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CRU (formerly CER) review of charging infrastructure

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    #212
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    KCross wrote: »
    I got the same email! They went from saying end of Aug and now we are close to the end of Sept and they are saying "shortly".

    My guess is they are waiting for the minister to make the decision for them.

    I know whats going on, but Ill keep stum just for a few days


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    #213
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you're expecting anything in the budget forget it, the charging network won;t even be mentioned !

    They're rather charge the tax payer 1.2 Billion for useless smart meters !

    The LEV taskforce ( combined DCCAE/DTTAS) are making a very detailed budget submission

    They are asking fir several new incentives and potentially funding for a new interurban fast charger infrastructure.

    Money is actually not the issue , ( the BIK incentive is very likely to be implemented )


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    #214
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can buy energy monitors that connect to the meter, simple and much cheaper. And doesn't need to be sending data to anyone......

    I got one 18 months ago for €50 off Amazon. It doesn't even connect to the meter, it just "clamps" on the live and transmits wirelessly to the main unit in the house.


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    #215
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Funding for FIT and grant for solar PV would be a much better idea !

    not a chance, Im afraid, mores the pity


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    #216
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    BoatMad wrote: »
    KCross wrote: »
    I got the same email! They went from saying end of Aug and now we are close to the end of Sept and they are saying "shortly".

    My guess is they are waiting for the minister to make the decision for them.

    I know whats going on, but Ill keep stum just for a few days
    BoatMad wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you're expecting anything in the budget forget it, the charging network won;t even be mentioned !

    They're rather charge the tax payer 1.2 Billion for useless smart meters !

    The LEV taskforce ( combined DCCAE/DTTAS) are making a very detailed budget submission

    They are asking fir several new incentives and potentially funding for a new interurban fast charger infrastructure.

    Money is actually not the issue , ( the BIK incentive is very likely to be implemented )

    If (and maybe I'm reading between your lines too much) there's a good deal of coordination going on between DCCAE/DTTAS and possibly CER in making this decision, it sounds like there might some joined up thinking going on. Hopefully that's a positive.


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    #217
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,475 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Dardania wrote: »
    If (and maybe I'm reading between your lines too much) there's a good deal of coordination going on between DCCAE/DTTAS and possibly CER in making this decision, it sounds like there might some joined up thinking going on. Hopefully that's a positive.
    Joiined up thinking?
    This is Ireland, remember.
    We will be left with a hobson schoice if you will, ESB given the network due to lack of interest, and then all the incentives won't matter because we will be priced out of runniing an EV


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    #218
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,890 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Cheer up ELM327, it's Friday morning :)

    Everything does look FUBAR at the moment, but surely fast charging will get sorted or will improve within the next year or two.


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    #219
    Orebro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭Orebro


    The minister didn't seem to be well up to date on his brief on Prime Time last night. He also seemed to be of the view that the place gets peppered with FCPs, whereas the ESB guy said the way forward was charging hubs on the motorways. And as usual, actually managed to bring the broadband rollout into the conversation at the end. Nicely done Denis!


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    #220
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Orebro wrote: »
    The minister didn't seem to be well up to date on his brief on Prime Time last night. He also seemed to be of the view that the place gets peppered with FCPs, whereas the ESB guy said the way forward was charging hubs on the motorways. And as usual, actually managed to bring the broadband rollout into the conversation at the end. Nicely done Denis!

    I didn't think he was so bad. He admitted the network was not good enough and said it needed investment. I read between the lines of that to mean that the govt will invest in it.

    Im hopeful of a positive CER decision! Its Friday, im in a positive mental attitude!


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    #221
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Joiined up thinking?
    This is Ireland, remember.
    We will be left with a hobson schoice if you will, ESB given the network due to lack of interest, and then all the incentives won't matter because we will be priced out of runniing an EV

    Certainly DCCAE /DTTAS is now, late in the game acting as a coordinator , and yes CER seai ecars and DCCAE /DTTAS are all round the table

    But yes CER decision is well flagged and it's Hobson choice

    I can only hope ecars don't kill the goose but I'm not hopeful


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    #222
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    I'll add more perspective Monday , when I have updated the IEVOA after our meeting today with DTTAS/DCCAE/CER/seai /ecars


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    #223
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    KCross wrote: »
    I didn't think he was so bad. He admitted the network was not good enough and said it needed investment. I read between the lines of that to mean that the govt will invest in it.

    Im hopeful of a positive CER decision! Its Friday, im in a positive mental attitude!

    Yes gov is looking to invest. Personally they should scale back some of the purchase incentive and put the saving into chargers.


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    #224
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, they need the purchase incentive, they should eliminate the 500 million of our money going to foreign wind energy companies or invest in wind energy ourselves or provide a FIT and incentives for micro generation.


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    #225
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, they need the purchase incentive, they should eliminate the 500 million of our money going to foreign wind energy companies or invest in wind energy ourselves or provide a FIT and incentives for micro generation.

    There's s view that the purchase incentive is in part just propping up margins. ? Rather like house purchase incentives.

    Whatever you'd like , the fact remains there is X amount of budget , first thing out of that is X sales * 10K , the rest is then available
    So given that what would you do

    ( I was asked that directly to day )


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    #226
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would put the 1.2 Billion they want to spend on smart meters and 500 million of the money they will give to wind energy investors to continue purchase incentives, improving the network and providing FIT and grant for micro generation.


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    #227
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can buy energy monitors that connect to the meter, simple and much cheaper. And doesn't need to be sending data to anyone......

    I submit my own meter reading.

    This 1.2 Billion would go a very long way towards upgrading the charging infrastructure.

    Lots of meters are nearing end of life and will need replacement. Your clamp on energy monitor can’t adjust your bill for different time of use. With the additional non dispatchable renewables on the grid it needs to become dynamic and smart meters will allow this. They’ll let you charge your car, heat your water and charge your storage heater at 5pm for a low rate. Smart grids make it easier for utilities to better utilise their infrastructure and lower prices for the consumer.


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    #228
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,890 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    +1

    Smart meters are essential going forward when our use of electricity is set to double over the next few decades, while all or most of it will have to come from renewables.


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    #229
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    ted1 wrote: »
    Lots of meters are nearing end of life and will need replacement. Your clamp on energy monitor can’t adjust your bill for different time of use. With the additional non dispatchable renewables on the grid it needs to become dynamic and smart meters will allow this. They’ll let you charge your car, heat your water and charge your storage heater at 5pm for a low rate. Smart grids make it easier for utilities to better utilise their infrastructure and lower prices for the consumer.

    You can heat water dynamically

    You can't charge your car dynamically , it physically has to be " present "

    Dynamic pricing doesn't suit cars largely used in a a 8-6 fixed timescale


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    #230
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Very little is done to give consumers better value or better service, all this is to make it better for utilities.


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    #231
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    ted1 wrote: »
    Lots of meters are nearing end of life and will need replacement. Your clamp on energy monitor can’t adjust your bill for different time of use. With the additional non dispatchable renewables on the grid it needs to become dynamic and smart meters will allow this. They’ll let you charge your car, heat your water and charge your storage heater at 5pm for a low rate. Smart grids make it easier for utilities to better utilise their infrastructure and lower prices for the consumer.

    I agree, there is more to the smart meters than just reporting your usage. It has long term benefits for grid management. If you don't spend the money on new meters you will be spending it on new power plants.... a billion won't go far then.

    Although, €1.2B is an awful lot of money for new meters. It seems ridiculously high to be honest.


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    #232
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Very little is done to give consumers better value or better service, all this is to make it better for utilities.

    Got it in one mad-lad we agree totally


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    #233
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    BoatMad wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    Lots of meters are nearing end of life and will need replacement. Your clamp on energy monitor can’t adjust your bill for different time of use. With the additional non dispatchable renewables on the grid it needs to become dynamic and smart meters will allow this. They’ll let you charge your car, heat your water and charge your storage heater at 5pm for a low rate. Smart grids make it easier for utilities to better utilise their infrastructure and lower prices for the consumer.

    You can heat water dynamically

    You can't charge your car dynamically , it physically has to be " present "

    Dynamic pricing doesn't suit cars largely used in a a 8-6 fixed timescale

    That's on the assumption that people will buy cars suited only to their daily need.

    I need an Ioniq with 8kWh for my daily commute, my car has a capacity of 28kWh and will can cover my daily usage with its on board charger in 90 mins. Finding a slot in the 12 hours a day to find 90 mins of cheap power shouldn't be so hard.


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    #234
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    liamog wrote: »
    That's on the assumption that people will buy cars suited only to their daily need.

    I need an Ioniq with 8kWh for my daily commute, my car has a capacity of 28kWh and will can cover my daily usage with its on board charger in 90 mins. Finding a slot in the 12 hours a day to find 90 mins of cheap power shouldn't be so hard.

    Most savings accrue from using the asset
    If you want commuters to switch from their diesels you need to be able to recharge fully at hone


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    #235
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You need to think past the current generation of cars, battery costs are dropping very quickly, its been forecast that EVs will reach price parity by 2022. At that point any saving on fuel stops having to cover the the extra cost.

    Cars are not a rational financial purchase for the majority of the population.


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    #236
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    liamog wrote: »
    You need to think past the current generation of cars, battery costs are dropping very quickly, its been forecast that EVs will reach price parity by 2022. At that point any saving on fuel stops having to cover the the extra cost.

    Cars are not a rational financial purchase for the majority of the population.

    yes , I fully expect that the purchase inventories will be scaled back within 2-3 years

    Civil servants would prefer to fund charger and running cost incentives then purchase price in reality


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    #237
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    BoatMad wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    Lots of meters are nearing end of life and will need replacement. Your clamp on energy monitor can’t adjust your bill for different time of use. With the additional non dispatchable renewables on the grid it needs to become dynamic and smart meters will allow this. They’ll let you charge your car, heat your water and charge your storage heater at 5pm for a low rate. Smart grids make it easier for utilities to better utilise their infrastructure and lower prices for the consumer.

    You can heat water dynamically

    You can't charge your car dynamically , it physically has to be " present "

    Dynamic pricing doesn't suit cars largely used in a a 8-6 fixed timescale
    Between 18:00 and 08:00 you can dynamically charge your car, possibly even sell back to the grid.


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    #238
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Very little is done to give consumers better value or better service, all this is to make it better for utilities.
    And being better for utilities , results in better services for the end user.

    I’m involved in a upgrade project in a South American country where they are installing smart meters and the utility is seen lots of benefits including revenue protection, outage management etc and these will see less down and better prices for customers. The my have no renewables yet but will soon and the smart meters willl give them more options then


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    #239
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Funding for FIT and grant for solar PV would be a much better idea !
    No it wouldn’t, thst would only capture a small part of the market. Net metering would be much better than a FIT. Other users shouldn’t subsidies users who want to install PV. There’s also further options out here that are developing well that could disrupt the market such as blockchain.

    There is an additional cost to cover people who install PV. And that’s their usage goes down but the cost of providing and maintaining a grid so that they can pull power in the evening actual increases.


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    #240
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Got it in one mad-lad we agree totally

    There's a first ! :D


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    #241
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ted1 wrote: »
    Other users shouldn’t subsidies users who want to install PV.

    There is an additional cost to cover people who install PV. And that’s their usage goes down but the cost of providing and maintaining a grid so that they can pull power in the evening actual increases.

    Are you having a laugh or what Ted ?

    What about the 500 million this year alone and more to go next year and the year after that, not to mention what we've already paid in the past to foreign wind energy investors , to line their pockets ?

    At least a FIT and installation grant would go a long way towards funding Irish jobs and giving something back to that taxpayer !


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