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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

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Comments



  • No
    P_1 wrote: »
    Ok I think not pushing a child on a swing if the child asks for a push while you're pushing your own child right beside them is a tad OTT.

    It's OT, but a while back I was in Dublin Airport and a girl of 4/5 was trying to take a bag off the luggage carousel. She was struggling, and could have hurt herself. But... no one from her family was around, and there was no way I was going near a little girl on my own. My mate didn't have such qualms, and helped her. Her dad was perfectly nice when he showed up twenty seconds later. Still, if I was in the same situation tomorrow, I wouldn't do anything.




  • You may think it's OTT but I think it's bad manners. Some parents really don't want you doing that. I'd tell them to wait for their mammy or daddy.
    It's not bad manners to push a child on a swing 2 feet away from you while your pushing your own kid. If the parent doesn't want anyone to do it then the parent shouldn't leave the kid on the swing alone.




  • maybe
    You may think it's OTT but I think it's bad manners. Some parents really don't want you doing that. I'd tell them to wait for their mammy or daddy.

    Fair point. I guess it's a judgement call depending on the situation and all that.

    Anyhoo we should probably get back to talking about sexism




  • It would be well over 10 years ago now back in my nightclubbing days I remember being in a club at the bar ordering a drink when I felt someone grab my crotch and squeeze quite hard.

    I turned around and there was about 3 girls laughing and the 1 who grabbed me said they were on a hen night and part of their "check list" was to go up behind some stranger (who happened to be me) and squeeze their testicles.

    I only laughed it off at the time and thought no more of it at the time but reading the sexism thread in TLL recently made me think back on it.

    I would imagine if the situation was reversed and a bunch of lads on a stag night grabbed a womans boobs or crotch then it would be taken a lot more seriously.




  • No
    It would be well over 10 years ago now back in my nightclubbing days I remember being in a club at the bar ordering a drink when I felt someone grab my crotch and squeeze quite hard.

    I turned around and there was about 3 girls laughing and the 1 who grabbed me said they were on a hen night and part of their "check list" was to go up behind some stranger (who happened to be me) and squeeze their testicles.

    I only laughed it off at the time and thought no more of it at the time but reading the sexism thread in TLL recently made me think back on it.

    I would imagine if the situation was reversed and a bunch of lads on a stag night grabbed a womans boobs or crotch then it would be taken a lot more seriously.

    Similar incidents have happened to me and my friends numerous times over the years. We generally just laugh it off and walk away. The reality I would imagine is that in these type of scenarios there are a large number of men who arent bothered by these type of incidents. Touch a woman though and all hell breaks loose. I'm not condoning either behaviour but I always found it interesting how the two sexes react differently to similar incidents. Maybe a woman reacts more strongly because she is or feels more vulnerable or society has conditioned her to be outraged at any slight on her chastity?


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  • Playboy wrote: »
    Similar incidents have happened to me and my friends numerous times over the years. We generally just laugh it off and walk away. The reality I would imagine is that in these type of scenarios there are a large number of men who arent bothered by these type of incidents. Touch a woman though and all hell breaks loose. I'm not condoning either behaviour but I always found it interesting how the two sexes react differently to similar incidents. Maybe a woman reacts more strongly because she is or feels more vulnerable or society has conditioned her to be outraged at any slight on her chastity?

    I don't know why both sexes aren't equally outraged. No one has the right to touch someone like that, regardless of gender.

    I don't agree that women have a particular advantage in this though. Most men I imagine (though open to correction here) can count the number of times on one hand this has happened to them. For a lot of women it's a weekly occurrance if they go out pubbing/clubbing every week. I don't think it's taken seriously when a woman complains either. If a guy grabs my bum I turn around and give out and him and all his mates including women and anyone else who's around just laugh it off. Nothing happens to the guy. No consequences whatsoever.

    I'd say if I asked my friends a lot of them wouldn't take it seriously either. I don't know why men and women seem to think this is acceptable behaviour.




  • No
    I don't know why both sexes aren't equally outraged. No one has the right to touch someone like that, regardless of gender.

    I don't agree that women have a particular advantage in this though. Most men I imagine (though open to correction here) can count the number of times on one hand this has happened to them. For a lot of women it's a weekly occurrance if they go out pubbing/clubbing every week. I don't think it's taken seriously when a woman complains either. If a guy grabs my bum I turn around and give out and him and all his mates including women and anyone else who's around just laugh it off. Nothing happens to the guy. No consequences whatsoever.

    I'd say if I asked my friends a lot of them wouldn't take it seriously either. I don't know why men and women seem to think this is acceptable behaviour.

    I agree no one has the right to touch anyone but if it happens to me I'm just not bothered. I dont know why.. maybe I should be? I think you are stretching things to claim that it happens to most women as a weekly occurence. Its a rare occurence for anyone in my social group both male and female. I have also seen a number of incidents involving bouncers, slaps, drinks over guys heads when a guy has done it... I have never seen a reaction in any way extreme when the situation is reversed.




  • For a lot of women it's a weekly occurrance if they go out pubbing/clubbing every week. I don't think it's taken seriously when a woman complains either. If a guy grabs my bum I turn around and give out and him and all his mates including women and anyone else who's around just laugh it off. Nothing happens to the guy. No consequences whatsoever.
    Actually, if you complain to the management, the guy would be thrown out very quickly as they would be terrified of a court case - the reverse would not happen. Additionally, you have the option of slapping the guy or throwing a drink in his face - again, the reverse would result in his being thrown out of the bar in question, if not arrested for assault.

    If you shrug it off, that's your choice, but that does not mean that the potential consequences are the same.

    The reason is that it is presumed that men 'love the attention' and women are doing them a 'favour' when molesting them. This used to be the attitude twoards women, but has largely been drummed out of what is considered socially acceptable.

    As women have become more aggressive sexually, you see this far more. It takes a brave man to reject a woman's (drunken) sexual advances nowadays as it can often result is physical assault, which of course will be ignored or laughed at if reported to the Gardai - after all, we're all asking fer it...




  • On a night out with my younger sister and her friends a few years ago for my sister's birthday, I met one of her friends for the first time. Had been told beforehand that she was a bit 'mad' (she still is). At some point this girl had a guy up against a wall/pillar in the pub we were in and started pulling at his boxers. I missed the start of the incident so have no idea what it was all about, possibly nothing but a notion in her head to do it. He was mortified, her friends were watching and so were his. She ripped the boxers off him in pieces from under his jeans and sure it was all a great laugh. I remember giving out to my sister and saying that this girl had basically assaulted that poor lad but her and her friends just laughed it off. If it was a man pulling the underwear off a woman in a pub, he would have been lynched IMO.




  • Actually, if you complain to the management, the guy would be thrown out very quickly as they would be terrified of a court case - the reverse would not happen. Additionally, you have the option of slapping the guy or throwing a drink in his face - again, the reverse would result in his being thrown out of the bar in question, if not arrested for assault.

    If you shrug it off, that's your choice, but that does not mean that the potential consequences are the same.

    The reason is that it is presumed that men 'love the attention' and women are doing them a 'favour' when molesting them. This used to be the attitude twoards women, but has largely been drummed out of what is considered socially acceptable.

    As women have become more aggressive sexually, you see this far more. It takes a brave man to reject a woman's (drunken) sexual advances nowadays as it can often result is physical assault, which of course will be ignored or laughed at if reported to the Gardai - after all, we're all asking fer it...

    I never brush it off I get very angry when it happens but you're right, if I choose to slap every man who has done that to me I'd get away with it. If a man did the same to a woman he'd be in big trouble. I agree with you there. Stupid double standards. The thought of slapping someone never crosses my mind, I just give out to them.

    And to the previous poster (forgot to quote you, sorry), it's not an exaggeration for me. It's a rare occurance if I go out and don't get my ass slapped or squeezed or my tits grabbed at. And nobody sees it as a big deal. Maybe I should start reporting to management. Anytime I go out with a group of girls there will be at least one incident of it so I'm not actually exaggerating. I know it sounds incredible but it's just such an everyday occurance now to people. And I'm not claiming the women who do get molested are of the same opinion of me. Some would be very angry, like me, others would be a little annoyed but not think twice of it and some just plain don't care or find it funny. So I'm not being over-dramatic in that way; I do realise not everyone takes it as seriously as me. I just think it's completely unacceptable.


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  • On the subject of men being grabbed - I helped with auditions in London a couple of years ago and in one of the group workshops one of the actresses asked for an actor to come up for someone to talk at. It was allowed and she spent her audition raging at him (Lady Macbeth's speech to Macbeth). But at one point in referring to his (Macbeths) manhood she grabbed his crotch.

    Now I know that may have been a way to play it, it could even have been a very viable way to play it. But it was the main reason we didn't ask her back as she hadn't cleared it with the actor.

    Now, everyone was pretty shocked about it - you know when you can feel that ripple in the room. But no one (Director included) asked her to stop her audition.




  • As women have become more aggressive sexually, you see this far more. It takes a brave man to reject a woman's (drunken) sexual advances nowadays as it can often result is physical assault, which of course will be ignored or laughed at if reported to the Gardai - after all, we're all asking fer it...

    I've been rejecting women's drunken sexual advances since I was 15 or so and I've never once had it result in a physical assault.

    It happens but the whole 'often happens' 'you'd want to be a brave man' stuff... c'mon man, massive agageration, no?




  • strobe wrote: »
    It happens but the whole 'often happens' 'you'd want to be a brave man' stuff... c'mon man, massive agageration, no?
    No it's not.

    My experience is that women don't take sexual rejection terribly well. Best case scenario, you'll just get persistence even after you've said no. Worst case you'll get verbal and/or physical abuse.

    Rejecting a partner/spouse/girlfriend is by far the most dangerous scenario.

    Perhaps you've been lucky or don't reject many women, but I've certainly experienced it a few times.




  • Two weekends ago, I spent a night in a hospital in a children's ward with my 5 year old daughter.

    I was sitting in a chair and as there was an empty bed next to my daughter's bed and I asked the female nurse could I lie on the bed. I was told that any spare beds were kept for mothers, so no, I could not use it. The bed remained empty for the night.

    My wife stayed with our daughter for the second night and my wife was given a bed automatically.




  • henryd65 wrote: »
    Two weekends ago, I spent a night in a hospital in a children's ward with my 5 year old daughter.

    I was sitting in a chair and as there was an empty bed next to my daughter's bed and I asked the female nurse could I lie on the bed. I was told that any spare beds were kept for mothers, so no, I could not use it. The bed remained empty for the night.

    My wife stayed with our daughter for the second night and my wife was given a bed automatically.

    That is absolutely disgraceful. What was the logic from the nurses point of view?




  • No
    At the bar in a busy pub, queueing for what seems like eternity along with the rest of the guys. Girl/s walks up, catches the eye of the barstaff (not always men) and get served their drinks in a few seconds.

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻




  • At the bar in a busy pub, queueing for what seems like eternity along with the rest of the guys. Girl/s walks up, catches the eye of the barstaff (not always men) and get served their drinks in a few seconds.
    While sexist, in fairness this works both ways, depending upon what situation you're in and who's serving.




  • No
    While sexist, in fairness this works both ways, depending upon what situation you're in and who's serving.

    I did point out that it happens when there are both male and female bar staff. Obviously my experience is not your experience though.




  • I did point out that it happens when there are both male and female bar staff.
    I see. Honestly, I've never seen this, but as you said our experiences may differ.




  • ElleEm wrote: »
    I think you only to ask any unmarried/ separated fathers have they experienced sexism and the answer will be a resounding "yes".

    Irish law is so discriminatory against fathers, in that if a child is born to unmarried parents, the mother is the automatic guardian. The father, (named on birth cert or not) is essentially a nobody unless the mother agrees to sign the gaurdianship papers (or he takes her to court). It is truly a disgrace, and scary how little is known about it. I actually don't think I have ever spoken to a unmarried father who has known about this (unless they are going through the process of getting joint guardianship).
    Not just unmarried fathers either. Someone very close to me is going through a separation with his wife at the moment and she is playing dirty with regards to allowing him access to the kids. He is on the birth cert, but the reality is that the mother holds all the cards when it comes to custody. Hopefully he’ll get sorted going the legal route, but the rate the justice system in this country works is laughable and meanwhile weeks and weeks are passing where he isn’t seeing his kids.
    henryd65 wrote: »
    Two weekends ago, I spent a night in a hospital in a children's ward with my 5 year old daughter.

    I was sitting in a chair and as there was an empty bed next to my daughter's bed and I asked the female nurse could I lie on the bed. I was told that any spare beds were kept for mothers, so no, I could not use it. The bed remained empty for the night.

    My wife stayed with our daughter for the second night and my wife was given a bed automatically.
    That is absolutely shocking! It’s like mother and baby changing rooms, or changing tables that are in the ladies toilets. Where are fathers supposed to change nappies? On their laps?

    Someone mentioned sexual harrassement in work, my husband in his last place of work was regularly being grabbed and groped and getting the most awful sexual innuendo hurled at him by a female member of staff. If the roles were reversed, he would have been fired. Simple as that.

    On a much less serious note, does it bother the men here when ads say things like ‘mum’s favourite multi vitamin for their kids’ or ‘mum’s prefer this kind of yoghurt’. As a woman, it drives me mad. It’s such sexism and really is such an outdated mode of advertising when you consider in modern families and especially since the recession, it’s very often the father doing the bulk of the child minding.


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  • ronjo wrote: »
    That is absolutely disgraceful. What was the logic from the nurses point of view?

    I don't really know re logic.

    I presume she assumes that mothers do all of the childcare and so are more deserving of the chance to rest.




  • No
    if I choose to slap every man who has done that to me I'd get away with it.

    That is because it is deemed acceptable for woman to escalate verbal offence to physical violence. It is perfectly acceptable for a women on tv to hit a man for something he said but you would never see it portrayed as ok for a man to hit a woman for something she said.




  • ncmc wrote: »
    That is absolutely shocking! It’s like mother and baby changing rooms, or changing tables that are in the ladies toilets. Where are fathers supposed to change nappies? On their laps?

    I've gone into ladies toilets to change my kids nappies. I've no qualms doing it and I've never had anybody complain about it.

    In fairness most places now have seperate places with the changing table (like disabled toilets or family toilets).




  • strobe wrote: »
    I've been rejecting women's drunken sexual advances since I was 15 or so and I've never once had it result in a physical assault.

    It happens but the whole 'often happens' 'you'd want to be a brave man' stuff... c'mon man, massive agageration, no?

    physical assault? well not an assault per say but I've had the whole finger jabbed in the chest accompanied by being called gay, frigid and my personal favourite, a dry shi*e when I turned down drunken advances.

    Also had a very belligerent SO? in response to me saying I was with someone followed by a dismissive "f**k you loser" as she walked off.

    So more verbal assaults than physical I suppose :)




  • Hmm, I have a few.

    One was when I was younger and this guy was slagging a women that he kissed to other guys. Yes, that is quite rude. But her friends, both male and female, then started to egg her on to punch him in the face. She didn't, but she was making moves towards him and, in all honesty, he looked very nervous. If it was a guy, I don't think he would have been half as nervous, as he would know what to do, ie hit back.

    Another was when I was insulting a women's writing, and she slapped me in front of everybody. Strangely I wasn't bothered by the violence, but the smile she threw the guys and girls, who laughed in shock or just plain laughed, was almost as though it was cute. I'm kind of proud I didn't feel anger if you want me to be honest, but I did think she would never dare to do that to a woman.

    This isn't me or anybody I know personally, but there's been a movement towards rather dark fantasy in the fantasy section (which I think is mirrored in the whole literary landscape), but it's kind of surprising how there's been a bit of a backlash. You have rather straw-man like theories, ie if you mention the abuse women suffer during war you're normalizing it (:confused:?)from internet bloggers, and in some interview George RR Martin is asked if he's pretty much a sick ****. Was there such a backlash against Robbin Hobb, or to blur genres, Kathryn Slaughter or Martina Cole?

    Tbf, I think a lot or less sexist, and more, you know, trying to sell their own book in a male dominate industry.




  • henryd65 wrote: »
    I don't really know re logic.

    I presume she assumes that mothers do all of the childcare and so are more deserving of the chance to rest.

    When you enter pediatric spaces in hospitals for overnights, you are often sharing with another child and another parent. Perhaps this is a way of not getting into the complexities of mixed gender sharing personal spaces?

    I don't know what you do about that. It's not fair that a dad can't sleep there either but I still don't know what you do about that. It could get very complicated when there is such limited space. I suppose the only way to fix it is if adults of different genders are willing to share a room and bathroom with each other and each other's kids. This of course gets tricky with adolescent and pre adolescent kids of different genders too in a hospital room. They are often only in a gown in the hospital bed.




  • Robin hobb doesn't obsess over rape and child rape like George rr Martin so I don't see the comparison. She dealt with it briefly, and other authors like Jordan, kerr, Elliott can write about it without the extremes of Martin or goodkind
    Not sure about it being a 'movement towards' dark - the Gor books are from the 60s. Just crops up now and then, I suppose




  • No
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Robin hobb doesn't obsess over rape and child rape like George rr Martin so I don't see the comparison. She dealt with it briefly, and other authors like Jordan, kerr, Elliott can write about it without the extremes of Martin or goodkind

    I think obsess is an OTT way to describe it. Fact is that in medieval socities rape was common place especially in times of war. Children grew up quicker, were married off or given away when quite young and were certainly not exempt from rape if a town or village was raided. George RR Martin's world of Westeros is very much based on a real medieval society rather than the more fantasy based Hobb. Granted I havent read a lot of Hobb as I thought she was very much fantasy by numbers.




  • I don't think it's ott, especially not when goodkind started going off the rails altogether and wrote about virginity vs rape all the time.


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  • i dont think you can throw martin in with goodkind, goodkind's just a sick ****


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