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Citizenship ruling.

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  • 17-07-2019 4:09pm
    #1
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭


    https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-high-court-residency-continuous-4728401-Jul2019/
    THE HIGH COURT has ruled that nobody can be granted Irish citizenship if they have spent a single day outside the country in the past year.

    The unexpected judgment, handed down by Mr Justice Max Barrett, could affect thousands of people applying for Irish citizenship on the basis of residence in the country.

    Experts called the ruling “absurd”, pointing out that the law on citizenship has never been interpreted so strictly before.

    This is lunacy. A person could lose out because of work travel or a trip to see a dying relative.


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    #2
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-high-court-residency-continuous-4728401-Jul2019/



    This is lunacy. A person could lose out because of work travel or a trip to see a dying relative.

    We need some kind of a logic competency test for these legal types.


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    #3
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    We need some kind of a logic competency test for these legal types.

    The irony of your username with this one


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    #4
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭Allinall


    He's only applying the law as it stands.

    That particular law needs to be changed.


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    #5
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    But if I go on holiday abroad for a week, I'm still continuously resident in Ireland for that time, I haven't suddenly become resident in France, Spain or whatever for that week. He harps on about the precise definition of "continuous" but seems oblivious as to what "resident" means.


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    #6
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    It will be corrected with emergency legislation I'm sure.

    More importantly, what has the govt. and GNIB being doing flouting the law since 1956! :)


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    #7
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Not a very practical ruling considering the amount of skilled foreign nationals driving the economy.


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    #8
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,503 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Alun wrote: »
    But if I go on holiday abroad for a week, I'm still continuously resident in Ireland for that time, I haven't suddenly become resident in France, Spain or whatever for that week. He harps on about the precise definition of "continuous" but seems oblivious as to what "resident" means.

    If the law said exclusive Irish resident or something else to that effect then the Judge might agree but it didn't.

    Resident & Ordinary resident, are define. continuous resident was not.

    By your definition there is no difference between continuous resident and resident.


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    #9
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Alun wrote: »
    But if I go on holiday abroad for a week, I'm still continuously resident in Ireland for that time, I haven't suddenly become resident in France, Spain or whatever for that week. He harps on about the precise definition of "continuous" but seems oblivious as to what "resident" means.
    If the Act does not permit the temporary leaving of the country and states that applicants must have 12 months of "continuous residence" then the law is at fault and the judge is merely highlighting it.


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    #10
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Not a very practical ruling considering the amount of skilled foreign nationals driving the economy.
    How many of them are not from the EU and are looking for residency status?


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    #11
    Jacovs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    How many of them are not from the EU and are looking for residency status?

    I am, so is my manager in work. I literally made an appointment yesterday with a solicitor in town for monday to start my application process.
    Visited family back home in December 2018 and already have holidays booked for coming December too. So according to this I will have to not leave the country for all of 2020 and only qualify in january 2021.

    Edit, actually I have residency status, its citizenship we are applying for.


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    #12
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Jacovs wrote: »
    I am, so is my manager in work. I literally made an appointment yesterday with a solicitor in town for monday to start my application process.
    Visited family back home in December 2018 and already have holidays booked for coming December too. So according to this I will have to not leave the country for all of 2020 and only qualify in january 2021.

    Edit, actually I have residency status, its citizenship we are applying for.
    So ask everyone you know to contact their TDs to get the law changed to allow for temporary leaving of the country.
    It is not the judge who is at fault but the law. TDs are the ones who change the law.


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    #13
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    How tayto packet tokens also you need now?


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    #14
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,982 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    How tayto packet tokens also you need now?
    Go on, have another go at writing that post!


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    #15
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Go on, have another go at writing that post!


    So, how many tayto packet tokens is it now?


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    #16
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    How tayto packet tokens also you need now?

    I don’t understand your question at all.


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    #17
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    So, how many tayto packet tokens is it now?

    For what?


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    #18
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Sure how would they know?


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    #19
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,301 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    kneemos wrote: »
    Sure how would they know?

    Good point. Is there now an obligation on the authorities to check flight data etc for those 365 days?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #20
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    This was discussed earlier on the radio and a solicitor made the point that even one day trip to Belfast would nullify the application. I'm sure it will be changed.


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    #21
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    My husband is a British citizen. He might apply for Irish citizenship due to brexit. We go in holiday at least once a year- so this would essentially mean he wouldn’t be eligible?


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    #22
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    My husband is a British citizen. He might apply for Irish citizenship due to brexit. We go in holiday at least once a year- so this would essentially mean he wouldn’t be eligible?

    As it now stands, Yes.


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    #23
    Jacovs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    kneemos wrote: »
    Sure how would they know?

    My passport gets stamped and swiped each time I return to Ireland. Have to hand over passport when applying for citizenship.


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    #24
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,663 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    My husband is a British citizen. He might apply for Irish citizenship due to brexit.

    Jesus, he should have done that 2 years ago.

    Do it, this week.

    The next time ye go to Spain he will be in a long line and you'll be waiting for him in the Car park.


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    #25
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    My husband is a British citizen. He might apply for Irish citizenship due to brexit. We go in holiday at least once a year- so this would essentially mean he wouldn’t be eligible?

    You need to prioritise. What is more important, a holiday or citizenship


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    #26
    Cheshire Cat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭Cheshire Cat


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    My husband is a British citizen. He might apply for Irish citizenship due to brexit. We go in holiday at least once a year- so this would essentially mean he wouldn’t be eligible?

    Looks like you'll have to go for staycations :(


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    #27
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    Boggles wrote: »
    Jesus, he should have done that 2 years ago.

    Do it, this week.

    The next time ye go to Spain he will be in a long line and you'll be waiting for him in the Car park.

    Nah - don’t care if he has to queue. It’s over €1000 to get citizenship - and as it stands we don’t know what’s gonna happen. I don’t care if he has to queue he can follow me to the hotel where I’m sunning myself :)


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    #28
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    Nah - don’t care if he has to queue. It’s over €1000 to get citizenship - and as it stands we don’t know what’s gonna happen. I don’t care if he has to queue he can follow me to the hotel where I’m sinning myself :)

    Freudian slip I'm sure.😇


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    #29
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    :)


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    #30
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,503 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Sinus pain wrote: »
    Nah - don’t care if he has to queue. It’s over €1000 to get citizenship - and as it stands we don’t know what’s gonna happen. I don’t care if he has to queue he can follow me to the hotel where I’m sunning myself :)

    We don't know what's going to happen between the EU and UK. The UK will have to negotiate for itself with the rest of the world in any case especially going forward.

    It might be easy to travel now to a certain country as you're both EU citizens, but in the future regardless of any EU deal he might need go through a more restrictive or get a more limited Visa for that country.

    If it turns out Iran is a great fun future holiday destination, you get in cuz the EU and Iran are BFF and he doesn't as they keep trying to seize each others ships.


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    #31
    Sinus pain
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    We will worry about it when we know for sure. Sure we will have to wait at least a year now - and in the mean time if there’s a family emergency we will have to wait longer


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