Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Itssoeasy

I'm sure it's been talked about but Rudy guilianis interview on CNN was a new level of dumb. I mean okay it's from the trump and Conway school of tv interviewing, which is to say as many words as possible in the shortest period of time without making much sense. You just include the usual buzzwords for the base here and there and away you go.

When your lawyer is answering questions with "I don't know" it's never really good I feel. I mean couldn't Rudy have answered with a flat out denial of the talking point ?

pixelburp

This new tactic of "well it's not a crime", aside from contradicting all the previous denials of anything ever occurring in the first place, does remind me of the Narcissists Prayer, which reads as below. Seems oddly apt for Donald J Trump and his general tactic thus far:

That didn't happen.
And if it did happen, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was that bad, that's not a big deal. (or in this case, is not a crime)
And if it is a big deal, that's not my fault.
And if it was my fault, I didn't mean it.
And if I did mean it…
You deserved it.

mcmoustache

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm sure it's been talked about but Rudy guilianis interview on CNN was a new level of dumb. I mean okay it's from the trump and Conway school of tv interviewing, which is to say as many words as possible in the shortest period of time without making much sense. You just include the usual buzzwords for the base here and there and away you go.

When your lawyer is answering questions with "I don't know" it's never really good I feel. I mean couldn't Rudy have answered with a flat out denial of the talking point ?

Have a look at the Fox interviews. He also mentioned additional meetings that weren't in the public domain as well as naming some of those in attendance including Rick Gates before he backtracked, if you could call it that. I refuse to believe that he is that dumb.

Stallingrad

Very true Midlife, well summarised.

Penn

mcmoustache wrote: »

Have a look at the Fox interviews. He also mentioned additional meetings that weren't in the public domain as well as naming some of those in attendance including Rick Gates before he backtracked, if you could call it that. I refuse to believe that he is that dumb.

Saw someone on Reddit pick up from one of his interviews last week that Rudy said Trump was never told about the meeting with the Russians, and that Cohen was lying about other people who could corroborate that because Rudy asked everyone who was in that meeting and they all said Trump wasn't there.

Which raises the question; if Trump wasn't there, how could Rudy know who else was also in that meeting to ask them? How could Rudy know which meeting Cohen was referring to, and who was in the room?

Rudy isn't dumb. I don't think he's said anything that could lead to trouble as ultimately, he has the ability to say he misspoke or wasn't aware of all the facts as he's Trump's lawyer, not Trump himself, and Rudy wasn't involved in any of the alleged meetings, wasn't his lawyer at the time of them etc. All Rudy is doing in these interviews is being Trump's mouthpiece and saying the phrases Trump wants to put out there himself but can't. But he is perhaps opening the door a little wider than he should be and saying some things he probably shouldn't.

Cheerful Spring

amandstu wrote: »

What will be Trump's reaction to learning that NKorea has broken its understandings with him (if that is an accurate description)?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45015343

Also he has been contradicted by Pompeo as regards his " no preconditions" talks with Iran.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45013683


Could this be a precursor to an internal palace coup in the USA if his major foreign policy forays go quite so disastrously wrong?

More nonsense from the deep state intelligence services. So they see vehicle activity at the site and think North Korea is building new missiles? Did ever cross their mind they could be dismantling stuff and taken it away on trucks? North Korea has just handed back war death to the US in the last couple of days. Deep state doesn't want peace to happen and they are trying to make Trump look bad. Trump asking to talk with Iran with no preconditions probably upsetting these lunatics too. I would have never thought last year Trump would be a voice of reason.

jobbridge4life

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump asking to talk with Iran with no preconditions probably upsetting these lunatics too. I would have never thought last year Trump would be a voice of reason.

What about last week when he was threatening to blow them up? Was he reasonable then or is it just yesterday?

dr.fuzzenstein

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

More nonsense from the deep state intelligence services. yadda yadda yadda.

Aaand I don't need to read any further than that.

Dohnjoe

everlast75 wrote: »

He had just tweeted that Rush Limbaugh is a great guy?!?!


What's next, he promotes Alex Jones as a life coach?

He has already endorsed Alex Jones

amandstu

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

More nonsense from the deep state intelligence services. So they see vehicle activity at the site and think North Korea is building new missiles? Did ever cross their mind they could be dismantling stuff and taken it away on trucks? North Korea has just handed back war death to the US in the last couple of days. Deep state doesn't want peace to happen and they are trying to make Trump look bad. Trump asking to talk with Iran with no preconditions probably upsetting these lunatics too. I would have never thought last year Trump would be a voice of reason.

What is the diff between "intelligence services" and "deep state intelligence services"?

Of course intelligence data is subject to interpretation...

Should interpretations be self censored in case they make the dear leader look bad ?

Cheerful Spring

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Aaand I don't need to read any further than that.

It nonsense because the Hawsong 15 ICBM can already reach the East Coast of the United States. North Korea doesn't need to build a new type of missile. It established the reentry vehicle they're working on is not there yet to survive the reentry to the target and they only need to get that right to be able to hit the United States. I don't buy for a second North Korea is building new missiles. If you read the intelligence report what they saw on Sat Photos was a vehicle carrying something on the back of a truck but they couldn't see what it was as it was covered. If they got from that the North Korea building a new missile I have a bridge to sell you!

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It nonsense because the Hawsong 15 can already reach the East Coast of the United States. North Korea doesn't need to build a new type of missile. It established the reentry vehicle they're working on is not there yet to survive the reentry to the target and they only need to get that right to be able to hit the United States. I don't buy for a second North Korea is building new missiles. If you read the intelligence report what they saw on Sat Photos was a vehicle carrying something on the back of a truck but they couldn't see what it was as it was covered. If they got from that the North Korea building a new missile I have a bridge to sell you!

So the intelligence service against a chap on the internet. How about a bet? If it gets clear that NK is building more missiles that can reach the US coast will you donate a 10er to a charity of your choice? I will do the same if there are no further rocket tests in the next two years.

StringerBell

pixelburp wrote: »

This new tactic of "well it's not a crime", aside from contradicting all the previous denials of anything ever occurring in the first place, does remind me of the Narcissists Prayer, which reads as below. Seems oddly apt for Donald J Trump and his general tactic thus far:

It's not even a new tactic. They rolled out the collusion is not a crime thing months ago before going back to the simple "No Collusion"

notobtuse

Calina wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

What I’m getting at is nobody should ever be expected to act on every bit of unsolicited advice from anybody who is not an authority on the matter.

Of course not.  But you are trying to claim that Trump Jr was right to meet with these people on the basis that they may, or may not have been Russia.

even though he was told they were, and set up a meeting on that basis.  If he didn't believe it then why not ask for some evidence?

Taking himself and at least Jared and Manafort away from the campaign to have a meeting with nobodies seem highly unusual for such an experienced businessman.  And know we know they had a strategy meeting prior to the meeting.  Do you not think anybody even asked if this was legit?  

At this still doesn't give any answer as to why Trump, after being informed by the FBI that Russia had been trying to influence the election, would not tell the FBI of this attempt.

In fact he didn't simply not tell them, he actively went out to try to paint the FBI as corrupt and the whole Russia thing as a conspiracy against him.  All this whilst he knew that they had been contacted directly.

So I ask you again.  What is your opinion of Trump Jr trying to get illegally obtained intel from a Russian Government source?
What is your opinion of Trump lying about what he knew about the meeting>
What is you opinion on Trump continuing to claim a witch hunt when he knew all along that Russia was trying something.
What is you opinion of Guiliani now telling us that Jared has lied to congress as their was a pre meeting?

What illegally obtained intel?  I'm still at a loss for this.

I believe there was a witch hunt out to get him by the Obama administration... which continues to this day. And why didn't THEN President Obama do more to stop Russia's campaign of active measures against the 2016 presidential campaign?  Shouldn't more of the blame of Russian interference be put on Obama rather than Trump?

On what grounds do you believe there was a witch hunt and where is your evidence for such?

Are you talking about the Mueller investigation?  If so it should never have started as it was begun based on a salacious and unverified FISA application, IMO (which I described earlier and provided what should be considered ample "evidence").  And it has been -- what… two years now and nothing to connect Trump with any Russian collusion.  If it continues then we can only demise, IMO, it is nothing more than a continued witch hunt.  All charges brought against Trump personnel are from matters long ago, I believe.  Manafort is now going to trial.  The judge in the matter seems to understand this is a witch hunt, also, as he exclaimed in a previous court hearing to the prosecution:  “You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud… You really care about getting information Mr. Manafort can give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump and lead to his prosecution or impeachment.”  "That's what you're really interested in.”

StringerBell

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What about last week when he was threatening to blow them up? Was he reasonable then or is it just yesterday?

Cognitive dissonance.

everlast75

notobtuse wrote: »

Are you talking about the Mueller investigation?  If so it should never have started as it was begun based on a salacious and unverified FISA application, IMO (which I described earlier and provided what should be considered ample "evidence").  And it has been -- what… two years now and nothing to connect Trump with any Russian collusion.  If it continues then we can only demise, IMO, it is nothing more than a continued witch hunt.  All charges brought against Trump personnel are from matters long ago, I believe.  Manafort is now going to trial.  The judge in the matter seems to understand this is a witch hunt, also, as he exclaimed in a previous court hearing to the prosecution:  “You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud… You really care about getting information Mr. Manafort can give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump and lead to his prosecution or impeachment.”  "That's what you're really interested in.”

I don't even know where to begin with what is wrong in the above statement.

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

So the intelligence service against a chap on the internet. How about a bet? If it gets clear that NK is building more missiles that can reach the US coast will you donate a 10er to a charity of your choice? I will do the same if there are no further rocket tests in the next two years.

Sure random people on the internet in 2002 said there was no WMD in Iraq and intelligence services claimed otherwise we know how that turned out. I remember commenting back then why UN inspector Blix getting kicked out of Iraq when he said the government there had no WMD, never made sense at the time either.

BabyCheeses

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Aaand I don't need to read any further than that.

I got half way thinking it was someone mocking what people will make up.

I'll give Trump one thing, he manages to get people who worship and would die for him. I have never liked a politician or another person enough to show such devotion. I would struggle to defend a family member to the same extent. What is it about him that make people so defensive.

Billy Mays

BabyCheeses wrote: »

I got half way thinking it was someone mocking what people will make up.

I'll give Trump one thing, he manages to get people who worship and would die for him. I have never liked a politician or another person enough to show such devotion. I would struggle to defend a family member to the same extent. What is it about him that make people so defensive.

Owning the libs

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sure random people on the internet in 2002 said there was no WMD in Iraq and intelligence services claimed otherwise we know how that turned out. I remember commenting back then why UN inspector Blix getting kicked out of Iraq when he said the government there had no WMD, never made sense at the time either.

The IS said there were none, the US were then searching for someone who would say something and ended with Curveball who told them about the WMD, even when the BND told them that he is not reliable it went forward.
So no bet?

Cheerful Spring

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What about last week when he was threatening to blow them up? Was he reasonable then or is it just yesterday?

Trump can be a hothead but least it willing to talk with Iran with no preconditions that's a big change. If Trump and Rouhani met they might hammer out a deal in the end. Iran can walk if they don't like what Trump asking of them.

Unlike some of you, I don't think it was a bad thing Trump talking to Kim in person. People forget only seven months ago ICBMs were flying over Japanese territory every few weeks and war was probable.

Since then what North Korea has done nothing. In Fact, they have not tested a missile in that time and have blown up two sites and started handing back Korean war dead to the United States. Nothing like this would have happened last year. What did Obama do for 8 years?

Stallingrad

BabyCheeses wrote: »

I got half way thinking it was someone mocking what people will make up.

I'll give Trump one thing, he manages to get people who worship and would die for him. I have never liked a politician or another person enough to show such devotion. I would struggle to defend a family member to the same extent. What is it about him that make people so defensive.

Racism. He has exposed the US for what it is, a deeply, deeply racist state. Those people will forgive him anything (infidelity, collusion, etc) as long as he puts dollars (or says he will) in their pockets, and promises to deal with immigrants (ie non whites).

Trump does not give a **** about the wall, but he knows the power of it as a symbol, so will fight for it to the end.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Do you believe the investigation should end ?

You appear to indicate that if you committed a crime "long ago" then all is forgiven.

notobtuse wrote: »

Are you talking about the Mueller investigation?  If so it should never have started as it was begun based on a salacious and unverified FISA application, IMO (which I described earlier and provided what should be considered ample "evidence").  And it has been -- what… two years now and nothing to connect Trump with any Russian collusion.  If it continues then we can only demise, IMO, it is nothing more than a continued witch hunt.  All charges brought against Trump personnel are from matters long ago, I believe.  Manafort is now going to trial.  The judge in the matter seems to understand this is a witch hunt, also, as he exclaimed in a previous court hearing to the prosecution:  “You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud… You really care about getting information Mr. Manafort can give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump and lead to his prosecution or impeachment.”  "That's what you're really interested in.”

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

The IS said there were none, the US were then searching for someone who would say something and ended with Curveball who told them about the WMD, even when the BND told them that he is not reliable it went forward.
So no bet?

I knew in 2002 and 2003 there was no WMD and I talked on different sites about it back then. You only had to listen to inspectors on the ground to know this they were impartial and no bias or agenda.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump can be a hothead but least it willing to talk with Iran with no preconditions that's a big change. If Trump and Rouhani met they might hammer out a deal in the end. Iran can walk if they don't like what Trump asking of them.

Unlike some of you, I don't think it was a bad thing Trump talking to Kim in person. People forget only seven months ago ICBMs were flying over Japanese territory every few weeks and war was probable.

Since then what North Korea has done nothing. In Fact, they have not tested a missile in that time and have blown up two sites and started handing back Korean war dead to the United States. Nothing like this would have happened last year. What did Obama do for 8 years?

North Korea was just doing what they always did when they want to negotiate, as seen several times in the last decades.
First escalate, then escalate further, then negotiate and commit to nothing. Do nothing and be celebrated as peace maker. Repeat some years later.
So NK got more than they wanted and did nothing. Not even the corpses have been handed over yet as promised by Trump and by his followers they were already handed over to the families.

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

North Korea was just doing what they always did when they want to negotiate, as seen several times in the last decades.
First escalate, then escalate further, then negotiate and commit to nothing. Do nothing and be celebrated as peace maker. Repeat some years later.
So NK got more than they wanted and did nothing. Not even the corpses have been handed over yet as promised by Trump and by his followers they were already handed over to the families.

Discussions are complex. North Korea has a right to be hesitant knowing the US doesn't respect agreements. Gaddafi made a nuclear deal and he got shafted and I expect that probably the main reason Kim not rushing. But to say Trump has not improved relations and helped it calm down is nonsense. North and South Korea relations have greatly improved and they working on various issues every day now. Whats wrong with having a North Korea that peaceful and doesn't threaten its neighbours? Whats the big rush to denuclearise we know they have the weapons already as long they are not hostile for me this is progress. The alternative is a war a nuclear war I don't see how that's going to be good for the world.

Midlife

notobtuse wrote: »

Are you talking about the Mueller investigation?  If so it should never have started as it was begun based on a salacious and unverified FISA application, IMO (which I described earlier and provided what should be considered ample "evidence").  And it has been -- what… two years now and nothing to connect Trump with any Russian collusion.  If it continues then we can only demise, IMO, it is nothing more than a continued witch hunt.

You seem to not understand the purpose of the special council. I suggest you look it up.

In the two years, the special council has achieved a lot with regards to the tasks it was charged with.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Similar progress and agreements were made during Clinton, Bush and Obamas' time in office. Yet, NK continues to build, test and research nuclear weapons. Each time a deal has been made, NK withdraws within a few years and takes another step closer to being a viable nuclear power.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Discussions are complex. North Korea has a right to be hesitant knowing the US doesn't respect agreements. Gaddafi made a nuclear deal and he got shafted and I expect that probably the main reason Kim not rushing. But to say Trump has not improved relations and helped it calm down is nonsense. North and South Korea relations have greatly improved and they working on various issues every day now. Whats wrong with having a North Korea that peaceful and doesn't threaten its neighbours? Whats the big rush to denuclearise we know they have the weapons already as long they are not hostile for me this is progress. The alternative is a war a nuclear war I don't see how that's going to be good for the world.

Quin_Dub

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Trump can be a hothead but least it willing to talk with Iran with no preconditions that's a big change. If Trump and Rouhani met they might hammer out a deal in the end. Iran can walk if they don't like what Trump asking of them.

You mean like the deal that was already there that Trump unilaterally tore up just because it was associated with Obama??

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Unlike some of you, I don't think it was a bad thing Trump talking to Kim in person. People forget only seven months ago ICBMs were flying over Japanese territory every few weeks and war was probable.

Since then what North Korea has done nothing. In Fact, they have not tested a missile in that time and have blown up two sites and started handing back Korean war dead to the United States. Nothing like this would have happened last year. What did Obama do for 8 years?

It was Bush that cancelled the efforts with Korea to return remains in 2005 - In the previous 15 years they had recovered over 600 bodies. Although NK were taking the pi$$ at times by including dog bones among the remains..

Christy42

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What about last week when he was threatening to blow them up? Was he reasonable then or is it just yesterday?

Trump can be a hothead but least it willing to talk with Iran with no preconditions that's a big change. If Trump and Rouhani met they might hammer out a deal in the end. Iran can walk if they don't like what Trump asking of them.

Unlike some of you, I don't think it was a bad thing Trump talking to Kim in person. People forget only seven months ago ICBMs were flying over Japanese territory every few weeks and war was probable.

Since then what North Korea has done nothing. In Fact, they have not tested a missile in that time and have blown up two sites and started handing back Korean war dead to the United States. Nothing like this would have happened last year. What did Obama do for 8 years?

Well for one Obama did sit done with Iran and got a great which was ripped up for the hell of it.

War was only probable because Trump kept shouting about fire and fury. No one expected Kim to attack anywhere (suicide for him). No one expected South Korea to invade and no one expected Japan to invade. No one would have expected Obama to invade either. It was different because no one trusted the sanity of the US president. He does not get credit for what was a default for any other world leader in this scenario.

And I thought Iran were breaking their conditions of the previous deal? What happened to that? Where was the evidence of all that? What was the justification for going back to square one?

Sorry mate this is too much of an uphill battle to argue for Trump this week.