BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202599#Comment_119202599

They will iron out, just need more time for observations and more data.

odyssey06

Twice now I've seen 2 N4s heading towards Point Village bunched up together at Killester - once at lunchtime, once in the evening.

p_haugh

When I tried it out between Clontarf Road -> The Point on the bank holiday Monday last week, there was bunching evident - seen 2 Blanch bound buses passing by Westwood in the ~5 minutes between me leaving the station and getting on the N4 heading to the Point.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203095#Comment_119203095

Don't see it being a big problem when a frequency is every 10 min. Easily can happen due to traffic conditions. It would be bad if many buses be like that but just a few once off examples is very usual.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119203363#Comment_119203363

Yeah hardly something to be worried about too much. If it was one bus every 30 mins and there was bunching then I'd be concerned but at every 10 mins hardly surprising happens everywhere.

cgcsb

We need proper orbital and radial bus corridors that are effectively enforced and can deliver reliable journey times at all times of the day.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204272#Comment_119204272

Good luck with that on much of the proposed S2 and S4 routes. It’s going to be a very tall order!

LXFlyer

I have to say that I’m becoming increasingly concerned about the levels of cancellations or curtailments that are taking place, and it raises the question in my mind of whether the rollout of the new network should be put on hold until the bus companies can staff their operations adequately.

This morning four GAI route 18 departures in a row eastbound are cancelled, and that happened one day last week too. Three Dublin Bus route 15b departures in a row were cancelled last night, and I’m seeing numerous cancellations or curtailments on cross-city routes every single day, and it seems to be getting worse.

Bus Éireann have multiple cancellations in Sligo again today and most days - the 458 doesn’t seem to ever have a day without buses being cancelled. Their Athlone service has a whole load of cancelled services too.

GAI have also the usual plethora of cancelled services on their regional 120 & 126 routes.

All of this is down to driver shortages, which I can understand to a degree as it’s across all industries.

But it makes NO sense to me to be expanding the network when they can’t staff the existing services. It’s this lack of reliability that will put people off.

Should there be an emergency timetable put into operation across the PSO network that is deliverable?

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205310#Comment_119205310

Not to mention the potential recession on the horizon...

IMO they should probably start reducing the frequencies on certain underperforming bus routes. The L58/L59 instantly pop up in my mind, from the couple of times I've been in them the most amount of passengers I saw was around 5.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205439#Comment_119205439

I think focussing on the here and now is what’s needed - not what might happen.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205611#Comment_119205611

Which is why I suggest they should start cutbacks immediately. I was merely mentioning the possible recession because I don’t think anyone would be onboard with a second “Network Direct”

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205310#Comment_119205310

It's only going to get worse, thanks to a combination of poor pay and conditions, loads of alternative employment options and an aging workforce. Responding with cutbacks would be crazy - they need to invest heavily in their workforce, whether they like it or not.

odyssey06

N4 would have been very popular for people getting to East Point pre covid but place is like a ghost town now.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205310#Comment_119205310

The problems seem to be affecting Go-Ahead more than Dublin Bus although both operators appear to be affected. Always problems in the summer months due to annual leave being taken at this time and compounded by the high driver absences in the last 6 months.

I think introducing summer timetables as was done in previous years should alleviate some of the issues. I don't why this isn't been done.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207993#Comment_119207993

It's been partially done with the withdrawal of the H9 and 68x asides reductions to other expressos, though I do think there is room for improvement. The 77x could be up for the chopping block as well

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207911#Comment_119207911

I’m merely saying - advertise a timetable that CAN be operated and stop adding new routes until the service can be operated with reasonable certainty.

A situation of multiple cancellations such as we are seeing isn’t acceptable.

Tonight there are several 14s, 15s and 16s cancelled, earlier there was a 1hr 40 min gap on the 18 due to four departures in a row being cancelled.

That is just plain ridiculous.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207993#Comment_119207993

isn't that because DB are poaching GAI's drivers as DB have better pay and conditions?

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208567#Comment_119208567

DB aren't poaching their drivers their are going to DB on their own accord

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208825#Comment_119208825

the effect is the same though - GAI hire drivers, train them up, then soon afterwards DB hire them and GAI are short of drivers again. Not saying the drivers shouldn't move for better conditions; it's probably inevitable when one of the companies has to turn a profit, and the other doesn't.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210188#Comment_119210188

It's a good argument for giving the tender of those routes to DB

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208567#Comment_119208567

The pay isn't much better. A driver with a few years at GAI will initially be taking a pay cut if they go to DB. They'll have a slightly better work/life balance though. They'll also have free travel (DB drivers have free travel on GAI buses, but it's not a reciprocal arrangement), ghost buses to bring them to work in the mornings, and will probably find themselves in a garage closer to home. Which makes a big difference, especially to drivers who have to travel longer distances and pay toll charges.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210188#Comment_119210188

Yeah but you're suggesting they are being approached by DB which is not the case they are applying for jobs there so not really being poached.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211623#Comment_119211623

Don't DB pay a lot higher for OT than GAI. Although I think there's less OT going in DB but I'd there's a lot atm and most drivers don't want to do it unless it suits them not the company.

Don't the free travel is a big deal I've seen IE staff flash their passes on DB without issue and I've seen DB staff flash their passes during a ticket inspection on the Luas without issue. I'd say most DB drivers would let a GAI driver travel free.

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207993#Comment_119207993

Summer timetables on the 13, 14, 15, 16s and the like?

There was a 35 minute gap on the westbound 13s an hour ago...squashed like sardines. Happy travelling!

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212907#Comment_119212907

Haven't the 13s always been like that ever since it was "Network Directed", tho? Since CNR was brought into the mix, the reliability of the 13 has gone out the window

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210188#Comment_119210188

It's a huge flaw in GAI business plan, though not one they could have foreseen. In an environment of labour shortages, they can't be competitive to keep their staff. They are subject to fines if they don't provide the service and are also expected to turn a profit.

Seems like a combination doomed to fail in current climate.

CatInABox

In fairness, I think the NTA would be somewhat understanding on this. The fact that Dublin bus are also struggling with the same thing will help GAI.

LXFlyer

Lots of cancellations and curtailments again today

3 x 39a in a row cancelled this morning from Ongar, followed by two more cancelled departures mixed into ones actually operating and one 39 and one 39a curtailed to Bachelors Walk.

Meanwhile, massive cancellations in Donegal by Bus Éireann, along with more in Sligo, Athlone and Cork.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212158#Comment_119212158

Yes, for a company that relies so heavily on drivers "helping out" with overtime, I think GAI still only offers time-and-a-quarter. Their Sunday/Bank Holiday pay is time-and-a-fifth. 😮

You'd be surprised. There are a lot of drivers (particularly the more "senior" ones) in DB who absolutely do not let GAI drivers travel free. And in their defence, they're not supposed to. It shouldn't be up to them to break the rules. This is something that the NTA should've sorted out, and it's inexplicable that they haven't, as the cost would be negligible.

p_haugh

Anyone know if any of the southern orbitals will be made a 24 hour service? I would imagine it would realistically be the S2/S4 under consideration. Furthermore, will the O route be made 24 hours I wonder - it would make a lot of sense imo, especially since it facilitates easy transfer between most of the other 24 hour routes (assuming each of the spines still to launch will bring more 24 routes with them).