BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

cgcsb

What's the point of the cycle lane going down the hill. Surely it's the up hill direction that you need to have a cycle lane.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170819#Comment_119170819

Yeah, I think that's a big mistake.

Going down Santry Lane today, I spotted that the bus stop outside the hazelwood student accommodation had a KL01 route included beside the N6.

I wondered what it was and some digging turns out it’s a keelings retail bus. Found it somewhat odd it was marked on the stop head. Are other private business buses also included (I’m thinking the buses out to IBM/Intel etc)?

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172191#Comment_119172191

Yeah seems a bit odd and confusing alright

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172191#Comment_119172191

Arguably those bus routes are providing a bus service and the passengers will need to know where they can board. Adding a route plate to a TfI bus stop beats another pole and another sign being installed into the footpath and adding to the clutter.

LXFlyer

The Keelings and IBM routes are (bizarrely) licensed commercial bus routes as opposed to private hire services which you would think they would be.

So, arguably they are open to anyone to use them.

The Intel shuttle from M3 Parkway is a private hire.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172550#Comment_119172550

What would be the fare and what would happen if you turned up to board one?

In the same area, when you go on the TFI app, the Crowne Plaza to Dublin Airport bus shows the departures. They used to take non hotel guests as passengers when express bus operated the route for €2. But they don’t anymore.

Is this a fully licensed service too? Could you argue that you should be allowed to travel?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172695#Comment_119172695

You’d have to ask the operator that kind of question.

I can’t see the crowne plaza shuttle in the list of licences anymore. Presumably it’s now a private hire and shouldn’t be on the TFI app.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/commercial-bus-services/view-list-of-current-licences/

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170819#Comment_119170819

The bus lane is a cycle lane - not saying it's a good idea but if they put a separate cycle lane southbound, then they have no space for a cycle lane northbound, this way they can say they've provided cycling "facilities" in both directions.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172946#Comment_119172946

Saying that you've provided cycle facilities in both directions isn't the goal, making cycling safer and easier im both directions is. DMURS and other standards are clear on this, if there's a choice between a cycle lane on one side or the other, gradient is the decider and that hill is a mo-fo. The NTA have applied this logic elsewhere, for example the prussia Street section of the blanch corridor. I would not fancy cycling up that hill on front of a double decker bus and I'm sure bus passengers wouldn't want me to either. Its certainly not going to achieve any modal shift because no novice urban cyclist is going to attempt it.

Also not a great start for the new g spine which should be standard setting instead of crawling up wine tavern st behind cyclists.

There's another major issue that bus connects faces, the quays haven't had any enhanced bus priority measures, and there are no plans to

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174904#Comment_119174904

Is there an actual hierarchy? I personally feel safer going fast downhill in a cycle lane than slower uphill in one. If you encounter something dangerous like like some debris on the road, at least you can swerve in a cycle lane. Less likely to be an issue at slow speeds going uphill.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174904#Comment_119174904

I agree, putting lanes on uphill sections should the priority, but I'm suggesting that may be their reasoning for this design.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177426#Comment_119177426

It's easier to do at speed similar to cars. You can slow your decent with your breaks.

If cyclists have to use the uphill bus lane they will delay buses and it'll be too intimidating for novice or weak cyclists.

Brian CivilEng

I gave the N6 a try. Just missed one, but the next one came 7mins later, so no 17a style half hour waits there. However, other than that for my journey east of Santry it was just the same old 17a with that trundle through Beaumont Hospital. I know the hospital needs to be served but surely there is room for every other bus to by-pass it without ruining the timetable too much.

For my own Airport to Raheny journey, the 16 to N4 to DART route is still 10mins faster than the 16 to N6 to H1 (or walk) option.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177638#Comment_119177638

If every other bus bypassed the hospital you would ruin headways for the rest of the route - two buses would then be travelling together and then there would be a large gap before another two buses.

You have to have a standard routing.

Brian CivilEng

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177897#Comment_119177897

Yeah, would need to be a whole other route entirely. Shame, but the hospital needs to be served and it is not well designed for bus access, plenty of places where buses going the opposite direction can't pass one another.

I reckon it may be possible to get off the bus on kilbarron rd before the turn into the hospital, walk to the stop after the hospital and catch the previous bus. At the very least you'd be getting back on the bus you got off.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178052#Comment_119178052

Now imagine the amount of traffic there once the A1 gets introduced :D

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119178957#Comment_119178957

I'd remove ramps in that Hospital Road section where buses go between the Beaumont Hospital stop and Kilbarron Road, and make the stretch of the road buses only. Ramps currently slowing down a lot. Another option is to make the circular one way traffic around the hospital campus. A traffic would flow better but probably would add a few extra minutes...

Just the whole location of the hospital around the residential houses and away from main road is very inconvenient. I'd probably do a shuttle bus to the main bus stops without a need of diverting the main buses through these roller coaster roads which made me sick I once took 17A.

Unfortunately transport infrastructure around Beaumont just isn’t good enough and any frequent bus through it will face problems. The Coolock side approach has been terrible traffic wise since the 17a start going in. The Beaumont side that the 104 uses currently is a good bit better. Then when you do get to the stops you’ve buses delayed behind people parking their cars with the hazards on for ‘just a few minutes’.

I think the powers that be have started to acknowledge this with its new routes. The 17a has essentially been shortened as the N6 - should at least improve reliability. The A1, L82 and the 8 will all start in the hospital so only one potential pinch point there rather than 2 if you’ve a bus going in or out. Can see problems with the D4 however.

The most laughable thing of all is that a decent bus Lane sits on the Oscar Traynor past Northside shopping centre unused all day except for a few peak 27b’s into clonshaugh.

dublinman1990

Dublin Bus has said on it's website that it's to cut 3 departures on the X27 t/t & 1 departure on the X28 t/t on Monday the 13th of June. They say that it's due to low demand for bus services during the peak time.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Service-Adjustment-Monday-13-June-2022/

Services being cut from the X27/X28 are listed below.

X27

07:10 - Celbridge to St. Stephens Green

07:30 - Celbridge to St. Stephens Green

17:06 - Leeson St. to Celbridge

X28

17:30 - Leeson St. to Celbridge

mikeybhoy

Noticed alot of the bus stops in my area have their heads replaced by Green/Yellow ones and the poles repainted yellow don't see what's the point on this if every stop is going to be replaced by a new one over the next few years.

p_haugh

It's the same for the GAI stops all around south Dublin, heads replaced and timetables replaced (only for the poles though, shelters still have the old TFI-style timetable)

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180555#Comment_119180555

Funny thing about the 17.30 X28 is that it's supposed to depart pretty much in tandem with (1 min after) the 17.15 ex UCD - and although the 17.30 is scheduled to arrive at terminues before the 17.15, I can see why it'd be relatively empty based on just that city centre section's timings!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180180#Comment_119180180

One of the massive problems with Beaumont is - or at least used to be! - the car park queues in the morning. Looking at the 104 timetable ex Clontarf, while the 7.47 would get stuck in Shantalla Road traffic, the 8.50 was almost invariably bound to lose time in Beaumont Hospital because of the queue of cars waiting to get into the multistory car park. Could easily reach 10-15 minutes lost because of cars coming in from both Beaumont and Coolock sides.

As somebody who commuted on the 17A from Coolock to DCU for the better part of two years however - yes, Beaumont Hospital can be nausea inducing, especially since DB drivers were less... restrained... on those corners there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119177897#Comment_119177897

It wouldn't be so close most of the time, but it would end up in a 5-15 pattern (where there aren't running time changes anyway!). I usually would assume about 2m30 or 3m to get in and the same to get out, so that's 5-6 minutes that'd be cut out of the route.

Of course I don't approve of the idea either! ;)

mikeybhoy

The problem with Beaumont and Connolly Hospital is public transport access seems to be very much an after thought. The roads are not wide enough wouldn't surprise me if it's caused collisions there too.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119142715#Comment_119142715

Yes that's true shouldn't have been too much of an issue with the N4 though as it's not too different to the 17a which was Harristown operated when DB had it.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186385#Comment_119186385

It was over 3 and a half years ago that the 17a was handed over to Go Ahead though, so that argument doesn't exactly stack up...

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180555#Comment_119180555

It's not surprising. It was planned really badly. The 67X which those buses replaced used to go from Maynooth to Belfield/Leeson St via Celbridge. The X27 and X28 now terminate at Salesian college rather than Maynooth, which is infuriating as it over halfway between Celbridge and Maynooth, so why not go the whole way to Maynooth. They are also terribly times. I've often seen three X buses to Celbridge literally directly together in the evenings, and then no further buses for another half hour. I don't know why the timetabling for the X25/X26 and X27/X28 are so poor, but there are massive gaps in services and then two or three buses scheduled to run in tandem.

TranslatorPS

The X27 and X28 now terminate at Salesian college rather than Maynooth, which is infuriating as it over halfway between Celbridge and Maynooth, so why not go the whole way to Maynooth.

Why have Maynooth traffic mix in with Celbridge traffic to begin with, when these Xpresso services are meant to be set-down only in the suburbs, so they're not meant to be bringing anything towards local connections there?

thomasj

On a n4 tonight heading towards blanch. Packed to the brim with revellers coming home from Raheny

baingal nancer

The N4 is becoming a very frustrating bus to be on with all this stopping at random stops for 3-5 minutes, they've obviously made a balls of the timetables