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Covid 19 crisis - aid to the civil power

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    blindsider wrote: »
    Hi All,

    Not sure where to post this...

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/irish-defence-forces_recruitment-defenceforces-activity-6646028791728746496-pJob

    (Couldn't find a better link...)

    At 0:36 secs, it looks like 2 Air Corps crew in a 2-seater...but it looks like a jet to me - complete amateur here - is this one of our aircraft - if so, can anyone tell me what it is....curious?

    Thanks!
    It's one of the PC9's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    So far so good no riots or unrest. I see that shops are boarding up their windows. Is this on advice from some quarter and trouble is expected?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    saabsaab wrote: »
    So far so good no riots or unrest. I see that shops are boarding up their windows. Is this on advice from some quarter and trouble is expected?

    Where is this happening?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Where is this happening?


    Saw it on TV in Dublin and Galway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    So far so good no riots or unrest. I see that shops are boarding up their windows. Is this on advice from some quarter and trouble is expected?


    It's more likely that they expect to be away form the shops for a prolonged period.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,770 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yes, certain insurance companies require it for extended shutdowns, especially where external shutters aren't fitted. It certainly adds to the 28 Days Later feel of things


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    As this is very likely to go on for some a long while is it now time to deploy some army units, say armoured cars etc at various potential flashpoints at junctions in cities for visible Garda support. Hopefully to stop any trouble before it can start.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    saabsaab wrote: »
    As this is very likely to go on for some a long while is it now time to deploy some army units, say armoured cars etc at various potential flashpoints at junctions in cities for visible Garda support. Hopefully to stop any trouble before it can start.

    No need for this yet but if the situation gets worse it may be necessary at some point. Not sure how many armoured cars the army actually has in its inventory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    saabsaab wrote: »
    As this is very likely to go on for some a long while is it now time to deploy some army units, say armoured cars etc at various potential flashpoints at junctions in cities for visible Garda support. Hopefully to stop any trouble before it can start.

    That kind of 'hard' posture can sometimes create more problems that it will solve.

    Certainly I dont think the visuals of amoured vehicles on the streets would be helpful at this time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    The DF are currently operating in a humanitarian role.

    It is doubtful that the government want the DF to operate in a security role unless a breakdown of society is on the cards.....which is not likely at present.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Armoured cars and tanks and guns
    Came to take away our fun...

    Not your ornery onager



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭Cork Boy 53


    The DF are currently operating in a humanitarian role.

    It is doubtful that the government want the DF to operate in a security role unless a breakdown of society is on the cards.....which is not likely at present.

    I know that the Navy ships are docked in Dublin and Cork and are providing power, services etc. for the testing sites. Are they actually doing more than this outside of their normal activities?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    No need for this yet but if the situation gets worse it may be necessary at some point. Not sure how many armoured cars the army actually has in its inventory.


    They have over a hundred but you are right no need yet I'd say but it would be better to have them in place ahead of any need. Maybe in two weeks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Do they still have rhe Scorpion tanks? Great bit of kit that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Do they still have rhe Scorpion tanks? Great bit of kit that!


    I think they have been retired but might be still in reserve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,770 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Come off it lads, the DF are AT PAINS to play down any sense of militarisation in what they are doing. They have posts on instagram explaining what vehicles will be seen out and about and why and they are just vans, 4x4s, pickups and transport trucks of various sizes.

    I can guarantee the day you see a Mowag or a RG LTAV on the street it means we are already deeply in the sh1t. Armour has such a negative connotation on this island I can only imagine the meetings that took place between the Government, civil service and Guards and DF about that very point.

    I've seen lots of large Garda Public Order Unit vans out and about and I've heard there are many of these on full time duty around the Country ready to be tasked to any trouble spots. And thats how it should be until something fundamental changes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Come off it lads, the DF are AT PAINS to play down any sense of militarisation in what they are doing. They have posts on instagram explaining what vehicles will be seen out and about and why and they are just vans, 4x4s, pickups and transport trucks of various sizes.

    I can guarantee the day you see a Mowag or a RG LTAV on the street it means we are already deeply in the sh1t. Armour has such a negative connotation on this island I can only imagine the meetings that took place between the Government, civil service and Guards and DF about that very point.

    I've seen lots of large Garda Public Order Unit vans out and about and I've heard there are many of these on full time duty around the Country ready to be tasked to any trouble spots. And thats how it should be until something fundamental changes.


    Can't see why we are only talking about light armoured vehicles. Nobody in their right mind will want to mess with one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Can't see why we are only talking about light armoured vehicles. Nobody in their right mind will want to mess with one.
    I half-hoped you were joking when you brought this up first, but now I have to ask: are you actually serious?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Esel wrote: »
    I half-hoped you were joking when you brought this up first, but now I have to ask: are you actually serious?


    Deadly serious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Deadly serious.
    Why? There's no sign of any such issues that would require the DF being deployed in that role.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    They have over a hundred but you are right no need yet I'd say but it would be better to have them in place ahead of any need. Maybe in two weeks?


    No they don't, between the MOWAG's deployed on UN duties and those out of country being refitted I doubt there's 50 here, as to the 32's by the sounds of it they wouldn't get out of the barracks before they broke down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Why? There's no sign of any such issues that would require the DF being deployed in that role.


    Not yet. Things can change quickly so best be prepared. Anyway it would give people some reassurance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Not yet. Things can change quickly so best be prepared. Anyway it would give people some reassurance.


    No it wouldn't, putting army vehicles into such positions would be a vast overkill and would result in more pissing nonsense from the Left TD's already whining that somehow we've followed Hungary. The DF have plenty to do rather than wasting time doing something that the Gardaí are more than capable of handling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    I know that the Navy ships are docked in Dublin and Cork and are providing power, services etc. for the testing sites. Are they actually doing more than this outside of their normal activities?

    The army have been erecting tents, providing infrastructure and personnel for testing sites across the country (Galway, Donegal, Dublin, Waterford, Cork, Louth, etc) in addition to contact tracing.

    DF Paramendics are working as part of Dublin Fire Brigade and National Ambulance Service crews.

    Logistics will be transporting medical equipment as it comes in.

    There are also other tasks that you wont see but all plugging into support for the HSE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Not yet. Things can change quickly so best be prepared. Anyway it would give people some reassurance.

    As sparky42 has said, things would have to seriously deteriorate for the DF to be called in.

    I can only see it happening:

    1. If a complete lockdown was called, curfew in effect.
    2. Issues in the supply chain leading to significant widespread rioting.

    None of which is likely at present. For many, the sight of the DF on the streets could be counter productive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    'I can only see it happening:

    1. If a complete lockdown was called, curfew in effect.
    2. Issues in the supply chain leading to significant widespread rioting.

    None of which is likely at present. For many, the sight of the DF on the streets could be counter productive'


    1. Is very possible if this doesn't come under control soon.
    2. Less so but these aren't normal times and who knows.


    I don't see how it would be counter productive as other countries have done this without issue. Anyway I agree now is too early but not perhaps for very long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    'I can only see it happening:

    1. If a complete lockdown was called, curfew in effect.
    2. Issues in the supply chain leading to significant widespread rioting.

    None of which is likely at present. For many, the sight of the DF on the streets could be counter productive'


    1. Is very possible if this doesn't come under control soon.
    2. Less so but these aren't normal times and who knows.


    I don't see how it would be counter productive as other countries have done this without issue. Anyway I agree now is too early but not perhaps for very long.


    Other nations have enough said units to actually make a difference, we do not. The entire Army vehicle fleet could be deployed to Dublin and not make a difference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Other nations have enough said units to actually make a difference, we do not. The entire Army vehicle fleet could be deployed to Dublin and not make a difference.


    The entire fleet in Dublin and not make its presence felt! Ah come on, only a while back you said it would be counter productive. How so if they wouldn't be noticed?

    Sorry, it wasn't you that said counter productive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭sparky42


    saabsaab wrote: »
    The entire fleet in Dublin and not make its presence felt! Ah come on, only a while back you said it would be counter productive. How so if they wouldn't be noticed?


    I said it would be counter productive now, if we were in a state of widespread civil disobedience they wouldn't make a difference because the Gardaí with nearly twice the manpower and far more vehicles would already have failed to keep order.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    saabsaab wrote: »
    1. Is very possible if this doesn't come under control soon.
    2. Less so but these aren't normal times and who knows.

    I don't see how it would be counter productive as other countries have done this without issue. Anyway I agree now is too early but not perhaps for very long.

    1. It's nowhere even close for the need for the DF to be on the streets in a security role. Its so so far away for that to happen, thats its currently inconceivable.

    2. The supply chains are operating well with the increased demand with plenty of redundancy.

    3. Having the DF on the streets may worry some people, benign or not, it creates uncertainty and leads to panic. The general populace doesnt really understand the nuances in differing DF roles.

    In fact, some people were not comfortable that the State used the DF to collect and deliver vital PPE from the airport last week. Some thought it sent the wrong message or even someone on this site claimes it was "propaganda".

    However, I do see where you are coming from but I dont see it happening unless the shtf!


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