Knock Airport

Tenger · 07-09-2012 8:59am

irishbloke77 wrote: »

But an ATR and a dash 8 only replace about half the seats lost from the bmi Boeing 737 so a cut in seats by 50% on those routes but correct to say that the routes are not lost

Indeed, capacity has dropped....however these could actually allow these routes to operate in the further weakening of the economy.
No point flying a 50% full B737 when the ATR or Dash 8 can operate the same route at less cost and at 80+ load factor. I think more secure but less traffic is a better option than uncertain/less sustainable higher traffic levels.

irishbloke77 · 07-09-2012 11:57am

Tenger wrote: »

Indeed, capacity has dropped....however these could actually allow these routes to operate in the further weakening of the economy.
No point flying a 50% full B737 when the ATR or Dash 8 can operate the same route at less cost and at 80+ load factor. I think more secure but less traffic is a better option than uncertain/less sustainable higher traffic levels.

Would agree 100%. Whilst I have never flown out of here, it's great to see a regional airport not relying on a certain "ultra low fares" airline (as they now describe themselves) for all routes. Spreading the routes amongst reputable airlines pretty much guarantees good routes and reasonable prices and doesn't allow one airline to hold the airport over a barrel. As for the reduction in capacity, as you said, an 80% full ATR or Dash 8 is much better than a 40% 737.

This airport does seem to be the good news story of aviation in Ireland at the moment. Despite not have a city right beside like the other 3 bigger airports, it appears to be getting a large catchment area and the locals seem to be supporting.

JCX BXC · 02-07-2014 1:26am

Does Knock airport have any Aircraft based their? Ryanair doesn't, neither do Aer Lingus.

flazio · 02-07-2014 9:50am

Nothing commercial but there is a Connaught flying club

JCX BXC · 02-07-2014 11:48am

flazio wrote: »

Nothing commercial but there is a Connaught flying club

That must be very annoying for holiday makers.

Cookiemunster · 02-07-2014 12:16pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

That must be very annoying for holiday makers.

Why? What difference to holiday makers does it make if a plane is based in the airport? 99% of people don't care where the plane came from as long as it's there when they're due to board.

JCX BXC · 02-07-2014 12:35pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Why? What difference to holiday makers does it make if a plane is based in the airport? 99% of people don't care where the plane came from as long as it's there when they're due to board.

It is annoying because the flight times are not great.
Say if Im going to malaga,

I go on the flight over at 12:00pm and land at 2:00pm (Local time, presuming a simple 3 hour flights.) Coming home you might leave at 7:00am and land at 11:00am.

Although its only a small difference, If dublin has a flight with better flight times, even if it costs a little more I would book that flight.

It is not a MAJOR thing, its just a small set back.

Trust me, Shannon, Cork and Dublin each have the same problem.

L1011 · 02-07-2014 1:01pm

Knock flights do not yield enough to justify them having better times and the costs involved with based aircraft - pretty simple really. The craft can make more cash elsewhere at those times.

Cookiemunster · 02-07-2014 1:53pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It is annoying because the flight times are not great.
Say if Im going to malaga,

I go on the flight over at 12:00pm and land at 2:00pm (Local time, presuming a simple 3 hour flights.) Coming home you might leave at 7:00am and land at 11:00am.

Although its only a small difference, If dublin has a flight with better flight times, even if it costs a little more I would book that flight.

That may be your opinion, but most people I know would prefer not to have to be in the airport at 5am for a 7am flight and be at their destination 2hrs before they can check in. Especially those with kids. And the time travelling to Dublin from the West/South coast would make it even more unappealing.

Carnacalla wrote: »

It is not a MAJOR think, its just a small set back.

Trust me, Shannon, Cork and Dublin each have the same problem.

There are actually a lot of early morning flights from all these airports (especially Dublin), but they're mainly to European cities or the US rather than sun holiday destinations.

Tenger · 02-07-2014 3:03pm

I guess that this pic will go here:

Knock airport from the air by tearbringer, on Flickr

02-07-2014 6:20pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It is annoying because the flight times are not great.
Say if Im going to malaga,

I go on the flight over at 12:00pm and land at 2:00pm (Local time, presuming a simple 3 hour flights.) Coming home you might leave at 7:00am and land at 11:00am.

Although its only a small difference, If dublin has a flight with better flight times, even if it costs a little more I would book that flight.

It is not a MAJOR think, its just a small set back.

Trust me, Shannon, Cork and Dublin each have the same problem.

The Spanish/Portuguese/Lithuania Flights goes over mid-morning perfect for Holidaymakers. Arrive at Airport at 9 with Carry on luggage and board at 9:20, depart 9:40.

Children and parents get a full night sleep.

I've done the three hour drive to Dublin, followed by queues for everything for a six o'clock flight. You basically don't go to bed at all as you leave at 1am. Then you miss out on a full day when you arrive. Kids will not tolerate that.

The German, Dutch and Italian flights go around lunch time and could be a bit earlier but most users of the Airport are thankful to have a choice of destinations and would rather that over traveling long distances to busy airports. 99.9% of people wouldn't know or care if a plane was stationed at Knock or not, its no "set back" to them.

JCX BXC · 02-07-2014 8:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Spanish/Portuguese/Lithuania Flights goes over mid-morning perfect for Holidaymakers. Arrive at Airport at 9 with Carry on luggage and board at 9:20, depart 9:40.

Children and parents get a full night sleep.

I've done the three hour drive to Dublin, followed by queues for everything for a six o'clock flight. You basically don't go to bed at all as you leave at 1am. Then you miss out on a full day when you arrive. Kids will not tolerate that.

The German, Dutch and Italian flights go around lunch time and could be a bit earlier but most users of the Airport are thankful to have a choice of destinations and would rather that over traveling long distances to busy airports. 99.9% of people wouldn't know or care if a plane was stationed at Knock or not, its no "set back" to them.

Im not up for an argument and frankly I couldn't care less about the times of knocks flights.

Several of the people I know would rather leave their local airport at 6am rather than leaving the airport that is in the holiday destination at 6am.

Fair enough, it may not be worth the extra airport charges and its fine the way it is, its just a Minor set-back. It won't effect me and I'm sorry I pointed it out.
Its not the journey out from knock that has a bad time, its the journey home.

02-07-2014 8:50pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It is annoying because the flight times are not great.
If dublin has a flight with better flight times, even if it costs a little more I would book that flight.

Carnacalla wrote: »

Frankly I couldn't care less about the times of knocks flights.

Carnacalla, it fairly transparent to anybody that's been on Boards for a while exactly what you have been trying to do. There is very few of your posts that are not negative towards Knock, why i don't know. If you don't care about flight times in Knock why come onto the Knock Thread and complain about planes not been based there and their flight times.

But to come on and then completely contradict yourself within a few posts is just foolish. If you want to pluck holes in Knock's operations at least try something better than flight times because they are very suitable for Knocks clientele even if they do not suit the several people you know that want to leave in the middle of the night :rolleyes:

irishbloke77 · 02-07-2014 9:22pm

Must admit, I have been put off flying to/from certain airports, not just knock, most of the oths aswell, by a very early flit on the way home. A 6am flight back to anywhere in Ireland is a very early start, often even worse if being picked up by a tour company shuttle bus. Usually means almost losing the previous nights holidays, as with 3 small kids its hard enough, without a 3am rise.

Oddly enough, doesnt bother me as much from this end. Its almost like losing the previous night here is ok, but losing it on holidays is a lot worse. Maybe it is!!!!

Anyhow, my point is, 6am return flight from hols is a no-no for us, back to any Irish airport

JCX BXC · 03-07-2014 12:53am

irishbloke77 wrote: »

Must admit, I have been put off flying to/from certain airports, not just knock, most of the oths aswell, by a very early flit on the way home. A 6am flight back to anywhere in Ireland is a very early start, often even worse if being picked up by a tour company shuttle bus. Usually means almost losing the previous nights holidays, as with 3 small kids its hard enough, without a 3am rise.

Oddly enough, doesnt bother me as much from this end. Its almost like losing the previous night here is ok, but losing it on holidays is a lot worse. Maybe it is!!!!

Anyhow, my point is, 6am return flight from hols is a no-no for us, back to any Irish airport

Thank you. Thats a problem assosiated with Aircraft not being located in Knock.

irishbloke77 · 03-07-2014 8:34am

Carnacalla wrote: »

Thank you. Thats a problem assosiated with Aircraft not being located in Knock.

Not just knock though. I know from recently looking at a canaries flight from Shannon that the return left at 6am approx and we decided not to do that route because of the return time. I suppose the problem in knock may be worse, because they don't overnight any planes there, meaning every departure must have an earlier return flight departure. Obviously, Dublin with the biggest amount of flights wouldn't suffer as much.

Personally, I would travel the 2/3 hours to get to dublin to avoid the early return flight, if I had to. But like others said, if the opportunity presented itself, local flights are best.

Locker10a · 03-07-2014 4:43pm

irishbloke77 wrote: »

Personally, I would travel the 2/3 hours to get to dublin to avoid the early return flight, if I had to. But like others said, if the opportunity presented itself, local flights are best.

I feel 100% the same way as do many others, no one wants to return from their holiday at 6am ! They want to go on their holiday at 6am and have the whole day there! My mother cant stand not travelling in the morning, be it a train or plane she is getting, when she is going away it has to be in the morning! And I totally understand why! Its difficult to please everyone though!

Neworder79 · 03-07-2014 9:35pm

Some great images from this Cologne route passenger.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=70654106@N00&q=EIKN

JCX BXC · 03-07-2014 9:38pm

Back to my original point. The fact that ryanair don't base planes at Knock must be annoying for holiday makers. The reason being is no one likes leaving their holiday at 7am in the morning.

Tenger · 03-07-2014 10:01pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

Back to my original point. The fact that ryanair don't base planes at Knock must be annoying for holiday makers. The reason being is no one likes leaving their holiday at 7am in the morning.

I doubt that any airline factor in "annoying pax" to their financial assessment of aircraft basing.

The fact is that Knock does not merit the logistical investment to base aircraft. Airlines are managing to operate flights with aircraft from elsewhere. This will continue until the market increases enough to merit the investment in basing an aircraft there.

JCX BXC · 20-09-2014 12:24pm

It seems that the 3 routes Ryanair added this year are being cancelled again.

Glasgow-Prestwick seems to end on the 28th of September

Kaunas seems to end on the 23rd of October, (Possibly due to the summer season ending)

Eindhoven seems to end on the 25th of October (Possibly due to the summer season ending.)

I got this information from The Knock airport wikipedia page.

Aer Lingus' London-Gatwick flight seems to end on the 28th of March also.

Locker10a · 20-09-2014 1:55pm

I certainly hope the LGW route is not going anywhere

cgill · 21-09-2014 1:49pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It seems that the 3 routes Ryanair added this year are being cancelled again.

Glasgow-Prestwick seems to end on the 28th of September

Kaunas seems to end on the 23rd of October, (Possibly due to the summer season ending)

Eindhoven seems to end on the 25th of October (Possibly due to the summer season ending.)

I got this information from The Knock airport wikipedia page.

Aer Lingus' London-Gatwick flight seems to end on the 28th of March also.

The Glasgow route has been confirmed as ending next week, Kaunas will probably move to Shannon. With EI closing their Gatwick base it doesnt look good for the Knock route, especially since the DUB and BHD routes are already bookable from LGW. Aer Lingus recently said that their summer schedule had not been fully loaded yet. Hopefully LGW wont end...

highlydebased · 21-09-2014 3:00pm

Knock-Kaunas was a bit of a curveball though in fairness!

JCX BXC · 21-09-2014 3:05pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Knock-Kaunas was a bit of a curveball though in fairness!

Even shannon-kaunas is a curve ball.

cgill · 21-09-2014 3:06pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Knock-Kaunas was a bit of a curveball though in fairness!

It had good passenger numbers though. People were saying that petitions had been sent to airlines to get an eastern european route from Knock which influenced Ryanair in starting the Kaunas one - I dont know if theres any truth to it.

highlydebased · 21-09-2014 3:40pm

842 carried in April, 1221 in May and 1153 in June. There's 1512 seats a month on the route so an average lf of around 75% which is not the worst.

Perhaps they should try something like Warsaw

christy c · 21-09-2014 4:20pm

highlydebased wrote: »

842 carried in April, 1221 in May and 1153 in June. There's 1512 seats a month on the route so an average lf of around 75% which is not the worst.

Perhaps they should try something like Warsaw

Are these figures available to the public?

cgill · 21-09-2014 4:23pm

christy c wrote: »

Are these figures available to the public?

Yes, theyre on cso.ie under the tourism and travel section under airport pairings. They generally take 3 months to be published but UK and Spanish figures are available within 2 weeks on the CAA and AENA websites.

vkid · 21-09-2014 4:41pm

Depends on the yield as much as seats sold though.. Possibly more so. You can sell loads of seats and still have a loss making route

JCX BXC · 21-09-2014 4:43pm

cgill wrote: »

They generally take 3 months to be published but UK and Spanish figures are available within 2 weeks on the CAA and AENA websites.

Tells you a lot about Ireland doesn't it?

highlydebased · 21-09-2014 4:49pm

Here's the link. http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=ctm01

Never knew AENA published too- thanks for the heads up

21-09-2014 8:32pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Knock-Kaunas was a bit of a curveball though in fairness!

Especially when the vast majority of eastern Europeans in this region are from Poland. 700 in Castlebar town alone in 2011 and closer to 2K during the boom.

More than a route to Poland Knock need the same sweetheart/bailout deal that Shannon got. They are spending too much servicing there debt. This should be changing with the upcoming budget as the airport contributes 100 million plus to the economy every single year.

It was making front page news on the leading paper in the region last week so there is some momentum behind it..

21-09-2014 8:35pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

It seems that the 3 routes Ryanair added this year are being cancelled again.

Glasgow-Prestwick seems to end on the 28th of September

Kaunas seems to end on the 23rd of October, (Possibly due to the summer season ending)

Eindhoven seems to end on the 25th of October (Possibly due to the summer season ending.)

I got this information from The Knock airport wikipedia page.

Aer Lingus' London-Gatwick flight seems to end on the 28th of March also.

Very kind of you to point this out, Now Carn would you mind point out all the routes that are finishing at Shannon this winter ?? I know its a lot bigger list that you have just printed. You would think with the amount of money the taxpayers gave Shannon they could nearly pay people to fly from there:D

<SNIP>

21-09-2014 8:39pm

Knock just had its biggest amount of passengers last month for over 30 years. The airport expands every single year and is essential to keep the whole region alive.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=363

cgill · 21-09-2014 8:39pm

[quote="[Deleted User];92297087"
More than a route to Poland Knock need the same sweetheart/bailout deal that Shannon got. They are spending too much servicing there debt. This should be changing with the upcoming budget.

It was making front page news on the leading paper in the region last week so there is some momentum behind it..[/quote]

Completely agree about the bailout deal and that Knock needs more support from the government. Very interesting articles in those papers last week about Enda's promises before he became Taoiseach. All in all though, new routes to the right destinations could have a hugely positive impact on the airport.

JCX BXC · 21-09-2014 8:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very kind of you to point this out, Now Carn would you mind point out all the routes that are finishing at Shannon this winter ?? I know its a lot bigger list that you have just printed.

You would think with the amount of money the taxpayers gave Shannon they could nearly pay people to fly from there:D

Now wait a second, what's with the attitude?

The only route I know of cancelled from Shannon is the Aer Lingus to Manchester, which will probably have a bigger impact than the few knock routes being cancelled.

This is a forum about knock airport, not Shannon. I understand a few of my previous comments had a high level of bias in them, but I hope that I am not continuing that trend now.

21-09-2014 8:45pm

cgill wrote: »

Completely agree about the bailout deal and that Knock needs more support from the government. Very interesting articles in those papers last week about Enda's promises before he became Taoiseach. All in all though, new routes to the right destinations could have a hugely positive impact on the airport.

They will go from 4 FG TD's in Mayo to zero if they do not apply the same rules as was applied to other airports. Without state aid Shannon would be closed by now.

They cannot put that genie back in the bottle especially for an airport that is pumping so much badly needed money into the local economy like Knock. An airport in this region is much more than just an airport.

highlydebased · 21-09-2014 9:21pm

Bucket and spade routes end at SNN for winter as they do in Knock. Memmingen breaking also. The length of the lists are probably equal! :-P

JCX BXC · 21-09-2014 9:23pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Bucket and spade routes end at SNN for winter as they do in Knock. Memmingen breaking also. The length of the lists are probably equal! :-P

I was referring to the routes that seem to be ending completely and not just for the winter.

lord lucan · 21-09-2014 9:40pm

A friendly reminder to keep on topic and no Knock v Shannon sniping.

cgill · 22-09-2014 8:07am

Germanwings have no flights bookable so looks like they won't be returning in 2015. With SNN-KUN going twice weekly in 2015 it's almost confirmation that NOC-KUN is gone.

man98 · 22-09-2014 8:27am

cgill wrote: »

Germanwings have no flights bookable so looks like they won't be returning in 2015. With SNN-KUN going twice weekly in 2015 it's almost confirmation that NOC-KUN is gone.

Not necessarily. Not all airlines have updated their 2015 schedule. Flybe last time I checked can't be booked past December yet.

cgill · 22-09-2014 8:30am

man98 wrote: »

Not all airlines have updated their 2015 schedule

From what I saw on pprune, they said that Germanwings have their summer schedule finished already.

Tenger · 22-09-2014 8:49am

mayomafia,

no need for such a response. This is the Knock thread and the poster was mentioning Knock routes. The conversation followed on nicely from their post. Suddenly you jump in with an attack on their motives.
Maybe that poster has shown a SNN bias in the past, would you then attack them for posting SNN updates here?
Less of the aggressive, respond with logic and debate rather than character attacks.

imurdaddy · 22-09-2014 10:30pm

The attempting to class Shannon & Knock as like for like is laughable! SNN has many other irons in the fire besides pax numbers which are key but not its only revenue stream.

SNN has maintenance and overhaul facilities, logistics and aircrew training, aircraft leasing companies based in SNN, parking and services to private aircraft including us pre clearances, coast gaurd station and ATC control center. Pax numbers are rising and looking healthy but at the same time there is a whole lot more movement's for various reasons, us military flights maintenance etc alot more than just pax, air contractors are basing there C130 Aircraft there to add to a737 cargo and ATR fed ex.

The management have stated they wish to develop the services side of SNN much more, time will tell. But so far companies and airlines are been attracted pax numbers are climbing nicely.

knock is not on the same level regarding services facilities routes etc, SNN has near twice numbers of pax than Knock.

Knock is a great service and facilitie for where it is and great employment boost to the areas, but you can not compare it with Dublin or Shannon, knock is a regional and nothing wrong with it, some people on here seem to think its equal to DUB or SNN

JCX BXC · 22-09-2014 10:31pm

imurdaddy wrote: »

The attempting to class Shannon & Knock as like for like is laughable! SNN has many other irons in the fire besides pax numbers which are key but not its only revenue stream.

SNN has maintenance and overhaul facilities, logistics and aircrew training, aircraft leasing companies based in SNN, parking and services to private aircraft including us pre clearances, coast gaurd station and ATC control center. Pax numbers are rising and looking healthy but at the same time there is a whole lot more movement's for various reasons, us military flights maintenance etc alot more than just pax, air contractors are basing there C130 Aircraft there to add to a737 cargo and ATR fed ex.

The management have stated they wish to develop the services side of SNN much more, time will tell. But so far companies and airlines are been attracted pax numbers are climbing nicely.

knock is not on the same level regarding services facilities routes etc, SNN has near twice numbers of pax than Knock.

Knock is a great service and facilitie for where it is and great employment boost to the areas, but you can not compare it with Dublin or Shannon, knock is a regional and nothing wrong with it, some people on here seem to think its equal to DUB or SNN

As much as I agree with you, I doubt this will be taken well in the topic, and you can't mention Shannon vs knock so. I'd stick on topic if I were you.

imurdaddy · 22-09-2014 10:54pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

As much as I agree with you, I doubt this will be taken well in the topic, and you can't mention Shannon vs knock so. I'd stick on topic if I were you.

Just pointing out that its ridiculous for every post to end up in shannon v knock, they are not like for like.

JCX BXC · 22-09-2014 10:56pm

imurdaddy wrote: »

Just pointing out that its ridiculous for every post to end up in shannon v knock, they are not like for like.

So let's try and avoid that subject?

imurdaddy · 22-09-2014 11:03pm

Carnacalla wrote: »

So let's try and avoid that subject?

ya suits me! I just felt compelled to clarify that point.

so any more knock news??

Knock Airport

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