Proceedure for servicing a gas boiler

JohnnieK · 12-05-2012 11:39pm #1

There is a lot of posts on Boards regarding boiler services over the last while. Between website deals and so on.
I have put this thread up to try and highlight to consumers what should be done when a boiler is serviced and hopefully know what to expect for your money.

A boiler service should take between an hour to an hour and a half (depends on the engineer) If its 15, 20 mins then it's not done right.

The servicing of gas appliances in Ireland is governed by Annex C of the is813 standard for domestic gas installations.

Annex C

1. Appliances shall be serviced by competent persons using appropriate test equipment

2. Appliances should be serviced at intervals indicated in the manufacturers instructions or at more frequent intervals if dictated by the conditions of use and in general at a minimum of 1 year.

3. Appliances shall be serviced according to manufacturers instruction

4. In servicing the appliance the competent person should address the following safety indicators.

effectivness of the flue
safety devices on or controlling the appliance have not been rendered inoprable
supply of combustion air
appliance burner pressure (where applicable)
appropriatness of the location of the appliance
gas soundness of the appliance.

5. The occupier or the person responsible for the premises in which the appliance is situated shall be notified if any of the above are not satisfactory. Where considered necessary a notification of hazard shall be issued.

6. The competent person may decide to affix a warning notice and/or isolate the gas supply to the installation or to an appliance if deemed appropriate.

7. The competent person shall, when appropriate and required, issue a notice confirming the safety of the appliance.

A service doesn't stop with Annex C. Go back to part 3 of the Annex, the manufacturers instructions.
Lets take a common boiler like a Vokera Mynute E. Along with annex C They should:

Check the operation of the appliance and ensure it functions as described in the manual
Compare the performance of the appliance with it's designed specs
Thoroughly inspect the appliance for signs of deteriation especially the flue and electrical apparatus
Check and adjust if necessary all burner settings
Check and adjust if necessary the system designed pressure
Ensure both flue venturi's are clean and free from debris
Ensure the burner and heat exchanger are clean and free
Inspect all joints for signs of leakage and repair if necessary
Carry out an analysis of the flue gases and compare with design specs any deterioration should be identified and rectified

Every appliance has a manual and in that manual are the manufacturers routine maintenance procedures that must be followed along with Annex C.

Regarding the gas soundness test above a lot of engineers would soundness test from the meter as opposed from the appliance with the isolation valve closed. Testing from the meter is more thorough and you should insist on this.

It's going to be very hard for a consumer to know if it's been done right but hopefully this thread will be of some assistance to you before you part with your money.

sullzz · 13-05-2012 9:06am

Very well put together Johnnie , just one thing which i think is very important and which i think a lot of lads never do , a spillage test should be carried out on the boiler and seals replaced when necessary , it only takes a minute to do and i have found so many which fail the test for the sake of a casing seal being not replaced .

DGOBS · 13-05-2012 4:56pm

You mean a 'case seal test' spillage refers to an open flued appliance, and importance here would be on induced or forced draught appliances, and if forced this would be extremely dangerous situation. Any defective seal should always be replaced on any service.

I would be more concerned with the lack of "installation soundness testing and let by testing' which is not included in annex C but is a 100% must for any self respecting RGI when working on a gas installation.

I would also include in a service a check of the central heating system, i.e. all rads working, cylinder balanced, rooms stats, programmers and zone valves.

Also, a check of any open flues and required ventilation to the premises should also be checked in accordance with annex E as would be seen as industry best practice, and a visual check of visible pipework

Stove Fan · 13-05-2012 5:15pm

Check if compartment ventilation is required if in a cupboard on balanced flued appliances.

Stove Fan:)

DGOBS · 13-05-2012 5:20pm

Agreed, but majority of modern balanced appliances don't require it. As per MI

gdavis · 13-05-2012 5:56pm

id always throw the analyzer into the air intake/outer flue too,just to make sure no carbon monoxide from inner flue getting in through seals or corroded flue,and while writing out cert and packing up i have boiler running and test room for carbon monoxide with analyzer too

13-05-2012 9:51pm

gdavis wrote: »

id always throw the analyzer into the air intake/outer flue too,just to make sure no carbon monoxide from inner flue getting in through seals or corroded flue,and while writing out cert and packing up i have boiler running and test room for carbon monoxide with analyzer too

Now that's professional gas fitting:D

There is a certain company that could have saved months of heartache and parts if they had checked their air for combustion, they would have noticed the flue terminating in a alcove with 420mm from the flue to the wall was sucking in its own juices causing lockout on high fire.

Jedstaff · 16-05-2012 10:17pm

Just to say fair play to ye johnnie for this thread! Hope everyone getting a service done reads this first !

DGOBS · 17-05-2012 12:13am

Yes, and I hope in reading this they understand you don't get this service for €40-50 and it takes more than 15 minutes!
If you get that, you may have aswell not have bothered.

K.Flyer · 30-07-2012 3:25pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Yes, and I hope in reading this they understand you don't get this service for €40-50 and it takes more than 15 minutes!
If you get that, you may have aswell not have bothered.

I noticed a fairly fresh sticker on an old Prima from one of the companies that offer Special Offer Gas Boiler Servicing on one of the discount deal web sites.

I asked about the service, how much and long they took.
She said.. " He took the cover off, used my vacuum cleaner on it, said thats fine and stuck his sticker on it, it only took him about 15 minutes... was that not ok? she then asked. !!!!

35euro, 15mins tops, no receipt, no analysis reading, no paperwork of any sort.

DGOBS · 30-07-2012 7:07pm

That customer would have been safer NOT having a service at all!
Plus, if there was no cert issued you should have reported him to RGII

K.Flyer · 30-07-2012 8:27pm

DGOBS wrote: »

That customer would have been safer NOT having a service at all!
Plus, if there was no cert issued you should have reported him to RGII

Lets just say, thats a work in progress ;-)

anthonyos · 30-07-2012 8:42pm

i dont know how to service a gas boiler properly or use an analyzer correctly which pisses me these are things i would really like to know how to do so if anyone has any info or tips for me let me know...

JohnnieK · 30-07-2012 10:49pm

anthonyos wrote: »

i dont know how to service a gas boiler properly or use an analyzer correctly which pisses me these are things i would really like to know how to do so if anyone has any info or tips for me let me know...

Every appliance manufacture has a list of annual service steps that should be done and that along with annex c is what needs to be done. You could start with Vokera they have a very good training day in Kilkenny you would have to do the standard efficient day before you can go on to the HE day. You can do a GIFF course but to be honest I have learned more in the field than I did on the course but it just could be where I done it.

Deffinetly give the Vokera course a go. It will also give you a good under standing of the sequence of operation which comes in handy for fault finding.

DGOBS · 30-07-2012 10:56pm

I would also suggest doing a 1 day flue gas analysis course somewhere, or CPA1 over the boarder, as a gas service/repair guy this is a vital piece of equipment you need to understand and interpret readings from.

anthonyos · 30-07-2012 10:57pm

ye must get on the manufactures courses ..i find the instructors on the gas courses full of themselves and they try to hard to highlight what they know and i dont..how often do vokera run them???il ring tomorrow

DGOBS · 30-07-2012 11:01pm

Is that not a good thing? or do you want them just to cover what you DO know?

It's not about highlighting, it's about teaching you something through theory and practical lessons.

JohnnieK · 30-07-2012 11:06pm

Theres only one who I thought was a tool but most I've met have been very knowlagible and nice guys. Gary71 knows who the tool is I'm talking about

anthonyos · 30-07-2012 11:09pm

who is he

was he one of chevrons crew

anthonyos · 30-07-2012 11:11pm

many of you lads carrying a laptop for boiler manuals

DGOBS · 30-07-2012 11:12pm

Anyone spotted who the new Oftec inspector is!! (bet Gary has)

JK, you calling me names again!

31-07-2012 12:00am

anthonyos wrote: »

i find the instructors on the gas courses full of themselves and they try to hard to highlight what they know and i dont.

Anybody who has learnt enough to teach gas properly should be allowed to be a bit arrogant as that knowledge was hard learnt as they had to deal with the same problems you have now.

I bet if there were proper gas courses instead of the sillyness we have at the moment, courses where the right students get put in front of the right instructors, attitudes would be different, I couldn't teach some of the fruitloops that are coming out as RGI's and if I tryed I could end up a bit fragile verging on homicidal.

As for OFTEC or Friitloop instructors I know nuffink.

31-07-2012 12:02am

anthonyos wrote: »

many of you lads carrying a laptop for boiler manuals

iPad or iPhone if I'm to lazy to go to the van.

JohnnieK · 31-07-2012 8:53pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Anyone spotted who the new Oftec inspector is!! (bet Gary has)

JK, you calling me names again!

Never Tony.

I have been informed who the mystery oftec man is, Lets say I have spent a good bit this year fixing things of his

JohnnieK · 31-07-2012 8:57pm

anthonyos wrote: »

who is he was he one of chevrons crew

No he wasn't a chevron man. I'm nearly sure he is not working for the particular training center anymore.

anthonyos · 31-07-2012 8:59pm

ye i think he is gone now he was a mouth peice ...what do you think of the kane 250 analyser

JohnnieK · 31-07-2012 9:02pm

anthonyos wrote: »

ye i think he is gone now he was a mouth peice ...what do you think of the kane 250 analyser

I use an Anton V2. I've only ever used them in a training center and to be honest I prefer the Anton.

anthonyos · 31-07-2012 9:48pm

Central Heating Combination Boilers: Fault Finding and Repair does anyone no if this covers convectional se boilers and has anyone every got it???

DGOBS · 01-08-2012 8:11am

lol..spoke with Gazza, now I know who your talking about....!

Kane, nothing wrong with Kane analysers, only when it's sent back to the UK for calibration sometimes it
can take up to 3 weeks!! Can have my Anton done here in 3 days (most times) and can't afford to live without it!

Yes a good book, doesn't cover everything, but if you knew it cover to cover you would be well moving in the right direction (yes se boilers are mainly covered)

!RAY · 06-09-2012 4:52pm

Hi All
I have nothing to do with gas servicing. Just reading the threads, never new there was so much involved. Just got mine done about two months ago cost 75 euro, and took about 20 min. How much should a good service cost and what time should it take. For the likes of me all i see is 75-85 euro everywhere, don't mind paying a fair price but whats a fair price. Think there should be a check sheet for the customer. I was getting it done and a service pack from Board Gais but it was 195 a bit to expensive at the moment and not sure if i really need it.
Anyway great thread for information.
Cheers

sullzz · 06-09-2012 6:16pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Kane, nothing wrong with Kane analysers, only when it's sent back to the UK for calibration sometimes it
can take up to 3 weeks!!

Is there not a place in maynooth that does the calibration for kane analysers.

gdavis · 06-09-2012 7:52pm

ray,there is absolutely no chance that your boiler was serviced properly in 20 minutes!!did you get a certificate of conformance?maybe im slow but it takes me anywhere between an hour and an hour and a half to do full service and occassionally longer if its a mare!!

!RAY · 06-09-2012 8:05pm

Hi gdavis
Thats all it took. He took cover off and looked around at parts ,hover, c/0 check and done. Now i did get a reading of c/o and a certificate 75 euro. The year before i got it done with board Gais and it took about 35-45 min 195 euro Gold service pack. Reading the northside leader and looking for someone they all seemed about 75 euro. Have seen it lately for 55euro. I don't mind paying the going rate but what is it.I have no experiences of servicing a Boiler. To be honest it seen's tome that the good guys dont have to advertise , the old saying if you get someone good keep them. Probably go back to Board Gais as i wont the job don't right, but it pxxx me off paying for the name.
Cheers

06-09-2012 10:21pm

Gas boiler servicing has become a bit of a farce, their was a time you payed for a service and amazingly enough got a service:eek:, but servicing has become a cash cow used in different ways to make money first and give customer service or value for money second.

To do a service properly takes time and this can't be cheated upon, large companies look for volume restricting service times to 45 minutes and below, they pay their contractor a small amount forcing them to get the numbers in to make any money, B Gais charge €99 for a service and give the contracter €40.

You have the companies that charge €25-€40 for a service and use the cheap price to get in the door then charge more for parts on faults they find;), cheap service expensive repairs.

Lastly you have the gangsters who can turn up anywhere, who do nothing for their(your) money, they open the boiler and fill out a form and move on to the next €€€

I still haven't worked out how Gas has been allowed to become the new favourite industry for fruitloops, chancers and gangsters but anybody wishing to have their boiler serviced should read the first post by JohnnyK to get a idea of a service, then find a good independent and ring them, ask questions about the service and if you don't get answers you like then try someone else.

There are great RGI's out there, but I have to admit it is getting a bit silly with the amount of unskilled out there, sadly.

gdavis · 06-09-2012 10:22pm

dont think that by getting bg, it automatically means the job is done correctly!!!my advise would be to ring few rgi's in your area which you can get on website rgii.ie,ask them what their service entails,which they should have no problem with and the ones that mention soundness test,let by test,gas rating,checking burner pressures,and anything else that the manufacturer includes as part of the service plus flue gas analysis are the ones u should consider

DGOBS · 07-09-2012 9:28am

Re Kane analysers AFAIK they only ship them to the UK also, stand to be corrected on that.

ServiceGuy · 07-09-2012 11:26pm

I send my 455 to Kane in the UK. Normally turned around within a week. I did get a quote from Maynooth and even with postage and currency exchange it was cheaper direct with Kane. I was actually given a quote which included new sensors which apparently are not required on the Kane 455. Also when it's returned I get a couple of filter cartridges and printer rolls thrown in.

DGOBS · 15-09-2012 11:41pm

All analysers need sensor replacement at some point, the cells are electrochemical so will drift as they dry out and have a shelf/usage life.
Some Kanes I believe use CO2 cells rather that O2 cells, which may last longer AFAIK (PS. luv my sprint and the 3 day turn around I get with it)

esox28 · 17-09-2012 6:21pm

Hey Rgi's, with checking out the boiler casing seal, I would have always done a visual and touch inspection on the seal, is there another way to test the boiler casing seal to insure it is making a good air tight seal ?

bazbrady · 05-10-2012 5:39pm

hey guys i have a gerkros gem superior 95 oil boiler im looking to get serviced properly and have looked up the rgi site for where i live here in dunshaughlin ,meath .theres about ten in the nearer locality but hard to know who to pick?just moved into area so no previous knowledge,just looking for recommendations or previous work done ,pm me if you want, thanks guys:)

JohnnieK · 05-10-2012 5:57pm

bazbrady wrote: »

hey guys i have a gerkros gem superior 95 oil boiler im looking to get serviced properly and have looked up the rgi site for where i live here in dunshaughlin ,meath .theres about ten in the nearer locality but hard to know who to pick?just moved into area so no previous knowledge,just looking for recommendations or previous work done ,pm me if you want, thanks guys:)

Rgi is for gas. See if they do oil too or try OFTEC website.

Billy Bunting · 23-10-2012 4:34pm

johnmolon wrote: »

I have a boiler and I have been doing that for the last 10 years and it works perfect.

And just how do you know that

I imagine smart chaps like you know how to fit cookers and generaly give advice on all things gas, you couldn't pm me your contact details could you.

:cool:

KoolKid · 23-10-2012 6:25pm

@ johnmolon please do not post here giving advice & information on breaking the law.
Posts deleted.We don't feed trolls here...

corkgsxr · 01-11-2012 9:15am

anthonyos wrote: »

many of you lads carrying a laptop for boiler manuals

All on the HTC, easyer. And no risk of laptop being swiped out of the van

The manufacturer courses are very hand alright

Qualitymark · 20-11-2012 3:35pm

Any advice on getting a broken boiler replaced with a modern boiler? I've so far had three quotes:

1) €2,200 to take out the boiler, put in a new Valiant one, blast out the radiators, put in a filter which I'd have to clean out regularly; requires me to enter a five-year servicing contract.

2) €1,600 for the same thing; this guy was also trying to sell me new radiators.

3) €2,000 for a Bax boiler; this guy says blasting out the radiators can cause big problems in an old system; he says they'd drain the radiators ok, and put in a gadget which would automatically clean the system but I wouldn't have to clean it out. He wouldn't require me to enter a servicing contract with him.

What would be the normal price for this? What's the comparison between Bax and Valiant?

jimjimt · 20-11-2012 3:51pm

Any advice on getting a broken boiler replaced with a modern boiler? I've so far had three quotes:

1) €2,200 to take out the boiler, put in a new Valiant one, blast out the radiators, put in a filter which I'd have to clean out regularly; requires me to enter a five-year servicing contract.

2) €1,600 for the same thing; this guy was also trying to sell me new radiators.

3) €2,000 for a Bax boiler; this guy says blasting out the radiators can cause big problems in an old system; he says they'd drain the radiators ok, and put in a gadget which would automatically clean the system but I wouldn't have to clean it out. He wouldn't require me to enter a servicing contract with him.

What would be the normal price for this? What's the comparison between Bax and Valiant?

No. 2 The 1600 does seem too good to be true. What boiler is he installing for 1600?

How old is your heating system ?
Is it copper or gun barrel ?
If it is gun barel you could be asking for trouble by power flushing it.

corkgsxr · 20-11-2012 5:26pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

Any advice on getting a broken boiler replaced with a modern boiler? I've so far had three quotes:

1) €2,200 to take out the boiler, put in a new Valiant one, blast out the radiators, put in a filter which I'd have to clean out regularly; requires me to enter a five-year servicing contract.

2) €1,600 for the same thing; this guy was also trying to sell me new radiators.

3) €2,000 for a Bax boiler; this guy says blasting out the radiators can cause big problems in an old system; he says they'd drain the radiators ok, and put in a gadget which would automatically clean the system but I wouldn't have to clean it out. He wouldn't require me to enter a servicing contract with him.

What would be the normal price for this? What's the comparison between Bax and Valiant?

1600 seems cheap if installing likes of a magnaflow too, be much closer to 2000.

and id tell anyone trying to get ya to sign up to a servicing contract to flog off.

i presume you mean baxi, in which case there a good boiler

Qualitymark · 20-11-2012 5:27pm

jimjimt wrote: »

No. 2 The 1600 does seem too good to be true. What boiler is he installing for 1600?

How old is your heating system ?
Is it copper or gun barrel ?
If it is gun barel you could be asking for trouble by power flushing it.

I got the boiler installed in 1989 or 1990, as far as I remember.

There are copper pipes; sorry, I don't know what gun barrel means.

At this stage I'm half thinking that with the price of gas going up and up, I might be better off to get a solid fuel stove upstairs that would run radiators, if this is possible without the stove being huge.

corkgsxr · 20-11-2012 5:32pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

I got the boiler installed in 1989 or 1990, as far as I remember.

There are copper pipes; sorry, I don't know what gun barrel means.

At this stage I'm half thinking that with the price of gas going up and up, I might be better off to get a solid fuel stove upstairs that would run radiators, if this is possible without the stove being huge.

you need a open vented boiler then,

in my opinion trying to heat the house with a stove is wasteful, use the oil/gas to heat the water half hour or so. then use the stove to maintain the heat. much smaller fire then your not trying to have huge fires to heat the water.

and as for installing that depends on the house

Qualitymark · 20-11-2012 5:38pm

corkgsxr wrote: »

you need a open vented boiler then,

in my opinion trying to heat the house with a stove is wasteful, use the oil/gas to heat the water half hour or so. then use the stove to maintain the heat. much smaller fire then your not trying to have huge fires to heat the water.

and as for installing that depends on the house

What's an open vented boiler?

The last guy who was here quoting said the condensing boiler had to have some water piped off outside into the shore.

corkgsxr · 20-11-2012 5:41pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

What's an open vented boiler?

The last guy who was here quoting said the condensing boiler had to have some water piped off outside into the shore.

so boilers need to be pressureised some can be open vented with small tank in the attic.

id say get someone to look at putting in the stove and they could tell ya if you can or not

Proceedure for servicing a gas boiler

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