other stations. No problem with quality. But then as you get older your hearing deteriorates.

-ego-

Hi long time reader first time writer.
I bought a Bush PSDAB2004 over in Blackpool over the Easter & last night I thought I'd try to find the new stations mentioned above. I did a channel search & got the Irish ones (RTÉ & the local Dublin ones) but also got the BBC National DAB (Asian network, Bbc1-7,World ect.) Im just wondering if its normal to receive them late evening from NI & Wales or is it on the three mountain transmitter?

watty

VHF conditions are good today. RTE will only do BBC on DAB if a gun held to their head. I was getting perfect VHF FM R4 in Slane today.
I was talking to a Guy near Galsgow this evening on VHF via Dundalk 145MHz repeater perfectly too, on N7 near Rathcool.

If you had a suitable outdoor aerial (Band III Log periodic TV) and adjust polarisation for best signal, you might get the UK DAB all the time.

Antenna

Foggy43 wrote:

I thought we discussed this before and concluded that DAB is quite adequate for Ireland and there is no need for DAB+. This was based on the ammount of stations that will use DAB.



DAB as it is here in the UK is to stay. Too many people have spent too much money on current receivers. Changing now could be suicidal for DAB. Maybe in about 10 years change over.

That would be the case in the UK, where, yes there has been significant takeup of DAB, but not in other European countries (including Ireland), where a change to DAB+ would not hurt very many people.
DAB+ receivers would also be fully compatible with receiving the existing DAB. I suspect the DAB go-slow in most European counties has a lot to do with broadcasters waiting for the improved DAB+ technology down the road. DAB+ also works better than the existing DAB in marginal reception areas (i.e. think of much of rural Ireland)

Comparisons would be made with the 405/625 line TV systems debate with the introduction of TV in this country. Rolling out a nationwide transmitter network using the (now defunct) British 405 line would have been good in the short term (low cost TVs), but madness in the long term. (there was of course partial 405 line coverage to facilitate parts of the country with high levels of ownership of 405 line only sets where NI transmissions were widely received).

watty

Or indeed wideband stereo DRM. DRM seems to be a much better thought out system that can deliver:

near DAB mono quality on LW/MW/SW
Auto retuning
Text simultanously
File transfer
Optional Reverse channel
Variable bandwidth
Better Quality than FM or DAB in less bandwith than either on VHF.

DRM is already getting deployed on the whole of Europe (even Ireland & UK) for LW, MW, SW.

DAB has very small worldwide takeup and DAB+ could be even less popular.

Even DVB-h makes more sense fro Radio than DAB now.

And even the UK 405 roll out was a mistake. It should have been 625 in 1950s after war. To copy DAB just because the UK shot themselves in foot with it (an action replay of 405 vs 625) is mad.

To have RTE in control of a network that supports 3 to 5 times the number of stations RTE will have content for is Mad.

To exclude BBC Radio when it is available on AM, shortly DRM and on MMDS / Cable & satellite, and to a large part of the population direct on VHF-FM and DAB is mad.

I can get BBC Radio Ulster and BBC Radio Devon (MW) on the car Radio in Limerick, and of course R4 LW.

SPDUB

Foggy43 wrote:

I thought we discussed this before and concluded that DAB is quite adequate for Ireland and there is no need for DAB+. This was based on the ammount of stations that will use DAB.

As watty points out it more correct to say the amount of stations that will be allowed to use DAB

Foggy43

Antenna!
That was something I was unsure off, current DAB receivers being able to recieve DAB+.

I presume it will be down to Comreg as to who can broadcast DAB. Anyone know if Local Radio will be interested or even allowed?

L1011

Foggy43 wrote:

Antenna!
That was something I was unsure off, current DAB receivers being able to recieve DAB+.

I presume it will be down to Comreg as to who can broadcast DAB. Anyone know if Local Radio will be interested or even allowed?

They have no Band III allocations before 2012, so for the moment - I doubt it. They have L band allocations, but they realistically cannot be used due to about 1 in 100 receivers supporting it. The "big brands" - Roberts, Pure, etc - don't do it at all.

Charles Slane

From an article in the Sunday Business Post by Adrian Weckler about people preferring radio with no djs (?) some info about the new RTE digital stations was included -

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA+AND+MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=23363-qqqx=1.asp

"Coakley said three of the six new stations would be ‘‘niche’’ music stations. He said two channels would be dedicated news bulletin services recorded in three-minute loops. One of the stations would ‘‘probably’’ include audio content from RTE television news broadcasts. He said there were no plans to include advertising in any of the new stations. Coakley said RTE would announce more details of station content in a month’s time.

Asked about the possibility of US-style public access to some of the new digital channels, he said that this would be too expensive to do in the short term, as it required mediation and more staff. He said RTE was cur rent ly sp ending €250,000 a year on its digital radio activities.

‘‘We’re looking at that and it’s something I’m very interested in,” he said. ‘‘There are lots of possibilities there for a public service broadcaster. But we can’t invest in it now because it would be too expensive and would need to be mediated.” Coakley denied that the goal was to create more middle-of-the-road commercial music stations. ‘‘The issue is not to replicate FM channels,” he said.

‘‘There is no reason why we cannot have the best of daytime radio for people who are not there to listen at those times.” When asked about the lower quality radio signals that digital radio transmits, Coakley said 80 per cent of people surveyed by RTE could not tell any difference in quality from an FM broadcast.

He said some aspects of digital broadcasting were cheaper than conventional FM transmissions. He said to cover Ireland required 41 FM transmitters, whereas the greater Dublin and Meath area could be covered with just two digital transmitters.

‘‘It’s likely that our digital radio transmissions will continue after November,” he said.

‘‘We’re applying for a full licence under the terms of the Broadcasting Act, and are fairly confident we’ll get it. Anyone who buys a digital radio now should get a continuous service after November.”

RTE’s digital radio signal covers all of Dublin and most of Meath and southern Louth. The content is the same as FM, broadcasting Radio One, 2FM, Lyric FM and Raidio na Gaeltachta."

byrnefm

Foggy43 wrote:

Antenna!
That was something I was unsure off, current DAB receivers being able to recieve DAB+.

Current DAB receivers won't be able to receive DAB+ but the other way around will be true. At best, the current receivers will display the station name but nothing more.

The reasons for this are that DAB+ requires a better processor and software/firmware that can decode DAB+.

VERYinterested

98FM is still silent for some reason. The split broadcast between RTE Radio 1 FM and AM service is working away fine now. I was listening to the eircom League football on Friday night and currently Mass is on the AM service and Marian Finucane's show is on FM service. Signal does not appear to be as strong when travelling to the City Centre on the Luas with a portable DAB receiver.

waiguoren

On the RTE Multiplex there are:
RTE 2XM
RTE Choice - no sound
RTE Digital News
RTE Gold
RTE Junior
Service 10
+ the usual RTE Radio 1, 2FM, Lyric, RnaG & RTE Radio 1 AM Simulcast

L1011

I've no AM Simcast anymore. The news carrier is so low bitrate! Service 10 appears to be news too, higher rate.

DMC

AM Simcast was there yesterday evening around 10pm.

Service 10 is still reminding us of how well Big Ian and Martin did on May 8th

L1011

I had rescanned shortly before I posted that post, and it wasnae there then, honest guv! :P

DMC

Aye, it appears they have definitely sorted it out as a proper part-time service.

Newtown90

Ok i am in north kerry and would like to buy a dab radio for the bbc and rte channels and virgin radio so will i get a reception or is it a waste of money???All advice needed and accepted!1

Charles Slane

From Sunday Business Post - http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=THE+INSIDE+TRACK-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=24081-qqqx=1.asp

"RTE is close to making an announcement on the names of a new suite of digital radio stations.

It is testing four digital stations as part of a broader trial of digital radio here. Sources say there will eventually be six RTE digital stations, three of which will be music-based and three talk-driven. One of the music stations will be aimed at children."

Charles Slane

Glenviewjf wrote:

Ok i am in north kerry and would like to buy a dab radio for the bbc and rte channels and virgin radio so will i get a reception or is it a waste of money???All advice needed and accepted!1

Sorry but it's definitely a waste of money at the moment. The DAB trials are currently available in the east of Ireland. And if and when the service rolls out across the rest of the country, it's not likely that the BBC stations or Virgin will be available.

If you want to get those stations your best bet would be to get a satellite dish and receiver. The RTE stations, Newstalk, all the BBC stations and Virgin (and many many more) are available free-to-air on satellite.

flogen

Charles Slane wrote:

From Sunday Business Post - http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=THE+INSIDE+TRACK-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=24081-qqqx=1.asp

"RTE is close to making an announcement on the names of a new suite of digital radio stations.

It is testing four digital stations as part of a broader trial of digital radio here. Sources say there will eventually be six RTE digital stations, three of which will be music-based and three talk-driven. One of the music stations will be aimed at children."

Read that - I hope they put the stations on the DTT trial once they're formally announced!

DMC

Anyone with a DAB radio would tell the SBP what the names are!