Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

iptba · 28-03-2013 10:50pm

MMAGirl wrote: »

So because im a woman i can post my experience in this thread.
Not that is .....

I think you meant "can't" in the first sentence? Will read it that way.

If it related to the conversation e.g. somebody thought something was sexist against men but somebody gave a counterargument, it might then be on topic. But the example you gave doesn't seem to fit that, that I can see - or was there a particular post you had in mind?

The original poster specified what he was looking for in the first post, although the title itself may appear a bit unclear if one hasn't read that post.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 29-03-2013 4:52pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

As to men, my experience is that the more chivalrous one is, the more chauvinistic he is once you scratch the surface, without exception.

Well said, that's very much true alright.

I know one guy in particular that will completely fawn over women, the real knight in shining armor. However once the woman's back is turned cue a million and one lewd, sexual or condescending comments.

In fairness a lot of the women don't see through him, some do.

strobe · 29-03-2013 7:39pm

Playboy wrote: »

Woman now have a baby on board badgte they wear which helps with any confusion

is this a common thing over there man? Pregnant women wearing 'baby on board' badges?

Playboy · 29-03-2013 8:15pm

No

strobe wrote: »

is this a common thing over there man? Pregnant women wearing 'baby on board' badges?

Yes... And it's a good idea imo. I have mistakenly offered a woman a seat a couple of times because I thought they might be pregnant but it turned out they just had a bit of a belly. I don't blame them for being offended in that case but it is a honest mistake and particularly the second time around I got a very aggressive reaction. Transport for London now sends out free baby on board badges to expectant mothers on request so thankfully those kind of situations can be avoided now most of the time. Tbh the tube gets so busy that it can be very uncomfortable for a pregnant woman if standing. Had a lady nearly puke on me recently because she had morning sickness and standing in a very cramped space was the last thing she needed.

The Corinthian · 30-03-2013 1:17pm

Playboy wrote: »

I think it is partially down to what a multi cultural city London is. You have people from all cultures and walks of life working and living in the city and some cultures still have a more old fashioned approach to things that harks back to a bygone era.

Fair enough; I was thinking more of Western culture in the context of someone who has grown up in a post-feminist society, as opposed to an immigrant from an Islamic nation who still holds onto medieval views with regard to the genders.

I think there are a lot of people out there whilst believing in equality still think some of this old fashioned chivalric behaviour is a essential component of good manners.

Not Westerners though, although Americans are often a law onto themselves in this regard.

iptba · 30-03-2013 3:11pm

I'm not convinced that chivalry is necessarily dying out. I think plenty of men are still more willing to put themselves out for women than other men. Part of it may be that they feel it might increase their chances of dating/similar the woman.

The Corinthian · 30-03-2013 4:46pm

iptba wrote: »

I'm not convinced that chivalry is necessarily dying out.

The conventions of chivalry will likely not fully die out for centuries. After all, we still follow social conventions that we don't even understand and are frankly irrelevant.

For example, when passing women or older people we still often pass them on the outside (in the direction of the middle of the road). Why? Because roads were once concave and unpaved, with horse mature, rainwater and all sort of refuse collecting in the centre, so giving others the 'high ground' was a courtesy.

Or the tradition of toasting; in reality born of paranoia, where both would drink simultaneously, while watching each other (eye contact is still important as part of the toast in many countries) so as to ensure that no one was being poisoned.

And many of the superficial traditions of chivalry will also continue in the same vain, long after we even know were they came from or what they're supposed to mean.

However, the less superficial ones - those that require actual sacrifice - will go the way of the dodo. And this is already increasingly the case.

Hococop · 30-03-2013 5:15pm

i remember reading some article years ago before about an all male golf club, anyway women golfers felt this was sexist to keep it an all male golf club in modern society which is understandable, the golf club understood this and opened to both males and females, yet within a short time of the change made the female golfers complained that they were paying the same fees as male golfers and felt they should be entitled to cheaper fees

Hococop · 30-03-2013 5:21pm

shoos wrote: »

I just came across this article and it reminded me of this post.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nfl-cheerleader-charged-offering-sex-pre-teen-article-1.1295895

42 year old woman sexually assaults 12 year old boy. Maybe would have been considered a horrible crime, except for the fact she used to be a hot NFL cheerleader. Apparently that makes it ok.

I've looked at comments under articles from a few different websites, and here's what some people think:

"Where was she when I was 12?"

"Read my mind! Even at 12 I would've been smart enough to keepmy mouth shut. Geeeze, you would think she tried to make him eat brussell sprouts!"

"this kid must be a homo .."

"This is not a big deal,there are much more serious matters to deal with in this world,I had sex with an older woman when I was 12,it was great,..this kid is a loser."

"Some kids have all the luck."

"Wut i take from this is the kid is gay, i know when i was 12 i would have helped her pull off my pants."

and so on...

read some news article posted before something similar with a young female teacher and male student, it was found out and when it went to court the teacher got off with a light sentence,

but i remember reading that the judge said something like "if it had been a male teacher and a female student i would be giving a harsher sentencing" which was crazy

sorry i dont have the link to it i will try and find it

Galwayguy35 · 30-03-2013 8:33pm

Hococop wrote: »

read some news article posted before something similar with a young female teacher and male student, it was found out and when it went to court the teacher got off with a light sentence,

but i remember reading that the judge said something like "if it had been a male teacher and a female student i would be giving a harsher sentencing" which was crazy

sorry i dont have the link to it i will try and find it

Not fully the same situation but I remember when the child abuse scandal was coming out we were discussing it at work one day.

One of the women said that if she had a daughter who was an abuse victim she would kill the abuser.

Someone mentioned to her that is would be just as bad if it happened to a boy to which she replied that she didn't think it would affect boys as much.

Cue stunned silence all around.

VinLieger · 02-04-2013 11:25am

Hococop wrote: »

i remember reading some article years ago before about an all male golf club, anyway women golfers felt this was sexist to keep it an all male golf club in modern society which is understandable, the golf club understood this and opened to both males and females, yet within a short time of the change made the female golfers complained that they were paying the same fees as male golfers and felt they should be entitled to cheaper fees

Ridiculous that they were up in arms about being let in especially considering the women only gyms that now scatter the country.
But that fees thing is a disgrace, its along the lines of feminists agencies calling for equality while at the same time lobbying for lighter sentencing for women

GalwayGuy2 · 16-04-2013 2:16pm

Schlesinger et al 1992

Zulu · 16-04-2013 2:29pm

No

Sorry, what? I don't understand your post. You are annoyed the author didn't chastise one of the speakers, is it?

GalwayGuy2 · 16-04-2013 2:40pm

Sorry, what? I don't understand your post. You are annoyed the author didn't chastise one of the speakers, is it?

Hmm, it is a bit incoherent. The case study was quoted and then the author explained the case study in relation to the topic, but didn't really comment on what was actually said.

In retrospect, there could be a million and one reasons why no comment was made, but I really did not expect to see a comment like Speaker 3's in a college textbook.

Galwayguy35 · 16-04-2013 3:12pm

That last quote from speaker 1 caught my attention, is she saying that men would look at a rape scene and we would all say that she was asking for it?

If so that shows a very low opinion of men, rape victims are mens mothers, sisters and daughters so I really don't know why she would think something like that.

iptba · 16-04-2013 3:16pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That last quote from speaker 1 caught my attention, is she saying that men would look at a rape scene and we would all say that she was asking for it?

If so that shows a very low opinion of men, rape victims are mens mothers, sisters and daughters so I really don't know why she would think something like that.

Yes, it was a misandrous quote. There's quite a lot of misandry around in society but it's not highlighted as much as misogyny.

GalwayGuy2 · 16-04-2013 6:07pm

That last quote from speaker 1 caught my attention, is she saying that men would look at a rape scene and we would all say that she was asking for it?

If so that shows a very low opinion of men, rape victims are mens mothers, sisters and daughters so I really don't know why she would think something like that.

I think it's actually worse, and the last speaker was actually saying that if men watched it, they may start thinking it was okay to rape someone. It's the last "the men around her enjoyed it" quote that gives me that impression.

EDIT: Hmm, for my own anonymity I've actually deleted the post, but I've left the study if anybody wants to look through it.

iptba · 16-04-2013 6:08pm

I've only just realised there are two GalwayGuys.

Bigtoe107 · 17-04-2013 4:38pm

Couple of weeks ago my friends and I were out having a few drinks we went to a nightclub and ended up getting quite separated anyway I saw my friend and beckoned for him to come over (no easy task on a packed dancefloor) in the process of doing this he walked across some girls while they were trying to take a picture, one of them shouted at him and when he didn't respond drew back and slapped him in the face to the laughs of all her mates.

There was a bouncer standing right behind her and he just shrugged his shoulders even though she nearly floored my friend. This girl looked quite well to do i.e. violence didn't seem a normal thing for her, yet it was clearly alright for her to basically assault my friend

kiffer · 17-04-2013 4:47pm

No

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

Couple of weeks ago my friends and I were out having a few drinks we went to a nightclub and ended up getting quite separated anyway I saw my friend and beckoned for him to come over (no easy task on a packed dancefloor) in the process of doing this he walked across some girls while they were trying to take a picture, one of them shouted at him and when he didn't respond drew back and slapped him in the face to the laughs of all her mates.

There was a bouncer standing right behind her and he just shrugged his shoulders even though she nearly floored my friend. This girl looked quite well to do i.e. violence didn't seem a normal thing for her, yet it was clearly alright for her to basically assault my friend

Um... by her action there violence does seem to be a normal thing for her...

Bigtoe107 · 17-04-2013 4:50pm

What I meant was she didn't look like a scumbag, I couldn't imagine her fighting after the pub every week yet she didn't equate hitting my friend as violence she saw it as getting him out of the way and getting a few laughs in the process; a bit of harmless fun for the girls.

jaffacakesyum · 17-04-2013 9:54pm

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

Couple of weeks ago my friends and I were out having a few drinks we went to a nightclub and ended up getting quite separated anyway I saw my friend and beckoned for him to come over (no easy task on a packed dancefloor) in the process of doing this he walked across some girls while they were trying to take a picture, one of them shouted at him and when he didn't respond drew back and slapped him in the face to the laughs of all her mates.

There was a bouncer standing right behind her and he just shrugged his shoulders even though she nearly floored my friend. This girl looked quite well to do i.e. violence didn't seem a normal thing for her, yet it was clearly alright for her to basically assault my friend

Jesus Christ, what a scumbag. And over a fúcking photo

Daveysil15 · 18-04-2013 7:44pm

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

Couple of weeks ago my friends and I were out having a few drinks we went to a nightclub and ended up getting quite separated anyway I saw my friend and beckoned for him to come over (no easy task on a packed dancefloor) in the process of doing this he walked across some girls while they were trying to take a picture, one of them shouted at him and when he didn't respond drew back and slapped him in the face to the laughs of all her mates.

There was a bouncer standing right behind her and he just shrugged his shoulders even though she nearly floored my friend. This girl looked quite well to do i.e. violence didn't seem a normal thing for her, yet it was clearly alright for her to basically assault my friend

If your friend slapped her then I'd bet the bouncer would've moved fairly quickly then. Clubs are shyte since they started integrating cameras into phones. That and facebook tagging.

Festy · 18-04-2013 10:47pm

Mate of mine was out one night in a nightclub a while back and he had 2 women come up and grope him,not at the same time but they were in a group,he made a complaint to the bouncer about it and the bouncer basically told him not to be soft you should be glad of some female attention.Like WTF ?

What pisses me off is if this was a bloke going around groping women he would be thrown out that club asap and branded a perv,yet if a woman does it everyone laughs and not a word is said to them.

Galwayguy35 · 19-04-2013 6:26am

Festy wrote: »

Mate of mine was out one night in a nightclub a while back and he had 2 women come up and grope him,not at the same time but they were in a group,he made a complaint to the bouncer about it and the bouncer basically told him not to be soft you should be glad of some female attention.Like WTF ?

What pisses me off is if this was a bloke going around groping women he would be thrown out that club asap and branded a perv,yet if a woman does it everyone laughs and not a word is said to them.

Something similar happened to me years ago and you are right it isn't taken seriously when it happens to a man.

Woodward · 19-04-2013 10:28pm

No

A friend of mine was kicked out for shouting at a girl who groped him in a club

iptba · 19-04-2013 10:47pm

A (female) psychology student friend in college told me a few of the female and feminist lecturers in the psychology department (a university in Ireland) were biased against men. She gave an example of a male and female student handing in the same paper and the male getting a II.2 while the female got a high II.1 a few years apart (if I recall correctly, they did this as some sort of experiment, but could have the details wrong - it was a long time ago).

This isn't great evidence and isn't directly to do with me or somebody I directly know but perhaps might remind somebody of something similar (or perhaps not).

Despite being interested in gender issues, I personally would be nervous of doing gender studies courses because I would be concerned my gender, along with my non-acceptance of some feminist views, would come against me getting high marks.

mcpaddington · 23-04-2013 12:23am

Haha I can recall 5 times I've had my ass grabbed in nightclubs in recent memory, I don't really care about it to be honest, if they stay and chat all the better but it can be annoying when they try to make a runner in high heels thinking they won't be spotted.

Nightclubs can be interesting places at times, I've been slapped, had an attempt at drink being thrown over me and once even had a woman full out being punching in the stomach multiple times over for the most trivial of things. I like to laugh right at them though, makes them angrier and thus funnier again.

fits · 23-04-2013 7:52am

Uhhh, you're reminding me that nightclubs are horrible places. Why would anyone pay into one of these to essentially be molested, drooled on, etc.... Yuck.

GalwayGuy2 · 19-06-2013 10:03am

Hmmm, not sure if this is sexist, but it's certainly odd.

I saw a card for father's day. At the front it said something along the lines of "I love you Dad. You're always pointing me in the right direction."

And on the inside it had a Victorian looking severe male figure pointing to the left saying "Go ask your Mother".

I don't have children, but I think I'd be a little taken aback if I got a card like that on Father's day

Any person with a child have an opinion on it?

wallycharlo · 19-06-2013 10:20am

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

...I don't have children, but I think I'd be a little taken aback if I got a card like that on Father's day

Any person with a child have an opinion on it?

Sounds like it's just a humorous card to be honest, and I'm pretty sure that it would not be purchased unless the buyer was sure that the father in question possesses the appropriate sense of humour.

GalwayGuy2 · 19-06-2013 1:32pm

Yeah, it was funny and humorous :P But I couldn't help thinking that cards that stereotype women as unable to fix a car are used as proof of inequality.

Maybe when I become a father my outlook will change a little. I just kind of imagined it being a bit liek saying "You're such a great father...for letting my mother raise me":P

The Corinthian · 19-06-2013 1:43pm

wallycharlo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that it would not be purchased unless the buyer was sure that the father in question possesses the appropriate sense of humour.

Or if the card was bought, on behalf of the child, by a mother who's not in a relationship with the father but likes to get a dig in whenever she can.

Delirium · 19-06-2013 4:33pm

When I was originally trying to rent the house I'm currently in, the landlady (who can't be more than 5 years older than me) asked who would clean the house when she found out it was a single guy that was going to be renting the house.:rolleyes:

Cyclepath · 20-06-2013 11:01am

When my kids came to live with me rather than their mother (due to alcohol issues...) I faced quite a few instances of sexism. The two main issues were:

1. It was a nightmare getting child benefit as they required proof that the mother was not claiming it despite my having full custody. Surely I am entitled to claim it and my ex-wife is committing a crime if fraudulently claiming? Apparently not.

2. The family courts start from the position that the children belong with their mother, no matter what. There is a much greater burden of proof when you're a father. Father's are not taken seriously as single parents and are looked on with suspicion. I was just fortunate that the kids were old enough to give their own testimony.

Anyone that has been in a similar situation will tell you the same. I witnessed enough cases while waiting in line for my turn at the family courts...

Ilik Urgee · 21-06-2013 9:52am

Cyclepath wrote: »

When my kids came to live with me rather than their mother (due to alcohol issues...) I faced quite a few instances of sexism. The two main issues were:

1. It was a nightmare getting child benefit as they required proof that the mother was not claiming it despite my having full custody. Surely I am entitled to claim it and my ex-wife is committing a crime if fraudulently claiming? Apparently not.

2. The family courts start from the position that the children belong with their mother, no matter what. There is a much greater burden of proof when you're a father. Father's are not taken seriously as single parents and are looked on with suspicion. I was just fortunate that the kids were old enough to give their own testimony.

Anyone that has been in a similar situation will tell you the same. I witnessed enough cases while waiting in line for my turn at the family courts...

Only reason my partner and I need to get married, solely for my having access to my own daughter should anything happen. If I were to pop off, no issues as regards the mother taking full custody of her...

How many times I've been blatantly ignored in the local creche by the same repetitive offenders when it comes to how she's doing and how she's progressing. Yesterday I collected C again and asked how her day had been only to be told fine fine. Reported back home when my OH got home and she could see how browned off I was and she agreed that the same lady would give her an indepth account of the day any time she met that lady.

Have to say there are some fantastic ladies there and have been very positive and encouraging towards me and my contributions.

What irks me the most? Those offenders are pushy 20-30 year olds who have the latest cars, tattoos, hairstyles. Modern in every way except for their attitude towards me.:mad::mad:

The Corinthian · 21-06-2013 10:15am

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Only reason my partner and I need to get married, solely for my having access to my own daughter should anything happen. If I were to pop off, no issues as regards the mother taking full custody of her...

You don't need to get married for that, you simply need to apply for guardianship - you get the form, both you and your partner fill and sign it and you go off to get it registered.

In reality, the sort of prejudices that you and Cyclepath have described will occur regardless of your marital status. Indeed, half the time crèche workers won't know if the parents are married and will often assume so - a common complaint of some single mothers, for example, is getting letters addressed to Mrs. [your_surname], simply because the child might have the father's surname.

So ultimately, it's not prejudice against the father because he's unmarried, but because he's a man.

Ilik Urgee · 21-06-2013 10:23am

The Corinthian wrote: »

You don't need to get married for that, you simply need to apply for guardianship - you get the form, both you and your partner fill and sign it and you go off to get it registered.

In reality, the sort of prejudices that you and Cyclepath have described will occur regardless of your marital status. Indeed, half the time crèche workers won't know if the parents are married and will often assume so - a common complaint of some single mothers, for example, is getting letters addressed to Mrs. [your_surname], simply because the child might have the father's surname.

So ultimately, it's not prejudice against the father because he's unmarried, but because he's a man.

Yeah my post read a bit like that but I meant as a man:o

Jeez thanks a million for that link. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know this and really relieved this option is there(which I will be taking). Brilliant news, you've just made my day!

Pawwed Rig · 21-06-2013 12:49pm

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Have to say there are some fantastic ladies there and have been very positive and encouraging towards me and my contributions.

Tell me this. Are men allowed work in a creche? I watched that documentry on RTE a couple of weeks ago and noticed it was all girls. I would think an essential part of a childs development would require a more rounded interaction with adults?

On the opposite end I often had cause to visit a nursing home where a relative was a resident for a number of years and because of the prevalence of female staff, there was very little laid on for the male residents. I would often ask if he had seen x rugby match or y hurling match but the girls working there would not have put it on for him. Probably not out of badness but may not have even been aware of the event taking place. Instead the main focus of TV was soaps.*

* Kind of off the point but just popped into my head

wallycharlo · 21-06-2013 1:08pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Tell me this. Are men allowed work in a creche?

Guess it's just one of those places where you encounter a natural imbalance, just as one could ask 'Are women allowed to be engineers' ...

The Corinthian · 21-06-2013 1:16pm

wallycharlo wrote: »

Guess it's just one of those places where you encounter a natural imbalance, just as one could ask 'Are women allowed to be engineers' ...

Not entirely 'natural' though.

To begin with, if a woman has an interest in engineering, people don't presume that she's some sort of sexual deviant. This 'moral panic' goes beyond occupation, and actually has resulted in a situation where many men feel they have to avoid children altogether for fear of being branded as such.

Additionally, we've had decades now of money being pumped into the educational system, encouraging girls to take up traditionally male subjects, such as maths and physics, that lead to such roles - to the point that now boys are falling behind in schools. There's been absolutely no reciprocal encouragement for men to go into traditionally female occupations.

ConFurioso · 21-06-2013 1:17pm

wallycharlo wrote: »

Guess it's just one of those places where you encounter a natural imbalance, just as one could ask 'Are women allowed to be engineers' ...

That reminds me of this documentary I watched once (Please ignore the crass and unnecessary title):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTOFXLl7eh4

wallycharlo · 21-06-2013 1:19pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

...if a woman has an interest in engineering, people don't presume that she's some sort of sexual deviant...

Point taken, I had not even considered that side of the argument. Very true.

The Corinthian · 21-06-2013 2:43pm

ConFurioso wrote: »

That reminds me of this documentary I watched once (Please ignore the crass and unnecessary title):

It's a very interesting documentary, but a bit off-topic here.

At the core of it is really the ongoing debate between nurture versus nature in science. Most nowadays have come to accept that both tend to be involved; a classic example being psychopathy or addiction, in that certain biological flags have been discovered that predisposed someone towards these conditions, but environment is still necessary to make them come to the fore.

Practically no respected scientist takes the extreme 'nature' side of the argument any more, however on the extreme 'nurture' or tabula rasa side, some still do. The impression I get, is that such positions are often ideologically rather than scientifically based - something that you'll tend to notice when you discover that such proponents often claim that 'nurture' is behind almost everything, except sexual orientation - then suddenly the opposite is true with equal conviction.

Interesting debate, but as I said, off-topic here.

ConFurioso · 21-06-2013 2:54pm

Yes, you're completely right, it is a bit off topic, I was just reminded when the subject of 'female engineers' came up. Personally, I can't seem to make my mind up over it (nature vs nurture), and wish I lived in a time when our genome was fully mapped. :pac:

ANYWAY! As you rightly said, off topic.

GalwayGuy2 · 21-06-2013 3:05pm

Just on Corinthian's pedophile comment.

It's kind of annoying that male actions are always viewed through "men rape women/are pedophiles". Hell, if a man glances at a woman he is "objectifying" her, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but obectification is used as an explanation for rape. Yes, there are many disrespectful people out there, and staring is crass, but it's a little bit sad that normal sexuality is compared to abnormal sexuality. It's kind of like if a 14 year old girl stares at an actor on television, and the parent tells them to stop objectifying them. Or even worse, is supporting a culture that promotes rape

Little bit of a rant, but just commenting how often normal, healthy sexuality is compared to abnormal sexuality.

I think we're making gains towards getting rid of victim blaming, but there aren't any movements towards getting rid of it's partner in crime. And that is the notion that men have to be thought not to rape. It's bizarre to see slogans in various marches that promote this thought. And, since in my opinion misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same coin, you can not get rid of victim blaming, if you're still promoting a view that says any man you meet could be a potential abuser.

Unfortunately, whether your promoting a victim blaming view or a view that all men are potential rapists, your still promoting a view that makes women feel afraid.

Just a bit sad for everybody to be honest

Sleepy · 21-06-2013 3:46pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Tell me this. Are men allowed work in a creche? I watched that documentry on RTE a couple of weeks ago and noticed it was all girls. I would think an essential part of a childs development would require a more rounded interaction with adults?

Even here in TGC, I'll probably get slated for this but anyway...

A family member has numerous qualifications related to early childhood development and childcare and worked in creches for a few years. Frankly, unless you happen to own the creche, the money is so poor (even at supervisory levels) that few who aren't in some way subsidised by a parent (e.g. still living at home) or partner could support themselves on it.

While some men are happy enough to work in low-paid positions, I've rarely met one prepared to do the level of certification expected for a position that pays so poorly (typically around minimum wage). No doubt it's a hangover from the "breadwinner" role of men but as a gender we tend towards expecting higher rewards for jobs that require qualification.

To be fair, few of the women I've known that worked in creches stayed past their late teens / early twenties, progressing into careers with more prospects and those that remained tended to do so as it suited their primary role of caregiver to their own children.

Rev Hellfire · 21-06-2013 3:58pm

Sleepy wrote: »

To be fair, few of the women I've known that worked in creches stayed past their late teens / early twenties, progressing into careers with more prospects and those that remained tended to do so as it suited their primary role of caregiver to their own children.

That last statement seems to imply that women also aren't prepared to "do the level of certification expected for a position that pays so poorly" since they are either using it as stepping stone to a better position (much like doing an apprenticeship) or using it to augment their the role of minding their own child.

I wonder though how successful a male applicant would be if looking for such a position; anyone know of males who are actively employed in such a role.

clairefontaine · 21-06-2013 4:03pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Even here in TGC, I'll probably get slated for this but anyway...

A family member has numerous qualifications related to early childhood development and childcare and worked in creches for a few years. Frankly, unless you happen to own the creche, the money is so poor (even at supervisory levels) that few who aren't in some way subsidised by a parent (e.g. still living at home) or partner could support themselves on it.

While some men are happy enough to work in low-paid positions, I've rarely met one prepared to do the level of certification expected for a position that pays so poorly (typically around minimum wage). No doubt it's a hangover from the "breadwinner" role of men but as a gender we tend towards expecting higher rewards for jobs that require qualification.

To be fair, few of the women I've known that worked in creches stayed past their late teens / early twenties, progressing into careers with more prospects and those that remained tended to do so as it suited their primary role of caregiver to their own children.

Also it's such a low status job they aren't going to push for men to be able to access, unlike physics and engineering, mentioned earlier. I can't think of any traditionally high status jobs dominated by women.

It's kind of like complaining why white people don't get special encouragement to work in New York City kitchens, dominated by Mexicans.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 21-06-2013 4:06pm

The wife of one of the guys I work with works in Childcare. It's exactly as you describe, particularly when you say the only way to make money in it is to own a creche.

As for men working in creches, it's a vicious cycle. Men are viewed with suspicious if they want to work with and interact with kids (as we said). Men then decide that there are too many barriers to working with kids and the risks are too great so they run a mile into another career.

I myself wouldn't mind doing some sort of coaching etc. with kids. It would be good for me as a person and good to gain some experience in dealing with kids in case I have my own some day. Realistically though I wouldn't. Lot less of a chance of ending up in a sh*tty legal situation by playing games, running, going to the pub in my spare time than working with kids in my spare time. All it takes is one false accusation and you're world can fall apart. Sad but true.

Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1