Knock Airport

bandit197

byebye wrote: »

For a mayo "fan boy" your not well up on your history!

a quick google will see you right!

I know who said it and when, that's why I posted.

byebye

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/28/00191.asp


ireland West Airport Knock has been a major beneficiary under the CAPEX Scheme and has already received almost €11m in grant aid in the period 2006 to 2011 which is considerably more than any other airport has received. This included over €4m for the terminal extension and I am pleased to see that passenger numbers using this facility have increased at the airport. However, given the current financial Exchequer constraints, no funding is being provided under the Scheme for development purposes at these airports. It is a matter for the individual airports to pursue any such proposals with their own funding.


No campu from the horses mouth.......not mine

byebye

bandit197 wrote: »

I know who said it and when, that's why I posted.

And is it not?.....tbh i'm not sure you did....or no need for high horse!

My credibility is without fault. and at aleast i have given links to what im saying. its you're credibility i'd worry about.

not bad for a plastic paddy,:D

byebye

Neworder79 wrote: »

Why not inform us with some research rather your own inaccurate prejudiced take? Your operating figures are way off. Only the smallest airports had multi million annual subvention as they couldn't possibly cover running costs from such a low commercial base.

Knock received no operating subvention (OPEX) from 2006 - 2009 as it turned a profit and did not qualify for the subvention only given to cover losses. The average for other years where it did receive the top up was about €450,000 pa.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-12-16.1274.0&s=knock+airport+opex#g1276.0.r

Of the €27 million announced by Finna Fail for capital (CAPEX) development, about €15 million was drawn down for the ILS, runway and terminal extension. The airport also invested over €14 million from it's own resources over the last decade.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/dempseys-public-service-obligation-pso-route-decision-march-2011.html

So my hat is safe so feel free to eat yours, i'd say i have left ye of the hook a wee bit, knock airport when micko puls the plug is history. So lads best of luck and i hope the day wont come.

Neworder79

byebye, I can't make out why you're overall point is despite multiple posts.
I think you're annoyed that someone somewhere said the airport got no taxpayers money? They are clearly deluded, engage them directly rather than tar anyone who posts a comment about NOC with the same brush.

You asked for links, I posted links showing the same data as your links do. What's the problem? No one disagrees about what money was received, the data is there for anyone who looks in the various reports:

All the regionals benefited from capital investment in the last 10 years.

- Knock terminal extension, runway end upgrade, safety enhancements.
- Kerry completed a runway end extension and safety upgrades.
- Wateford runway was re-laid, lighting upgraded, and planning a major runway extension.
- Donegal has just had a full surface re-lay and turn pad extension.
- Galway added new turn pad, VOR, terminal, fire and safety upgrades.
- Sligo had safety and approach lighting enhancements.

From a planned €80 million regional upgrade program announced as part of the NDP, most was quickly cut when the banks collapsed and not drawn down. You could say some of this was wasted, but overall these projects amount to very little compared to the billions that went into capital projects at the 3 DAA airports (and rightly so, they carry vastly more).

Shannon wasn't hard done by either with direct capital and operational funding from the DAA group maintaining some of the best aviation infrastructure on the island. It simply has a legacy operating cost base which needs to be re-aligned to the reality of the day. It now has no debt and a 35 civil servant group working on a restructuring plan. And if they make the right changes they able to compete again and co-exist with NOC,KIR,ORK,DUB.

Cosmo Kramer

byebye, I can't make out why you're overall point is despite multiple posts.

Judging by his post on another thread in this section I'm guessing that 'byebye's overall point is that he is sore about Galway closing while Knock continues to be a success.

byebye

I'm aware of the regional airport fund and think its a great thing tbh, local job, improved infrastructure, etc,et
My piont is i was personaly abused by a member of the mayo clan who clamed not a penny of goverment money was put into knock. while snn was to recive money now at the time i explained thats how tax's work and are spent on nationwide projects. now if he had the balls he could of appoligsed for his compleat misinformation, but no he resulted to mud slining and personal insults, which says it all really. i have no beef with knock i spend alot of time outside ireland, but i can not stand missinformed individuals makeing personal remarks, about something they have no idea of.

I took up your post as a claim knock recived nothing so i apologize for the miss understanding.

No doubt snn needs the fat trimmed and from my sources this is to start sooner rather than later. but its the pitcfork and torch crowd who think snn will just close and fade away are mistaken



-Donegal has just had a full surface re-lay and turn pad extension.
- Galway added new turn pad, VOR, terminal, fire and safety upgrades.
- Sligo had safety and approach lighting enhancements.

You asked for links, I posted links showing the same data as your links do. What's the problem? No one disagrees about what money was received, the data is there for anyone who looks in the various reports:

All the regionals benefited from capital investment in the last 10 years.

- Knock terminal extension, runway end upgrade, safety enhancements.
- Kerry completed a runway end extension and safety upgrades.
- Wateford runway was re-laid, lighting upgraded, and planning a major runway extension.



From a planned €80 million regional upgrade program announced as part of the NDP, most was quickly cut when the banks collapsed and not drawn down. You could say some of this was wasted, but overall these projects amount to very little compared to the billions that went into capital projects at the 3 DAA airports (and rightly so, they carry vastly more).

Shannon wasn't hard done by either with direct capital and operational funding from the DAA group maintaining some of the best aviation infrastructure on the island. It simply has a legacy operating cost base which needs to be re-aligned to the reality of the day. It now has no debt and a 35 civil servant group working on a restructuring plan. And if they make the right changes they able to compete again and co-exist with NOC,KIR,ORK,DUB.[/QUOTE]

byebye

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Judging by his post on another thread in this section I'm guessing that 'byebye's overall point is that he is sore about Galway closing while Knock continues to be a success.

Can you quote this post of mine? i have nothing to do with galway or live anyplace near it so until you can quote my pro galway post id cut the little girl digs:rolleyes: and judging by your posts you have no idea what your talking about! whats galway airpot to do with knock?

finchkerry

Side note to all of this - Knock passenger numbers up 12% versus 2011 figures. This owning to new routes I'm sure, all the same encouraging stuff. Great work to all involved, long may these figures last.

byebye

byebye wrote: »

Can you quote this post of mine? i have nothing to do with galway or live anyplace near it so until you can quote my pro galway post id cut the little girl digs:rolleyes: and judging by your posts you have no idea what your talking about! whats galway airpot to do with knock?

You really are a bitter boy, We know you despise the success of Knock at shannons expense and are probably a little ashamed at the €100 million bailout of SNN by the taxpayer, but that is no reason to keep posting lies and nonsense and attacking posters. Threatening posters with violence via PM's will also not be tolerated by Admin - Hence your ban.

Even with passenger numbers getting closer between SNN and Knock i would not worry as im sure Shannons future is secure for repairs, emergencies, flights and such like ..and therefore your job/hobby is probably secure.:P

Neworder79

Neworder79 wrote: »

The airport also invested over €14 million from it's own resources over the last decade.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/dempseys-public-service-obligation-pso-route-decision-march-2011.html

You may need to explain that to him again i don't think he understands what non tax payer resources are Or the difference between operation funding and infrastructural funding.

finchkerry

finchkerry wrote: »

Side note to all of this - Knock passenger numbers up 12% versus 2011 figures. This owning to new routes I'm sure, all the same encouraging stuff. Great work to all involved, long may these figures last.

Hopefully Ryanairs promised doubling of routes will bring that closer to 1 million over the next 5 years:D As well as providing more choice for the people of the West and North West.

byebye

byebye wrote: »

well bring out our boy enda nd pals to get funding for a privately owned "foggy boggy hill"

Its not privately owned, its run as a trust for the People of the west and North west of Ireland :rolleyes: Therefore all monies gets reinvested back into the airport;) you should really get your facts straight before you attack and criticise every single poster on this board.
The people of the West and North West are also taxpayers, are they not also entitled to infrastructure ??(even part of which they uniquely pay for themselves) Or is all Airport funding meant to be just wasted in Shannon ? WHat next ..Taxpayers Pay people to fly from Shannon ?

eyeinthesky

Hi mayomaffia, the begrudgers are still complaining but then they have nothing else to complain about. They are not worth replying to as most of the time they have not checked their facts but when it comes to the big loss making airports they are very scant with their comments. Personally i think as long as Knock is successful the begrudgers will still be whining, or maybe flying from Knock.

highlydebased

Deleted User wrote: »

Or is all Airport funding meant to be just wasted in Shannon ? WHat next ..Taxpayers Pay people to fly from Shannon ?

Would you ever stop with that tripe? You complain about people "begruding knock" yet you think it's fine to turn around and make comments like that

highlydebased

highlydebased wrote: »

Would you ever stop with that tripe? You complain about people "begruding knock" yet you think it's fine to turn around and make comments like that

Fair enough, i honestly dont have anything against Shannon and did use it in the distant past, i just think that all viable airports should be treated the same by the government. Waste should not be rewarded, even more so in these times.

eyeinthesky

highlydebased wrote: »

Would you ever stop with that tripe? You complain about people "begruding knock" yet you think it's fine to turn around and make comments like that

Now we can see when the real facts are presented the begrudgers start running for cover.

finchkerry

May UK stats for Knock:

LTN +23%
BHX +24%
EMA +25%
LPL +15%
BRS +9%
MAN -37%

Can someone please explain these stats? Ok I take it the + sign is always good but would that suggest the route is doing well and making a definite profit resulting in a sustainable route? Just interested into the background in all of this.

highlydebased

It means an increase (or decrease where a - is present) in numbers carried per flight but indicates little as regard profit. All the seats could well have been given away for free to fill the flight, for arguments sake.

Neworder79

Looks like % change in numbers traveling compared to the previous year. CAA publish stats like that monthly. Alone they are no indication of profitability but do show trend and passengers carried. Example : the drop at Manchester would be down to smaller FlyBe aircraft replacing a BmiBaby 737 service, but may result in higher profitability.

Thatsfootball

Personally I believe there is great scope for Knock to expand. I'm relatively local so would love to see it grow.
The trans-Atlantic flights must be revisited. Knock has one of the longest airports in the country and its well long enough for jets.
Knock seems to be the most westerly airport in Europe, or at least on most of the flight paths to America.
I believe a refuelling stopover can surely be looked at, something that would certainly bring revenue into the airport for future expansion etc.

Thoughts?

IngazZagni

Thatsfootball wrote: »

Personally I believe there is great scope for Knock to expand. I'm relatively local so would love to see it grow.
The trans-Atlantic flights must be revisited. Knock has one of the longest airports in the country and its well long enough for jets.
Knock seems to be the most westerly airport in Europe, or at least on most of the flight paths to America.
I believe a refuelling stopover can surely be looked at, something that would certainly bring revenue into the airport for future expansion etc.

Thoughts?

I disagree. I think Knock has almost reached its full potential. It has done very well for itself no doubt but I don't think there is much scope for it to expand. Only maybe the odd new route being added with the odd route dropped.

As for transatlantic. A non runner I feel. The whole refueling stopover thing is becoming increasingly less common as newer aircraft have better range and don't need to stop for fuel. Knock would not be able to compete with Shannon on this front either with the pre-clearance facilities. It's runway is also relatively small for widebodies. 2300m vs 2600 at DUB and 3200m in SNN.

Tenger

Thatsfootball wrote: »

......I'm relatively local so would love to see it grow. The trans-Atlantic flights must be revisited. Knock has one of the longest airports in the country and its well long enough for jets.
Knock seems to be the most westerly airport in Europe, or at least on most of the flight paths to America.
I believe a refuelling stopover can surely be looked at, something that would certainly bring revenue into the airport for future expansion etc.

With SNN and DUB within 2-3 hours by road,I doubt that any T/A market from NOC itself would be worth it.

As for refuelling....do you mean refuelling at NOC enroute to the US or aircraft from NOC stopping off enroute?

The first option is a non runner, that is the premise behind the history of SNN. Longer range jets ended that raison d'etre. (Although there is still life there)

And if a/c from NOC need to refuel enroute (ie. an ETOPS B737) then that will further reduce the profit margin/viability of any T/A route from NOC.

finchkerry

This maybe more of a tourism ireland point but thought to share it none the less. I have been in London on business quite a bit of late and pick up the free papers morning (metro) and evening (evening standard) and every day for the last two/three weeks there have been several advertisements to knock. Mainly the Aer lingus london route, even ryanair have got in on the act and have been promoting their london routes to knock. Tourism Ireland have been running adverts specifically about the west of Ireland and Clare. All three bodies Aer Lingus and Tourism Ireland especially must have spent copious amounts advertising routes to knock. I know Tourism Ireland are targeting Londoners during the Olympics to get away from it all to use one of their slogans.

All this must be very encouraging for the airport. Great to see Tourism Ireland and Aer Lingus really get behind Knock. Due to the level of advertisement undertaken by Aer Lingus I wonder do they want to a) increase their route from London Gatwick to Knock or b) develop new routes from the airport

finchkerry

finchkerry wrote: »

Due to the level of advertisement undertaken by Aer Lingus I wonder do they want to a) increase their route from London Gatwick to Knock or b) develop new routes from the airport

Hopefully its the transfer of one of the SNN Heathrow routes to Knock to serve the business community in the West and North West...with an early departure.

L1011

Business routes in and out of NOC are limited by its opening hours. Its never going to get the premium slots so it needs to make do with the earlier morning and later evening ones - except the bloody airport is closed!

Neworder79

Ads may be run by the airlines themselves. But Mayo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Sligo and Donegal local authorities got togeather with Tourism Ireland, the Western Development Commission and Ireland West Airport Knock a couple of months ago to launch the Western Region Tourism Marketing Programme.

€600,000 funding came from Failte Ireland of an estimated total €1.4m marketing fund when airline, airport and travel partners marketing leverage is included. Being spent mainly in UK, France, Germany and Italy to focus on key markets and new european routes from Ryanair and Lufthansa, promoting outdoor activities, culture and heritage of the NW region.

finchkerry

That's great to see local authorities getting behind their airport in order to get tourists into their area.

I'm not sure if people understand the level of readership these papers posses in London. Basically they are free and in both mornings and evening it is the norm that you would not see a Londoner without a copy. The evening standard alone has a readership of over 1,000,000, think of that in terms of the amount of Irish independent and times are sold in Ireland.

I saw a clip on the knock site in which the MD said in a few years they want over one million passengers I would say in order to do this opening times would have to be altered to accommodate for early morning and late night flights.

Neworder79

The opening times aren't rigid, they change every day to suit the schedule, E.g. the 6.30 service from Stansted (also open until 22:00 a few weeks back to accommodate an Italian charter).

A morning LHR service would be ideal for business and connections. There's plenty scope to accommodate more morning and afternoon flights without any change to current hours, apron space may be more of an issue at times though.

Late Friday and Sunday London services must be in high demand given the amount of people commuting for work and lack of business connectivity. Surprised Ryanair haven't upped Stansted, but EI Gatwick service along with Luton may have diluted the market.

highlydebased

Deleted User wrote: »

Hopefully its the transfer of one of the SNN Heathrow routes to Knock to serve the business community in the West and North West...with an early departure.

lol, Dermot Mannion is gone from Aer Lingus you know! I doubt they'll make such a (costly) error again...