Covid 19 crisis - aid to the civil power

Larbre34

Statement from the Defence Forces

"The Defence Forces confirms that we have notified our personnel of the impending change to our force posture and all non-essential activities have been suspended. Our focus now is to maximise our preparedness to respond to requests for assistance from the Civil Authorities.

Protecting our personnel is our priority and is key to maintaining our capability to provide support to communities and civil authorities, when requested.

For operational security reasons, we will not comment on specific dispositions of troops or on internal unit procedures at this time.

For specific queries related to COVID-19 we refer you to the Health Service Executive.

ENDS"

As has been seen widely on social media today, unit commanders have issued orders putting their personnel on 'yellow alert' status from Monday next 16th March. This means they will report to barracks with kit for Aid To Civil Power tasks and may be deployed in the field for 72 hr periods, between which they will rotate to barracks only, to attempt to limit infection amongst their numbers.

This is quite simply the biggest deployment of DF personnel in generations. If not of all time, it would rival in scale the 'Emergency' or the height of the Troubles in the early to mid 1970s.

We can only hope our civil authorities have not run down their numbers and capability to such an extent that they experience great strain in performing their tasks.

In the meantime, we wish them the best in the time ahead as well as our support and thanks, both to them and to their families for their sacrifice.

Beir bua.

drunkmonkey

What's on the cards, are we going to finally start locking in clusters.

Larbre34

Restricting movement? I would doubt it. I understand there will be announcements later today about revised policing patterns from the Garda Commissioner, we may or may not hear some details of the DF role out of that.

drunkmonkey

There a lot of talk about it, I think people nearly expect it, if there's clusters there should be restrictions.

saabsaab

Time for the defense forces now, plus reserves force may be needed to enforce. The clusters should be restricted now even Cork City if necessary.

Alkers

I do not understand why they would give so much notice in such a situation. Letting the members mix with the general population for the weekend vastly increases the chance of them picking up the virus, especially if they expect to be called up and are socialising etc more than on a normal weekend. Once they are in the barracks, there is significant potential for the virus to transmit between members in close quarters. Plus as we've seen, information and misinformation is spreading like wildfire at the moment.

Not having a go, just an observation.

allysangel

As I understand it only one barracks were issued with that letter. I know serving members in other barracks and they did not get that . They have been briefed by HSE etc but not asked to report to barracks .

TheBoyConor

I can imagine the hard core military types on Boards are absolutely flogging the mickies off themselves at the prospect of seeing the army deployed to help control this thing.

TheBoyConor

restricting movement? Me arse they will. How could the government do that. I would doubt that they would even have a legal basis to lawfully restrict a persons movements unless that person is actually proven to be sick and a an immediate danger of spreading the virus.


There wasn't half of this outrage back in the '50s when there was TB and that had a death rate of about 30 or 40 percent if you got it.

s7ryf3925pivug

allysangel wrote: »

As I understand it only one barracks were issued with that letter. I know serving members in other barracks and they did not get that . They have been briefed by HSE etc but not asked to report to barracks .

Which barracks?

allysangel

Custume

Signore Fancy Pants

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

CrankyHaus

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

You're right. It will be in the papers tomorrow. People need to calm down.

saabsaab

TheBoyConor wrote: »

restricting movement? Me arse they will. How could the government do that. I would doubt that they would even have a legal basis to lawfully restrict a persons movements unless that person is actually proven to be sick and a an immediate danger of spreading the virus.


There wasn't half of this outrage back in the '50s when there was TB and that had a death rate of about 30 or 40 percent if you got it.

In a national emergency they certainly can. If the powers are not on the books now I'm sure the Dail would rush a law through. They have stated already that strict quarantine may be applied to cluster areas.

TheBoyConor

saabsaab wrote: »

In a national emergency they certainly can. If the powers are not on the books now I'm sure the Dail would rush a law through. They have stated already that strict quarantine may be applied to cluster areas.

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

Signore Fancy Pants

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

The Government can declare a State of Emergency and activate Martial Law in the event of an emergency.

TheBoyConor

A fanciful notion. The hasn't been martial last in Ireland since the war of independence and civil war. People were being slaughtered in the streets.

It's fairytale thinking that martial law would be declared over what is essentially a bad cold.

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

Anyway, they haven't got the capability or the will to enforce it. I would like to see them try to impose it and try to stop me or anyone going the byways of the countryside. What are they going to do? Shoot me?

In China they can do these things because they have that sort of system and the population is fairly disciplined. Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

Larbre34

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.

You would've likely thought the same about Italy a month ago, yes?

Three weeks ago, Covid-19 was added to the schedule of the Infectious Diseases (Amendment) Regulations 2020. This means the civil authorities can implement any restrictions, short of the application of a death penalty, to guarantee public safety from a notifiable disease.

The constitution specifically removes itself from being a barrier to emergency powers, so long as those powers are vested in a legitimate Act of the Oireachtas.

So yes, if it comes to it, the Dáil can enact pretty much exactly a law that restricts that prevents free movement, albeit very conditional.

sparky42

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

So you missed Italy, Spain, areas of Austria, not to mention the widespread restrictions across the EU...

TheBoyConor

Well, that may be the case. But like any other law in this country, it'll be a theatre piece, implemented in a half arsed fashion, not enforced and then just ignored.

I bet they'll still be pulling for motor tax and nct though. They are probably checking for it at those drive thru swabbing test stations.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The letter you saw on social media was a routine reminder to have your kit ready incase of deployment.....absolutely nothing unusual.

All whatsapp voice messages are bull****, most (if not all) from civilians not military members.

The DF will be aiding the HSE, AGS and any other State agency that requests assistance, in whatever manner required.

Expect troops to fill gaps in essential services.

At this point in time, no Monday morning lockdown has been planned.

Calm your tits

Agreed, and further to this there is a contradiction in the thread title and content.

We're being asking with Aid to The Civil Authorities (A.T.C.A) and not as an Aid to The Civil Powers (A.T.C.P.)

This is the problem with civilians read a notice like that, you read it completely different than a member of the DF would.

The lines between the two might be blurred for a civilian, but there's a marked difference when a soldier reads it.

If you're concerned about the DF deployment I'd suggest you read any updates on military.ie or the various DF social media platforms, ie facebook and twitter and follow the HSE and government guidelines re. hand hygiene, social spacing, symptoms, isolation etc

um7y1h83ge06nx

All I have seen online is the DF gearing up to support the HSE etc. so the very best of luck to them, every bit of help is needed.

Larbre34

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I bet they'll still be pulling for motor tax and nct though. They are probably checking for it at those drive thru swabbing test stations.

Actually no, my close relative in the Guards showed me his orders last night, they have been told to suspend MIT and S49 checkpoints completely, these are motor insurance and tax and the big drink/drug driving checkpoints.

Suspected intoxication will be dealt with by individual stop & test only.

Signore Fancy Pants

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A fanciful notion. The hasn't been martial last in Ireland since the war of independence and civil war. People were being slaughtered in the streets.

It's fairytale thinking that martial law would be declared over what is essentially a bad cold.

It would be profoundly unpopular and in a Western country like Ireland it simply would be unthinkable to impose it in anything other than the most very most exceptionally extreme of circumstances.

Anyway, they haven't got the capability or the will to enforce it. I would like to see them try to impose it and try to stop me or anyone going the byways of the countryside. What are they going to do? Shoot me?

In China they can do these things because they have that sort of system and the population is fairly disciplined. Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

You incorrectly proclaimed that the government had no powers to restict freedom of movement, I merely pointed out that you dont know your arse from your elbow.

Your ignorance to the gravity of the situation is astounding and reinforces the "boy" part of your usename. You are either acting the bollox or not intelligent enough to comprehend the current situation.

If people listen to the direction and self isolate/social distance themselves then the virus can be controlled/slowed down. If not, then extreme stupidity (presumably by you and your ilk) will incur extreme measures.

It is highly unlikely that ML will be put in force....highly unlikely!!

However, the beauty about capability is that under ML, everything closes. Strategic locations within population centres, main supply routes, food distribution centres, electricity, gas, fuel, and water infrastructure will be controlled by military/police. We do have the capability to do this.

As Makikomi said above ATCP and ATCA are two different responses. ATCA is HSE etc (soft response), ATCP is AGS (hard response).

daheff

saabsaab wrote: »

Time for the defense forces now, plus reserves force may be needed to enforce. The clusters should be restricted now even Cork City if necessary.

Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

This is a phased lockdown. Ultimately a lockdown like China could be required to stop virus spiralling out of control.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Here, it's full of selfish me feiners and chancers who will try to sue or claim off the gov at the drop off a hat of there's any small chance at all they'll get away with it.

Like you?
I think you would find the reality very different from your teenage rebellion.
The majority of people in the country would go along with the directions they ate given. At times of emergency, most people tend to pull together

donvito99

ARTICLE 38

1 No person shall be tried on any criminal charge save in due course of law.

...

3 1° Special courts may be established by law for the trial of offences in cases where it may be determined in accordance with such law that the ordinary courts are inadequate to secure the effective administration of justice, and the preservation of public peace and order.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

daheff wrote: »

Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

This is a phased lockdown. Ultimately a lockdown like China could be required to stop virus spiralling out of control.

The RDF is decimated, where are they getting the numbers?

Signore Fancy Pants

Elian Purple Beaker wrote: »

The RDF is decimated, where are they getting the numbers?

Its PDF, RDF, AGS, and other emergency services.

The PDF also have a large pool of retired personnel that can be reactivated if required. Id assume the AGS have the same.

The objective is not to ensure every single person does not leave their house. Its to disperse and restrict large groups of people.

TBH, it's not needed anyway, we should big enough boys and girls to realise the dangers of community spread.

Only idiots would be out potentially risking contracting/infecting other people.

Unfortunately, idiots are not in short supply.

daheff

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

TBH, it's not needed anyway, we should big enough boys and girls to realise the dangers of community spread.

Only idiots would be out potentially risking contracting/infecting other people.

Unfortunately, idiots are not in short supply.

We should be....but as you say we have more than our fair share of idiots.

I'd bet shopping centres will be jammers today.

sparky42

An article from Admiral Mellet regarding what the DF will be doing:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defence-forces-to-shift-to-status-yellow-with-330-troops-aiding-hse-1.4202609

Manic Moran

daheff wrote: »

Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

They seem to be talking about up to a company at any barracks being available for use. That doesn't strike me as stressing the DF to the extent that the RDF need be mobilised, and I've not seen that anywhere else.

TheBoyConor

Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.

riffmongous

Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.

Oh yeah?
Big job yourself yeah, doing something so much more important.......

Manic Moran

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.

[MOD]Be constructive, or don't post here again[/MOD]

Negative_G

riffmongous wrote: »

Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?

DF Corps of Engineers are the SMEs in CBRN.

Signore Fancy Pants

riffmongous wrote: »

Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?

Every soldier is qualified to wear and operate CBRN gear.

Every Unit has CBRN experts, including for decontamination.

6541

Currently in Spain, send help now. Everything locked down.

sparky42

6541 wrote: »

Currently in Spain, send help now. Everything locked down.

Coveney has been saying Aer Lingus and Ryanair will be available to fly people home.

Markcheese

Just saw the clip on the defence forces Facebook of the Le Samuel Beckett docking in Dublin , as an aid to the hse .. ( according to the caption ) , there's 4 p60s and the eithne that could be sent anywhere around the coast as mini health centers ... Can accommodation units in containers be put on the stern of the p60s , (I'm guessing the hanger of eithne could be pushed into that roll ... )

kooga

A lot of activity all the day in and out of Collins barracks

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

Just saw the clip on the defence forces Facebook of the Le Samuel Beckett docking in Dublin , as an aid to the hse .. ( according to the caption ) , there's 4 p60s and the eithne that could be sent anywhere around the coast as mini health centers ... Can accommodation units in containers be put on the stern of the p60s , (I'm guessing the hanger of eithne could be pushed into that roll ... )

So far from the Mellet interview they are only thinking about using them for extra testing sites if the HSE needed them.

sparky42

kooga wrote: »

A lot of activity all the day in and out of Collins barracks

Not really surprising tbh with everything going on.

riffmongous

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Every soldier is qualified to wear and operate CBRN gear.

Every Unit has CBRN experts, including for decontamination.

Do you know what the PPE consists of? Suits in particular

What exact is a 'unit' here, brigade with an engineer unit being the experts as mentioned above?

ectoraige

One role that would be useful is decontamination units at hospitals to clean ambulances. At the moment ambulance crews are having to go through sets of PPE after each covid-19 call, and they are going to run out soon. If there were dedicated decon units that could stay suited for longer cleaning multiple ambulances it would preserve PPE for crews. It would also reduce turnaround times, it's taking at least 45 minutes each time.

uck51js9zml2yt

How realistic is the reactivation of retirees?

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

While I completely agree that it's not a willy nilly issue, they would be allowed to bring that law in without the Constitution being effected

Negative_G

riffmongous wrote: »

Do you know what the PPE consists of? Suits in particular

What exact is a 'unit' here, brigade with an engineer unit being the experts as mentioned above?

All personnel in the DF receive CBRN training.

Unfortunately, despite the post above. Personnel may go several years between initial and recurrent training.. This isn't to say that personnel can receive 'refresher' training at short notice.

The Corps of Engineers maintain and compose most of the assets relating to decontamination etc.

The average soldier *should* have access to CBRN kit.

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The Government can declare a State of Emergency and activate Martial Law in the event of an emergency.

No, they can't. Martial law does not exist within the republic of Ireland. The military cannot take over law enforcement in this country. They can only every act alone against external hostile threats.

sparky42

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No, they can't. Martial law does not exist within the republic of Ireland. The military cannot take over law enforcement in this country. They can only every act alone against external hostile threats.

A most basic search shows that you are wrong. All the State has to do is declare a State of Emergency.
:rolleyes: