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Internet Porn and Minors!

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    #32
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Fan of Netflix wrote: »
    There is a difference between an 11 year old boy watching extreme pornography on his phone and an adult watching porn or reading Zoo magazine. I don't know how people cannot see that. How can people think children that young accessing that daily is okay??

    I don't think anyone thinks it's 'OK' rather they think that the solution to there being a bee in your kitchen isn't rolling a grenade in there and closing the door. Some people are enlightened and operate on a level above pure emotional reaction.


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    #33
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,310 ✭✭✭wassie


    Agree with others about parenting is the primary factor. I dont plan on relying on government to stop this - technology evolves at a much faster rate than regulators can manage.

    Engage early with kids and have good honest discussion relative to their age.
    Manage their access to the internet and devices, knowing that they will view it at some point, deliberately or accidentally, but at least you will have prepared them.

    Plenty of good, evidence based parenting support out there on the net to help out.


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    #34
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    GarIT wrote: »
    The most effective way to block children's access to porn is to install a filter on your WiFi and then don't give them admin access to any devices where they could install a VPN. That's what I'll be setting up for my much younger sister soon.

    Norton has a good porn filter you can direct your WiFi router to use and it's free.

    Thank you, that is very useful information and good to see you being so responsible in keeping your little sister safe.


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    #35
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,310 ✭✭✭wassie


    The Disney Circle app is pretty useful also but does come with a subscription.

    Also it comes built in to the Netgear Orbi Mesh routers also.


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    #36
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).


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    #37
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    wassie wrote: »
    The Disney Circle app is pretty useful also but does come with a subscription.

    Also it comes built in to the Netgear Orbi Mesh routers also.

    I googled "Disney circle" it and the 7th result was "how to bypass Disney circle" I'm sure any child could do the same search and follow the steps.


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    #38
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    be interesting to make a list of everything these kids did that most other kids do and then offer it up to be banned or not.

    ill start


    eat
    drink
    sleep
    wear clothes
    get the odd haircut


    i mean lads, these kids did a horrific crime ans we're just STANDING BY and ALLOWING OUR CHILDREN to HAVE HAIRCUTS oh the HUMANITY

    puerile stuff.

    There’s no way that a haircut could influence a torture or murder in the way that some torture porn on the internet might.

    It’s also odd that internet use has become so normalised amongst young teens that we merely shrug it off.

    The argument makes so sense so I suspect it’s more about adults who are worried that an age verification might be the first step towards an adult ban or worried about privacy issues.


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    #39
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).

    I don't think kids are that stupid. A kid that wants to look at adult content will be able to type in TOR and click the download button. Some free VPNs work enough that it would spread around. Not that they are good just good enough to allow the viewing of porn even if it's unsecure.


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    #40
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,743 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Should not be up to the Government to parent the children of Ireland. It's up to the parents, makes no sense that the Government needs to step in to do what the parents should be going themselves. This whole idea is pretty much saying that parents today are not fit to have their kids.
    I see it with my own niece and nephew, on smart phone constantly and watching stuff and hearing stuff no kid should be hearing.


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    #41
    TheDiceMan2020
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭TheDiceMan2020


    The moral hysteria brigade really brings out the ignorance that's out there about the internet.

    Even in countries like Iran and China where the internet is strictly controlled by the authorities people bypass it in seconds.

    It's pointless and it's only purpose is to give ignorant fcukers the impression that you are doing something about it


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    #42
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    GarIT wrote: »
    I don't think kids are that stupid. A kid that wants to look at adult content will be able to type in TOR and click the download button. Some free VPNs work enough that it would spread around. Not that they are good just good enough to allow the viewing of porn even if it's unsecure.


    1 in ten thousand maybe, so lets not bother trying ok.


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    #43
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »
    Even in countries like Iran and China where the internet is strictly controlled by the authorities people bypass it in seconds.


    Examples?


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    #44
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    A good starting point imo would be to stop using internet usage and accessing of pornography as scapegoats when people commit terrible acts.

    It would be far more useful to engage with children and young people with regard to their mental wellbeing and what’s happening in their lives that may be having an impact on their reactions to things they are seeing/accessing.

    Just because you might view a violent image doesn’t automatically mean you’re going to go out and do it yourself.

    If such an image provokes that reaction then there is something else amiss that needs to be dealt with, some mental health issue that needs to be looked at.


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    #45
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).

    I think it's more a case of, the ban being implemented as intended is technically unfeasible. And more alarmingly, the Tory party being the Tory party, won't actually regulate it themselves, they'll basically be handing the power of regulation and the personal details of every user to the Pornhub group for free in the vague hope that they don't sell that information on or refuse access to other porn platforms. Perhaps some Tory Party members are getting a sweet backhander, but it's certainly not in the societies interest.


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    #46
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    There’s no way that a haircut could influence a torture or murder in the way that some torture porn on the internet might.

    It’s also odd that internet use has become so normalised amongst young teens that we merely shrug it off.

    The argument makes so sense so I suspect it’s more about adults who are worried that an age verification might be the first step towards an adult ban or worried about privacy issues.

    I wonder what type of smart phone John Venables had in 1993?


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    #47
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,743 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Who even regulates or age verifies amateur porn even on the top porn sites like Pornhub??

    It's all a bit mad. When some girl is sucking off her BF and she could be 15,16,17,18,19, who knows. But millions upon millions of such videos on all the top porn sites. It's strange, who is tracking down all these people down asking for ID? How do porn sites get away with showing amateur porn when it's not age verified ?


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    #48
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I think it's more a case of, the ban being implemented as intended is technically unfeasible. And more alarmingly, the Tory party being the Tory party, won't actually regulate it themselves, they'll basically be handing the power of regulation and the personal details of every user to the Pornhub group for free in the vague hope that they don't sell that information on or refuse access to other porn platforms. Perhaps some Tory Party members are getting a sweet backhander, but it's certainly not in the societies interest.


    A so called "Porn Passport" wouldn't be too difficult to implement, without having to hand over personal information.


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    #49
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Who even regulates or age verifies amateur porn even on the top porn sites like Pornhub??

    It's all a bit mad. When some girl is sucking off her BF and she could be 15,16,17,18,19, who knows. But millions upon millions of such videos on all the top porn sites. It's strange, who is tracking down all these people down asking for ID? How do porn sites get away with showing amateur porn when it's not age verified ?

    Users who post content on the likes of xtube have to provide a scan of their passport. But this is, of course, easily bypassed.


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    #50
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Because kids know what a VPN is and how they work.

    Why roll out an absolutely pointless system which is bound to do nothing and will cost a fortune to implement?

    Education is far more important than knee-jerk reactions.

    There is nothing "knee jerk" about it. This problem has been flagged up for an awful long time now and is being buried by both media and more importantly parents because the phones/laptops/tablets are baby sitting their kids. We also have to talk about why that is and a lot of it has to do with parents both having to work full time employment to pay ridiculous rents/mortgages, long commutes etc... and just being plain flat out exhausted by the time they get home.

    Ireland as a whole needs to question what is more important and i think society, family and community should be more important than economy and unfortunately i would argue this government believes otherwise.


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    #51
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    El_Bee wrote: »
    A so called "Porn Passport" wouldn't be too difficult to implement, without having to hand over personal information.

    How would it work? The UK's solution is to sell the information for £0 to a single porn platform, who will manage the AgeID platform for all users. They've really not put much thought into this at all.


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    #52
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I wonder what type of smart phone John Venables had in 1993?

    There are different kinds of psychopathic behaviour, driven by nature and nurture, by genetics and environment, or a mixture. That one psychopath in the past didn’t need an internet connection and was not influenced by online media doesn’t mean that another person in another age can’t be.

    It’s like dismissing right wing radicalisation caused by the internet by pointing out that right wing white nationalists existed before the internet. It’s not a reasonable argument.

    And remember what’s being discussed here is children’s access to porn not adults. We ban children from doing a lot of stuff.


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    #53
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    cgcsb wrote: »
    How would it work? The UK's solution is to sell the information for £0 to a single porn platform, who will manage the AgeID platform for all users. They've really not put much thought into this at all.

    ISPs could do it.


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    #54
    InTheShadows
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Who even regulates or age verifies amateur porn even on the top porn sites like Pornhub??

    It's all a bit mad. When some girl is sucking off her BF and she could be 15,16,17,18,19, who knows. But millions upon millions of such videos on all the top porn sites. It's strange, who is tracking down all these people down asking for ID? How do porn sites get away with showing amateur porn when it's not age verified ?

    I'll be honest i stopped watching online porn some time ago because i was feeling more and more uneasy about what i was witnessing. We've got to a place where a guy choking a woman with his penis or a group of 10 or more men having sex with a woman is normalized. Also the obsession with making girls look as young as possible is rather bizarre.


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    #55
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    There are different kinds of psychopathic behaviour, driven by nature and nurture, by genetics and environment, or a mixture. That one psychopath in the past didn’t need an internet connection and was not influenced by online media doesn’t mean that another person in another age can’t be.

    It’s like dismissing right wing radicalisation caused by the internet by pointing out that right wing white nationalists existed before the internet. It’s not a reasonable argument.

    And remember what’s being discussed here is children’s access to porn not adults. We ban children from doing a lot of stuff.

    I was replying in response to smart phone use in general. It is ridiculous to claim that pornography makes someone a murder. Ted Bundy tried to claim this but the psychologists dismissed this as nonsense. The pornography available at the time would have been, at best, slightly naughty.


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    #56
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    cgcsb wrote: »
    How would it work? The UK's solution is to sell the information for £0 to a single porn platform, who will manage the AgeID platform for all users. They've really not put much thought into this at all.


    Buy a single use code with your credit card (in the earlier, pre free streaming site days of the internet, the only way for the vast majority to watch porn was to pay with a credit card), similar to phone credit, once entered it allows that IP address to access pornhub etc. I agree the idea of using passport & drivers licenses is ludicrously unnecessary, but they've made the mistakes so we don't have to.


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    #57
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,743 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Users who post content on the likes of xtube have to provide a scan of their passport. But this is, of course, easily bypassed.


    But that proves noting. Some guy shows he is over 18, so he can now post videos. He can upload any content, one thing is for sure the people who upload to pornsites are not the ones in the videos they up load. So they upload some gf sucking off her bf, and no one knows if they are 17, 16, 20,21, 18. The people in all those amateur videos are not age verified, how the porn sites get away with it is incredible.


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    #58
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    I'll be honest i stopped watching online porn some time ago because i was feeling more and more uneasy about what i was witnessing. We've got to a place where a guy choking a woman with his penis or a group of 10 or more men having sex with a woman is normalized. Also the obsession with making girls look as young as possible is rather bizarre.

    ??? surely you control the type of content you watch?


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    #59
    El_Bee
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I was replying in response to smart phone use in general. It is ridiculous to claim that pornography makes someone a murder. Ted Bundy tried to claim this but the psychologists dismissed this as nonsense. The pornography available at the time would have been, at best, slightly naughty.


    Extreme porn has existed since the birth of celluloid, and again we're not talking about adults, we're talking about children, and the effect of hardcore pornography on the minds of 10- 13 year old children for example. Quite frankly I'm amazed by the pushback on this.


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    #60
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    El_Bee wrote: »
    Buy a single use code with your credit card (in the earlier, pre free streaming site days of the internet, the only way for the vast majority to watch porn was to pay with a credit card), similar to phone credit, once entered it allows that IP address to access pornhub etc. I agree the idea of using passport & drivers licenses is ludicrously unnecessary, but they've made the mistakes so we don't have to.

    Where does the money for the single use cards go?

    As a person resident in Ireland I could set up a website, accessible from the UK, that effectively rebroadcasts pornhub for example, I could charge half whatever the card cost and have a nice life for myself on the costa del sol. The site would be blocked, just set up another. infinite riches :D


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    #61
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,743 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    I'll be honest i stopped watching online porn some time ago because i was feeling more and more uneasy about what i was witnessing. We've got to a place where a guy choking a woman with his penis or a group of 10 or more men having sex with a woman is normalized. Also the obsession with making girls look as young as possible is rather bizarre.




    You'd be better off with a subscription to Girls Out West or some other site that produces its own content, you'd know it's all legit and sensual, and intimate and shot beautifully with legit models.


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