Proceedure for servicing a gas boiler

fatty pang

K.Flyer wrote: »

Lets just say, thats a work in progress ;-)

I wouldn't hold your breath. I reported somebody for unauthorised work and CER merely had their solicitor send him a letter telling him not to get caught do it again. Some years back I reported another installer for work that was non-compliant. BG acknowledged it in writing as being non-compliant...and that was as far as it went. Enforcement in this country is a joke.

Dardania

Something to ask the knowledgeable types here! : is there any point to ensure that the boiler etc. is not operated for a while before being serviced, so that an accurate reading of the expansion vessel pressure can be taken?

corkgsxr

dont think so myself. you wouldnt be working on a up to temp boiler anyway too hot to pull bits off.

but warm is fine

Robbie.G

Dardania wrote: »

Something to ask the knowledgeable types here! : is there any point to ensure that the boiler etc. is not operated for a while before being serviced, so that an accurate reading of the expansion vessel pressure can be taken?

Don't know about the knowledgeable bit but its preferred if the boiler is cool for servicing just for the fact of hot parts and hands.Re the expansion vessel the pressure should be measured with no water pressure so to get an accurate reading of vessels pressure the boiler is drained of water and then the pressure reading is done on the vessel

shane0007

Dardania wrote: »

Something to ask the knowledgeable types here! : is there any point to ensure that the boiler etc. is not operated for a while before being serviced, so that an accurate reading of the expansion vessel pressure can be taken?

The boiler should be cold before serviced. The boiler itself should be drained and only then can the expansion vessel pressure be checked & adjusted as required. The boiler should then be refilled and brought to temperature. This should be for a minimum of 15 minutes, depending on the boiler, as the jets need to be at operating temperature. They can expand and give a different Analyiser reading from when cold so gas valve adjustments should only be made at operating temperature.

Dardania

Robbie.G wrote: »

Don't know about the knowledgeable bit but its preferred if the boiler is cool for servicing just for the fact of hot parts and hands.Re the expansion vessel the pressure should be measured with no water pressure so to get an accurate reading of vessels pressure the boiler is drained of water and then the pressure reading is done on the vessel

shane0007 wrote: »

The boiler should be cold before serviced. The boiler itself should be drained and only then can the expansion vessel pressure be checked & adjusted as required. The boiler should then be refilled and brought to temperature. This should be for a minimum of 15 minutes, depending on the boiler, as the jets need to be at operating temperature. They can expand and give a different Analyiser reading from when cold so gas valve adjustments should only be made at operating temperature.

Hmmm. I do believe my airtricity guy this morning didn't drain the boiler so...

corkgsxr

Dardania wrote: »

Hmmm. I do believe my airtricity guy this morning didn't drain the boiler so...

very few airtricity/board gas check the pressure vessel. alot do feck all at all

shane0007

The problem with Utility Company servicing is that the works are sub-contracted to a smaller company. These sub-contractors are paid very small prices to carry out the works and are given high volume targets to complete daily. A 15 - 20 minute service is more the norm than the unusual so they can get through as many as they can per day to make it pay. A basic gas soundness test of the appliance and safe operation of the appliance is all that is required by law. This includes a visual check of the flue, ventilation and appliance location. All good RGI's will go much further and a full test of the complete gas system from the gas meter to every appliance. The also service the appliance as the manufacturer of the appliance intended.
Who suffers, the client does! They pay as much or in most cases more than they would with a good RGI for a much poorer and often abysmal service.

DGOBS

Well, in truth it is a debatable topic, as in reality the last thing you want to do is drain a boiler and introduce fresh water into the system.

If joe public would like that included in the service (as it should be), there would be also the cost of testing inhibitor levels of the system water, and topping up of the inhibitor if required (again a cost to both steps), and that testing would also in turn be dependant on knowing which brand inhibitor is in the system to allow correct testing kits to be used (or as Shane would have it, nails in 2 jars for a few weeks, the learned know what I mean by that)

Also, there lends another few issues here, some boilers are not provided with drain valves, the manufacturers instruction of using the safety valve for draining, so again, that in the majority of cases as we all know would require replacing after the event, leading to yet another service cost addition, or in the case of non-system boilers on sealed (and the dreaded semi-sealed) systems would require a partial drain down of the system for the same expansion vessel testing.

Another cost effective method, although not as good, old be a running test, ie. the water pressure on the cold system (so, now we see the reason for cold boiler and system coming into play) is checked and set accordingly (for sealed systems) and when the cleaning and checking of the boiler is complete, as the boiler is running and allowed to come to temperature (your diligent service tech may use this I've to check your external on trolls, rads, cylinder, gas pressures, flue gas, flue inspection, gas rating etc, etc) Then if the water pressure is checked for significant rising in pressure, is ok, and the safety valve outlet how's no signs of previous venting, you could say the vessel pressure has been indirectly check to be acceptable (albeit the service tech ensured all the rads were vented and full as not to falsify the results)

But once again, can you expect this or €39 or €55 euro?
Or in the case of some large company contractors, even less?

Should it be done, resoundingly YES
But it's like servicing your car, do you pay a premium by using the dealer or recognised service agent. Or do you search the yellow pages, group on, your local rag, or lyres for the cheapest deal.

One poor lady had a service company called out for a pressure vessel issue, she told them to boiler was reading high pressures in use, venting at safety valve, and needing regular water top ups.
The serviceman arrived, 'serviced the boiler' got his money,told her the service did not remedy the problem, it was a wet side job, and she would have to get out a plumber, but most likely she needed a new boiler!?!?!?
After a tearful phone conversation (hers not mine) I did a late call to her, and re-pressurised the expansion vessel to fix the problem.

JohnnieK

I think every boiler in balbriggan has never had it's expansion vessel checked. Any of the one's I've been to are at zero. I have a van full of safety valves:rolleyes:

If there is a regular boiler on the system and no means of isolating the expansion vessel or draining I dont normally check the vessel. The alternative is to drain/take the pressure off, and we all know the problems that can cause when filling back up again. Most of the time the gauge is a good indicator. If it is a system boiler then it's just lazy if it's not checked.

DGOBS

Checking it is always good practice, but as you know in Balbriggan, all the mynutes have no drain valves (instructions say use the safety valve) and as long as the customer accepts that this may mean changing it, fine. But again, unless you top up inhibitor etc aswell, adding fresh water is never a good thing (most I have dealt with there are also the dreaded semi-sealed ones!)

I would prefer the monitoring the pressure gauge approach, I cracked a fitting under the boiler a few years ago to drain the boiler to check the vessel(I don't use blow offs), when I went to remake the fitting to refill, the other end of the fitting which was buried in the plaster came away in my hands(bloody push fit cack) so I learned my lesson.

sullzz

DGOBS wrote: »

all the mynutes have no drain valves (instructions say use the safety valve) and as long as the customer accepts that this may mean changing it, fine.

And also replacing the crap isolation valves on the vokeras after touching them !!!

gdavis

my vote for worst isolation valve goes to gloworm flexicom,the brass literally disintegrates when it hears u approach the boiler!

DGOBS

Haha. Totally agree.....this valve will self district in 10 seconds

JohnnieK

DGOBS wrote: »

Checking it is always good practice, but as you know in Balbriggan, all the mynutes have no drain valves (instructions say use the safety valve) and as long as the customer accepts that this may mean changing it, fine. But again, unless you top up inhibitor etc aswell, adding fresh water is never a good thing (most I have dealt with there are also the dreaded semi-sealed ones!)

Inhibitor, ha. There's none in any of them.

Dardania

shane0007 wrote: »

The problem with Utility Company servicing is that the works are sub-contracted to a smaller company. These sub-contractors are paid very small prices to carry out the works and are given high volume targets to complete daily. A 15 - 20 minute service is more the norm than the unusual so they can get through as many as they can per day to make it pay. A basic gas soundness test of the appliance and safe operation of the appliance is all that is required by law. This includes a visual check of the flue, ventilation and appliance location. All good RGI's will go much further and a full test of the complete gas system from the gas meter to every appliance. The also service the appliance as the manufacturer of the appliance intended.
Who suffers, the client does! They pay as much or in most cases more than they would with a good RGI for a much poorer and often abysmal service.

Would you by any chance have a link to that regulation? Would be very curious to see it...

corkgsxr

gdavis wrote: »

my vote for worst isolation valve goes to gloworm flexicom,the brass literally disintegrates when it hears u approach the boiler!

Right size flat screwdriver and there grand. Wring size and they do tear easy

gdavis

cork if someone has been at it before u with wrong sized flat head then there is no right size for what u are left with!!

DGOBS

Or they do accept an Allen key.
Either way, the material is too soft IMHO

corkgsxr

gdavis wrote: »

cork if someone has been at it before u with wrong sized flat head then there is no right size for what u are left with!!

true ya.

DGOBS

Dardania, IS813 Annex C - Gas Appliance Servicing

www.standards.ie (but will cost you 50 bucks)

Extracted for the public comment review document IS813 -2012 (but practically unchanged for the old version)
comment on the document is now closed AFAIK

Annex C
(normative)
Servicing a domestic gas appliance
C.1 Appliance servicing requirements
C.1.1 Appliances shall be serviced by competent persons using appropriate test equipment.
C.1.2 Appliances should be serviced at intervals indicated in the manufacturer's instructions or at more
frequent intervals if dictated by the conditions of use and in general at minimum intervals of one year.
NOTE Some boiler manufacturers require the use of a calibrated flue gas analyser when servicing.
C.1.3 Appliances shall be serviced according to the manufacturer’s instructions.
C.1.4 In servicing the appliance(s), the competent person shall address the following safety indicators:
⎯ effectiveness of the flue;
⎯ safety devices on or controlling the appliance have not been rendered inoperable;
⎯ supply of combustion air (see E.5);
⎯ appliance burner pressure (where applicable);
⎯ appropriateness of the location of the appliance;
⎯ gas soundness of the appliance, see C.1.5.
C.1.5 The soundness of an appliance shall be verified by one of the following test methods:
a) gauge;
b) leak detection fluids, see 13.4; or
c) calibrated portable combustible gas detector, see 13.4.
C.1.6 The occupier or the person responsible for the premises in which the appliance is situated shall be
notified if any of the above are not satisfactory. Where considered necessary a Notification of Hazard (see the
example given in D.3) shall be issued.
C.1.7 The competent person may decide to affix a warning notice and/or isolate the gas supply to the
installation, or part thereof, or to an appliance if deemed appropriate. The isolation shall be such as to require
the use of tools to restore the supply.
C.1.8 The competent person shall issue a notice confirming the safety of the appliance, see the example
given in D.2.

Barnaboy

I presume this is the appropriate place for my query. Apologies if it has been dealt with before.

For the last couple of years I have done basic servicing of my oil fired burner. Primarily for cost but I also have a natural tendency to try and fix stuff myself when I can. Recently the performance of the burner is definitely declining. There is a constant high pitched whistle coming from the burner. The exact source of the noise is very hard to isolate. In addition there is a small amount of smoke coming out of the combustion chamber that is escaping at the front (above where the burner is mounted). This may very well be related to the second point below. I tried gently tapping with a hammer, the various parts of the burner and chamber to see if I could change or stop the whistle. Nothing obvious.

Q1: Any ideas what the 'whistle' might be and what can I do about it?

I also have a concern about the combustion chamber. Part of my regular service is to clean the metal plates above the chamber- I don't know what they are called but they are rectanglar metal plates with a boat shaped ring of metal on top. There are five or six of them and they sit on top of each other. I have taken them out so many times over the years that I am no longer sure if they are installed correctly.

Q2: Can someone tell me what these plates are, what they do and how to know if they are installed correctly?

Dtp79

Barnaboy wrote: »

I presume this is the appropriate place for my query. Apologies if it has been dealt with before.

For the last couple of years I have done basic servicing of my oil fired burner. Primarily for cost but I also have a natural tendency to try and fix stuff myself when I can. Recently the performance of the burner is definitely declining. There is a constant high pitched whistle coming from the burner. The exact source of the noise is very hard to isolate. In addition there is a small amount of smoke coming out of the combustion chamber that is escaping at the front (above where the burner is mounted). This may very well be related to the second point below. I tried gently tapping with a hammer, the various parts of the burner and chamber to see if I could change or stop the whistle. Nothing obvious.

Q1: Any ideas what the 'whistle' might be and what can I do about it?

I also have a concern about the combustion chamber. Part of my regular service is to clean the metal plates above the chamber- I don't know what they are called but they are rectanglar metal plates with a boat shaped ring of metal on top. There are five or six of them and they sit on top of each other. I have taken them out so many times over the years that I am no longer sure if they are installed correctly.

Q2: Can someone tell me what these plates are, what they do and how to know if they are installed correctly?

Well fair play to you for admitting on here that you used a hammer on your burner lol.
Those plates are called baffles. When you do your own service, do you check pump pressure, air settings, and replace old nozzle with an appropriate new one, and use a flue gas analyser ??

boiler break downs

Dtp79 wrote: »

Well fair play to you for admitting on here that you used a hammer on your burner lol.
Those plates are called baffles. When you do your own service, do you check pump pressure, air settings, and replace old nozzle with an appropriate new one, and use a flue gas analyser ??

The whistle is more than likely the bearings in th motor.there is a right and wrong way to put in baffels.the mounting flange gasket is in need of replacement. There is a need for someone qualified to look at it.or you could try a bigger hammer.what boiler and burner have you.Dont use it if it untill its put right

JohnnieK

In fairness this is a thread for gas boilers. You could have started a new thread in the forum. The whistling could be the bearings or it could be air being sucked in a seal is gone. You also shouldn't get smoke from it.

shane0007

+1 on should be in it's own thread as this is for gas.
The whistle sound is motor bearings. Smoke is related as motor is spinning with restriction so cannot generate enough pump pressure to atomise the fuel for complete combustion.
You will need to check the MI for that exact model to ensure the baffles are in their correct position.

Tonne honest you would need an OFTEC technician to do the repair competently. If the burner is over 10 years old, it maybe new burner time as it is a bench job to replace both bearings. Cheap part but you will spend it in labour only to find the pump could be also damage. Much more expensive part.

Barnaboy

Thanks guys for all the responses! And apologies for hi-jacking the wrong thread I''ll take your advice and get a professional in. Bloody typical timing though. No money and snow and really cold weather on the way:-(

shane0007

If money is very tight, the set of two bearings costs €10. Part number is 6202-27. They can be bought from a farm industrial suppliers. Ask the OFTEC person would they change them for you and set the pump pressure & analyise the boiler if you have everything cleaned out & ready for them.
Fan puller will be required to strip down the burner to get into the bearings. There is one at each side of the motor.
I usually bring a 2nd burner to get client by and take away the burner to replace them unless you have a work bench.

QBE

JohnnieK wrote: »

There is a lot of posts on Boards regarding boiler services over the last while. Between website deals and so on.
I have put this thread up to try and highlight to consumers what should be done when a boiler is serviced and hopefully know what to expect for your money.

A boiler service should take between an hour to an hour and a half (depends on the engineer) If its 15, 20 mins then it's not done right.

The servicing of gas appliances in Ireland is governed by Annex C of the is813 standard for domestic gas installations.

Annex C

1. Appliances shall be serviced by competent persons using appropriate test equipment

2. Appliances should be serviced at intervals indicated in the manufacturers instructions or at more frequent intervals if dictated by the conditions of use and in general at a minimum of 1 year.

3. Appliances shall be serviced according to manufacturers instruction

4. In servicing the appliance the competent person should address the following safety indicators.

• effectivness of the flue
• safety devices on or controlling the appliance have not been rendered inoprable
• supply of combustion air
• appliance burner pressure (where applicable)
• appropriatness of the location of the appliance
• gas soundness of the appliance.

5. The occupier or the person responsible for the premises in which the appliance is situated shall be notified if any of the above are not satisfactory. Where considered necessary a notification of hazard shall be issued.

6. The competent person may decide to affix a warning notice and/or isolate the gas supply to the installation or to an appliance if deemed appropriate.

7. The competent person shall, when appropriate and required, issue a notice confirming the safety of the appliance.

A service doesn't stop with Annex C. Go back to part 3 of the Annex, the manufacturers instructions.


Lets take a common boiler like a Vokera Mynute E. Along with annex C They should:

• Check the operation of the appliance and ensure it functions as described in the manual
• Compare the performance of the appliance with it's designed specs
• Thoroughly inspect the appliance for signs of deteriation especially the flue and electrical apparatus
• Check and adjust if necessary all burner settings
• Check and adjust if necessary the system designed pressure
• Ensure both flue venturi's are clean and free from debris
• Ensure the burner and heat exchanger are clean and free
• Inspect all joints for signs of leakage and repair if necessary
• Carry out an analysis of the flue gases and compare with design specs any deterioration should be identified and rectified

Every appliance has a manual and in that manual are the manufacturers routine maintenance procedures that must be followed along with Annex C.

Regarding the gas soundness test above a lot of engineers would soundness test from the meter as opposed from the appliance with the isolation valve closed. Testing from the meter is more thorough and you should insist on this.

It's going to be very hard for a consumer to know if it's been done right but hopefully this thread will be of some assistance to you before you part with your money.

Is a service report and cert not issued with each job? Or is it just a cert?
If it is. Then the service is been provided that is recommended by the relevant bodies. So the main concern of the client is will I get a service report and cert. If the answer is yes.

Then the client needs to ask.
I am been offered the service at 30e . you charge 130e. That's called competion. So what the customer should really ask is. I know a company/lad doing it for 30e. So outside the procedure recommended for servicing. What are you offering additional?

If your not offering any more than the service recommended. its competition. If their is additional work outside the recommended. The client can go back to the 30e service man and ask him to quote for the additional work.

Compare prices and make the decision.

If I installed a new heating system. I would provide the 1st service free. (cant beat that) but every year after I would most likely get the service again. However I wouldn't be charging 30e. So maybe theres a reason for offers. Competition and customer portfolio. So the 30e guy could be providing even more than the 130e. Got to look at both sides of the coin.