Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Hande hoche! · 01-08-2018 2:41pm

everlast75 wrote: »

17 now? I thought it was 14.

And btw, not for nothing, how is that tweet not proof of obstruction of justice. He is applying public pressure to have the investigation shut down?

From what I recall some investigators were added shortly before the last round of indictments. So didn't get the same coverage as it might have otherwise.

With regards obstruction of justice, will be curious as to the timing of the report on that and the mid-terms.

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 2:41pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Not happy at all about Trump adding one trillion to our deficit. He has sworn not to let it happen again. If he does I might be calling him a lousy president, also. In addition he is placating to the farm lobby and considering allowing ethanol in gasoline to go from 10% to 15%. If this happens it will cause harm to all our small engines... small cars, motorcycles, boats, tractors, lawn mowers, snowblowers, and all other small engines. And it drives up the price of corn and food made from corn. Bad, bad decision to increase the ethanol percentage in gas. Not everything Trump does I agree with.

well, that's okay then!

I mean - who would have thought that a multiple bankrupt would cause harm to the American economy

Stallingrad · 01-08-2018 2:43pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Not everything Trump does I agree with.

How enlightened of you and sorry to hear about the threat to your lawnmower.

robinph · 01-08-2018 2:45pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If you think back to Dubya Bush, the man could barely string three words together.
It seems that Republican voters like a man with the vocabulary of a six year old.

But nobody claimed it was really a cunning plan of acting the idiot in order to fool everyone that ... erm ... something. There is no reason for a president to behave deliberately like a clown in order to achieve some political master plan ... unless that is for the destruction of the system of governing the country. I seem to remember something about that being one of Bannons goals, but he's out, so even that plan isn't working.

The only plan that makes sense is that there is no plan.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 2:53pm

circadian wrote: »

So alongside giving children drugs in ICE centres one has died due to negligence.

This is an absolute disgrace and those responsible should be hauled in front of the human rights court immediately.

https://www.ibtimes.com/child-dead-ice-detention-center-due-negligent-care-immigration-lawyer-2704521

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

Leroy42 · 01-08-2018 2:58pm

Build the wall where? What plans have been come up with?

Are they going to compulsory buy back land? Will there be no go zones around the wall? Will it be on the border or within the US itself? Have they agreed with Mexico who will police the wall. How will repairs to broken parts on the Mexican side be undertaken unless it is on US soil?

18 months in and as with everything else with Trump there is nothing except his whinging and complaining and people claiming build the wall.

You really need to start to ask some questions of this man you have put such faith in, yet he continually fails you on so many issues.

robinph · 01-08-2018 3:00pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

Allowing children to die because their parents dared to try and find a better life for them is not how a civilised society behaves. To try an make excuses for that behaviour from a government is disgusting.

Dohnjoe · 01-08-2018 3:02pm

aloyisious wrote: »

One thing I've been wondering about in respect of the GOP is does it have a/any plan to put forward an alternative to Don Trump as it's nominee should he really foul up closer to election time? Would it take the chance of nominating Mike Pence for the job in preference to Don given the way he's treated the GOP as a political organisation? Has he taken away its control of its voter-base?

We've been mostly talking about the Dems getting their act together to put forward a credible nominee to take the presidency away from Don and the GOP.

Future nominees will definitely borrow his populist "style", yet another grim thing to look forward to.

dr.fuzzenstein · 01-08-2018 3:05pm

robinph wrote: »

Allowing children to die because their parents dared to try and find a better life for them is not how a civilised society behaves. To try an make excuses for that behaviour from a government is disgusting.

Or nothing but blatant trolling.
Only an utter scumbag would in any way defend the seperation of children from their families.
If someone feels I am talking to them, yes I do, I'm talking to you. Personally.

UsedToWait · 01-08-2018 3:08pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

If you don't mind me asking - I think you mentioned you're based in the USA.
Are you originally from Ireland, or why are you drawn to this board to push the Trump agenda?

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 3:11pm

Apparently there is much reaction to the tweet to shut down the investigation

https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1024654912385425409?s=19

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:11pm

robinph wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

Allowing children to die because their parents dared to try and find a better life for them is not how a civilised society behaves. To try an make excuses for that behaviour from a government is disgusting.

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

Igotadose · 01-08-2018 3:13pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

Umm, the policy wasn't in place till recently (and no longer is). So, you don't KNOW you'll be separated from your child. Prior to the brief period this policy was in place (Note: I could be wrong, for all I know it's still going on and the news hasn't gone on yet,) this was NOT the policy of the USG.

Someone's guilty of negligent manslaughter here. Easy conviction, find the person responsible. This is the US, after all, rule of law prevails.

Igotadose · 01-08-2018 3:15pm

notobtuse wrote: »

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

You don't understand selected outrage. This is easy - there's endless things to be outraged about with Trump. This is one of many. Nice whataboutery attempt though, you don't really know what the EU is doing in these areas.

robinph · 01-08-2018 3:16pm

notobtuse wrote: »

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

Don't change the topic onto some other nonsense.

Stick to trying to defend the indefensible and explain to us how it is acceptable for a state to allow for children in their care to die and then to blame it on the parents that the state forcibly separated from the children.

Stallingrad · 01-08-2018 3:19pm

I don’t want to get personal as there is no point. The issue with Trump supporters is the stuff they deem acceptable in a person, never mind a leader. The lying, the infidelity, the casual racism, the bombast and bluster, the willingness to inflame and divide within his own country, the misogyny, the bullying, the flip flopping, his narcissism, and on it goes. If you support Trump you are saying these qualities are acceptable, not only in a person, but in their leader.

These are not qualities one would instill in their children or accept in a friend, but for reasons I will never understand Trump supporters tolerate them in the figurehead of their country. The Presidency and America, once admired and respected, has been horribly damaged.

dr.fuzzenstein · 01-08-2018 3:19pm

notobtuse wrote: »

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

Well, if the US didn't destabilise the Middle East through illegal invasions, there wouldn't be any refugees.
The US should pay the EU several billion dollars as compensation for having to put up millions of refugees displaed by US aggression.
THEN we'll talk about the fcuking mess the US has caused in middle and sout America through their idiotic, agressive meddling over the decades.
You know if the US didn't sh*t on the rest of the world, there wouldn't BE as many refugees.
But all you guys know is to bust in there with your size 13s, trample everything and then fcuking whine why the world hates you.
OK, I'll edit the thick part, because it's against standards to say that.
But honestly, do you guys enjoy being regarded as religious, militant extremists, extremely ignorant, loud and violent?

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:24pm

UsedToWait wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

If you don't mind me asking - I think you mentioned you're based in the USA.
Are you originally from Ireland, or why are you drawn to this board to push the Trump agenda?

My mother was born and raised in Ireland. She was still an Irish citizen at the time I was born in the US and therefore according to Irish law I am afforded Irish citizenship. I also have family living in Galway and they participate here, though not in politics.

jooksavage · 01-08-2018 3:26pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

I'm still amazed that people think that rhetorical diarrhea like "the wall" actually has a chance of becoming reality or that it would be a solution to anything. If the Wall is such an obvious a perfect fix, why wasn't it built before now? Why haven't experts been publishing white papers on it for decades?

Malcolm Gladwell did a podcast recently about Leonard Chapman's time in the immigration service in the 1970s. He's the one that implemented what became today's "hard" border infrastructure. Before him, the "soft", porous border meant that 85% of Mexicans who went to the US returned home within 12 months. When the hard border was enforced, that "circular migration" stopped and instead of returning home in a few months, the migrants (overwhelmingly young men) stayed put down roots on the US side of the border, started families or arranged for their families to join them. While a certain proportion of these migrants had always stayed behind in the US, this exploded from the 70s on. Chapmans new, hard border was keeping Mexicans in the US as much as it kept them out. Most undocumented immigrants (two thirds) overstay their visas. The wall will just become another expensive, impotent monument. A fitting legacy for Trump really.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:50pm

Igotadose wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

Umm, the policy wasn't in place till recently (and no longer is). So, you don't KNOW you'll be separated from your child. Prior to the brief period this policy was in place (Note: I could be wrong, for all I know it's still going on and the news hasn't gone on yet,) this was NOT the policy of the USG.

Someone's guilty of negligent manslaughter here. Easy conviction, find the person responsible. This is the US, after all, rule of law prevails.

The policy of separating children from parents started with Obama.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:51pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

Well, if the US didn't destabilise the Middle East through illegal invasions, there wouldn't be any refugees.
The US should pay the EU several billion dollars as compensation for having to put up millions of refugees displaed by US aggression.
THEN we'll talk about the fcuking mess the US has caused in middle and sout America through their idiotic, agressive meddling over the decades.
You know if the US didn't sh*t on the rest of the world, there wouldn't BE as many refugees.
But all you guys know is to bust in there with your size 13s, trample everything and then fcuking whine why the world hates you.
OK, I'll edit the thick part, because it's against standards to say that.
But honestly, do you guys enjoy being regarded as religious, militant extremists, extremely ignorant, loud and violent?

The problem lies with the Arab Spring. Yes the US shares some blame for allowing the rise of the Arab Spring by being disengaged. But the EU was also disengaged as crisis after crisis emerged in the Middle East and Africa, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:54pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

Allowing children to die because their parents dared to try and find a better life for them is not how a civilised society behaves. To try an make excuses for that behaviour from a government is disgusting.

Or nothing but blatant trolling.
Only an utter scumbag would in any way defend the seperation of children from their families.
If someone feels I am talking to them, yes I do, I'm talking to you. Personally.

It seems you could be talking to me, Trump or even Obama, then.

jooksavage · 01-08-2018 3:54pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The policy of separating children from parents started with Obama.

"But Obama did it first" - this was addressed 6 weeks ago. It was horsesh** then, it's horsesh** now.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856

Igotadose · 01-08-2018 3:54pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The policy of separating children from parents started with Obama.

When the child was at risk (as per the former head of the DHS.) It was in place exactly for the reason you like - protect the child, prevent child trafficking.

Not when the parents were arrested for attempting to immigrate illegally. That's Trump's policy, not Obama's.

And, FWIW, Obama's not President anymore.

Manic Moran · 01-08-2018 3:55pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

See, this is what I have an issue with. Two supervisors have proposed a change in zoning to ban industrial sized kitchens in office buildings in future developments. San Francisco has not banned workplace cafeterias.

Sorry. This is correct, my error. It has, however, been enacted in Mountain View (Silicon Valley). As a result, Facebook's new HQ is prohibited from having a workplace cafeteria.

The idea is to force people to eat on the local economy, to help the restaurant businesses. The possibility that folks will eat packed lunched, or the fact that the cafeteria workers will not be employed, has yet to be debated in SF.

Corkblowin · 01-08-2018 3:56pm

Putting IMO or 'its my opinion' in your posts doesn't mean they aren't nonsense or lacking in any empathy. It just shows the type of person you are.

As for POTUS tweet, how can anybody claim in any future proceedings / impeachment / whatever that these are not prima facie evidence of attempted obstruction? What kind of argument could possibly be put forward for constantly attacking and disparaging a properly appointed investigation and its head in public?

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 3:57pm

robinph wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

I said if it happened it was sad. But parents shouldn’t be bringing children into the US illegally. Perhaps Ireland can take them all in. Wouldn't that be the civilized thing to do? And I scoff at the selected outrage of these things, used to make Trump look bad in any way, shape or form, IMO. Do you or anyone here do what is necessary to curb modern day slavery throughout the world? I doubt it. If ya’ll would you’d have to give up such things as chocolate, electronic devices including cell phones, cannabis, rubber, most clothing, palm oil, knock-off handbags, diamonds, shrimp and pornography. But we don't talk about those things or curb our lifestyle because it would hurt us personally, IMO.

Don't change the topic onto some other nonsense.

Stick to trying to defend the indefensible and explain to us how it is acceptable for a state to allow for children in their care to die and then to blame it on the parents that the state forcibly separated from the children.

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 3:58pm

notobtuse wrote: »

What is the story here? Somebody says a child died, but can't provide any proof?

If it did happen it's sad. But just another reason why you shouldn't drag your children across the boarder, when you know that they will be separated from you. If it did happen fire the person who was supposed to be watching this child and be done with it. Then BUILD THE WALL!

It's the parent's fault.

It's the worker looking after the kid's fault

notobtuse wrote: »

The policy of separating children from parents started with Obama.

It's Obama's fault

notobtuse wrote: »

The problem lies with the Arab Spring. Yes the US shares some blame for allowing the rise of the Arab Spring by being disengaged. But the EU was also disengaged as crisis after crisis emerged in the Middle East and Africa, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

It's everyone else's fault.

Jesus - whatever happened to accountability?

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 4:00pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

Do you accept that your earlier point about "Obama doing it" is false?

Let's get a straight answer and then we will deal with your false analogy above.

Stallingrad · 01-08-2018 4:02pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The problem lies with the Arab Spring. Yes the US shares some blame for allowing the rise of the Arab Spring by being disengaged. But the EU was also disengaged as crisis after crisis emerged in the Middle East and Africa, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

You can argue the genesis of the current migrant crisis, and certainly Europe has a lot of accountability here over the last few years.

However the current Middle East crisis can arguably be traced back to the US Ambassador who told Saddam that the US had no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, or his border disagreement with Kuwait. Saddam took that as a green light, invaded Kuwait, and we all know what happened next. Gulf War 1 and 2 and eventually the Arab Spring. American foreign policy at its finest screwed over the whole region.

mcmoustache · 01-08-2018 4:05pm

I'll leave this debate on the pros and cons of kidnapping and neglecting children to briefly address the "Collusion is not a Crime" nonsense that some people have been either fooled into believing or were simply lying about.

As we know, Paul Manafort, the Trump Campaign chairman who used to live in Trump Tower is currently on trial. Less than a year ago, one of the first challenges to Mueller's authority was, well, a challenge to his authority. In response, the Justice Department, issued a memorandum.

On page 3 of the document, it lays out the charges against Manafort. Manafort, for those of you with short memories was Trump's campaign manager and lived in Trump Tower. Most of the charges in the document are redacted but the very first one is not. It says:

Allegations that Paul Manafort:

Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government’s efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States in violation of United States law.

See that word in bold? It's "colluding".

So, why would the Justice Department allege that Paul Manafort committed crimes by colluding with Russian government officials if collusion wasn't illegal?

I'm starting to think that Trump and his supporters are very dishonest people.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 4:08pm

everlast75 wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

Do you accept that your earlier point about "Obama doing it" is false?

Let's get a straight answer and then we will deal with your false analogy above.

No I do not, but I was wrong earlier stating the separation of families started under Obama. The policy actually started under GW Bush and was continued by both Obama and Trump. All three separated families.

looksee · 01-08-2018 4:12pm

notobtuse, this forum is in Ireland, what you are seeing is a European perspective on the situation in the US. It has no actual effect on the situation, it is the equivalent of people in a bar or some other social situation, chatting. Europeans see life rather differently to the way a lot of Americans do, and this is what is being expressed.

You could say 'its none of your business' which is almost true (we do have an interest in the leader of a very large country influencing the rest of the world in a completely irresponsible and gombeenish way), and you could get the echo chamber you seek by interacting with other Americans who share your enthusiasm for the man.

The bottom line is, though, that the majority of Europeans and probably the rest of the world think the man is a dangerous, incompetent fool, and that the inconceivable number of Americans who approve of him are irremediably stupid. That is not an opinion you are going to be able to argue away.

Penn · 01-08-2018 4:15pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

Their children don't get thrown in a detention center, told they'll never see their parents again, have to deal with psychological abuse from the agents working there, and in some reported cases sexual abuse by other children detained with them.

Also, the adult who gets arrested doesn't also face inhumane torture and psychological abuses from the prison guards, or told they might never see their child again because the guards have basically lost the children.

But of course, you already know that and will ignore it because it doesn't fit your false equivalency and the narrative you're following.

jooksavage · 01-08-2018 4:17pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

Crossing the border illegally in the states is a misdemeanor offense. Would we lock up the person and their child for a misdemeanor-type offense here in Ireland? Do we separate asylum seekers from their children?

No.

robinph · 01-08-2018 4:29pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Let me ask you something. If someone is arrested in Ireland and sent to prison, and they happen to have children, do the children get separated from them?

Well for starters you don't get arrested and sent straight to prison, and also your child doesn't gets sent to another prison with no way of identifying them or who you or they are and that you are related. So no, that doesn't happen in other civilised countries.

If someone happened to go to trial for some serious offence that might result in a custodial sentence and they were the only known carer for a minor then there would be something else sorted out regarding their care before it got to that point. The child would not be locked up in another state and their paperwork lost though. The parent would also not be blamed if the child got ill or died whilst in the care of the state.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 4:30pm

looksee wrote: »

notobtuse, this forum is in Ireland, what you are seeing is a European perspective on the situation in the US. It has no actual effect on the situation, it is the equivalent of people in a bar or some other social situation, chatting. Europeans see life rather differently to the way a lot of Americans do, and this is what is being expressed.

You could say 'its none of your business' which is almost true (we do have an interest in the leader of a very large country influencing the rest of the world in a completely irresponsible and gombeenish way), and you could get the echo chamber you seek by interacting with other Americans who share your enthusiasm for the man.

The bottom line is, though, that the majority of Europeans and probably the rest of the world think the man is a dangerous, incompetent fool, and that the inconceivable number of Americans who approve of him are irremediably stupid. That is not an opinion you are going to be able to argue away.

I completely understand that and thank you for the comment. Discussion of Trump is ugly here by both parties, also. As the debate in this topic centers on Trump and US politics, isn’t it beneficial to get a perspective from someone in the US... and particularly a Trump supporter to round out the debate? A recent poll puts Trump’s approval rating here at 48% so I’d say I represent a large swath of the US opinion regarding Trump. I understand I probably will change zero attitudes here, but I think it is important posters see things and get a perspective they otherwise might not get on a regular basis?

Perhaps Boards can do a Now You’re Talking To A Trump Supporter. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? Good thing I'd be thousands of miles away with a ocean between us. :)

Edit: And I would ask you please don't issue infractions against anyone here who goes after me personally or disparages me, or might bend the rules on civility. Being a Trump supporter I understand and am used to the anger. People are passionate about Trump and anger sometimes boils over, which is okay in my book.

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 4:31pm

Maybe Trump should build that wall so I can go bang my head against it! That's what it feels like here sometimes.

Anyhoo, Trump is on quite the tweet storm. The last time he had one of those was last week when there was a false start on the Manafort trial. I for one am delighted he is going hell for leather on twitter today. In a small and petty way, I know he must really be fired up over the trial of a guy "he hardly knew"...

mcmoustache · 01-08-2018 4:35pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Anyhoo, Trump is on quite the tweet storm. The last time he had one of those was last week when there was a false start on the Manafort trial. I for one am delighted he is going hell for leather on twitter today. In a small and petty way, I know he must really be fired up over the trial of a guy "he hardly knew"...

Today's tweeting has been a bit more unhinged than usual and that's saying something.

Demanding that Jeff Sessions end the investigation is the first time that he has publicly done so. We know he tried to get Sessions to do this before and that Mueller has been investigating those events already but this is the first time that he did so in front of the world.

Stallingrad · 01-08-2018 4:36pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Perhaps Boards can do a Now You’re Talking To A Trump Supporter. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? Good thing I'd be thousands of miles away with a ocean between us.

I'm encouraged to see that despite you being up against it here that it has remained civil. As you are a Trump supporter, given that I don't know any, can you explain how you reconcile your support of him with the below (which are facts, not opinon)?

"The issue with Trump supporters is the stuff they deem acceptable in a person, never mind a leader. The lying, the infidelity, the casual racism, the bombast and bluster, the willingness to inflame and divide within his own country, the misogyny, the bullying, the flip flopping, his narcissism, and on it goes. If you support Trump you are saying these qualities are acceptable, not only in a person, but in their leader."

jooksavage · 01-08-2018 4:40pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Today's tweeting has been a bit more unhinged than usual and that's saying something.

Demanding that Jeff Sessions end the investigation is the first time that he has publicly done so. We know he tried to get Sessions to do this before and that Mueller has been investigating those events already but this is the first time that he did so in front of the world.

How is he getting any work done today? And why the hell is he still haranguing Sessions? Does he know what recuse means?!

Leroy42 · 01-08-2018 4:41pm

Why is he so against Manafort facing trial?

It makes no sense. They trial has nothing to do with Trump or his much talked about Russia thing. It centers around tax evasion and other crimes.

Is Trump, and therefore his supporters, really siding with a potential tax fraudster over the US of A?

As Trump is quick to tell everyone, he had almost nothing to do with Manafort, had only a very small job on the campaign (despite of course meeting with Russians to obtain illegally sourced information), but how do one reconcile Trump stance that Manafort had nothing whatsoever to do with any Russian collusion (because it doesn't exist) and his going out of his way to try to get the trial stopped?

MAGA by letting those that don't pay their taxes off?

looksee · 01-08-2018 4:41pm

notobtuse wrote: »

I completely understand that and thank you for the comment. Discussion of Trump is ugly here by both parties, also. As the debate in this topic centers on Trump and US politics, isn’t it beneficial to get a perspective from someone in the US... and particularly a Trump supporter to round out the debate? A recent poll puts Trump’s approval rating here at 48% so I’d say I represent a large swath of the US opinion regarding Trump. I understand I probably will change zero attitudes here, but I think it is important posters see things and get a perspective they otherwise might not get on a regular basis?

Perhaps Boards can do a Now You’re Talking To A Trump Supporter. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? Good thing I'd be thousands of miles away with a ocean between us. :)

But you are not really offering a perspective, just finding ways of supporting Trump regardless of what he does. We can judge him on what we see directly - not the 'false news' that he goes on about, not someone else's malicious interpretation - his own words and actions which he shares frequently and in detail. If you ignore all the commentary and opinions, and just base judgment on what he himself says, he is unhinged, lying, immature, petulant, and dangerous. There is no need for a perspective, its all clearly laid out for us by the man himself.

Why you support him is what the rest of us will never understand, maybe an ama would be a good idea.

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 4:41pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Today's tweeting has been a bit more unhinged than usual and that's saying something.

Demanding that Jeff Sessions end the investigation is the first time that he has publicly done so. We know he tried to get Sessions to do this before and that Mueller has been investigating those events already but this is the first time that he did so in front of the world.

Yep. Genuinely the walls must be closing in.

We have the change in strategy from "no collusion" to "collusion is not a crime".

Trump denied asking Comey to lay off Flynn in the investigation and then fired him, admitting to Russians the day after that he did so to take the pressure off, not to mention the interview in which he said he fired Comey because of Russia.

Now we have him calling on his AG publicly and for the first time (who has recused himself btw, so any request is idiotic) to shut down the investigation.

If the way anyone acts is an indication of their guilt, it is written all over his face.

everlast75 · 01-08-2018 4:45pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why is he so against Manafort facing trial?

It makes no sense. They trial has nothing to do with Trump or his much talked about Russia thing. It centers around tax evasion and other crimes.

Is Trump, and therefore his supporters, really siding with a potential tax fraudster over the US of A?

As Trump is quick to tell everyone, he had almost nothing to do with Manafort, had only a very small job on the campaign (despite of course meeting with Russians to obtain illegally sourced information), but how do one reconcile Trump stance that Manafort had nothing whatsoever to do with any Russian collusion (because it doesn't exist) and his going out of his way to try to get the trial stopped?

MAGA by letting those that don't pay their taxes off?

It is curious. Perhaps as this is the first Special Counsel trial he doesn't want it to succeed.

We already know that the name Trump cannot be uttered in that trial, so he can't be worried about that.

However, if the Trial leads to a point where the fact Manafort works for Trump for free becomes relevant, perhaps there is something there.

Of course, there is the possibility that Manafort may flip (depending on how the evidence goes). Now, you can only flip if you give up something of value. We do know Manafort was at that Trump Tower meeting. What if he could verify what Cohen is saying, that Trump knew about it?

jooksavage · 01-08-2018 4:45pm

Manaforts trial is going to go on a for a while. Trump will give himself a stroke if he's yipped up like this every day. With everything we've heard Mueller is looking into, it would seem quire possible (maybe even likely) that Kushner and Don Jr. will eventually be indicted too... Looking forward to that rant.

Penn · 01-08-2018 4:47pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

It makes no sense. They trial has nothing to do with Trump or his much talked about Russia thing. It centers around tax evasion and other crimes.

That's the point. Trump links Manafort's trial to Russia, but unless something in the trial actually comes out linking Trump to it, regardless of whether Manafort is found guilty or not, Trump will use it to go "See! There was no collusion by me!"

Of course, if he's found guilty and Trump doesn't look likely to pardon him, Manafort could probably give him up in order to strike a deal, so Trump is defending Manafort in his tweets to try and show him support so he at the very least won't turn on Trump during the trial. Then Trump can claim Manafort is only lying in order to get a deal after being found guilty.

And therein lies the two sides of Trump; actually quite clever and devious in how he frames things, but also, as subtle as a wrecking ball swatting a fly.

notobtuse · 01-08-2018 4:48pm

looksee wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

I completely understand that and thank you for the comment. Discussion of Trump is ugly here by both parties, also. As the debate in this topic centers on Trump and US politics, isn’t it beneficial to get a perspective from someone in the US... and particularly a Trump supporter to round out the debate? A recent poll puts Trump’s approval rating here at 48% so I’d say I represent a large swath of the US opinion regarding Trump. I understand I probably will change zero attitudes here, but I think it is important posters see things and get a perspective they otherwise might not get on a regular basis?

Perhaps Boards can do a Now You’re Talking To A Trump Supporter. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? Good thing I'd be thousands of miles away with a ocean between us. :)

But you are not really offering a perspective, just finding ways of supporting Trump regardless of what he does. We can judge him on what we see directly - not the 'false news' that he goes on about, not someone else's malicious interpretation - his own words and actions which he shares frequently and in detail. If you ignore all the commentary and opinions, and just base judgment on what he himself says, he is unhinged, lying, immature, petulant, and dangerous. There is no need for a perspective, its all clearly laid out for us by the man himself.

Why you support him is what the rest of us will never understand, maybe an ama would be a good idea.

I disagree with your statement. I read dozens of political news articles every day. From Right, Left and Center media sources. I provide source information when asked… and none of them come from Trump. If you notice I also post an occasional comment when I don’t agree with what Trump does. There is absolutely no need for me to post things that I dislike about Trump here, because there already is zillions of it from other posters. I post the things about Trump I agree with. Or is there some rule on boards that I am required to be unbiased in my opinion and comments? And I do provide other perspectives... It just seems the majority of people on the other side of the pond have closed minds when it comes to Trump.

Dog Man Star · 01-08-2018 4:51pm

Things are accelerating now with Robert Mueller's investigation.

If Nixon is an indication, we can expect some demented behaviour in the final months.

Trump is too spineless to actually act decisively, so will be mouthing off as much as possible on Twitter. He's scared ****less at this point. Just three press conferences in July, the walls are closing in fast.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time" is not enough now.

Dog Man Star · 01-08-2018 4:53pm

notobtuse wrote: »

I disagree with your statement. I read dozens of political news articles every day. From Right, Left and Center media sources. I provide source information when asked… and none of them come from Trump. If you notice I also post an occasional comment when I don’t agree with what Trump does. There is absolutely no need for me to post things that I dislike about Trump here, because there already is zillions of it from other posters. I post the things about Trump I agree with. Or is there some rule on boards that I am required to be unbiased in my opinion and comments? And I do provide other perspectives... It just seems the majority of people on the other side of the pond have closed minds when it comes to Trump.

Spare us this nonsense and go back to Reddit. This is a politics forum that expects individuals to express personal opinions on truth. Go back to Reddit.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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