Covid 19 crisis - aid to the civil power

Larbre34 · 13-03-2020 03:30AM #1

Statement from the Defence Forces

"The Defence Forces confirms that we have notified our personnel of the impending change to our force posture and all non-essential activities have been suspended. Our focus now is to maximise our preparedness to respond to requests for assistance from the Civil Authorities.

Protecting our personnel is our priority and is key to maintaining our capability to provide support to communities and civil authorities, when requested.

For operational security reasons, we will not comment on specific dispositions of troops or on internal unit procedures at this time.

For specific queries related to COVID-19 we refer you to the Health Service Executive.

ENDS"

As has been seen widely on social media today, unit commanders have issued orders putting their personnel on 'yellow alert' status from Monday next 16th March. This means they will report to barracks with kit for Aid To Civil Power tasks and may be deployed in the field for 72 hr periods, between which they will rotate to barracks only, to attempt to limit infection amongst their numbers.

This is quite simply the biggest deployment of DF personnel in generations. If not of all time, it would rival in scale the 'Emergency' or the height of the Troubles in the early to mid 1970s.

We can only hope our civil authorities have not run down their numbers and capability to such an extent that they experience great strain in performing their tasks.

In the meantime, we wish them the best in the time ahead as well as our support and thanks, both to them and to their families for their sacrifice.

Beir bua.

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2020 04:59AM

What's on the cards, are we going to finally start locking in clusters.

Larbre34 · 13-03-2020 10:28AM

Restricting movement? I would doubt it. I understand there will be announcements later today about revised policing patterns from the Garda Commissioner, we may or may not hear some details of the DF role out of that.

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2020 12:11PM

There a lot of talk about it, I think people nearly expect it, if there's clusters there should be restrictions.

saabsaab · 13-03-2020 12:24PM

Time for the defense forces now, plus reserves force may be needed to enforce. The clusters should be restricted now even Cork City if necessary.

Alkers · 13-03-2020 03:46PM

I do not understand why they would give so much notice in such a situation. Letting the members mix with the general population for the weekend vastly increases the chance of them picking up the virus, especially if they expect to be called up and are socialising etc more than on a normal weekend. Once they are in the barracks, there is significant potential for the virus to transmit between members in close quarters. Plus as we've seen, information and misinformation is spreading like wildfire at the moment.

Not having a go, just an observation.

allysangel · 13-03-2020 03:49PM

As I understand it only one barracks were issued with that letter. I know serving members in other barracks and they did not get that . They have been briefed by HSE etc but not asked to report to barracks .

TheBoyConor · 13-03-2020 03:55PM

I can imagine the hard core military types on Boards are absolutely flogging the mickies off themselves at the prospect of seeing the army deployed to help control this thing.

TheBoyConor · 13-03-2020 03:58PM

restricting movement? Me arse they will. How could the government do that. I would doubt that they would even have a legal basis to lawfully restrict a persons movements unless that person is actually proven to be sick and a an immediate danger of spreading the virus.

There wasn't half of this outrage back in the '50s when there was TB and that had a death rate of about 30 or 40 percent if you got it.

s7ryf3925pivug · 13-03-2020 05:15PM

allysangel wrote: »

As I understand it only one barracks were issued with that letter. I know serving members in other barracks and they did not get that . They have been briefed by HSE etc but not asked to report to barracks .

Which barracks?

allysangel · 13-03-2020 06:07PM

Custume

Signore Fancy Pants · 13-03-2020 06:45PM

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

CrankyHaus · 13-03-2020 09:13PM

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

You're right. It will be in the papers tomorrow. People need to calm down.

saabsaab · 13-03-2020 09:16PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

restricting movement? Me arse they will. How could the government do that. I would doubt that they would even have a legal basis to lawfully restrict a persons movements unless that person is actually proven to be sick and a an immediate danger of spreading the virus.

There wasn't half of this outrage back in the '50s when there was TB and that had a death rate of about 30 or 40 percent if you got it.

In a national emergency they certainly can. If the powers are not on the books now I'm sure the Dail would rush a law through. They have stated already that strict quarantine may be applied to cluster areas.

TheBoyConor · 13-03-2020 10:36PM

saabsaab wrote: »

In a national emergency they certainly can. If the powers are not on the books now I'm sure the Dail would rush a law through. They have stated already that strict quarantine may be applied to cluster areas.

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

Signore Fancy Pants · 13-03-2020 11:14PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

The Government can declare a State of Emergency and activate Martial Law in the event of an emergency.

TheBoyConor · 13-03-2020 11:45PM

A fanciful notion. The hasn't been martial last in Ireland since the war of independence and civil war. People were being slaughtered in the streets.

It's fairytale thinking that martial law would be declared over what is essentially a bad cold.

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

Anyway, they haven't got the capability or the will to enforce it. I would like to see them try to impose it and try to stop me or anyone going the byways of the countryside. What are they going to do? Shoot me?

In China they can do these things because they have that sort of system and the population is fairly disciplined. Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

Larbre34 · 13-03-2020 11:45PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.

You would've likely thought the same about Italy a month ago, yes?

Three weeks ago, Covid-19 was added to the schedule of the Infectious Diseases (Amendment) Regulations 2020. This means the civil authorities can implement any restrictions, short of the application of a death penalty, to guarantee public safety from a notifiable disease.

The constitution specifically removes itself from being a barrier to emergency powers, so long as those powers are vested in a legitimate Act of the Oireachtas.

So yes, if it comes to it, the Dáil can enact pretty much exactly a law that restricts that prevents free movement, albeit very conditional.

sparky42 · 13-03-2020 11:50PM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

So you missed Italy, Spain, areas of Austria, not to mention the widespread restrictions across the EU...

TheBoyConor · 13-03-2020 11:51PM

Well, that may be the case. But like any other law in this country, it'll be a theatre piece, implemented in a half arsed fashion, not enforced and then just ignored.

I bet they'll still be pulling for motor tax and nct though. They are probably checking for it at those drive thru swabbing test stations.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-03-2020 12:04AM

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

Agreed, and further to this there is a contradiction in the thread title and content.

We're being asking with Aid to The Civil Authorities (A.T.C.A) and not as an Aid to The Civil Powers (A.T.C.P.)

This is the problem with civilians read a notice like that, you read it completely different than a member of the DF would.

The lines between the two might be blurred for a civilian, but there's a marked difference when a soldier reads it.

If you're concerned about the DF deployment I'd suggest you read any updates on military.ie or the various DF social media platforms, ie facebook and twitter and follow the HSE and government guidelines re. hand hygiene, social spacing, symptoms, isolation etc

um7y1h83ge06nx · 14-03-2020 12:37AM

All I have seen online is the DF gearing up to support the HSE etc. so the very best of luck to them, every bit of help is needed.

Larbre34 · 14-03-2020 05:45AM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I bet they'll still be pulling for motor tax and nct though. They are probably checking for it at those drive thru swabbing test stations.

Actually no, my close relative in the Guards showed me his orders last night, they have been told to suspend MIT and S49 checkpoints completely, these are motor insurance and tax and the big drink/drug driving checkpoints.

Suspected intoxication will be dealt with by individual stop & test only.

Signore Fancy Pants · 14-03-2020 08:23AM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A fanciful notion. The hasn't been martial last in Ireland since the war of independence and civil war. People were being slaughtered in the streets.

It's fairytale thinking that martial law would be declared over what is essentially a bad cold.

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

Anyway, they haven't got the capability or the will to enforce it. I would like to see them try to impose it and try to stop me or anyone going the byways of the countryside. What are they going to do? Shoot me?

In China they can do these things because they have that sort of system and the population is fairly disciplined. Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

You incorrectly proclaimed that the government had no powers to restict freedom of movement, I merely pointed out that you dont know your arse from your elbow.

Your ignorance to the gravity of the situation is astounding and reinforces the "boy" part of your usename. You are either acting the bollox or not intelligent enough to comprehend the current situation.

If people listen to the direction and self isolate/social distance themselves then the virus can be controlled/slowed down. If not, then extreme stupidity (presumably by you and your ilk) will incur extreme measures.

It is highly unlikely that ML will be put in force....highly unlikely!!

However, the beauty about capability is that under ML, everything closes. Strategic locations within population centres, main supply routes, food distribution centres, electricity, gas, fuel, and water infrastructure will be controlled by military/police. We do have the capability to do this.

As Makikomi said above ATCP and ATCA are two different responses. ATCA is HSE etc (soft response), ATCP is AGS (hard response).

daheff · 14-03-2020 08:27AM

saabsaab wrote: »

Time for the defense forces now, plus reserves force may be needed to enforce. The clusters should be restricted now even Cork City if necessary.

Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

This is a phased lockdown. Ultimately a lockdown like China could be required to stop virus spiralling out of control.

14-03-2020 08:37AM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

Like you?
I think you would find the reality very different from your teenage rebellion.
The majority of people in the country would go along with the directions they ate given. At times of emergency, most people tend to pull together

donvito99 · 14-03-2020 08:43AM

ARTICLE 38

1 No person shall be tried on any criminal charge save in due course of law.

...

3 1° Special courts may be established by law for the trial of offences in cases where it may be determined in accordance with such law that the ordinary courts are inadequate to secure the effective administration of justice, and the preservation of public peace and order.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 14-03-2020 08:45AM

daheff wrote: »

Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

This is a phased lockdown. Ultimately a lockdown like China could be required to stop virus spiralling out of control.

The RDF is decimated, where are they getting the numbers?

Signore Fancy Pants · 14-03-2020 09:02AM

Elian Purple Beaker wrote: »

The RDF is decimated, where are they getting the numbers?

Its PDF, RDF, AGS, and other emergency services.

The PDF also have a large pool of retired personnel that can be reactivated if required. Id assume the AGS have the same.

The objective is not to ensure every single person does not leave their house. Its to disperse and restrict large groups of people.

TBH, it's not needed anyway, we should big enough boys and girls to realise the dangers of community spread.

Only idiots would be out potentially risking contracting/infecting other people.

Unfortunately, idiots are not in short supply.

daheff · 14-03-2020 09:35AM

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

TBH, it's not needed anyway, we should big enough boys and girls to realise the dangers of community spread.

Only idiots would be out potentially risking contracting/infecting other people.

Unfortunately, idiots are not in short supply.

We should be....but as you say we have more than our fair share of idiots.

I'd bet shopping centres will be jammers today.

sparky42 · 14-03-2020 02:25PM

An article from Admiral Mellet regarding what the DF will be doing:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defence-forces-to-shift-to-status-yellow-with-330-troops-aiding-hse-1.4202609

Covid 19 crisis - aid to the civil power

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