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What’s the best diet for weight loss ?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Basil3 wrote: »
    What do you suggest you do for these foods?

    avoid :)


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    markmoto wrote: »
    avoid :)

    You're too predictable. Try some carbs, get that brain firing on all cylinders :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Yes it would. Because, Science.

    556632.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Basil3 wrote: »
    You're too predictable. Try some carbs, get that brain firing on all cylinders :)

    watch 1 min video how to fire brain on all cylinders :)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    markmoto wrote: »
    watch 1 min video how to fire brain on all cylinders :)


    So rats that are fed too much of an unhealthy diet get lost when swimming around. Interesting stuff.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I'll be sure to tell rats of the dangers of sugar and msg to them. And go with human science for humans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭Lucy8080


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Use of calories, and calorie measurement for food is well proven at this stage. Yes, there may be small differences in how calories are processed (small enough they make little difference over a day/ week), and different people have different TDEE (for a wide variety of reasons), but that doesn't actually change anything. Because, Science!

    Calorie measurement for food is well proven. It is measured in a Lab.

    How "calories" burn off in a body has no relation. Our bodies are not a jar of water that boils in response to the energy in a foodstuff ,as if we have a pilot light inside the body.

    Because, science!

    The hoops folks jump through to justify this measure of "how burning food in laboratory conditions to raise the temperature of water" somehow equates to how a body "burns" the same food is incredulous.

    Yet, when I go out shopping for food, that word "Calorie" is top of the list on a break-down of what the food contains.

    It sells food products. Energy, they call it, these days!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    And yet millions of people are able to control their weight, when they try, through calorie counting. Millions more do it through other methods that result in a calorie deficit, such as IF or Keto.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Unfortunately millions getting obese same time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    markmoto wrote: »
    Unfortunately millions getting obese same time.
    Following calorie controlled diets?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    "Calories" and whether it is a useful measure of aught, is the only question I have asked here.

    I am not here to give health advice. By default , it may be a helpful understanding for some.



    You have yet to make a point on it though. Just asked the question.


    So why do you think talking about calories is redundant. A straight answer that doesn't involve repeating back to someone what they have said and making cryptic comments or just making questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Following calorie controlled diets?

    Already discussed on page 25, why many obese people can't control and that's why they are obese in the first place
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117472845


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    markmoto wrote: »
    Already discussed on page 25, why many obese people can't control and that's why they are obese in the first place
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=117472845



    You haven't said how you get them to reduce their food intake in a way that allows them to do so with no cravings across the board.


    And you put up a graph that showed carbs aren't the problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭Lucy8080


    You have yet to make a point on it though. Just asked the question.


    So why do you think talking about calories is redundant. A straight answer that doesn't involve repeating back to someone what they have said and making cryptic comments or just making questions.

    A "Calorie" is the measure of how heat applied to food raises the temperature of water by degrees.

    A body does not react to the ingestion of foodstuffs or extract its energy in this manner.

    I'm not sure what the "cryptic" remark means....I have been making this point consistently throughout this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    You haven't said how you get them to reduce their food intake in a way that allows them to do so with no cravings across the board.

    I thought I did? :)

    Rephrase in short craving disappears naturally once you get adapted to ketogenic diet. Hence no willpower, calories control require. In fact at later stage you can even go without food for a day or two no probs.

    Do you know any better options?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    A "Calorie" is the measure of how heat applied to food raises the temperature of water by degrees.

    A body does not react to the ingestion of foodstuffs or extract its energy in this manner.

    I'm not sure what the "cryptic" remark means....I have been making this point consistently throughout this thread.

    I was being generous about a couple of comments saying they were cryptic.

    But anyway, back to calories. I understand your point that the calculation of the caloric content of a food doesn't reflect how it's processed in the body. Twins could eat the same diet and their bodies might reach differently. The body is very complex and science is not yet at a point where we can quantify how the body processes food.

    But that doesn't override the whole concept of energy balance. It affects how you calculate calories in (and, to a lesser degree, calories out).
    If you consume more calorie than your body needs, then you will put on weight and if you consume less, you lose weight.

    Screen-Shot-2017-05-24-at-10.33.05.png


    If you calculate your caloric intake (as calculated in a lab) to be 1800 calories and you have used assorted calculators to tell you that that would be a deficit of 300 calories, if you lose weight you're consuming fewer calories than your body is using. Conversely, if you put on weight, then you're consuming too many calories.

    The CICO model is not capable of being a model based on precision. That's impossible. It's a gauge for managing food intake to manage weight. So I don't see why it's redundant because the lab calculated caloric content doesn't necessarily match how it's used by the body.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    markmoto wrote: »
    I thought I did? :)

    Rephrase in short craving disappears naturally once you get adapted to ketogenic diet. Hence no willpower, calories control require. In fact at later stage you can even go without food for a day or two no probs.

    Do you know any better options?



    How long does it take everyone to adapt to the ketogenic diet? Not the just the mean time but the range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    How long does it take everyone to adapt to the ketogenic diet? Not the just the mean time but the range.

    What is your point?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    markmoto wrote: »
    What is your point?



    Cravings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Cravings.

    All depend everyone is different.
    Try for your self and let me know


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    markmoto wrote: »
    All depend everyone is different.
    Try for your self and let me know

    Therein lies my point. I'm not anti keto. I'm pro whatever works for the individual. Keto won't work for some. It will work for others.
    It's not a silver bullet. But it is a good bullet for those who find it sustainable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭Lucy8080


    I was being generous about a couple of comments saying they were cryptic.

    But anyway, back to calories. I understand your point that the calculation of the caloric content of a food doesn't reflect how it's processed in the body. Twins could eat the same diet and their bodies might reach differently. The body is very complex and science is not yet at a point where we can quantify how the body processes food.

    But that doesn't override the whole concept of energy balance. It affects how you calculate calories in (and, to a lesser degree, calories out).
    If you consume more calorie than your body needs, then you will put on weight and if you consume less, you lose weight.

    Screen-Shot-2017-05-24-at-10.33.05.png


    If you calculate your caloric intake (as calculated in a lab) to be 1800 calories and you have used assorted calculators to tell you that that would be a deficit of 300 calories, if you lose weight you're consuming fewer calories than your body is using. Conversely, if you put on weight, then you're consuming too many calories.

    The CICO model is not capable of being a model based on precision. That's impossible. It's a gauge for managing food intake to manage weight. So I don't see why it's redundant because the lab calculated caloric content doesn't necessarily match how it's used by the body.

    " Calorie".

    I've explained what that word means and how it is quantified.

    One could eat more calories and lose weight. It is not a fact that " if you put on weight then you're consuming too many calories" , unless of course one refuses to understand what a calorie is and how we come by its measure!

    The above is me making a concession to that word in order to show it has the meaning we wish to lend to it, rather than accept it for its plain unadulterated meaning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,558 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    It is not a fact that " if you put on weight then you're consuming too many calories" , unless of course one refuses to understand what a calorie is and how we come by its measure

    You're missing the point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,092 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    Please read your own post and the questions you imagine that you are catching me out on!

    Well the four questions you just dodged as an example.
    Suggesting a healthy weight loss diet should have been simple.

    “A gram isn’t a scientific unit”. Oh my sweet baby Jesus. :pac:
    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    A "Calorie" is the measure of how heat applied to food raises the temperature of water by degrees.
    No it isn’t. It’s a unit of energy.
    You are still confusing the process and the unit.
    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    One could eat more calories and lose weight.It is not a fact that " if you put on weight then you're consuming too many calories" ,.

    Eat more calories than what? That sentence is incomplete.

    But if you put on fat, it is absolutely a fact that there was excess energy. This is really basic science.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭markmoto


    Mellor wrote: »
    But if you put on fat, it is absolutely a fact that there was excess energy. This is really basic science.


    The basic science, If you have healthy/unhealthy microbiome excess energy intake pushed out in a form of poop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,092 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    markmoto wrote: »
    The basic science, If you have healthy/unhealthy microbiome excess energy intake pushed out in a form of poop.

    Read that back to yourself.

    Both health and unheathly people - ie the entire population is one or the other.
    Poop out their excess energy.

    So nobody anywhere puts on weight. :confused::pac::pac::pac:


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,906 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    " Calorie".

    I've explained what that word means and how it is quantified.

    One could eat more calories and lose weight. It is not a fact that " if you put on weight then you're consuming too many calories" , unless of course one refuses to understand what a calorie is and how we come by its measure!

    The above is me making a concession to that word in order to show it has the meaning we wish to lend to it, rather than accept it for its plain unadulterated meaning.


    Mod Note: Right, this has descended into pedantry. The next post arguing the definition of a calorie gets a break from the forum.

    That's not just aimed at Lucy8080.

    This thread has been dragged waaay off topic. Can we please get back to the main topic: What's the best diet for weight loss?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Patsy167


    Would be good to create a final TL;DR summary to wrap up what we'e learned from the last 32 pages.

    To get the ball rolling:
    - there’s no one-size-fits-all approach when it comes to diet/food - the same dietary advice doesn’t work for everyone.
    - “trial and error” is needed to find what is easily sustainable for you in the long run.


    lap5mip9i7d41.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=morbid+obesity+long+term+dieting+success+rates&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DPbyGlcWTXloJ

    Long term there isn't one.

    Most obese people fail in the long term.

    In the review above 15% achieved one of the study criteria when followed up.

    It's the perfect business environment if you are selling a diet/lifestyle/fitness advice


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin



    Long term there isn't one.

    Most obese people fail in the long term.

    In the review above 15% achieved one of the study criteria when followed up.

    It's the perfect business environment if you are selling a diet/lifestyle/fitness advice

    Long term is lifestyle/behaviour change, that’s the only thing that really works.


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