Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

notobtuse

Captain Obvious wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

I’ve noted several times that my opinion on the matter to be a witch-hunt because I believe this Mueller investigation all stems from the FISA applications and subsequent spying by Obama's FBI that relied heavily on the salacious and unverified anti-Trump dossier paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC.

That wouldn't make it a witch hunt though. A witch hunt is a campaign to punish people who have done no wrong. Mueller's investigation is into Russian interference in the election. There's ample evidence, indictments and guilty pleas that there was Russian interference in the investigation. There's ample evidence that people close to Trump have done wrong. You're arguing that it is a witch hunt because it was started based on incorrect grounds but are you actually challenging the findings of the investigation so far?



And can you explain what the deep state actually is? You've named some people with limited influence. What exactly is the deep state supposed to be doing?

I believe, regarding the Trump/Russia collusion matter, we know the Deep State involved a few top level individuals within the FBI and the Department of Justice.  They used their power to try to tip a presidential campaign based on their personal politics and harm a duly elected president afterwards.  They are people who are dangerous to American liberty, IMO. These individuals apparently conducted a sham investigation of the Democratic candidate and misled federal judges in order to spy on associates of Trump.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

This is an opinion piece... but just about all our reporting here in the US seemingly are now opinion pieces (whether they admit it or not, IMO) with an agenda rather than journalistic reporting. It lays out some of what you are asking for.

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/373051-obama-holdovers-at-the-justice-department-still-run-the-show

Ok - So they are in positions of authority in the AG office and would be naturally sympathetic to the Democrat view of things , fair enough..

It's not their (or Obamas) fault that they are still in-situ. That's a failing of the Trump Administration and the Senate in not submitting replacements for them and getting them approved..

But irrespective of any of that , how are they "Undermining the 2016 election" ??

Captain Obvious

notobtuse wrote: »

This is an opinion piece... but just about all our reporting here in the US seemingly are now opinion pieces (whether they admit it or not, IMO) with an agenda rather than journalistic reporting. It lays out some of what you are asking for.

It would be convenient for Trump if that were the case. All those pesky facts get in the way.

notobtuse wrote: »

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/373051-obama-holdovers-at-the-justice-department-still-run-the-show

Can you explain what is stopping Trump appointing someone to the four positions mentioned?

Captain Obvious

notobtuse wrote: »

I believe, regarding the Trump/Russia collusion matter, we know the Deep State involved a few top level individuals within the FBI and the Department of Justice. They used their power to try to tip a presidential campaign based on their personal politics and harm a duly elected president afterwards. They are people who are dangerous to American liberty, IMO. These individuals apparently conducted a sham investigation of the Democratic candidate and misled federal judges in order to spy on associates of Trump.

Except it was Clinton that was harmed by an investigation.

notobtuse

Captain Obvious wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

This is an opinion piece... but just about all our reporting here in the US seemingly are now opinion pieces (whether they admit it or not, IMO) with an agenda rather than journalistic reporting. It lays out some of what you are asking for.

It would be convenient for Trump if that were the case. All those pesky facts get in the way.

notobtuse wrote: »

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/373051-obama-holdovers-at-the-justice-department-still-run-the-show

Can you explain what is stopping Trump appointing someone to the four positions mentioned?

No.  Trump should find a way to make them ineffective if they are permanent positions.  A failure on Trump's part.

Captain Obvious

notobtuse wrote: »

No. Trump should find a way to make them ineffective if they are permanent positions. A failure on Trump's part.

They are acting positions though aren't they? Can't he just appoint someone to the positions?

Christy42

notobtuse wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

What illegally obtained intel?  I'm still at a loss for this.

I believe there was a witch hunt out to get him by the Obama administration... which continues to this day. And why didn't THEN President Obama do more to stop Russia's campaign of active measures against the 2016 presidential campaign?  Shouldn't more of the blame of Russian interference be put on Obama rather than Trump?

So no opinion on  any of it then.

Jeez, if you even try to break out of your bubble and start to question at least some of it.

Instead we are back to conspiracies about Obama!  Obama should have to answer questions, IMO, but he didn't actively take part and didn't try to cover it up.

But I would wager that he took the view that without cast iron evidence he would be seen as trying to influence in favor of HC.  That we have all this info now and you still won't even question Trumps role in it proves Obama perfectly reasonable in that assumption.  Quin_Dub already posted the details of this. Another of your made up stories put to bed.

The most damning piece if that since Trump was told about this in November 2016, he has done nothing but lie about it and claim a witch hunt, when it is clear as day, whether it ended up being useful or not, that Trump was willing to use the Russians to influence his changes of winning the election.

Here’s something to consider.  If we are under the contention that it would have been illegal for Trump Jr to utilize any information that would have been illegally obtained by the Russians, then shouldn’t EVERY head of every media source here in the US be put in jail for printing and reporting on the hacked emails of Podesta and the DNC by the Russians? It seems to me many have a tendency to ignore possible improprieties by anyone who doesn’t have the last name of Trump.

Presuming they only reported on it and where not part of a particular campaign I can't see the issue.

The problem arises is that if campaigns start dealing directly with foreign governments for information on rivals, foreign governments might want specific policies implemented or their actions defended by the new government as payback for helping them. Here you now have the case where the government is now not acting in the best interest of the state.

CNN and Fox do not decide policy directly. They will not start trade wars or order them to be ended. Trump jnr. mentioned adoptions being mentioned in the meeting (directly linked to sanctions against Russia) so we can see that Russians wanted to buy a policy change in the US.

Finally Trump jnrs. crime that he needs to worry about immediately is lying under oath. As far as I know none of those publications testified under oath about the podesta e-mails?

2 Scoops

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Except it was Clinton that was harmed by an investigation.

Horrowitz said during the IG hearing that the FBI hid the Weiner laptop findings and kept them from congress, I believe for a month. They pushed it away and went full out on the Russia investigation. In his own words it was only when the NYPD started to put pressure on them it was brought to light. Many thought that angle was a conspiracy theory but it turned out to be true, so you cannot say well Comey wrote a letter that proves the FBI weren't protecting her, they initially tried to hide the findings.

mcmoustache

everlast75 wrote: »

Rudy just has his own version of "wouldn't" instead of "would".

Jesus, this is embarrassing

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1023975302765178881?s=19

I just got around to the post-cnn interviews. I'm a bit baffled because I refuse to believe that Giulani is this dumb.



I understand that when you go out there onto the media to lie, it can be a bit tricky. Generally, you'd work with a counter narrative and use that as an anchor to try and keep your lies consistent but this display looked like a guy who woke up with a hangover, got told the narrative and forgot it by the time he got to the studio.


I know that he has little credibility right now so we can't take his words that seriously, but it really looks like he just dropped Junior and Kushner in it. This new information about a pre-meeting about the Veselnetskaya seems to be all from him, unprompted.


And I still don't get why he shifted the talking points to "Collusion isn't a crime" this prematurely. He knows that Trump's base will believe the "No collusion" narrative for quite a while yet. They'll believe anything. I'm still convinced that something got him spooked.


The current Manafort stuff is unlikely to relate much to Trump so I doubt it's that. He mentioned that Rick Gates was in one of those pre-meetings - I say one or more because he was unclear about how many meetings there were. Again, why did even mention that? Another possibility is another round of indictments. Roger Stone is long overdue but I wouldn't expect that to be all that explosive given that it's something so predictable and can be planned for.



It's all really fúcking weird.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1024030741917851648

26000 Elephants

notobtuse wrote: »

I'm curious, what do you consider Hillary Clinton and the DNC paying for a salacious dossier, with information seemingly coming from Russian operatives, and fed to Obama’s FBI, unverified and used to get a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign?

Would the truth of the matter colour your view of the "salacious dossier" in any way?

The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative Web site that has received funding from the hedge-fund billionaire Paul Singer, has acknowledged hiring Fusion GPS to investigate candidates during the Republican Presidential primaries. This precipitated the Steele dossier.

Paul Singer? According to wiki:

Singer is active in Republican Party politics and collectively, Singer and others affiliated with Elliott Management are "the top source of contributions" to the National Republican Senatorial Committee

Quin_Dub

2 Scoops wrote: »

Horrowitz said during the IG hearing that the FBI hid the Weiner laptop findings and kept them from congress, I believe for a month. They pushed it away and went full out on the Russia investigation. In his own words it was only when the NYPD started to put pressure on them it was brought to light. Many thought that angle was a conspiracy theory but it turned out to be true, so you cannot say well Comey wrote a letter that proves the FBI weren't protecting her, they initially tried to hide the findings.

You mean this delay about Weiners Laptop??

The FBI ignored Anthony Weiner’s laptop. That may have cost Hillary Clinton the election.

The laptop was on a list of topics discussed by McCabe and other FBI officials on Oct. 3 and 4. And then … nothing happened. “After October 4, we found no evidence that anyone associated with the [Clinton] investigation, including the entire leadership team at FBI Headquarters, took any action on the Weiner laptop issue until the week of October 24,” says the report. Headquarters followed up only after being prompted on Oct. 21 by the New York office. Not until Oct. 27 did FBI officials brief FBI Director James Comey about the laptop.

By then, the bureau’s technical experts thought there was too little time before the election to go through the emails and determine whether any were incriminating. So Comey sent a letter to Congress disclosing what he could: that “the FBI has learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation.” Clinton sank in the polls. More than a week later, just two days before the election, the FBI announced that it had searched the emails enough to know that they wouldn’t change its decision not to recommend her prosecution. But the damage was done. She lost.

That three-week delay arguably cost Clinton the election. In interviews with the IG’s investigators, Comey says that if he had known about the laptop’s contents at the beginning of October, he might have kept his mouth shut and waited for FBI analysts to determine whether any of the emails were incriminating. But the report finds no evidence that the three-week delay was a conspiracy to hurt Clinton. It was a product of neglect.

jooksavage

So much for summits. Trump suspended August war games in Korea after his meeting with KJ-U (he idiotically described defensive maneuvers conducted with his own allies as "provocative"). The BBC reporting this morning that North Korea is building new ballistic missiles. That's not deal-making but it' the inevitable consequence of having someone so unfit for office that they think foreign policy hinges upon his own personal relationships. He wanted a photo-op, he got it and that's the material sum of the whole summit.

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

So much for summits. Trump suspended August war games in Korea after his meeting with KJ-U (he idiotically described defensive maneuvers conducted with his own allies as "provocative"). The BBC reporting this morning that North Korea is building new ballistic missiles. That's not deal-making but it' the inevitable consequence of having someone so unfit for office that they think foreign policy hinges upon his own personal relationships. He wanted a photo-op, he got it and that's the material sum of the whole summit.

his surrogates certainly must work hard in defending him on Foreign Policy

Trump - KJU is a little rocket man
Supporters - yes, a dictator!
Trump - KJU is an honourable man
Supporters - yes, he is misunderstood

Trump - Iran better not make any threats!
Supporters - Trump is such a strong leader in the face of a tyrant
Trump - I am open to talk to Rouhani with no pre-conditions
Supporters - Trump is right to talk to him.

I'd say they suffer from awful whiplash. Pity Trump is doing his best to destroy Obamacare..

Stallingrad

jooksavage wrote: »

So much for summits. Trump suspended August war games in Korea after his meeting with KJ-U (he idiotically described defensive maneuvers conducted with his own allies as "provocative"). The BBC reporting this morning that North Korea is building new ballistic missiles. That's not deal-making but it' the inevitable consequence of having someone so unfit for office that they think foreign policy hinges upon his own personal relationships. He wanted a photo-op, he got it and that's the material sum of the whole summit.

The bemused look on Kims face the whole time was hillarious, "The asshat fell for it" was all he was thinking. Now he wants a photo op with Rohani. He's a foreign policy genius.

Leroy42

Stallingrad wrote: »

The bemused look on Kims face the whole time was hillarious, "The asshat fell for it" was all he was thinking. Now he wants a photo op with Rohani. He's a foreign policy genius.

Its quite a climbdown.

US had a deal with Iran, which Trump tore up.

Now he is out publicly asking for Iran to request talks, with no preconditions.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its quite a climbdown.

US had a deal with Iran, which Trump tore up.

Now he is out publicly asking for Iran to request talks, with no preconditions.

Not a climb-down really , just further evidence that the primary goal of his Presidency is to destroy anything that has Obamas name on it.

Not because they were necessarily bad things , but because they are/were seen as successes for Obama.

He blew up the Iran deal that took multiple countries several years of bloody hard work to achieve and now he's looking to potentially replace it with some half-arsed deal that he and his team will cobble together over a few days/weeks all so he can claim it as "his".

Pathetic.

Penn

It's like he wants the Nobel Peace Prize, and he's willing to go to war to get it.

pixelburp

Trump ... doesn't react well to perceived slights and betrayal, especially anything that might make him look foolish; if that's true about North Korea I'd be a little worried about his reaction to all.

Leroy42

I see now That Pompeo has come out and contradicted POTUS claiming that any meeting would require Iran to

demonstrate a commitment to make fundamental changes in how they treat their own people, reduce their malign behaviour, can agree that it’s worthwhile to enter in a nuclear agreement that actually prevents proliferation, then the president said he’s prepared to sit down and have a conversation with him

.

So they can't even get that bit straight.

And I would argue it is a climbdown. Clearly Trump tore up the agreement on the basis that Iran would come running to him begging for the US to help them out. That hasn't happened. So Trump is left to agree that talking is really the best option. Within that acceptance, one can really only conclude that it would have been better to have maintained the current deal until such time as a new one was being worked on, as Trump was told by nearly all the world leaders and apparently his own administration.

Hurrache

The Iran thing is a curtain thrown up to hide the start of Manafort's trial today.

Leroy42

Hurrache wrote: »

The Iran thing is a curtain thrown up to hide the start of Manafort's trial today.

But they never work.

Despite all his tweets, all his statements, people have not forgotten about Mueller (mainly I think because he keeps tweeting about it). People haven't forgotten about Trump Tower meeting, about Flynn, about Stormy, McDougal.

All his tweets etc seem to do is actually take away from the good news stories. The NK feel good factor lasted what? a few days. The latest GDP figures, which are great, have been lost to Cohen, Manafort and Mueller.

jooksavage

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its quite a climbdown.

US had a deal with Iran, which Trump tore up.

Now he is out publicly asking for Iran to request talks, with no preconditions.

It's a pretty incredible state of affairs and speaks to the yawning chasm of misunderstanding when it comes to Trump and diplomacy. Like any cult leader he thinks the whole enterprise depends on his own charisma.


The irony is that, for all Trump's tough talk, if Rouhani could swallow his pride (and risk assassination) by plamassing him, he'd probably reciprocate and tell the world how much he looks forward to visiting Tehran.

Hurrache

Leroy42 wrote: »

The latest GDP figures, which are great, have been lost to Cohen, Manafort and Mueller.

On this, a lot of it is put down to companies buying and stockpiling before tariffs kick in, therefore skewing the figures slightly.

Harika

Hurrache wrote: »

On this, a lot of it is put down to companies buying and stockpiling before tariffs kick in, therefore skewing the figures slightly.

Also the tax breaks throw petrol on a burning fire. The deficit on the other hand is also rising far more huge than under Obama, wondering why this is not twittered out. Also https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-budget/u-s-government-posts-147-billion-deficit-in-may-idUSKBN1J82FN

The U.S. government had a $147 billion budget deficit in May, an increase of 66 percent from the same month last year as the ledger took a hit from declining revenue and higher spending, according to Treasury Department data released on Tuesday.

MAGA MAGA MAGA, the next democratic president will have to fix that mess again.

Leroy42

Hurrache wrote: »

On this, a lot of it is put down to companies buying and stockpiling before tariffs kick in, therefore skewing the figures slightly.

Yes, I see that. My point is that the numbers, buy themselves, our good numbers and in any normal politics they would be leading as the proof that policies are working etc.

But Trump cannot help himself. Even at his speech he had to have a dig at Obama. So the loss of coverage, though called out by Trump and his supporters, is actually completely down to himself.

Take yesterday for example. He comes out with the no preconditions stuff, and Pompeo almost immediately contradicts him. Of course that's a news story.

For a man that claims to totally get the news media, he is actually pretty lousy at getting the message out there.

Sure he gets a blast for a few days, but invariably he needs to create such a storm as to create many other problems.

So to take the view of the Manafort trial (it won't) he creates the view (or increases it) that he himself, and the admin are in turmoil with no clear policy.

Or to take the heat of the Cohen revelations he sends Giuliani out to dump Jared and Trump Jr into probable perjury charges.

amandstu

What will be Trump's reaction to learning that NKorea has broken its understandings with him (if that is an accurate description)?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45015343

Also he has been contradicted by Pompeo as regards his " no preconditions" talks with Iran.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45013683


Could this be a precursor to an internal palace coup in the USA if his major foreign policy forays go quite so disastrously wrong?

Quin_Dub

Harika wrote: »

Also the tax breaks throw petrol on a burning fire. The deficit on the other hand is also rising far more huge than under Obama, wondering why this is not twittered out. Also https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-budget/u-s-government-posts-147-billion-deficit-in-may-idUSKBN1J82FN


MAGA MAGA MAGA, the next democratic president will have to fix that mess again.

And.. Just in case the last Tax break for the mega-rich wasn't quite enough..

Trump Administration Mulls a Unilateral Tax Cut for the Rich

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is considering bypassing Congress to grant a $100 billion tax cut mainly to the wealthy, a legally tenuous maneuver that would cut capital gains taxation and fulfill a long-held ambition of many investors and conservatives.

Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, said in an interview on the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit meeting in Argentina this month that his department was studying whether it could use its regulatory powers to allow Americans to account for inflation in determining capital gains tax liabilities. The Treasury Department could change the definition of “cost” for calculating capital gains, allowing taxpayers to adjust the initial value of an asset, such as a home or a share of stock, for inflation when it sells.

Stallingrad

Harika wrote: »

The deficit on the other hand is also rising far more huge than under Obama, wondering why this is not twittered out.

Remember Trumps promise to eliminate the deficit in 8 years? Then adding 1 trillion on his first year? Where are the Dems in making noise about this, and pretty much everything else?

Midlife

Stallingrad wrote: »

Remember Trumps promise to eliminate the deficit in 8 years? Then adding 1 trillion on his first year? Where are the Dems in making noise about this, and pretty much everything else?

As the only other voting option, the Democrats simply need to voters to turn away from Trump's version of the Republician party.

However, if Trump has proven anything, it's that taking him on in national politics is not easy, and will frequently lead to defeat.

So the Democrats are doing exactly the safe thing at the moment - nothing.

Simply being 'not Trump' will possibly work out even better for them than simply being 'Not Hillary' did.

The alternative is to give him the 'enemy' he needs to make himself look good. Shorn of a current opponent at a national level he picks arguments around the world, which on the balance of things seems to be making him look clownish (though I have little impression of how these things are going down in the US), and continues his fight against HRC and Obama, which I imagine the middlegroup in America are viewing as pretty pointless.

They literally have nothing to gain by entering this carcrash now to point out what Trump is doing wrong. He's doing a fantastic job of that himself.

everlast75

He had just tweeted that Rush Limbaugh is a great guy?!?!


What's next, he promotes Alex Jones as a life coach?


Even a moderate Trump supporter must know that endorsing Limbaugh is manic stuff?