Knock Airport

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

That airport was paid for by the taxpayer and then handed over debt-free to the airport company so please spare us the 'standing on their own two feet' stuff. It was approved by a corrupt politician (Haughey) to curry favour and buy votes in the west thanks to the campaign by a megalomaniac priest (Mons. Horan).

The only positive thing you can say about it's genesis is that at least they didn't bother throwing money at consultants for anything as silly as a cost-benefit analysis, they just decided to build it and hang the cost.

I don't begrudge the people of Connaught (of which I am a native) an airport but I wouldn't say the employees of Galway airport feel that they were playing on a level playing field when competing against Knock for traffic.

I know Galway was effectively subsidised by the PSO flights over the years but nobody gave them a modern airport for free.

You are full of nonsense, i lived close to the airport and know how it was built. Land donated, collections(£4 Million+) and donations built that airport with the Government only making up the shortfall long after it started only because they had to fulfill their contracted obligations even though they tried not to. Horan would of ensured that airport was built even without any government funding. Everybody poor or not contributed to that airport, with a lots of the work done voluntarily and with all contractors taking maximum cuts. Lots of money was also donated from the mayo associations worldwide http://www.mayoassociation.com/ and religious groupings. Its a people's airport, Since 1991 Ireland West Airport Knock has been owned and overseen by a voluntary trust. Unlike many other major airports, it has no private investors, is not a PLC, and all profits are re-invested into the company for the benefit of the region.

But don't let your begrudging get in the way of that. It would be interesting to see how much your community contributes to the infrastructure they use or is it as you say "paid for by the taxpayer and then handed over debt-free".

Maybe Galway actually closed because begrudgers like you had no interest in supporting it when it was needed or maybe it was just too close to Shannon. Some that have always had good infrastructure expect it as a god given right, others appreciate when they have it.

It is also unique as it is not a free airport, the passengers using that airport continue to support it by paying a 10 euro development fee on each flight and is yet successful, i suppose you would prefer the taxpayer paid that like in shannon?. I find it interesting that after shannon getting a 100 million bailout you didn't even mention it but mention a few million that Knock got in the eighties.

How much money do you think 700 thousand passengers yearly has generated in the western region for the government via taxes on tourists. The governments meagre investment has turned out to be one of there best.

You have also just proved what the poster meant by the begrudgers against Knock Airport, :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

You are full of nonsense, i lived close to the airport and know how it was built. Land donated collections and donations built that airport with the Government only making up the shortfall long after it started.

Long after it started? That's funny because the chronology of the scheme according to the official history is as follows..

1980 Committee’s proposed new airport at Knock gets Government backing
1981 First Sod cut

Get your story right.... http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/history.aspx

Deleted User wrote: »

It is also unique as it is not a free airport, the passengers using that airport continue to support it by paying a 10 euro development fee on each flight and is yet successful

They 'continue to support' the airport by being ambushed by a €10 'development' fee when departing, good for you. Bet that does a heap for tourism. That tax is only mentioned on the airport website, if you book a flight out of Knock via Ryanair there is no mention of the €10 departure tax (that is effectively what it is) on their website.

Deleted User wrote: »

How much money do you think 700 thousand passengers yearly has generated in the western region for the government via taxes on tourists.

Exactly the same amount as if they had flown into Galway, Sligo or Shannon.

Deleted User wrote: »

You have also just proved what the poster meant by the begrudgers against Knock Airport, :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

I don't begrudge the west of Ireland a proper infrastructure. Sligo and Donegal airport could never aspire to being anything other than local airports because of physical limitations on expansion capabilities but instead of developing an airport at Charlestown (let's stop pretending it's beside Knock) close to no significant centre of population, they should have upgraded the N17 and Galway should have been expanded to serve North Connaught.

Roscommon town or Tullamore would have had a far better case for an airport than Charlestown.

Neworder79

Coylemj, if this, if that. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Trying to re-write history to justify your own argument is of no benefit or consequence to the present day. What should, could or did happen can't now be easily or cheaply changed.

The reality is at a time of economic collapse, and huge pressure on the aviation industry, we thankfully still have any airport serving the West/NorthWest. It's location may not be ideal but it is on the axis of the 2 main N roads through the region and within an hour of all the main urban centres. That it is growing and trying to stand on it's own feet is something only someone with a grudge would bemoan.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

1980 Committee’s proposed new airport at Knock gets Government backing

Yeah it got backing but no money, that came when most of the airport has already been constructed with local funding even with Opposition from the then current Fine Gael Government. The Metro has got backing from the government but no money. Now if you want to start collecting and fundraising im sure it would be welcomed by all us taxpayers, Understand !!!

coylemj wrote: »

They 'continue to support' the airport by being ambushed by a €10 'development' fee when departing, good for you. Bet that does a heap for tourism. That tax is only mentioned on the airport website, if you book a flight out of Knock via Ryanair there is no mention of the €10 departure tax (that is effectively what it is) on their website.

Thats odd most of there business is repeat custom, they must keep forgetting each time they use the airport as its been in place a number of years:eek::eek: Its also what keeps the airport off the taxpayers backs.

coylemj wrote: »

I don't begrudge the west of Ireland a proper infrastructure.

Sounds very much like you do. A recent independent study by Ernst & Young Economic Consultants states the airport supports a total of 984 jobs in the region with an overall economic contribution of €128 million annually even before the recent increases in passengers. But keep crticising it anyway

coylemj wrote: »

Galway should have been expanded to serve North Connaught.

Then why didn't Galway people get off there ass instead of complaining about it for the past 40 years. Or is it just the fact that there is a successful airport in Mayo that annoys you ? You do realise Knock Airport is only about 5 miles from both Sligo and Roscommon i.e. North Connacht. so its not in that bad of a position. Mullingar is even closer to Knock airport that some of the western parts of Mayo.

Knock CEO “We have a realistic population catchment area of around 900,000 within a 90-minute drive of the airport. This represents around 21 per cent of Ireland’s population, 70 per cent of whom choose Ireland West Airport Knock as their preferred airport.

Cosmo Kramer

Coylemj - you are exactly the kind of begrudger that makes me so pleased that Knock has been the success it has become. Building costs funded by the taxpayer as if it is the only Irish airport built that way - ridiculous argument.

Galway airport was run into the ground by Galway people to support a sub-standard Galway airline who persisted in operating flights that there was no market for. The Galway airline with their Galway CEO then turned around and shafted the airport when they went into administration while Galway airport shafted any GA enthusiasts who were crazy enough to want to land a plane at the airport. Airline is now a regional franchise operator for Aer Lingus based in Dublin, airport is finished in terms of scheduled passenger services. Ex-airline CEO no longer calling the shots, airport chief has vanished to Australia, leaving others to sort out the mess he made. Between them they did it all to themselves. But you thought they should have been given even more Government money to piss away with no return for the taxpayer? Mad stuff.

Interestingly, the now rebranded airline are returning to the province next month. At Knock.

yew_tree

Knock airport is booming considering the awful state the country is in. The management team including Liam Scanlon are very astute men.

The begrudgers in my experience dont even use the airport and it never fails to amaze me why they dont pick another airport to have a pop at such at the totally mismanaged DAA and T2.

No matter where an airport is located in connacht (or anywhere outside dublin and maybe cork) can be considered lacking in population. Galway and Limerick are only "towns" in world standards.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise Knock Airport is about 5 miles
from both Sligo and Roscommon i.e. North Connacht.

Monsignor Horan probably used similar 'facts' to sell the airport to CJH. What you're referring to is the distance to those counties rather than the towns. In other words, for your own propaganda you're choosing to quote the distance from Knock airport to rural parts of counties Sligo and Roscommon, more massaging of reality.

It's 33 miles from Knock airport to Sligo town and 38 miles to Roscommon town. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Tenger

coylemj wrote: »

.........It's 33 miles from Knock airport to Sligo town and 38 miles to Roscommon town. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Its not as if less than 40 miles is a trek to get to an airport.

Neworder79

coylemj wrote: »

....But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

You've had many facts pointed out which you ignore, only one poster massaging here. Anyway seems a waste of time reasoning with you whatever your agenda.

bandit197

coylemj wrote: »

It's 33 miles from Knock airport to Sligo town and 38 miles to Roscommon town. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Its also 37 miles to Westport and 34 miles to Tuam. Its a central location in the northwest region.

instead of developing an airport at Charlestown (let's stop pretending it's beside Knock)

Who is pretending it is beside Knock. It is associated with Knock because it is an internationally recognised place of pilgrimage. Its 12 miles from Knock for the record.

Knock Airport is booming at the moment, long may it continue.

finchkerry

coylemj wrote: »

They 'continue to support' the airport by being ambushed by a €10 'development' fee when departing, good for you. Bet that does a heap for tourism. That tax is only mentioned on the airport website.

To be fair comparing the two airport taxes (Dublin & Knock) - Knocks works out at €24.99 plus the €10 development fee making it €34.99 in total. While Dublin's taxes in full is €36. So its a euro cheaper to fly from Knock. Both these flights were based on going to London stansted via Ryanair. I suppose to people in Dublin this has little bearing but imagine coming from Westport, Carrick on Shannon and places, even from west Cavan, ok not densely populated but the airport provides a service to those people too.

It would appear management are in Estonia trying to drum more flights according to their twitter page https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/irelandwest

Hopefully could get a few more good route, anyone got any ideas which ones?

eyeinthesky

Hi all, coylemj is the typical bergrudger of anything positive for the West. His nit picking is laughable, and his comments are not worhty of reply. Our airport is succeding because of hard work, good business expertise and a will of people to pull together. His opposition under the guise of supporting Galway Airport does not work because really it is obvious he supports Shannon and Knock is the thorn even with big handouts.

highlydebased

I wonder what is the max operating capacity of the airport as it currently is- terminal, ramp etc. Bearing in mind it's operating hours I can't imagine it physically able to handle many more flights than it currently does

Neworder79

I wonder what is the max operating capacity of the airport as it currently is- terminal, ramp etc. Bearing in mind it's operating hours I can't imagine it physically able to handle many more flights than it currently does.

I think I read that the departues extension was designed to allow for over 800,000 pa. However the arrivals and baggage area is small, and the apron is very constrained with just 3 aircraft stands.

highlydebased

highlydebased wrote: »

I wonder what is the max operating capacity of the airport as it currently is- terminal, ramp etc. Bearing in mind it's operating hours I can't imagine it physically able to handle many more flights than it currently does

I believe the Apron is currently been expanded(slowly), but they could probably do with expanding the departure lounge a little bit further . But one thing there not short of is room to expand, just the money.
They do have a second Hanger and Apron but i've only ever seen it used for private jets, business etc..

lotusm

some info on the link below might be useful

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Planning/DevelopmentPlansLocalAreaPlansandStrategies/LocalAreaPlans/IrelandWestAirportKnock/Document1,18166,en.pdf

finchkerry

I see Ryanair have added another Bristol flight to their August schedule, should help increase passenger numbers for that month. I think it's another monday flight.

Information taken from their twitter page.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/irelandwest

munchkin_utd

finchkerry wrote: »

I see Ryanair have added another Bristol flight to their August schedule, should help increase passenger numbers for that month. I think it's another monday flight.

Information taken from their twitter page.

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/irelandwest

heres a working link for those who dont have a login for twitter nor have any wish to.
http://twitter.com/#!/Irelandwest

Looks like the SNN bailout has opened a can of worms for the government...Now lets see if they treat the west and North west region as good as they have treated the mid west and South via SNN.

http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/mayo-politics/item/4813-mulherin-to-seek-govt-support-for-major-development-work-at-knock-airport.html

finchkerry

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like the SNN bailout has opened a can of worms for the government...Now lets see if they treat the west and North west region as good as they have treated the mid west and South via SNN.

http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/mayo-politics/item/4813-mulherin-to-seek-govt-support-for-major-development-work-at-knock-airport.html

Will be difficult for the government to back out of this under Enda's watch. Besides another 3 other FG TD's in Mayo. With FG in power can only be a good thing for Knock, granted cutbacks will occur in every walk in life due to the downturn.

byebye

finchkerry wrote: »

Will be difficult for the government to back out of this under Enda's watch. Besides another 3 other FG TD's in Mayo. With FG in power can only be a good thing for Knock, granted cutbacks will occur in every walk in life due to the downturn.

well bring out our boy enda nd pals to get funding for a privately owned "foggy boggy hill" surely his intrests should be in the county as one and not boosting lotto grants and such? not to mention poor o'l knocks standing on their own too feet!...lol tax payers money all the way $27m plus $4.5m a year development grant? plus $10 charge for same thing?? even if knock covers 99.9% of westren europe:D

Well lads fair play to ye :rolleyes: ye have mysupprt

Knock is cosey with ryanair and hopful all stays well but if and whe time coms for FR to want more for less knock will fail.
I wish the best for all irish airports and up turn in pax but a small country with two major airports and less peopel flying, but who knows.

byebye

byebye wrote: »

well bring out our boy enda nd pals to get funding for a privately owned "foggy boggy hill" surely his intrests should be in the county as one and not boosting lottot grants and such? not to mention poor o'l knocks standing on their own too feet!...lol tax payers money all the way $27m plus $4.5m a year development grant? plus $10 charge for same thing?? even if knock covers 99.9% of westren europe:D as was posted here 50,000 polish people living in knock?

Well lads fair play to ye :rolleyes: ye have mysupprt

i'm sorry if im wrong but post links and i'l eat my hat!

Neworder79

i'm sorry if im wrong but post links and i'l eat my hat!

Why not inform us with some research rather your own inaccurate prejudiced take? Your operating figures are way off. Only the smallest airports had multi million annual subvention as they couldn't possibly cover running costs from such a low commercial base.

Knock received no operating subvention (OPEX) from 2006 - 2009 as it turned a profit and did not qualify for the subvention only given to cover losses. The average for other years where it did receive the top up was about €450,000 pa.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-12-16.1274.0&s=knock+airport+opex#g1276.0.r

Of the €27 million announced by Finna Fail for capital (CAPEX) development, about €15 million was drawn down for the ILS, runway and terminal extension. The airport also invested over €14 million from it's own resources over the last decade.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/dempseys-public-service-obligation-pso-route-decision-march-2011.html

bandit197

byebye wrote: »

"foggy boggy hill"

You lost all credibility by using a statement like that.

Su Campu

byebye wrote: »

well bring out our boy enda nd pals to get funding for a privately owned "foggy boggy hill" surely his intrests should be in the county as one and not boosting lotto grants and such? not to mention poor o'l knocks standing on their own too feet!...lol tax payers money all the way $27m plus $4.5m a year development grant? plus $10 charge for same thing?? even if knock covers 99.9% of westren europe:D

Well lads fair play to ye :rolleyes: ye have mysupprt

Knock is cosey with ryanair and hopful all stays well but if and whe time coms for FR to want more for less knock will fail.
I wish the best for all irish airports and up turn in pax but a small country with two major airports and less peopel flying, but who knows.

We've now adopted the dollar? I missed that memo! :pac:

byebye

Born and bread in the west dosen't mean squat about how to run a airport? unless you have personal career in avation operations i'd bit my lip not to be nasty!

Neworder79 wrote: »

Why not inform us with some research rather your own inaccurate prejudiced take? Your operating figures are way off. Only the smallest airports had multi million annual subvention as they couldn't possibly cover running costs from such a low commercial base.

Right so Daa Take over knock in the morning what would be the result? you are going to in direct compition with no call over business decisions would it still be rosey in the west?

iI have no problem with the west! but i see certin posters here allways and for ever praying for shanon to fail. What is their problem? and lets not forget shannon is west also. its parish pump politics. " oh if we can close shannnon the aul yanks with fat wallets will be ours.....bad news passenger numbers are flat if not falling so every airports on this isle is in the much.

I may live in the midwest but get your facts straigt i'm born and raised a little west of mayo:rolleyes: so keep your slly remarks to yourself[/B]

Knock received no operating subvention (OPEX) from 2006 - 2009 as it turned a profit and did not qualify for the subvention only given to cover losses. The average for other years where it did receive the top up was about €450,000 pa.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-12-16.1274.0&s=knock+airport+opex#g1276.0.r

Of the €27 million announced by Finna Fail for capital (CAPEX) development, about €15 million was drawn down for the ILS, runway and terminal extension. The airport also invested over €14 million from it's own resources over the last decade.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/dempseys-public-service-obligation-pso-route-decision-march-2011.html

i very recently had to listen to a member of the mayo "mafia" say god oul knock never recived a single penny state funds......now all well and good i provided links but was then called a lair and in his words "tight" i have no prob with knoch getting a few bob but do with personal insults and trying to get trough to a brick wall. in certin parts it seems a very few people want shannon closed which would be of no good to any part of the west coast. now this very same man called me a fool and goombeen and that knock a never got so much a red penny from public coffers. i will been the nice guy i am take a full written appoligey. or god bless maybe highstool talk got take up wrong

http://mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/mayo-politics/item/4033-mulherin-confirms-%E2%82%AC400000-funding-for-knock-airport.html tax payers money?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1224/1224309469108.html Tax payers money

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/cwsnidsnsnsn/ Tax payers money?

No dont get me wrong its not knock i have beef with but the way some people post against shannon,cork,waterford. there are 2 internaionl airports in ireland Dub been the main and Shannon 2nd in line the rest are regional at best

Not once have i heard so much bitterness towards shannon and lets not forget without shannon avation would be allmost unknown on the west coast, not to mention the 10,000 jobs which were even open to mayo people.

but shannon is a state owned airport knock is private for better or worse thats why snn is getting help as its vital to industrial and business of the shannon region.

as for ryanair building routs and been knocks saviour? you dont have to look far to see what happens when the toys leave the pram?

thanks for the regional "pre historic links"

byebye

bandit197 wrote: »

You lost all credibility by using a statement like that.

For a mayo "fan boy" your not well up on your history!

a quick google will see you right!

byebye

Su Campu wrote: »

We've now adopted the dollar? I missed that memo! :pac:

OH my good su camp

please forgive me for a lack of sleep! will Thai bath be ofk next time?

byebye

Looks like knock got plenty in the five period, but sure fair pay for not hitting the tax payer! of which shannon is guilty but no keyboard heros saying how we never got a pennny!

reland West Airport Knock has been a major beneficiary under the CAPEX Scheme and has already received almost €11m in grant aid in the period 2006 to 2011 which is considerably more than any other airport has received. This included over €4m for the terminal extension and I am pleased to see that passenger numbers using this facility have increased at the airport. However, given the current financial Exchequer constraints, no funding is being provided under the Scheme for development purposes at these airports. It is a matter for the individual airports to pursue any such proposals with their own funding.

Su Campu

byebye wrote: »

Looks like knock got plenty in the five period, but sure fair pay for not hitting the tax payer! of which shannon is guilty but no keyboard heros saying how we never got a pennny!

reland West Airport Knock has been a major beneficiary under the CAPEX Scheme and has already received almost €11m in grant aid in the period 2006 to 2011 which is considerably more than any other airport has received. This included over €4m for the terminal extension and I am pleased to see that passenger numbers using this facility have increased at the airport. However, given the current financial Exchequer constraints, no funding is being provided under the Scheme for development purposes at these airports. It is a matter for the individual airports to pursue any such proposals with their own funding.

Source?