Internet Porn and Minors!

Sam Quentin

Why is the Taoiseach waiting to see how the UK's age verification check 'fairs' out before introducing such laws here!? It seems like a no brainer to me and if anything a great start.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/17/online-pornography-age-checks-to-be-mandatory-in-uk-from-15-july

Sonics2k

Because kids know what a VPN is and how they work.

Why roll out an absolutely pointless system which is bound to do nothing and will cost a fortune to implement?

Education is far more important than knee-jerk reactions.

NIMAN

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of smart mobile phones. End of.

Sonics2k

NIMAN wrote: »

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of mobile phones. End of.

Explain your logic there?

The case was an absolutely tragedy, but literally thousands of kids in Ireland have smart phones and would never commit such a crime.

Woke Hogan

NIMAN wrote: »

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of smart mobile phones. End of.

Kids don't just use smartphones in school, many of them have access to smartphones at home.

cgcsb

NIMAN wrote: »

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of smart mobile phones. End of.

What? You think that smart phones create monstors?
Best tell the parents of Jamie Bolger your solution.

kneemos

Wasn't there a privacy issue with presenting ID and accessing a porn site?

Timberrrrrrrr

NIMAN wrote: »

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of smart mobile phones. End of.

More rapes/murders are carried out by adults than minors, sure lets just close down the internet and go back to mobile phones of the 90's.

Age verification is never going to work, as pointed out kids these days are tech savvy and know how to easily bypass these checks. Education by schools and more importantly parents is what's needed.

Omackeral

OP is now on a list after choosing that thread title.

NIMAN

Sonics2k wrote: »

Explain your logic there?

The case was an absolutely tragedy, but literally thousands of kids in Ireland have smart phones and would never commit such a crime.

Of course they would never commit such a crime, but many will access and watch videos that they shouldn't be watching.

We are running the risk of damaging many young minds with access to inappropriate videos.

What they do at home is the parents responsibility, unfortunately many parents don't give a toss.

Panthro

Give them all Nokia 3310s.
Closest thing you'll find to a boob there is (.) (.)

cgcsb

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Why is the Taoiseach waiting to see how the UK's age verification check 'fairs' out before introducing such laws here!? It seems like a no brainer to me and if anything a great start.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/17/online-pornography-age-checks-to-be-mandatory-in-uk-from-15-july

To answer your question, the UK is basically engaging in a programme of bankrupting it's self with a series of unicorn hunts:

-The porn ban
-Brexit
-'Smart border technologies'
-Ferry companies with no ferries
-Trident
etc.

These are all things that consultants have told them, won't work, are too expensive and will be a waste of money, but as a nation they are absolutely determined to get themselves into their third bailout in a century. Last year the UK borrowed £18bn just to keep the lights on, not because they dont raise enough in taxation, they do, they just have a propensity for unicorn hunting. Irish FG, or tory-lite, have been flirting with similar impractical projects designed to bankrupt the state: National Broadband Plan, but the Irish public are more likely to slap that down than the Brits are.


In essence it's a harebrained scheme to solve a problem that doesn't exist, that will create many other problems.

Timberrrrrrrr

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course they would never commit such a crime, but many will access and watch videos that they shouldn't be watching.

We are running the risk of damaging many young minds with access to inappropriate videos.

What they do at home is the parents responsibility, unfortunately many parents don't give a toss.

I'm in a group chat with a bunch of lads i grew up with (18 in the group, average age late 40's early 50's) some of the things they send to the group are shocking and believe me i have seen some sights in my lifetime so it takes a lot to shock me.

Even if you close down every porn site there are still apps like whatsapp where content gets shared.

Father Hernandez

Hamsterchops

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Kids don't just use smartphones in school, many of them have access to smartphones at home.

Kids (primary school) shouldn't have smart phones in the 1st place! Supervised access in school is fine though.

cgcsb

NIMAN wrote: »

We are running the risk of damaging many young minds with access to inappropriate videos.

They used to say that about books and theatre, it's a simplistic point of view. A video can't 'damage young minds'. It used to be close to impossible to access pornography in this country, only 30 years ago, you'd have to be physically in Dublin and know exactly where to go. Still, marital rape and violence was rampant, but there was no divorce so it was grand.

Ten of Swords

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Why is the Taoiseach waiting to see how the UK's age verification check 'fairs' out before introducing such laws here!? It seems like a no brainer to me and if anything a great start.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/17/online-pornography-age-checks-to-be-mandatory-in-uk-from-15-july

Because it's technically unfeasible and would cost a fortune.

He wants to see if the UK system will be declared a failure, in which case we dodged a bullet, or a success, in which case we can implement it at a fraction of the cost because the research and trial/error phase will be completed already

Blaizes

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

The trial that concluded the other day is more than enough evidence we need to ban minors from smart phones until they are at least 16.

Every school should ban the use of smart mobile phones. End of.

More rapes/murders are carried out by adults than minors, sure lets just close down the internet and go back to mobile phones of the 90's.

Age verification is never going to work, as pointed out kids these days are tech savvy and know how to easily bypass these checks. Education by schools and more importantly parents is what's needed.

Something has to be done children can access porn, violent material etc then there is the whole area of children being bullied via social media. I would agree with you that we need more education but that alone is not going to work. Where twenty years ago a teenager could buy a top shelf magazine now they can view live streamed sex or even live killing. Wasn’t there a case about a killing in the US ( young people involved too if I remember correctly) and it is was live streamed and the people watching didn’t notify the police.

There is just so much debate that needs to be had.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

You could release software that makes accessing porn and dodgy sites harder to get to.

It would certainly cut out any accidental porn finds.

Education will help too.

cgcsb

Blaizes wrote: »

Something has to be done children can access porn, violent material etc then there is the whole area of children being bullied via social media.

It's called parenting.

Blaizes wrote: »

Where twenty years ago a teenager could buy a top shelf magazine now they can view live streamed sex or even live killing.

I really don't think such material is in any way easily accessible, unless you know the offender and are sharing content directly.

Blaizes wrote: »

Wasn’t there a case about a killing in the US ( young people involved too if I remember correctly) and it is was live streamed and the people watching didn’t notify the police.

Really?

Sandor Clegane

introducing pointless and silly laws in an attempt to block porn will do nothing more than cause inconvenience to people, maybe concerned parents would be better of you know, doing some parenting and stop trying to push the responsibility of what their children watch onto government and other people.

I or anybody else shouldn't be inconvenienced just because you couldn't be bothered to monitor what your own child is watching online, I swear most people that have kids shouldn't be allowed to have them.

Blaizes

cgcsb wrote: »

Blaizes wrote: »

Something has to be done children can access porn, violent material etc then there is the whole area of children being bullied via social media.

It's called parenting.

Blaizes wrote: »

Where twenty years ago a teenager could buy a top shelf magazine now they can view live streamed sex or even live killing.

I really don't think such material is in any way easily accessible, unless you know the offender and are sharing content directly.

Blaizes wrote: »

Wasn’t there a case about a killing in the US ( young people involved too if I remember correctly) and it is was live streamed and the people watching didn’t notify the police.

Really?

Yes I read about, it was through one of the social media apps. I will try to link to the article I read about it.

amazing that nobody ever seems to think the latest news story *disproves* whatever ideas they had all along

howling for censorship of *whatever i personally think is over the line* is a long-honoured tradition but functionally useless

cgcsb

If the UK go ahead with it, there'll be a short term opportunity (before it's binned), for an Irish entrepreneur to sell porn to the UK consumer at a price point lower than the proposed £5 single access card. Say €5, no ID required, all sorts of content.

Micky 32

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course they would never commit such a crime, but many will access and watch videos that they shouldn't be watching.

We are running the risk of damaging many young minds with access to inappropriate videos.

What they do at home is the parents responsibility, unfortunately many parents don't give a toss.

I watched a bit of porn when i was 13/14 and probably had a good fap in the process. A friend used to find his parents stash and when they were out we’d all go around to his house for a matinee. I’m 48 now and it never done me any harm. Those kids were born evil bast*rds.

GarIT

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Because it's technically unfeasible and would cost a fortune.

He wants to see if the UK system will be declared a failure, in which case we dodged a bullet, or a success, in which case we can implement it at a fraction of the cost because the research and trial/error phase will be completed already

The smart thing to do really. I can't see it working, it's too easy to bypass and once one child does it they will tell others how to. In the worst case it might even push kids from the somewhat regulated internet to the dark web. It's just as easy if not easier to get onto the dark web than it is to get a VPN.

Blaizes

Ok I stand corrected it was an attack. I don’t want to link to the article but it happened a google search would find it. Regarding parenting of course parents should parent but what happens when your child or teenager goes to the house of another child, a child who has internet access. My kids are still too young for phones but it’s starting to creep in ( the whole culture of wanting to have a phone) for the older one and with so much unsuitable content out there my child won’t be getting one for a long time but the culture of phones and internet is out there regardless.

be interesting to make a list of everything these kids did that most other kids do and then offer it up to be banned or not.

ill start


eat
drink
sleep
wear clothes
get the odd haircut


i mean lads, these kids did a horrific crime ans we're just STANDING BY and ALLOWING OUR CHILDREN to HAVE HAIRCUTS oh the HUMANITY

puerile stuff.

Hector Savage

Omackeral wrote: »

OP is now on a list after choosing that thread title.

agents nodding....

Reckless Abandonment

cgcsb wrote: »

To answer your question, the UK is basically engaging in a programme of bankrupting it's self with a series of unicorn hunts:

-The porn ban
-Brexit
-'Smart border technologies'
-Ferry companies with no ferries
-Trident
etc.

These are all things that consultants have told them, won't work, are too expensive and will be a waste of money, but as a nation they are absolutely determined to get themselves into their third bailout in a century. Last year the UK borrowed £18bn just to keep the lights on, not because they dont raise enough in taxation, they do, they just have a propensity for unicorn hunting. Irish FG, or tory-lite, have been flirting with similar impractical projects designed to bankrupt the state: National Broadband Plan, but the Irish public are more likely to slap that down than the Brits are.


In essence it's a harebrained scheme to solve a problem that doesn't exist, that will create many other problems.

I do find it funny that the UK papers especially loved to blame the EU for crazy stupid laws. But now we can see they are more than capable of doing it to themselves

GarIT

The most effective way to block children's access to porn is to install a filter on your WiFi and then don't give them admin access to any devices where they could install a VPN. That's what I'll be setting up for my much younger sister soon.

Norton has a good porn filter you can direct your WiFi router to use and it's free.

With the UKs solution where every site has to restrict access to UK users you can make your PC pretend to be in any other country in a matter or minutes the first time and a click of a button any time after that.

cgcsb

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

There is a difference between an 11 year old boy watching extreme pornography on his phone and an adult watching porn or reading Zoo magazine. I don't know how people cannot see that. How can people think children that young accessing that daily is okay??

I don't think anyone thinks it's 'OK' rather they think that the solution to there being a bee in your kitchen isn't rolling a grenade in there and closing the door. Some people are enlightened and operate on a level above pure emotional reaction.

wassie

Agree with others about parenting is the primary factor. I dont plan on relying on government to stop this - technology evolves at a much faster rate than regulators can manage.

Engage early with kids and have good honest discussion relative to their age.
Manage their access to the internet and devices, knowing that they will view it at some point, deliberately or accidentally, but at least you will have prepared them.

Plenty of good, evidence based parenting support out there on the net to help out.

Blaizes

GarIT wrote: »

The most effective way to block children's access to porn is to install a filter on your WiFi and then don't give them admin access to any devices where they could install a VPN. That's what I'll be setting up for my much younger sister soon.

Norton has a good porn filter you can direct your WiFi router to use and it's free.

Thank you, that is very useful information and good to see you being so responsible in keeping your little sister safe.

wassie

The Disney Circle app is pretty useful also but does come with a subscription.

Also it comes built in to the Netgear Orbi Mesh routers also.

El_Bee

The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).

GarIT

wassie wrote: »

The Disney Circle app is pretty useful also but does come with a subscription.

Also it comes built in to the Netgear Orbi Mesh routers also.

I googled "Disney circle" it and the 7th result was "how to bypass Disney circle" I'm sure any child could do the same search and follow the steps.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

[Deleted User] wrote: »

be interesting to make a list of everything these kids did that most other kids do and then offer it up to be banned or not.

ill start


eat
drink
sleep
wear clothes
get the odd haircut


i mean lads, these kids did a horrific crime ans we're just STANDING BY and ALLOWING OUR CHILDREN to HAVE HAIRCUTS oh the HUMANITY

puerile stuff.

There’s no way that a haircut could influence a torture or murder in the way that some torture porn on the internet might.

It’s also odd that internet use has become so normalised amongst young teens that we merely shrug it off.

The argument makes so sense so I suspect it’s more about adults who are worried that an age verification might be the first step towards an adult ban or worried about privacy issues.

GarIT

El_Bee wrote: »

The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).

I don't think kids are that stupid. A kid that wants to look at adult content will be able to type in TOR and click the download button. Some free VPNs work enough that it would spread around. Not that they are good just good enough to allow the viewing of porn even if it's unsecure.

BorneTobyWilde

Should not be up to the Government to parent the children of Ireland. It's up to the parents, makes no sense that the Government needs to step in to do what the parents should be going themselves. This whole idea is pretty much saying that parents today are not fit to have their kids.
I see it with my own niece and nephew, on smart phone constantly and watching stuff and hearing stuff no kid should be hearing.

TheDiceMan2020

The moral hysteria brigade really brings out the ignorance that's out there about the internet.

Even in countries like Iran and China where the internet is strictly controlled by the authorities people bypass it in seconds.

It's pointless and it's only purpose is to give ignorant fcukers the impression that you are doing something about it

El_Bee

GarIT wrote: »

I don't think kids are that stupid. A kid that wants to look at adult content will be able to type in TOR and click the download button. Some free VPNs work enough that it would spread around. Not that they are good just good enough to allow the viewing of porn even if it's unsecure.

1 in ten thousand maybe, so lets not bother trying ok.

El_Bee

TheDiceMan2020 wrote: »

Even in countries like Iran and China where the internet is strictly controlled by the authorities people bypass it in seconds.

Examples?

AudreyHepburn

A good starting point imo would be to stop using internet usage and accessing of pornography as scapegoats when people commit terrible acts.

It would be far more useful to engage with children and young people with regard to their mental wellbeing and what’s happening in their lives that may be having an impact on their reactions to things they are seeing/accessing.

Just because you might view a violent image doesn’t automatically mean you’re going to go out and do it yourself.

If such an image provokes that reaction then there is something else amiss that needs to be dealt with, some mental health issue that needs to be looked at.

cgcsb

El_Bee wrote: »

The usual myopic, "Ah sure some people might find a way around it lets not even try" garbage, most kids don't know their arse from their elbow IT wise, Deano, Blake etc don't have a clue what a VPN is, they just know what pornhub is, and "free" VPN's are useless anyway. You don't want to have to get a porn passport, I get it, it'll be embarrassing for a while, but it'll quickly be just like the old days of top shelf magazines, people will just go in and buy them, and that'll be that, the world won't end for them. And yeah, some human garbage parents and adults might buy one for their kids here and there, but again, it's like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because sure don't some people break them here and there what's the point? Internet porn is widely available and accessed by young children, and it IS having an effect on their minds, handwave it all you want, but it smacks of the usual Irish attitude of putting our slight personal inconvenience over our social responsibility (dirty word I know).

I think it's more a case of, the ban being implemented as intended is technically unfeasible. And more alarmingly, the Tory party being the Tory party, won't actually regulate it themselves, they'll basically be handing the power of regulation and the personal details of every user to the Pornhub group for free in the vague hope that they don't sell that information on or refuse access to other porn platforms. Perhaps some Tory Party members are getting a sweet backhander, but it's certainly not in the societies interest.

cgcsb

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

There’s no way that a haircut could influence a torture or murder in the way that some torture porn on the internet might.

It’s also odd that internet use has become so normalised amongst young teens that we merely shrug it off.

The argument makes so sense so I suspect it’s more about adults who are worried that an age verification might be the first step towards an adult ban or worried about privacy issues.

I wonder what type of smart phone John Venables had in 1993?

BorneTobyWilde

Who even regulates or age verifies amateur porn even on the top porn sites like Pornhub??

It's all a bit mad. When some girl is sucking off her BF and she could be 15,16,17,18,19, who knows. But millions upon millions of such videos on all the top porn sites. It's strange, who is tracking down all these people down asking for ID? How do porn sites get away with showing amateur porn when it's not age verified ?

El_Bee

cgcsb wrote: »

I think it's more a case of, the ban being implemented as intended is technically unfeasible. And more alarmingly, the Tory party being the Tory party, won't actually regulate it themselves, they'll basically be handing the power of regulation and the personal details of every user to the Pornhub group for free in the vague hope that they don't sell that information on or refuse access to other porn platforms. Perhaps some Tory Party members are getting a sweet backhander, but it's certainly not in the societies interest.

A so called "Porn Passport" wouldn't be too difficult to implement, without having to hand over personal information.

cgcsb

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Who even regulates or age verifies amateur porn even on the top porn sites like Pornhub??

It's all a bit mad. When some girl is sucking off her BF and she could be 15,16,17,18,19, who knows. But millions upon millions of such videos on all the top porn sites. It's strange, who is tracking down all these people down asking for ID? How do porn sites get away with showing amateur porn when it's not age verified ?

Users who post content on the likes of xtube have to provide a scan of their passport. But this is, of course, easily bypassed.

InTheShadows

Sonics2k wrote: »

Because kids know what a VPN is and how they work.

Why roll out an absolutely pointless system which is bound to do nothing and will cost a fortune to implement?

Education is far more important than knee-jerk reactions.

There is nothing "knee jerk" about it. This problem has been flagged up for an awful long time now and is being buried by both media and more importantly parents because the phones/laptops/tablets are baby sitting their kids. We also have to talk about why that is and a lot of it has to do with parents both having to work full time employment to pay ridiculous rents/mortgages, long commutes etc... and just being plain flat out exhausted by the time they get home.

Ireland as a whole needs to question what is more important and i think society, family and community should be more important than economy and unfortunately i would argue this government believes otherwise.

cgcsb

El_Bee wrote: »

A so called "Porn Passport" wouldn't be too difficult to implement, without having to hand over personal information.

How would it work? The UK's solution is to sell the information for £0 to a single porn platform, who will manage the AgeID platform for all users. They've really not put much thought into this at all.