Budget 2017

Mary63 · 13-10-2016 10:41pm

Talking about Benefits did I read correctly that anyone who qualifies for Domilliary Carers allowance is also entitled to a medical card from now on.

As far as I know DCA isn't means tested,I know parents who get this who have two brand new BMWS in their driveway.They send their children to private schools,they own at least six properties,two abroad which they rent.They probably earn about three hundred thousand euros between the two of them,how can this be right.

foggy_lad · 13-10-2016 10:48pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Talking about Benefits did I read correctly that anyone who qualifies for Domilliary Carers allowance is also entitled to a medical card from now on.

As far as I know DCA isn't means tested,I know parents who get this who have two brand new BMWS in their driveway.They send their children to private schools,they own at least six properties,two abroad which they rent.They probably earn about three hundred thousand euros between the two of them,how can this be right.

No, any child who the allowance is paid for will automatically be entitled to the medical card, previously it was means tested, parents and carers will have to apply and be means tested same as before.

LegallyAbroad · 13-10-2016 10:59pm

myshirt wrote: »

So a bunch of feminists? That's where you got your information?

A complete falsity, and complete bullsh!t.

We're very unlikely to find any common ground if:

1. You think the OECD and UN are "a bunch of feminisits"; and/or
2. You think "bunch of feminists" to be a derogatory term.

Mary63 · 13-10-2016 11:01pm

The allowance isn't means tested foggy lad,is that right.

Why would the parents of a child who is in receipt of DCA be entitled to a medical card of their own.

Does this mean that if you are on a DCA allowance and medical card you can use the medical card to get free university tuition.

The teen who has the DCA allowance regardless of their parents income then goes on their own disability allowance at sixteen even if they are still in full time education.Their parents also get child benefit which isn't means tested either.These parents can then use the DCA which is a few hundred euros a month to pay for private therapies and still queue up like everyone else for the limited public appointments available.They have thousands of euros of their own to pay for any therapies their children need,this is mad stuff.

LegallyAbroad · 13-10-2016 11:18pm

techdiver wrote: »

Some, not all of these households could be educated and with skills, especially in recent years when the arse fell out from under many sectors of the economy.

Freeing up positions will reduce zero income households and each reduction is a double whammy from an exchequer point of view. Welfare recipient to tax contributor.

That would cost an absolute fortune and may not even be possible. A significant proportion of these households had no one working from 2002-2008.

You seem to be trying to shoe-horn an ideological position (one parent staying at home) in to being economically/revenue positive.

LegallyAbroad · 13-10-2016 11:20pm

Mary63 wrote: »

legallyabroad,how does giving twenty thousand to a young house buyer increase supply and how are we going to ensure builders don't just slap another twenty thousand onto house prices.

The Government aren't giving them €20,000. They're giving them €20,000 in tax credits if they buy a new build. It increase supply by encouraging the purchase of new builds over existing stock and by making mortgages slightly more affordable for those wishing to purchase same.

foggy_lad · 13-10-2016 11:31pm

Mary63 wrote: »

The allowance isn't means tested foggy lad,is that right.

It is not means tested afaik

Why would the parents of a child who is in receipt of DCA be entitled to a medical card of their own.

The parents would not be entitled to a medical card unless they earned below the limits. and up to now the child was not entitled either unless the parents earnings were below the limits.

Does this mean that if you are on a DCA allowance and medical card you can use the medical card to get free university tuition.

I have no idea.

The teen who has the DCA allowance regardless of their parents income then goes on their own disability allowance at sixteen even if they are still in full time education.Their parents also get child benefit which isn't means tested either.These parents can then use the DCA which is a few hundred euros a month to pay for private therapies and still queue up like everyone else for the limited public appointments available.They have thousands of euros of their own to pay for any therapies their children need,this is mad stuff.

Once the teen goes onto invalidity or disability pension the DCA payment to the parents ceases!

They will only continue to get children's allowance if the teen is still in full time education

As for the DCA and eligibility criteria the welfare.ie site states:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Domiciliary-Care-Allowance.aspx#1

6. Medical Criteria

In order to qualify for DCA a child must have a disability so severe that it requires the child needing care and attention and / or supervision substantially in excess of another child of the same age. This care and attention must be given by another person, almost all of the time, so that the child can deal with the activities of daily living. The child must be likely to require this level of care and attention for at least 12 months.

Eligibility for DCA is not based primarily on the medical or psychological condition, but on the resulting lack of function of body or mind necessitating the degree of extra care and attention required. As such it is not possible to say if a particular child or any particular condition/disability will qualify for a payment under the scheme. Each application is assessed on an individual basis taking account of the evidence submitted.

Mary63 · 13-10-2016 11:52pm

But someone at sixteen can get a disability payment of their own even though they are still in full time education and not available for work.

Surely a disability payment should be for someone not able to work.Many people are in full time secondary education now till they are nineteen so that means a person could get disability payments for three years while in secondary school.If a person is able to cope with secondary school life they aren't in the care of their parents for most of the day,they are in school and assisted there is some cases by SNAS provided free of charge by the State.

Why should any parent who quite clearly is very wealthy get any DCA for their teen.Why isn't this means tested and why should this teen get a medical card too when his parents can afford to pay GPS fees.

JustTheOne · 14-10-2016 8:45am

Mary63 wrote: »

But someone at sixteen can get a disability payment of their own even though they are still in full time education and not available for work.

Surely a disability payment should be for someone not able to work.Many people are in full time secondary education now till they are nineteen so that means a person could get disability payments for three years while in secondary school.If a person is able to cope with secondary school life they aren't in the care of their parents for most of the day,they are in school and assisted there is some cases by SNAS provided free of charge by the State.

Why should any parent who quite clearly is very wealthy get any DCA for their teen.Why isn't this means tested and why should this teen get a medical card too when his parents can afford to pay GPS fees.

Highest disability claimees in Europe.

Harvey Normal · 14-10-2016 9:01am

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

The Government aren't giving them €20,000. They're giving them €20,000 in tax credits if they buy a new build. It increase supply by encouraging the purchase of new builds over existing stock and by making mortgages slightly more affordable for those wishing to purchase same.

It's like throwing petrol on the fire to encourage the fire brigade.

The tax credits are designed to push up prices. That's the mechanism that's supposed to encourage supply. As opposed to reducing costs or vat on houses provided they retail at <250k.

Since this is a temporary measure the longer term idea is higher prices without the measure meaning the government is pricing in future permanent increases in house prices.

Mary63 · 14-10-2016 9:13am

As opposed to the Government setting control on house prices or having a certificate of reasonable value.No bank is to lend money above this reasonable value price which means we won't be doing another big bailout of the banks in ten years.

If anyone wants to pay a builder an amount above what an independent valuer agrees is a reasonable price for a house then they do so out of their own savings.

This measure could be introduced in the morning but it won't be because the developers lobby is so strong.

The DCA warriors are very strong too,how absurd is it that someone on a half a million euro salary can claim a DCA allowance for their child and get it and then get a medical card for said child too.The elderly couples are then struggling to mind each other at home and maybe getting one half hour a day to help them shower in the morning.They are ending up in nursing homes when they could stay at home if they had home help for two hours a day and the nursing home care costs the state a lot more than a couple of hours extra home care would cost.

How absurd is it that the Government gives people a Back to School allowance for school costs and children arrive back in September with no books but a nice sun tan.You then have Sparks or some other outfit using Paul Murphy as a mouthpiece shouting that its unfair that schools won't give out books to people who haven't paid for them.Where does Paul Murphy and his people before profit stooges think an endless supply of money is going to come from.

lawlolawl · 14-10-2016 10:31am

Mary63 wrote: »

Where does Paul Murphy and his people before profit stooges think an endless supply of money is going to come from.

"De rich!", which is anybody even one financial notch above his voter base.

TheDoc · 14-10-2016 10:44am

Mary63 wrote: »

Im not condoning tax dodging but if you are only getting five euros an hour for minding children I can't see why you would bother with the red tape of declaring it and also opening your home to be subject to inspection by Tusla.

To make this worth your while you would probably want to get twenty euros an hour and that means the low paid worker isn't going to be able to go to work.

I know you can earn fifteen thousand a year before being liable for tax by childminding but for many people they just want to do it casually with a neighbour of friend and they don't want to have employer liabilities or have to do tax returns.Many of these childminders smoke(horror) and serve the mindees chicken nuggets everyday.They may also have dogs,cats etc in the food preparation area,all no,no to the Tusla people.Many of the childminders too may not have informed their household insurance people that they are childminding either and this is probably another box that has to be ticked.

All in all a very silly idea.It would have been much better to have increased the Child benefit and taxed it,this means all parents including those who want to be at home with their children can have the money to spend as they wish.Giving the money to the creche owners could mean that it will be grabbed with both hands and then prices increased anyway.

The creche staff are paid abysmally,they earn approx twenty thousand euross a year and often are let go for the summer.Does anyone actually look at where the high costs parents are paying is going.Surely the biggest cost of any business must be wages and if its up to two thousand a month to have two children minded full time and the staff are paid ten euros an hour there must be a lot of profit.

From going through this process myself searching for childcare, and my partner is also qualified in childcare and has outlined the same.

Typically when looking for care in your own home, there is an initial rate per hour, but as you go through the meeting/interview process and narrow it down, you find out it is actually a lot less.

Most of the individuals we spoke to initially advertised €10/15 ph but when it came to discussing it was without much effort worked down to €5-8 ph

Really didn't take a genius to work out none of this was likely declared income, and to be perfectly honest I wouldn't begrudge them. It's pittance for really important work, and minding/caring for a parents most prized possesion.

14-10-2016 11:20am

TheDoc wrote: »

Most of the individuals we spoke to initially advertised €10/15 ph but when it came to discussing it was without much effort worked down to €5-8 ph

.

It should be noted that childmiders who mind children in their own home can earn up to 15k tax free so people doing it on a smallish scale wouldn't be evading tax.

Butters1979 · 14-10-2016 1:56pm

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

The Government aren't giving them €20,000. They're giving them €20,000 in tax credits if they buy a new build. It increase supply by encouraging the purchase of new builds over existing stock and by making mortgages slightly more affordable for those wishing to purchase same.

No. It's a balls up. It may in the long term encourage new houses builds, but for now it just jacked up the prices of existing new builds.

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/new-homes-soar-45000-in-the-hours-after-budget-35129489.html

suicide_circus · 14-10-2016 1:59pm

The only thing the government can do about housing is build more ****ing houses.

Mary63 · 14-10-2016 2:38pm

Its not tax liability that is the issue with childminders who want to stay under the radar.
The miserable amount they earn could affect a medical card entitlement for example.The children they mind cheaply could be off spring of other people who only wsnt to earn enough to stay under the threshold for medical cards and other low income payments.If these people cant get cheap childcare they will stop working completely.They dont want fulltime childcare even if the Government contribute towards it.
How did we come to think forty hours in a creche fot a baby is necessarily something the State should be funding.

BoatMad · 14-10-2016 5:07pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The only thing the government can do about housing is build more ****ing houses.

Gov cant " build " houses that are underpriced under EU law. its called a state subsidy

BoatMad · 14-10-2016 5:09pm

Its not tax liability that is the issue with childminders who want to stay under the radar.

the very deification of " under the radar" is that they want to avoid tax liability and its effects

No Gov can condone that or bring in policies to support that

BoatMad · 14-10-2016 5:10pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Many of these "part time" child minders are also on social welfare payments so can't register or declare any income or they will lose their benefits, they make a little extra by minding a child whose parent is working part time and only charging about half the crèche rates. many people would not be able to go back to work because of the cost of childcare if not for these women.

There are all sorts of provisions in the JSB & JSA that allow certain incomes to e earned with a gradual reduction in social welfare etc

what you are proposing is an under the table income scheme, no Gov can condone that

Mary63 · 14-10-2016 6:01pm

The Government are turning a blind eye Boatmad because it suits them.

By having a supply of women who will mind children for a few euros an hour the Government doesn't have to spend millions on creche places.We spend a minuscule amount of money on childcare places compared to the rest of Europe and until we have the money to spend on creches and provide enough places the creches will be beyond the pay packet of two thirds of the workforce.

The Budget proposals won't help two thirds of people looking for childcare at all because these people use family or unregistered childminders.We are now going to hand some childcare providers the money directly.Creches are in the business to make money so doubt if the people who actually work in the creches will see any of this money going on their salaries.Even if we build a thousand new creches in the morning there are no staff available to take care of the children,why would anyone work so hard minding other peoples children for ten euros an hour.

I noticed also that if you employ someone to mind the children in your home you don't qualify for any subsidy at all,this surely is the best option for babies,to be minded in their own homes and yet if you want help with the childcare bill which in this case is probably the most expensive childcare of all (unless you exploit an au pair) you won't get a cent.

BoatMad · 14-10-2016 6:07pm

Mary63 wrote: »

The Government are turning a blind eye Boatmad because it suits them.

By having a supply of women who will mind children for a few euros an hour the Government doesn't have to spend millions on creche places.We spend a minuscule amount of money on childcare places compared to the rest of Europe and until we have the money to spend on creches and provide enough places the creches will be beyond the pay packet of two thirds of the workforce.

The Budget proposals won't help two thirds of people looking for childcare at all because these people use family or unregistered childminders.We are now going to hand some childcare providers the money directly.Creches are in the business to make money so doubt if the people who actually work in the creches will see any of this money going on their salaries.Even if we build a thousand new creches in the morning there are no staff available to take care of the children,why would anyone work so hard minding other peoples children for ten euros an hour.

I noticed also that if you employ someone to mind the children in your home you don't qualify for any subsidy at all,this surely is the best option for babies,to be minded in their own homes and yet if you want help with the childcare bill which in this case is probably the most expensive childcare of all (unless you exploit an au pair) you won't get a cent.

This is just really envy politics . The Gov clearly wants to develop the registered and professional side of child caring, it cannot be seen to benefit unregistered amateurs , while at the same time setting forth a strategy to ensure professional standards in childminding , you would be undermining your own process

The minister feels that capacity is present to cope with demand, in the absence of proof to the contary , ill wait and see

You cannot support unregistered people minding children in your own home , I see no reason why consideration of supporting professional childminding in your home shouldn't be considered in the future as the budget allows , i.e. the childminder was a registered professional , and you were paying the appropriate employer taxes etc

Clampdown · 14-10-2016 7:46pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

What's stopping you from, y'know, getting a job??

The lack of vacancies genius! There are no jobs where I live, the Northwest is still in dire shape. I look every single day. I have no transport and having to pay all rent and bills out of 188 a week means I can't save enough to relocate somewhere with more opportunities.

I worked my whole adult life and had a job when the recession started. The business closed. On the dole for 3 months and then I went back to college and earned a degree. Worked at a hotel during the weekends. The min wage was then lowered so the hotel hired some Polish lad on the lower rate and gave him my hours. College finished and I was on the dole for 3 months again, I then did a 9 month Jobbridge to nowhere, the company just used the scheme for free labour. On the dole again for another 6 months. Found a job doing 12 hour nights in a factory on 30 day fixed contracts, which were renewed for a year until they filled their quota and then I was back on the dole again and have been now for a year.

But go ahead and paint me as a lazy dole lifer. You and the people who thanked your post have no idea how badly this recession has hurt some of us, especially the younger people, or just how badly the cards are stacked against us to try and get out of the situation. I can't even get to the interview stage for menial jobs like working in a cafe or shop. There are hardly any vacancies aroun here and ridiculous amounts of people applying for the few that pop up.

If I lived in Dublin I'd probably have little trouble finding work but I don't have a few grand lying spare to cover relocation to the capital which is what you'd need with current rents there.

JustTheOne · 14-10-2016 7:54pm

Clampdown wrote: »

The lack of vacancies genius! There are no jobs where I live, the Northwest is still in dire shape. I look every single day. I have no transport and having to pay all rent and bills out of 188 a week means I can't save enough to relocate somewhere with more opportunities.

I worked my whole adult life and had a job when the recession started. The business closed. On the dole for 3 months and then I went back to college and earned a degree. Worked at a hotel during the weekends. The min wage was then lowered so the hotel hired some Polish lad on the lower rate and gave him my hours. College finished and I was on the dole for 3 months again, I then did a 9 month Jobbridge to nowhere, the company just used the scheme for free labour. On the dole again for another 6 months. Found a job doing 12 hour nights in a factory on 30 day fixed contracts, which were renewed for a year until they filled their quota and then I was back on the dole again and have been now for a year.

But go ahead and paint me as a lazy dole lifer. You and the people who thanked your post have no idea how badly this recession has hurt some of us, especially the younger people, or just how badly the cards are stacked against us to try and get out of the situation. I can't even get to the interview stage for menial jobs like working in a cafe or shop. There are hardly any vacancies aroun here and ridiculous amounts of people applying for the few that pop up.

If I lived in Dublin I'd probably have little trouble finding work but I don't have a few grand lying spare to cover relocation to the capital which is what you'd need with current rents there.

You sound like a genuine person who just needs a bit of help and luck.

Hope things work out in the future.

Bigby · 15-10-2016 12:41am

Best of luck, Clampdown. Young people in this country are treated very badly. Mainly because we don't vote in huge numbers. The biggest issue among young people outside of Dublin at the moment is trying to get on the road, it's no lie that it would cost about €4k between, tax, the lessons to do the test and of course the outrageous insurance costs. All that before you buy the fcuking car! But who cares? Give the elderly a few extra bob and all is well in the world again.

This country is no place for 17-35 year olds.

Widdershins · 15-10-2016 9:43am

Mary63 wrote: »

How did we come to think forty hours in a creche fot a baby is necessarily something the State should be funding.

It's crazy!

Harvey Normal · 15-10-2016 12:24pm

BoatMad wrote: »

Gov cant " build " houses that are underpriced under EU law. its called a state subsidy

That's probably bollocks. States across Europe build housing.

Budget 2017

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