BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

LXFlyer · 06-06-2022 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163906#Comment_119163906

The OPW really need to cop on here. Widening the gate really is the only solution here. They are expecting the impossible to happen.

The N2 needs to be operated by standard width buses and the necessary infrastructure put in place to allow it happen.

It's likely that it is going to be a very busy bus route as it will link the Phoenix Park with:

Heuston Station and the Red Line LUAS
Broombridge Station and the Green Line LUAS
Clontarf DART Station
Numerous BusConnects Spine

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 9:59am

I'm not sure why they don't just use Ashtown exit and link the 145 to the train station / future dart at Ashtown.

This has been going on for months.

Peregrine · 06-06-2022 10:01am

Just widen the bloody gate.

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2022 10:32am

Am I missing something here what route is operating via the Phoenix Park as I don't see any on the BC map. Some here are mentioning the N2 but the map has that as operating via Infirmary Road, North Circular Road and Blackhorse Avenue but not the Phoenix Park.

LXFlyer · 06-06-2022 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164358#Comment_119164358

The notional plan that the NTA put forward subsequently is to re-route the N2 via the Phoenix Park rather than take the route on the map.

LXFlyer · 06-06-2022 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164202#Comment_119164202

Because the N2 is a long term solution and offers far more connectivity.

The 145 won't exist after the E Spine is implemented next year.

LXFlyer · 06-06-2022 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164216#Comment_119164216

Remember that the OPW have form - they refused permission for bus stops to be installed on the footpath along St. Stephen's Green North - instead we ended up with poles put into the road, and then slewed diagonally inwards to allow for the necessary room to avoid near side mirrors making contact.

I fear that this will keep on going until politicians step in.

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164547#Comment_119164547

Okay I see. However, given that the Phoenix Park Visitor Centre is to be served, it could make more sense to continue a bus route a little further to Ashtown gate rather than doubling back to Cabra gate.

markpb · 06-06-2022 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164603#Comment_119164603

Politicians seem to be incapable of stepping in when OPW are involved. They wield more power through sheer stubbornness than most other government agencies.

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164547#Comment_119164547

@LXFlyer , what do you think is the advantage of the N2 going through some of the park versus a dedicated bus that focuses on a loop of the whole park, including sites such as the Magazine Fort?

I suggested the N2 route going through Ashtown gate, but I think this would defeat the purpose of the East-West northern orbital. You would leave Heuston, travel quite a bit west before going east again all the way to The Point.

A dedicated local route of the park from Heuston, let's say, could interchange with N2 at Cabra gate without the bus going through the gate. The N2 could stay as originally intended. This dedicated park route (either one directional or both directions) would provide excellent access to every amenity in the park.

StreetLight · 06-06-2022 2:43pm

This type of standoff with the OPW has been going on for years.

Remember when Dublin Bus lost the 76 route to Go Ahead in 2019? There were plans, schedules and rosters drawn up for the buses saved from the 76 for a new route 90Z, operating between Tara Street DART Station and the entrance to the Zoo. The OPW refused to permit regularised bus stops to be placed along Chesterfield Avenue and so the plan fell apart.

LXFlyer · 06-06-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165351#Comment_119165351

First of all, the N2 will terminate at Clontarf Road DART Station, not the Point. Perhaps it would be worth looking at how the proposed network when complete will look - check the map here: https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/big-picture-map-170920-oe-web.pdf

If the OPW are serious about providing public transport access to the Phoenix Park then allowing a route that interchanges with all rail and tram lines in the city, and crosses the H, D, A, E, F, B and C Spines access to the park is critical.

A bus purely from Heuston will not remotely deliver the reach that the N2 can.

To get to Heuston under the new network requires most people in Dublin to undertake at least one change of bus/tram/train, and what you suggest would require a second change. Every change you add to a potential trip puts people off using public transport. Hence I certainly believe that the N2 is the best fit in terms of a route through the Park.

If the OPW want to have an internal Phoenix Park shuttle, then that really is up to them. But it should not be the main public transport access route to the Park. It should be internal to the Park.

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165470#Comment_119165470

Okay great thanks. Yeah it makes sense having the connection to all the spines. Understood.

OPW should consider a local park shuttle, but I agree - this is a separate matter.

The OPW need to start bringing constructive solutions to the table. It makes no sense to stand in the way of enhanced public transport in the park. The best way to reduce car traffic, which they absolutely support, is to support PT.

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2022 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165447#Comment_119165447

Didn't know that I remember hearing about that route at the time didn't know what happened to it. I find it strange they'd have a problem with a regular service bus operating in the park but not the Hop on Hop off buses.

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2022 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165470#Comment_119165470

I'm not actually sure does the Phoenix Park really need a bus operating within it. I mean the main attraction the zoo is only a short walk to Infirmary Road for the 46a or the O when it starts operating. Parkgate Street and Conygham Road are also very nearby as is Castleknock Road for the other end of the park. Hueston also isn't terrible far walking wise either.

I don't really see the need to divert a route like the N2 away from areas where people actually live and work to serve the Phoenix Park is that wise an idea and shouldn't really be a priority for a project like Bus Connects but that's just me personally and I could be proven wrong.

There was a shuttle bus serving the Phoenix Park over 10 years ago and it wasn't very sucessful and I don't remember it lasting very long. https://www.flickr.com/photos/infomatique/4204505678

DaBluBoi · 06-06-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166445#Comment_119166445

I agree. Besides, both the N2 and O go right past the entrance to North Road, which is around a 10-15 minute walk to Dublin Zoo. It wouldn't make much sense to reroute a critical route to go through an area that is already, in my mind at least, adequately served. Perhaps a peak Local like the L91 that goes from Heuston to say Castleknock through the park could be introduced, though wouldn't change anything else

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 8:31pm

I never heard of that shuttle service. Granted I was a student in Dublin and didn't live in the area. However, it launched in 2008 at the start of global recession. It also only ran every hour. This is not a turn up and go service. Even every 15minutes would enable that.

It sounds like it was doomed to fail. Not to mention the huge push to PT, active travel and the huge increase in general traffic since 2008.

I would have higher hopes it would succeed this time around. There are also more amenities in the park other than the Zoo such as Farmleigh, Visitor Centre, Papal cross, Magazine Fort. It has take a very long time, but the people of Dublin have finally realized the huge value that the Park offers.

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166622#Comment_119166622

I hear your point but would disagree. COVID has changed lives for a lot of people. We spend more time in our parks than ever before. People WFH or have reduced hours, which has increased the time we have to visit parks.

The bus service and BusConnects is not aimed at peak commuters only, nor is it a service for retired people who are more likely to plan and avail of an hourly service. I for one would benefit from a regular service into the heart of the park.

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2022 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166736#Comment_119166736

Absolutely I agree the bus service is not just for commuters but the whole purpose of a public park is for exercise and recreation so it's hardly a big deal to walk 10-15 mins to get to the main part of the park.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be buses operating in the park at all I'm just saying that bickering over the width of a gate shouldn't be a key element of the bus connects plans.

brianc89 · 06-06-2022 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166790#Comment_119166790

If there is one thing we can all agree on, is that "bickering over the width of a gate" is comical and borderline insulting to the public, to whom these companies are meant to serve.

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166949#Comment_119166949

Is it as bad as Northwood residents who actively objected to a bus being routed through their estate.

DaBluBoi · 06-06-2022 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167110#Comment_119167110

Was that for the E1, by any chance?

jd · 06-06-2022 10:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167110#Comment_119167110

When was that? The latest SHD applications had observations made by residents that it should be a condition of any planning permission given that construction should not be allowed start until Northwood Management come to an agreement with the NTA re the E1 terminus.

LXFlyer · 07-06-2022 7:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166445#Comment_119166445

Plenty of people work in the Phoenix Park too! ;-)

Also, I would say, slightly tongue in cheek, that the recent furore over parking in the Phoenix Park also lifted the lid on a large group of people for whom walking from the 46A terminus or Heuston is a bridge too far.

But coming back to reality, I do believe that re-routing the N2 into the Phoenix Park makes a lot of common sense. The Park is a major traffic generator, and having the N2 run through it would improve access to the Zoo and all the other amenities that that Park has to offer, with connections to all of the rail lines. I would suggest that improving access to amenities such as the Phoenix Park is an important aspect of developing the public transport network in this city.

As for the section of route that would be altered, I think that to be fair, it would be adequately served with the 37 along Blackhorse Avenue and the O along the NCR and Infirmary Road, so re-routing the N2 isn't such a big deal as you might think.

It's the connectivity that the N2 brings that is key in my mind particularly with the rail network.

I don't think putting forward an example of a very low frequency, stand alone non-integrated and poorly promoted shuttle bus service is much of an argument. That bus service was doomed from the start.

I really do think that integrating the Park into the city bus network using low emission electric buses is a positive thing.

Citrus_8 · 07-06-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166445#Comment_119166445

That shuttle route was too long, and fares were too steep as for such a local route.

devnull · 07-06-2022 11:08am

Note that the Phoenix Park Shuttle was originally every half hour but was cut to every hour due to low passengers.

As has been previously said it was very poorly advertised and had no real proper connection with the bus network. They really made a great effort with the livery though!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cityswift/28455843340/in/photolist-KmxCQC-Kbz7hs-LW7omH-NyBFih-29nZLut-TWBsZv-2aBJQdW-VCzbwR-bo5NLD-29rRG8y-Qk2zTb-nQo64G-HATfmY-HxBmwP-HxBk36-4YyqGH-GJbWdS-HATd6A-PhqdRo-NX39zU-2gXcb4D-NWeuGw-Ng4vr4-PskM3w-PsVUQs-Pupb42-PrebDj-2nq5drF-UQiTZK-PreaG9-2axby4t-eFDbro-VnZaYW-853kby-PoZSpF-KH4dFy-Up2VNi-V3qc2f-bsJexS-9Q2hCS-JcCtN8-VCzStV-RJU4pb-f79GKm-bgPF44-pBuSwo-UkWYcA-9Q2cq7-ccCXzY-9PYoGc

thomasj · 07-06-2022 11:35am

Am hearing that the N4 is starting to pick up more passengers now .

Has been picking up more passengers following the St Anne's concerts and in general people getting on after the DART at killester..

A lot good feedback

mikeybhoy · 07-06-2022 1:49pm

My point about the previous Phoenix Park service was in relation with the talk of the OPW introducing their own separate park specific bus service rather than the talk of a regular service route serving the Park.

My point was that type of service has already been done why would it be a success a second time around. Not to do with the introduction of a regular service route which the N2 would be.