dealing with scumbags

Lockstep

RitaM wrote: »

The overall training is intense - as I said they are both as intense as each other. Of course they are.

Martial arts is an incredibly broad range of subjects. I'm no expert on them but I doubt they can be brought into one camp and boxing on the other.

RitaM wrote: »

What I'm saying is, martial arts is far more varied for places in the body to target in the case of 'self defence' that's kind of what this topic is all about.

Sound, however, what you said was that martial arts are more intense than boxing. I'd take that to mean that you consider it tougher and more demanding. Maybe you didn't mean for it to come out that way but that was what it appears.

d22ontour

Wow this thread has entered the fail period tbh.Started of 'years ago' about Ballyer which to peeps who know the area is a decent place and not full of scummers like most would think.Then descends into an up to date kung fu ideal of how to deal with scummers late at night when possibly pissed as most peeps tend to be.

So become a whiskey drunken ninja and nobody will ever bother you.


:pac:

Odysseus

I have to say it was interesting to read this thread, I grew up in Ballyfermot when it was an interesting place to live. I'm coming up on 38, I'm into MA for a number of years, I metion both as they have been metioned. Just be careful and get on with your life. There is some amount of hysteria on this thread.

RitaM

d22ontour wrote: »

Wow this thread has entered the fail period tbh.Started of 'years ago' about Ballyer which to peeps who know the area is a decent place and not full of scummers like most would think.Then descends into an up to date kung fu ideal of how to deal with scummers late at night when possibly pissed as most peeps tend to be.

So become a whiskey drunken ninja and nobody will ever bother you.


:pac:

Sounds like a plan.

RitaM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Martial arts is an incredibly broad range of subjects. I'm no expert on them but I doubt they can be brought into one camp and boxing on the other.


Sound, however, what you said was that martial arts are more intense than boxing. I'd take that to mean that you consider it tougher and more demanding. Maybe you didn't mean for it to come out that way but that was what it appears.

As I mentioned - I cannot speak for boxers - but my training in martial arts has been incredibly intense. I apologise if my message came across as ignorant to boxers - I really meant that martial arts is more varied to target certain points of the body - didn't mean to take it down.....so to speak. Sorry.

ibFoxer

Having worked as a bouncer/barman and lived in Dublin for 4 years i can tell you Ballyer is by no means the worst part of Dublin. There are scumbags everywhere, easiest thing to do is just ignore them, carry on, and ndo your best to get the frack outta there if confronted by a group......

Sarky

Jesus. I used to give advice in After Hours beyond "try jamming a fork in your eye".

SimpleSam06

Yeah, this is one of the most depressing threads I have read in a long time. It makes life for a normal, well adjusted young person in Ireland sound like a stint in prison. I mean that literally. "Befriend a big guy", "Learn kung fu", "Don't fight back", and so on. I mean what sort of a society are we living in?

You can say you'd find the same in any country, but you wouldn't. This is not normal.

I think the problem is the "scumbags" have brinkmanship down to a fine art. They don't want to go to jail, so they act in a way that won't land them in prison. They know when and how to act in a way that gives them the maximum amount of power, while minimising their chances of legal retribution. They probably have discussions on what sort of person is the best to harass, and where to do it, and so on.

I mean look at this, it must have the character of a sporting event for these guys.

Thats the level we should be tackling them at, not the level of duking it out with them in back alleys. Make their opportunities less for harassment, and make it not worth their while to do it. Risk and punishment must be greater than potential gains or entertainment.

How we do it is a different question.

shenanigans1982

Pray you come up against a stupid one...I aint a tough guy by any standards but when I got mugged the guy grabbed me by the jumper and said he wasn't letting go of me until I gave him my money.....I still have the image of him trying to stop my punches with one hand while holding onto me with the other.

D-A-V-E

what im thinking of doing, and dont think im messing coz im from limerick city but loads of my friends now carry whackers (little device with lead in it covered in leather with a handle) and retractable batons for safety, if someone gives you hassel just whip it out and tell them what we always say to intimidate the knacks..'il fu*kin end you rite now with this if you dont f*ck off rite now..they generally tend to be so suprised that you have something like that and are 'up for a fight' so they just leave.
call me what you want but im telling you, on a night out these things can get you out of the worst trouble



http://www.ninja-weapons.com/Self_Defense/Police_Cuffs/images/5467.jpg

tomegan1983

I was heading through ballyfermot once and bumped into four guys like that. They were looking for a cigarette and aswell I don't smoke. One of them hit me from behind so I said to myself either I take a kicking or I could get up and take a kicking while I fight back. I dropped 2 of them. When I hit back they ran away. Don't get me wrong I got a kicking but when they saw I fought back they ran. about 2 days later I bumped into the same crowd so I put down my head and kept walking but all they done was called me names. I know I had the chance of getting stabbed but I would rather let it happen while I made some attempt to defending myself.

D-A-V-E

tomegan1983 wrote: »

I was heading through ballyfermot once and bumped into four guys like that. They were looking for a cigarette and aswell I don't smoke. One of them hit me from behind so I said to myself either I take a kicking or I could get up and take a kicking while I fight back. I dropped 2 of them. When I hit back they ran away. Don't get me wrong I got a kicking but when they saw I fought back they ran. about 2 days later I bumped into the same crowd so I put down my head and kept walking but all they done was called me names. I know I had the chance of getting stabbed but I would rather let it happen while I made some attempt to defending myself.

too f*ckin rite too, fair play for fighting back, what would they have done if you had that whacker with you? one group of thugs that wouldnt harm you again i think..:)

x in the city

would mowing down knackers/scums with your car be bold..?

actually i better not say that...

not as if they will be missed in fairness

chickenhawk

RitaM wrote: »

I think the training of both is as disciplined and intense as each other.

But I do speak as a martial artist, I know boxers personally and indeed martial artisits - kickoboxers and Tae Kwon Do practicioners. However, in the sparring aspect martial artists use feet - legs - elbows - fingers - everything - whereas, boxers just use their fists alone.

Not ignorant - fact.

Yea but you try use feet, legs, elbows etc in a street fight where you don't bow to each other beforehand and see how that goes for you.

I've done a few types martial arts and sparred with boxers and boxers were by far the harder opponents.

It's all relative anyways. People don't know how they will react in a fight. I've seen people who have lots of training freeze up while others will fight until they are dragged away.

RitaM

Yeah boxers hit pretty hard, in Tae Kwon Do training punches are used quite a lot. If I was ever in a street fight (heaven forbid) of course I wouldn't do all the fancy stuff and stop and think "erm, hang on a sec there young lad - I just wanna remember exactly how to do this type of jump, bare with me, won't be long" I would punch as fast and as furious as I could (and hope I wouldn't freeze into shock - which happens a lot to people) Your two fingers - a straight and hard ram into the neck, this is a very quick and easy thing to do and the person will not get up from it for a while.

Anyway, I don't like this talk, it's all too violent and the best form of self defence is avoidence, but it's good to know how to protect yourself, boxer, martial artist, whatever. It is unfortunate that the society we live in has become like this.

daveywavey08

My god...this is the problem with little girls and old ladies learning crap like TKD. You have second degree black belt women on the door of nightclubs and I reckon even 8 of them couldn't get me out the door if I acted up.
It's giving people a false sense of security. When you throw on your little headgear and gloves and shinpads and start throwing your crescent kicks and roundhouses and think that a big guy won't be able to pick you up and pummell your head into the pavement as fast as you say "Geronimo!".
When/If I have daughters I will teach them to run. It's the only defense for a woman in this situation, and for most people in general.
A dose of reality is in order.
It's just downright dangerous for people to be learning TKD for anything other than fitness.
And I ain't an armchair expert, I've been in a lot of streetfights...it ain't pretty and doesn't last long.

Sherifu

daveywavey08 wrote: »

When/If I have daughters I will teach them to run. It's the only defense for a woman in this situation, and for most people in general.
A dose of reality is in order.

Women are slow though, they don't get away. Usually. ¬_¬

Sarky

daveywavey08 wrote: »

You have second degree black belt women on the door of nightclubs and I reckon even 8 of them couldn't get me out the door if I acted up.

Well then you're a bit thick.

Messed Up Mind

Sarky wrote: »

Well then you're a bit thick.

Not so much thick, but a bit of a scumbag himself then.

And as for Ballyer, I've never had any trouble there. I've lived in Tallaght all my life, and my mam and dad are from Ballyfermot. I often get the bus over to Ballyfermot to visit my nanny and I've never gotten stopped, attacked anything. If you don't have a cigarette, just be honest 'sorry mate, I don't smoke' and keep walking. They're not all trouble.

RitaM

daveywavey08 wrote: »

My god...this is the problem with little girls and old ladies learning crap like TKD. You have second degree black belt women on the door of nightclubs and I reckon even 8 of them couldn't get me out the door if I acted up.
It's giving people a false sense of security. When you throw on your little headgear and gloves and shinpads and start throwing your crescent kicks and roundhouses and think that a big guy won't be able to pick you up and pummell your head into the pavement as fast as you say "Geronimo!".
When/If I have daughters I will teach them to run. It's the only defense for a woman in this situation, and for most people in general.
A dose of reality is in order.
It's just downright dangerous for people to be learning TKD for anything other than fitness.
And I ain't an armchair expert, I've been in a lot of streetfights...it ain't pretty and doesn't last long.

Haha, that actually made me giggle, not angry. I'm not even going to discuss this with you.
I pity you mate. Really I do.

chopperbyrne

RitaM wrote: »

Haha, that actually made me giggle, not angry. I'm not even going to discuss this with you.
I pity you mate. Really I do.

His post was one of the most sensible. Traditional Martial Arts are just not practical in most fight situations.

RitaM

It was probably the most ignorant. People train in martial arts for many different reasons, not just to 'fight' - if anything it teaches you NOT to fight. There are major health benefits, for muscles, bones, posture, we all get old and the benefits are long lasting creating a healthier life style and a proper digestive system considering many people just head to the pub every night of the week. It's also good for mental health - depression, and PMT, it helps with period cramp a great deal too - actually one of the reasons I took it up.

Now, you didn't think of all that did you.

chopperbyrne

daveywavey08 wrote: »

My god...this is the problem with little girls and old ladies learning crap like TKD. You have second degree black belt women on the door of nightclubs and I reckon even 8 of them couldn't get me out the door if I acted up.
It's giving people a false sense of security. When you throw on your little headgear and gloves and shinpads and start throwing your crescent kicks and roundhouses and think that a big guy won't be able to pick you up and pummell your head into the pavement as fast as you say "Geronimo!".
When/If I have daughters I will teach them to run. It's the only defense for a woman in this situation, and for most people in general.
A dose of reality is in order.
It's just downright dangerous for people to be learning TKD for anything other than fitness.
And I ain't an armchair expert, I've been in a lot of streetfights...it ain't pretty and doesn't last long.

RitaM wrote: »

It was probably the most ignorant. People train in martial arts for many different reasons, not just to 'fight' - if anything it teaches you NOT to fight. There are major health benefits, for muscles, bones, posture, we all get old and the benefits are long lasting creating a healthier life style and a proper digestive system considering many people just head to the pub every night of the week. It's also good for mental health - depression, and PMT, it helps with period cramp a great deal too - actually one of the reasons I took it up.

Now, you didn't think of all that did you.

I didn't need to. You just ignored it though.

IzzyWizzy

Yeah, this is one of the most depressing threads I have read in a long time. It makes life for a normal, well adjusted young person in Ireland sound like a stint in prison. I mean that literally. "Befriend a big guy", "Learn kung fu", "Don't fight back", and so on. I mean what sort of a society are we living in?

You can say you'd find the same in any country, but you wouldn't. This is not normal.

Totally agree. I'm tired of people telling me it's the same everywhere. It isn't. Of course no city is totally safe, but nowhere else am I constantly on edge, looking behind me, just waiting for trouble, even in broad daylight. I was started on at 8am on my way to work a couple of months ago, and I'm a girl! I reported it and that guards weren't really interested. That's why this city is the kip it is - the scum get away with everything because everybody is afraid of them and there's barely any guards around. Every city has its no go areas but in Dublin the scum are all over the city centre - on the quays, by Tara St station, Pearse St, everywhere. Nowhere is safe. I've walked around Madrid, New York City, Paris at night and didn't have a single bit of hassle. I wouldn't even do that in Dublin. I used to work shifts in NYC where I was walking to the subway at 6 am or coming back at 11pm and never had any trouble other than annoying guys whistling at me. Never had a single bit of hassle in the daytime, and I lived in a dodge neighbourhood.

The scum really are taking over the place. We are pretty powerless. Yeah you can fight back, and probably end up worse off or even dead, or you have to scuttle past and hope they don't start on you. What kind of existence is that? Decent people can't walk around the city centre without fearing some drugged up junkie or scumbag attacking them. It's really appalling. I've had just about enough of it and I'm looking to get out as soon as possible. It makes me really angry that I can't live where I want to because of knacker scum, that I'll probably end up moving away from my family and friends, but I'm just sick of it. The attack in broad daylight in the city centre was the last straw. I should not have to learn Tae Kwon Do or whatever else just to be able to walk around town. This place has gone to the dogs and I'm amazed at how many people don't seem to realise it.

Degsy

You gotta stare them down.If they ask you a question they're looking for your reaction and will base thier reaction accordingly.
If you behave like you're afraid its a red rag to a bull with them.
You have to stick up for yourself.
The scumbag/bully mentality is "I'm not going to **** with somebody who's going to fight back.There's lots of people who wont."
I shouldnt be saying this but....
If you're getting hassled every time you walk outside the house you need to take the iniative to them,its the only thing they understand.
I reccomend some ammonia in a jif lemon bottle and follow it up with a flury of kicks in the goolies.
Make no mistake they will NOT leave you alone if you try to reason with them.

truecrippler

Learn some Kung Fu. A few Karate chops to the back of the neck should sort them out, but try not to hurt your hand as they tend to wear 3 inch thick 'golden' chains around their neck so aim for the skin, not the Argos product.

Good luck.

nyarlothothep

yar this thread depresses me alright. Could be the offshoot of the nanny state, we are not powerless but the weakening of community makes it easier for scum to be predatory. I read an article saying that zero tolerance isn't effective but only so when used in conjunction with increased police presence, social improvement etc.

BraziliaNZ

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

Totally agree. I'm tired of people telling me it's the same everywhere. It isn't. Of course no city is totally safe, but nowhere else am I constantly on edge, looking behind me, just waiting for trouble, even in broad daylight. I was started on at 8am on my way to work a couple of months ago, and I'm a girl! I reported it and that guards weren't really interested. That's why this city is the kip it is - the scum get away with everything because everybody is afraid of them and there's barely any guards around. Every city has its no go areas but in Dublin the scum are all over the city centre - on the quays, by Tara St station, Pearse St, everywhere. Nowhere is safe. I've walked around Madrid, New York City, Paris at night and didn't have a single bit of hassle. I wouldn't even do that in Dublin. I used to work shifts in NYC where I was walking to the subway at 6 am or coming back at 11pm and never had any trouble other than annoying guys whistling at me. Never had a single bit of hassle in the daytime, and I lived in a dodge neighbourhood.

The scum really are taking over the place. We are pretty powerless. Yeah you can fight back, and probably end up worse off or even dead, or you have to scuttle past and hope they don't start on you. What kind of existence is that? Decent people can't walk around the city centre without fearing some drugged up junkie or scumbag attacking them. It's really appalling. I've had just about enough of it and I'm looking to get out as soon as possible. It makes me really angry that I can't live where I want to because of knacker scum, that I'll probably end up moving away from my family and friends, but I'm just sick of it. The attack in broad daylight in the city centre was the last straw. I should not have to learn Tae Kwon Do or whatever else just to be able to walk around town. This place has gone to the dogs and I'm amazed at how many people don't seem to realise it.

God, now you're depressing me. I've been away for a couple of years but will be back next year probably, and this sort of stuff really makes me appreciate NOT being in Dublin at the moment, I've never ever had hassle anywhere else in the world. There's a serious problem with youths in Dublin, they just seem so angry and bitter with everything, and I don't think they have a right to be, I mean they get looked after by the government it's not like they're starving to death. Bad parenting it's down to, obviously, people should know that stamping on someone's head till they die is wrong. I can understand scuffles but you back off when they're down and leave, these people don't. I've never had any trouble in Dublin really, but I had a relative murdered by a gang of teens while walking home from the pub 10 years ago, and it depresses the hell out of me. They didn't go to jail due to technicalities and were giving fingers to the cameras etc. afterwards. So these scumbags and all their mates who knew them can literally get away with murder these days, they are above the f*cking law. The Gardai need to shape up.

Dragan

wiensta wrote: »

How can you deal with scumbags?

Mostly i try and ensure situations where i don't need to "deal" with them.

1) When you get to Dublin learn some well traveled and populated routes off the locals. Ensure they are well lit and busy....less chance of trouble.

2) Don't carry a weapon....it's moronic and stupid....you are not going to be willing to use it so don't go there.

3) If walking quiet streets at night then BE AWARE. If you are at all nervous don't have your headphones in, walk with your head up and eyes alert. Some people look like victims with the way they carry on on the street.

4) Avoid known trouble area's and spots within the city...once again some friendly locals in college will help you out.

These normally help me no matter where i go, the chance of getting into a tight spot with scumbags will be reduced greatly and is pretty small anyway.

From my own perspective, how i deal with any situation will depend on who else is their, how many scumbags etc. If i am with a friend and some trouble kicks off their safety will become my priority, so if putting down some loan scumbag or walking away from 10 of them is the safest course of action thats what i will do.

Dragan

Degsy wrote: »

If you're getting hassled every time you walk outside the house you need to take the iniative to them,its the only thing they understand.

I would say if you are getting hassled every time you step outside the door your really need to re-evaluate how you present yourself to the world. If you look like a victim these scum will sense it and take advantage.

Your talking about a group of people with a vested interest in picking on the weak and the meek after all.

RitaM wrote: »

Haha, that actually made me giggle, not angry. I'm not even going to discuss this with you.
I pity you mate. Really I do.

In all fairness, the transfer of skillset from TKD to what occurs during your typical altercation on the street is quite limited, so i can see where the guy was coming from. And while all the other advantages of TKD that you raised are accurate, they are hardly applicable to a conversation based around scumbags and defending yourself from them.

I have said this before, and gotten in trouble for it, and i will say it again right now.....the best delivery systems for "self defense" in the average altercation will be boxing or Muay Thai. Sharp strong blows, direct and to the point. Back it up with some good sprint training and the odd bit of long distance to deal with a persistant attacker and you are set.

I have no issue with TKD, it's a fine art....but it really is not the best for Self Defence situations.

Finally, when is the last time you jammed two fingers into someones throat? It's a nice idea, but when you are reducing the size of both your striking object and your target in such a manner, especially in a pressure situation with various unknown elements you are really reducing the chances of effectively dealing with someone attacking you. I also doubt this strike has been drilled a massive amount by just about anyone.

Advice would be to stick to the basic strikes if you find yourself in a situation where you need to engage them.