Internet Porn and Minors!

ILoveYourVibes

Panthro wrote: »

If I ever have kids I'll try to keep the smart phone away for as long as possible.

You can't learn social skills from social media.

I think you UNLEARN the social skills you do have.

nihicib2

I've worked in schools for nearly 25 years, primary and post primary, not a teacher. The kids get educated in all matters of stay safe programmes, internet awareness programmes, consent programmes etc.

In my humble opinion I'll tell ye now that in my experience the problem lies with the parents, they buy them these expensive phones, they have no idea how to monitor or set up parental control, age restrictions etc. they see their kids on these devices all day and roll their eyes but do they parent ? No they do not!

I have no idea how many discussions I've had with sensible, good people about how if they were to set boundaries on their kids phone usage, that it would cause a meltdown at home, and I'm like, eh, who pays the bills, who bought the phone, maybe set out rules when you do buy the phone, and keep to them, whose house it it, whose rules are they!

But many parents want to blame the schools, oh they need to do more,educate them more blah blah, erm there are only so many hours in a day, maybe be a parent to your child and get off your own screen and parent them and talk to them and if you decide to buy them a device that can teach them anything from making a cake to watching porn then cop yourself on and take control of the situation.


I honestly would guarantee you all that unless you monitor your teenagers phone yourself you would be shocked by what they post, Kids are smart, they are more advanced but that is no excuse for parents to turn a blind eye and just let them get on with it. just be responsible parents, if you lay down boundaries from the start, well then its a start, Im not saying its the answer to everything, but its a start!

Force Carrier

I think situations like the horrific murder of Anna Kriegel cause feelings of lack of control and vulnerability in society. Random, senseless evil and atrocities - well who can predict those never mind prevent them.

If you create an idea that the perpetrators rather than having agency were in fact directed by some mis-policy or oversight in our societal make up then this is a problem that can be fixed. We're in control. Eliminate the evil influence i.e pornography and then no 13 year old boy will think it is a good idea to torture and kill a school mate.

Sadly we are not in control of the chaos of nature. The existence of psychopaths. Random and senseless killing. Never have been and never will be.

Should we restrict pornography anyway aside from these matters? Possibly, we should certainly educate our children to its false and enervating aspect. Its illusory and occasionally disrespectful and dehumanizing dimension. The short term pay off versus the long term toll? Well maybe. But don't delude yourselves that this has any effect on or will ever have effect on the evil ones and psychopaths that are thrown up as trace elements in our population ever and anon. They will be there.

I once read some headline back in the day that the average 18 year old has seen 11000 murders ON TV AND IN MOVIES. Why not start there?

The average teen runs rings technically round their parents. Can't see how this ban can practically work. In fact it might inspire the next generation of IT whizzes and make computer nerds popular to get round porn filters.

Force Carrier

Force Carrier wrote: »

I think situations like the horrific murder of Anna Kriegel cause feelings of lack of control and vulnerability in society. Random, senseless evil and atrocities - well who can predict those never mind prevent them.

If you create an idea that the perpetrators rather than having agency were in fact directed by some mis-policy or oversight in our societal make up then this is a problem that can be fixed. We're in control. Eliminate the evil influence i.e pornography and then no 13 year old boy will think it is a good idea to torture and kill a school mate.

Sadly we are not in control of the chaos of nature. The existence of psychopaths. Random and senseless killing. Never have been and never will be.

Should we restrict pornography anyway aside from these matters? Possibly, we should certainly educate our children to its false and enervating aspect. Its illusory and occasionally disrespectful and dehumanizing dimension. The short term pay off versus the long term toll? Well maybe. But don't delude yourselves that this has any effect on or will ever have effect on the evil ones and psychopaths that are thrown up as trace elements in our population ever and anon. They will be there.

Well said

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

The average teen runs rings technically round their parents. Can't see how this ban can practically work. In fact it might inspire the next generation of IT whizzes and make computer nerds popular to get round porn filters.

When I was at school one guys parents were tech savy. So e had to be smarter than them.
He was loved in the computer room by both the students and teachers.

jimbobaloobob

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course they would never commit such a crime, but many will access and watch videos that they shouldn't be watching.

We are running the risk of damaging many young minds with access to inappropriate videos.

What they do at home is the parents responsibility, unfortunately many parents don't give a toss.

It begins long before a child sees anything on a smart phone.
Look at the Bo bo the clown experiment.


Banning smart phones you mention but Prohibition has never worked

10000maniacs

Some people are evil. Some people are prone to drug and drink addiction. Turning Ireland into a nanny state is not going to solve these problems. It will just make people who don't fit these categories angry and resentful. Of course Mary and Biddy from the back of beyonds will be happy with this legislation but blanket stuff like this is always idiotic.

beauf

Give them a sim with mobile data blocked and use a router to filter the internet at home.

Of course as soon they leave the house and find free WiFi in a cafe or a friend's house they are unlocked again. Not sure what a parent can do about that. You can install an app on their phone but most won't agree to that or just uninstall it.

A dumb phone won't cut it as most teenagers use discord or Whatsapp or similar as they are free. Another issue is bullying via those apps or social media.

Education is key but teenagers generally don't listen to anyone but themselves.

Iwouldinmesack

cgcsb wrote: »

What? You think that smart phones create monstors?
Best tell the parents of Jamie Bolger your solution.

Sorry to be peandric here but the lads name was James Bulger, not Jamie Bolger. It's just a personal bugbear of mine, he at least deserves people to get his name correct after the horrific way he died.

If you want to filter porn, good for you but don't delude yourself that it would stop in any way the development of evil bastards like these two. As another poster says this starts young. You can spot the bad ones at 5 or 6 already. One 7 year old among a litany of other things tried to push my daughter backwards down a steep drive on roller blades. Luckily I caught him. You could see the glee in his eye hoping she would break bones or worse. He's in his 20s now and is still an evil bastard, but hides it better. Could easily see him doing something like this if he thought he'd get away with it, and doing it solely to inflict pain.

Heres the thing - these kids are often the popular ones and have lots of friends, and their parents think they are angels. They are rarely the stereotype of the nerd in the basement jacking off to horse porn.

From the details of the trial we can see that Boy A was quite a hit with the ladies as evidenced by how excited Anna was to meet him. And don't say she was excited to meet anyone as she had no interest in Boy B.

This isn't something a porn filter will stop. The whole obsession with porn being the cause of all of society's ills is bizarre to me. Sure kids should be restricted from it but it's out there.

Maybe it's violent porn that should be restricted, that stuff is sick anyway. 50 shades of course showed us studies that more women are into that kind of stuff than men.

Plenty of slasher films and the likes too that contributed more to these guys desire for violence than porn, but no talks of banning those.

Discodog

BeerWolf wrote: »

I use THREE, and they've already got an OPT-IN for adult content.

You can get around this by simply using a browser that filters traffic to save bandwidth.

donaghs

Panthro wrote: »

If I ever have kids I'll try to keep the smart phone away for as long as possible.

You can't learn social skills from social media.

I think this is just something that has to be faced-up to eventually. No technological solutions will be perfect. But something will be better than nothing.

Its not an outright ban. There's a lot of hypocrisy here as well.
Lots of adults watch porn, but don't want ever put their hand up or even tick a box to say "i'd like to have access to porn". If this hurdle could be overcome, perhaps progress could be made on regulating children's access.

Seanachai

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s hardly irrational to think that extreme porn affects the minds of pre pubescent or early pubescent children. It has to.

It might be that most children are not affected but some might be.

There's an underlying pathology there though, most that are exposed to it don't develop warped behaviours

Hal3000

It's good that this is finally being discussed. Terrible what it took for us to get to this point. If we can bring parental responsibility into the equation that would be good.

OneOfThem Stumbled

kneemos wrote: »

Wasn't there a privacy issue with presenting ID and accessing a porn site?

A gigantic one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/uk-porn-ban-when-date-privacy-websites-vpn-a8956941.html

The UK at the moment is not compliant with EU privacy laws (so harvesting porn habits of users and sending those to a third party company to look at the identities of all 20 million users is possible for them). The EU isn't pulling the UK up on its breach of privacy laws at the moment, as it would feel a bit redundant with Brexit and all.

The media whipping itself into a frenzy over the Ana Kriegal case is the same old, same old. Boy A also played violent video games and heavy metal if I read the news article correctly. The media was spoiled for choice on this one!

Correlation does not imply causation.

gibgodsman

Its not a case of banning Porn for Minors, its a case of Parents actually minding their children and stopping them in the first place, it shouldn't be the governments job to monitor peoples Children

cgcsb

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s hardly irrational to think that extreme porn affects the minds of pre pubescent or early pubescent children. It has to.

It might be that most children are not affected but some might be.

saying that porn made those boys murder that girl is ridiculous. Could it affect them in other ways? sure.

mariaalice

Its amazing the number of people who only see ban porn and not the nuanced subtle nature of the issue. its almost comes across as entitlement, how dare , society interferes with my fun my entitlement to watch porn. A ban would not work as teenagers would get arond it, but it could certainly be made the norm the children and young teens do not have access smartphone.

It is not a moral panice porn did not make those boys do what they did but it certainly influenced one of them and formed a cultuer that Ana was an object to be used.

There are lots of things that are good for society that interfere with individuals wish to do what they like. An individual cant drink and drive they can't legally drink till 18.

Societies right to protect its self always trumps an individual right to do as one wants.

Force Carrier

mariaalice wrote: »

it certainly influenced one of them and formed a cultuer that Ana was an object to be used.

You have no idea what influenced the boys.
The only people who may be able to speak on that are qualified professionals who meet them and diagnose or treat them.

There is no evidence to support your statement above. Correlation is not causation.

Is unfettered access to porn and/or smartphones harmful to young people? It may be and there is published research to support such arguments. Conflating that issue with the tragic murder in Lucan is without basis and agenda driven.

cgcsb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

IMO free porn should be on the internet. You should have to pay by credit card.

It's like having porn on the telly at three in the afternoon.

Just get rid of free porn. Problem solved.

would a tax help? :pac::rolleyes:

mariaalice

Force Carrier wrote: »

You have no idea what influenced the boys.
The only people who may be able to speak on that are qualified professionals who meet them and diagnose or treat them.

There is no evidence to support your statement above. Correlation is not causation.

Is unfettered access to porn and/or smartphones harmful to young people? It may be and there is published research to support such arguments. Conflating that issue with the tragic murder in Lucan is without basis and agenda driven.

Its not, it very difficult to do empirical research on this becaue there are so many other factor involved home environment, personality trait ect, and by the way I an not saying ban porn.

denis1501

Parents have to take responsibility for their kids and at least make it extremely difficult for them to access certain material. Install Opendns on a password protected router/modem. Monitor your kids smartphones with parental control apps that can't be uninstalled without a password. Use an Internet security software suite like Bitdefender which will report to you on the apps and social media they are using and their location. If they somehow manage to bypass your efforts to twart them then take their phones off them for a month.
It's like protecting your house from thieves breaking in. You lock doors and windows. Install CCTV cameras, alarms, etc. The dedicated thief might still manage to break in but by God it's been hard work for him.

cgcsb

Remember the momo challenge? the Irish media ran with it, AFTER it had been widely discredited as a hoax in other countries. Every semi-computer literate concerned mom from Portumna seemed to buy into it, despite the fact that a simple google would tell you it was a hoax. The Irish media saw a clickable opportunity to sell advertisements and subscriptions. This is similar, the boy had watched porn, we'll add some subjective adjectives like 'hard core', and boom a headline that can be reheated every day for a month and attract clicks from the concerned moms.

mariaalice

denis1501 wrote: »

Parents have to take responsibility for their kids and at least make it extremely difficult for them to access certain material. Install Opendns on a password protected router/modem. Monitor your kids smartphones with parental control apps that can't be uninstalled without a password. Use an Internet security software suite like Bitdefender which will report to you on the apps and social media they are using and their location. If they somehow manage to bypass your efforts to twart them then take their phones off them for a month.
It's like protecting your house from thieves breaking in. You lock doors and windows. Install CCTV cameras, alarms, etc. The dedicated thief might still manage to break in but by God it's been hard work for him.

What do you do about other parents who are not monitoring their child phone or who ambiguous about doing it.

That is why there has to be a cultural change.

Force Carrier

mariaalice wrote: »

Its not, it very difficult to do empirical research on this becaue there are so many other factor involved home environment, personality trait ect, and by the way I an not saying ban porn.

I'm not saying 'don't ban porn'
I'm saying that you cannot state that viewing porn caused the Lucan killing because you simply don't know that.

mariaalice

cgcsb wrote: »

Remember the momo challenge? the Irish media ran with it, AFTER it had been widely discredited as a hoax in other countries. Every semi-computer literate concerned mom from Portumna seemed to buy into it, despite the fact that a simple google would tell you it was a hoax. The Irish media saw a clickable opportunity to sell advertisements and subscriptions. This is similar, the boy had watched porn, we'll add some subjective adjectives like 'hard core', and boom a headline that can be reheated every day for a month and attract clicks from the concerned moms.

Are you realy comparing an internet hoax to a 12 year old child with 12000 Porn images on his smartphone?

mariaalice

Force Carrier wrote: »

I'm not saying 'don't ban porn'
I'm saying that you cannot state that viewing porn caused the Lucan killing because you simply don't know that.

That true maybe I put it too strongly, , put it this way even though I dont have any evidence of this, I personally think a 12/13-year-old boy with 12000 porn images on his phone could possibly have had an influenced on him in some way.

OneOfThem Stumbled

mariaalice wrote: »

That true maybe I put it too strongly, , put it this way even though I dont have any evidence of this, I personally think a 12/13-year-old boy with 12000 porn images on his phone could possibly have had an influenced on him in some way.

Maybe.

And maybe the fact that he disliked homework influenced him in some way (MacNamee, 2019). Some say that those who dislike homework are more likely to come from less well-disciplined homes and may be more susceptible to a lack of self-control.

If your immediate reaction is "well, what 13 year old doesn't hate homework? What does that tell me, exactly?" that would be a correct reaction. However, it is the same reaction that could be had to your assertion.

Force Carrier

If you assume that they were normal in the first place then you are looking for an intervening step in the process. A step at which point they became 'bad' or 'mad'. And then committed a crime. That sequence is based on the assumption they were normal and without pathology to begin with.

If they were psychopaths who were predisposed to violence and sexual violence then I would expect nothing other than to find violent porn on their internet history. And expect that if the right circumstances aligned that they would violently assault other people.

In terms of outside influences I wonder who introduced them to satanism. That came from somebody or some group they interacted with somewhere at some point.