Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

BabyCheeses

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Probably something very big about to break. Trump's distraction game at full speed.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1023557246628900864

Why would he be getting rid of the visa lottery? I was told Trump and his supporters are only against illegal immigrants.

StringerBell

Off again with his Twitter threats I see. It's good for the Dems he is the one who always mentions a shutdown m gives them cover for if a d when it happens.

Then we see Donnie sign a bill he greatly disagrees with and will definitely not sign another like it again...

EltonJohn69

It’s been a very quiet weekend in trump world.... I expected something to kick off with the Cohen action during the week

StringerBell

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

It’s been a very quiet weekend in trump world.... I expected something to kick off with the Cohen action during the week

Nah, that's more salacious than anything. We know his supporters don't care that he lies. Without a crime which we don't have, it doesn't amount to much. More to come on that one but I wouldn't get too excited

Manaforts trial starts Tuesday and the spending bill is on the horizon. Expect more Trump behavior over the week. He is devolving a little is my reading, I think the stress is beginning to have an affect on him. He has been unable to control the narrative completely for the first time so I would expect more extreme behaviour, language and moves as he continues his descent.

Dog Man Star

I've been watching Bannon on Fox, quite rightly declaring that these mid-terms are the critical point for Trump's presidency.

It struck me that Bannon is now a pure evil man. He's not stupid like Trump, Pence. He's not naive like Hannity, Miller. He knows exactly what he is doing and what he is doing is pure evil. Bannon is the true Nazi of this circus.

His failure as a film producer seems to have created a bitterness in him that manifests now as a hatred of anyone of a liberal persuasion.It wasn't always so, apparently he was quite liberal in the early days, before his film career fell apart. I listened to a podcast with some of his old friends and they all noted a particular point when he turned. It was when his film Titus (1999) was roundly panned, he railed against Hollywood and his peers and his producer career died. He had worked with Viggo Mortensen, Sean Penn, Anthony Hopkins and Jessica Lange at this point.

I wonder did he have some kind of breakdown which led to his next film being a documentary about Reagan he wrote himself, which is a bizarre film, almost unwatchable.

Either way, he is the most dangerous man in this administration.

26000 Elephants

Dog Man Star wrote: »

It struck me that Bannon is now a pure evil man. He's not stupid like Trump, Pence. He's not naive like Hannity, Miller. He knows exactly what he is doing and what he is doing is pure evil. Bannon is the true Nazi of this circus.

And when that kind of personality finds a kindred spirit in the shape of multi billionaire Mercer, they can get anyone elected. They can literally stand the world on its head. Its frightening.

But for all that, even he couldn't hang on tight enough to stay in the centre of that crazy spinning circus!

StringerBell

Hannity, Miller naive?

Can't buy into that at all. Both know exactly what they are doing, Miller is a true believer and a disciple of Bannon.

Steve is a clever guy, pence obviously has something about him too in how he uses religion to maintain his very comfortable lifestyle. No way you could call Hannity naive, he is a repugnant character and has never been anything else. Smart, well aware of what he is doing and why he does it.

NY times have a good podcast episode exploring the life of Steve Bannon from childhood to the man you see today, it's a good listen and I am comfortable that he has always been the guy you see today. A product of his environment as much as anything else, but again his ultimate goal is for fame and notoriety himself and to be thought of as a revolutionary, a visionary etc

Dog Man Star

26000 Elephants wrote: »

And when that kind of personality finds a kindred spirit in the shape of multi billionaire Mercer, they can get anyone elected. They can literally stand the world on its head. Its frightening.

But for all that, even he couldn't hang on tight enough to stay in the centre of that crazy spinning circus!

Please don't kid yourself to think he is not still centre-stage in that circus. Trump's firing of him propelled him to take an "unbiased" role in the media. He is very much involved, more so now than ever. He speaks his own truth, he is passionate and he is driven. He is also respected by the likes of BBC and Channel 4 because he is charismatic, articulate and intelligent.

Should Trump be impeached, Bannon could easily be elected in 2020, by a landslide.

He is the most dangerous.

Dog Man Star

StringerBell wrote: »

Hannity, Miller naive?

Can't buy into that at all. Both know exactly what they are doing, Miller is a true believer and a disciple of Bannon.

Steve is a clever guy, pence obviously has something about him too in how he uses religion to maintain his very comfortable lifestyle. No way you could call Hannity naive, he is a repugnant character and has never been anything else. Smart, well aware of what he is doing and why he does it.

NY times have a good podcast episode exploring the life of Steve Bannon from childhood to the man you see today, it's a good listen and I am comfortable that he has always been the guy you see today. A product of his environment as much as anything else, but again his ultimate goal is for fame and notoriety himself and to be thought of as a revolutionary, a visionary etc

Miller and Hannity are not smart. They broadcast exclusively on Fox News and nowhere else. Bannon is on BBC.

They are naive because outside of Trump's base, they are not taken seriously at all. Bannon is.


It's not beyond the realms of credulity that when the Trump circus is put to bed, the new credible leader Bannon is elected. All the same qualities of Trump, with passion, intelligence and vision in spades.

However, it's not all bad. Bannon has no interest in Russia or anywhere else, does not crave attention nor adulation. He is far right-wing and will eventually be voted out. Rather Bannon than Trump.

StringerBell

Dog Man Star wrote: »

Miller and Hannity are not smart. They broadcast exclusively on Fox News and nowhere else. Bannon is on BBC.

They are naive because outside of Trump's base, they are not taken seriously at all. Bannon is.


It's not beyond the realms of credulity that when the Trump circus is put to bed, the new credible leader Bannon is elected. All the same qualities of Trump, with passion, intelligence and vision in spades.

However, it's not all bad. Bannon has no interest in Russia or anywhere else, does not crave attention nor adulation. He is far right-wing and will eventually be voted out. Rather Bannon than Trump.

We have pretty different definitions of the word naive.

Also smart, I think you certainly underestimate Sean Hannitys intelligence and I feel dirty typing that.

Bannon is not respected in any meaningful way outside of his tent, I think you may mistake his availability for respect, he likes to talk, he always makes sure he has his enemy the MSM invited along to events and gives interviews. He craves the limelight, quite contrary to your idea he does not seek adulation and trades on a reputation not entirely earned, other he believes what he says imo.

Dog Man Star

StringerBell wrote: »

We have pretty different definitions of the word naive.

Also smart, I think you certainly underestimate Sean Hannitys intelligence and I feel dirty typing that.

Bannon is not respected in any meaningful way outside of his tent, I think you may mistake his availability for respect, he likes to talk, he always makes sure he has his enemy the MSM invited along to events and gives interviews. He craves the limelight, quite contrary to your idea he does not seek adulation and trades on a reputation not entirely earned, other he believes what he says imo.

With respect, I think you are wrong. Bannon is respected as a visionary that Trump rejected as maybe too far right, but he has been interviewed by many proper news channels such as BBC, RTE and Channel 4 and that is in the UK and Ireland alone. And in those interviews, he has not been considered a loon nor warped, merely "far-right". Eamon Dunphy regularly expresses an affection for Bannon.

Bannon is on a mission. He knows Trump is a clown, his family are despicable and he has said so publicly. He contributed massively to the Fire & Fury book. But! should his opportunity arise, he will dive straight in to replace Trump in the heart of Trump's base and would be elected in a landslide.

Of that I am sure, and that is a real concern, because Bannon has none of Trump's baggage. They will see him as local boy done good, a grizzly fighter, they can get right behind a man like Bannon. And if Trump is impeached or resigns, Bannon is the next up, not Pence.

26000 Elephants

Dog Man Star wrote: »

With respect, I think you are wrong. Bannon is respected as a visionary that Trump rejected as maybe too far right, but he has been interviewed by many proper news channels such as BBC, RTE and Channel 4 and that is in the UK and Ireland alone. And in those interviews, he has not been considered a loon nor warped, merely "far-right". Eamon Dunphy regularly expresses an affection for Bannon.

Bannon is on a mission. He knows Trump is a clown, his family are despicable and he has said so publicly. He contributed massively to the Fire & Fury book. But! should his opportunity arise, he will dive straight in to replace Trump in the heart of Trump's base and would be elected in a landslide.

Of that I am sure, and that is a real concern, because Bannon has none of Trump's baggage. They will see him as local boy done good, a grizzly fighter, they can get right behind a man like Bannon. And if Trump is impeached or resigns, Bannon is the next up, not Pence.

I'd strongly disagree that anyone outside his own circles see him anywhere near being a "visionary". Also, while Bannon is smart enough to run things, he has nowhere near the personality traits to be able to carry people with him that Trump has. He's a string puller, not a front-of-house guy.
(thank god )

Dog Man Star

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I'd strongly disagree that anyone outside his own circles see him anywhere near being a "visionary". Also, while Bannon is smart enough to run things, he has nowhere near the personality traits to be able to carry people with him that Trump has. He's a string puller, not a front-of-house guy.
(thank god )

I wish I had your optimism. If push comes to shove and Trump resigns, I fully expect Steve Bannon to emerge as Trump's successor.

If this happens within the next 18 months, I expect Bannon to win the 2020 elections by a landslide.


^^^^^^^^^^^
Mark these words

Dog Man Star

26000 Elephants wrote: »

I'd strongly disagree that anyone outside his own circles see him anywhere near being a "visionary". Also, while Bannon is smart enough to run things, he has nowhere near the personality traits to be able to carry people with him that Trump has. He's a string puller, not a front-of-house guy.
(thank god )

You must not have seen him recently? Bannon is on a Che Guevara bent on every MSM channel. He is growing his presence by the day. He is no joke anymore.

20Cent

Not so sure about Bannon he's pretty open about his racism. Also not being funny but he is physically unatractive as in butt ugly.

Carry

Dog Man Star wrote: »

You must not have seen him recently? Bannon is on a Che Guevara bent on every MSM channel. He is growing his presence by the day. He is no joke anymore.

Please don't abuse the name of Che Guevara. Thank you.

Bannon is not being taken seriously, as you claim, by the media, but only in "his own tent" as StringerBell called it.
He is on tour in Europe to promote his right-wing policy and to support the right-wing movements right here, probably with a vision to take over the world (where is James Bond when you need him?). But even the right-wing Austrian government rejected him because he is just ... a bloody foreigner? (The irony!) Just not endearing enough for the local public image? (Yes, he is ugly, but so is Trump.) Because they consider him as some Yank who tries to tell the European locals what to do and to think? Which they don't like one bit, even and especially the right-wingers.

The mainstream media in Europe looks at him with disgusted fascination but reject him as some aberration. Of course they take him on for an interview like apparantly the BBC. It's a journalistic kind of coup, but doesn't mean they respect him or his views. They probably hope to get some dirt about Trump out of him.

Besides, he won't have a chance running for president at any stage. He doesn't have the people factor, he's not an orator that intrigues the masses.
He is just a has-been with a hunger for recognition he'll never get.

Gbear

Carry wrote: »

he's not an orator that intrigues the masses.

It's not Trump's oratory skills that has people intrigued. He's an incoherent rambler who says nothing in a confusing, Grandpa-Simpsonesque series of lurches from one topic he's ignorant about to another.

What he has, and something that intrigues the angry, the disenfranchised and socipaths alike, is that he's utterly unapolgetic and incapable of feeling shame. He has no conscience or sense of empathy, and for people who just want to take a **** on everything, that's something they can get behind.

eire4

Gbear wrote: »

It's not Trump's oratory skills that has people intrigued. He's an incoherent rambler who says nothing in a confusing, Grandpa-Simpsonesque series of lurches from one topic he's ignorant about to another.

What he has, and something that intrigues the angry, the disenfranchised and socipaths alike, is that he's utterly unapolgetic and incapable of feeling shame. He has no conscience or sense of empathy, and for people who just want to take a **** on everything, that's something they can get behind.

To expand on that he is also a big time narcissist and I think his obvious and open racism has a big attraction for many of his supporters as well as does his very authoritarian inclinations.

StringerBell

Trump, oratory skills aside, knows how to work an audience and how to build suspense etc making things likea TV show.

He uses simple, repetitive language that appeals to a certain section. Not sure anybody realised just how big that section was, hopefully lessons have been learned in that regard.

Fake News, Crooked Hilary, Lock Her Up, Build The Wall, Rigged Witchunt, No Collusion, MAGA and the likes repeated over and over, amplified by his parrots at Fox and looped back to him in what he sees as validation of his bull****.

These things are not sophisticated, but they are damn effective.

Bannon does not have the charisma of Trump, he is more intelligent, without a doubt and he has an ideology. Unlike Trump. He knows that holding an elected position is not his area, he sees himself as a revolutionary leading a charge against his enemies. His candidates are not going too well either though really are they? Roy Moore probably his most high profile failure.

At the minute Steve Bannon is basically a political parasite looking out for a new host. His star is fading fast and with it some those primary candidates who have aligned themselves with him as per https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve-bannons-star-fades-senate-candidates/story?id=53427369

His time being relevant in the mainstream is drawing to a close. His revolution is not going to succeed.

mcmoustache

Nox wrote: »

Hmmm … A topic about President Donald J Trump has now DEVOLVED into a topic about Bannon. wow

Disregarding your weird capitalisation for a moment, I don't get the "wow" part. Are you surprised that Trump's former whitehouse chief strategist and ceo of his 2016 campaign would be discussed here?


I don't actually think you're surprised. I suspect that it's more of a cheap shot than any genuine surprise. You're free to do that, of course. You have a right to an opinion, or in this case feigned surprise. But it won't raise your credibility from the gutter that it currently occupies.

Birther nonsense...

1. If the birth certificate were true … why did it take so long to reveal it?

2. Why are the school enrollment records still sealed?

3. When will Occidental College release information about enrollment?

Hopefully this will satisfy your questions … but probably not. I guess being enrolled in a moslem school in Indonesia is of no importance because he was Christian. I guess this is the beginning of multiple pages of birther. For the record … Nox did not start this.

Crowd size nonsense...

Plenty of disputed claims of President Donald J Trump rally attendance. I found it quite amusing that one of the listed 'sources' was from January 2017. And there have been multiple examples of the crowd being scanned. Something tells me that the sheer absence of 'fact check' articles about the crowds outside the speech venues speaks volumes. And as far as the 'hate speech' …. stirring up a crowd with venom to incite actions hardly qualifies for title of 'free speech'. And for the third time I must repeat myself in response to many of the previous comments … "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest …"

listermint

Steve Bannon has no chance of being president. Zero


Trump came in with his rethoric in a nexus in time . Lethargy with politics and a hard base of disillusioned racists.

The centre will not vote for this again and certainly not someone of Bannons persuasion.

Leroy42

listermint wrote: »

Steve Bannon has no chance of being president. Zero


Trump came in with his rethoric in a nexus in time . Lethargy with politics and a hard base of disillusioned racists.

The centre will not vote for this again and certainly not someone of Bannons persuasion.

And, one mustn't forget, Trump ran against HC. She was accepted by her own side, just, but reviled by many.

It is hard to see anyone that the Dems could pick that would cause such angst on the right.

If people are to be believed, there is quite a sizeable amount of people that voted for Trump merely because he was not HC.

Beechwoodspark

listermint wrote: »

Steve Bannon has no chance of being president. Zero


Trump came in with his rethoric in a nexus in time . Lethargy with politics and a hard base of disillusioned racists.

The centre will not vote for this again and certainly not someone of Bannons persuasion.

I listened to a podcast the spectator did with Bannon over the weekend. It was like being near a mad man on a bus. He was ranting and raving away about Russia but he really fears/hates China.

looksee

Leroy42 wrote: »

And, one mustn't forget, Trump ran against HC. She was accepted by her own side, just, but reviled by many.

It is hard to see anyone that the Dems could pick that would cause such angst on the right.

If people are to be believed, there is quite a sizeable amount of people that voted for Trump merely because he was not HC.

Of the few Americans I know, there is one Texan that I know (knew, I got fed up with her views) who claimed exactly that. HC was the devil incarnate, and DT was the only option - anyone but Hillary.

At the same time she did have views that included 'brown people' in a derogatory way, the virtues of hospital care being covered by charity and the dangers of European socialism (while she enjoyed coming to Ireland and the ambiance in spite of/as a result of our socialism!). So while she had doubts about his loud-mouth approach, I reckon she was pretty much on side with him.

Christy42

looksee wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

And, one mustn't forget, Trump ran against HC. She was accepted by her own side, just, but reviled by many.

It is hard to see anyone that the Dems could pick that would cause such angst on the right.

If people are to be believed, there is quite a sizeable amount of people that voted for Trump merely because he was not HC.

Of the few Americans I know, there is one Texan that I know (knew, I got fed up with her views) who claimed exactly that. HC was the devil incarnate, and DT was the only option - anyone but Hillary.

At the same time she did have views that included 'brown people' in a derogatory way, the virtues of hospital care being covered by charity and the dangers of European socialism (while she enjoyed coming to Ireland and the ambiance in spite of/as a result of our socialism!). So while she had doubts about his loud-mouth approach, I reckon she was pretty much on side with him.

I agree. He went after anyone against him. Look at the Republican nominees. I reckon that whoever the Dems send out will be vilified by the time the vote comes around and people will be wondering why they didn't put up (insert name of primary second place) here.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

If people are to be believed, there is quite a sizeable amount of people that voted for Trump merely because he was not HC.

Those people would vote for anyone with an R merely because they do not have a D beside their name.

Overheal

You also have to remember how much the Supreme Court battle upended the 2016 election. Republicans had an absolute panic that the Democrats might actually pull off a Democrat-appointed majority on the Court for the first time in quite literally a generation, and not even a little bit of a majority, but a large and lasting one. That is foremost among the reasons a lot of Republicans that themselves really didn’t like Trump still had to eat crow and get on board: as long as he was anything short of a Nazi, they could swallow him, if it meant that they could finally take a shot at Roe vs Wade and SSM and other issues they perceive as unfair court rulings.

Leroy42

Is it me or has the Trump effect started to wear off.

Both the good (economy and GDP 4.1%) and the bad (Cohen, Mueller etc) don't seem to generate as much talking points as before.

His tweets certainly, to me anyway, don't seem to be having the same effect.

Have people just got bored of his constant stream of consciousness at this stage and are simply ignoring most of it?

Whilst that is good in terms of the bad news, I was struck by how little impact the GDP numbers had. My reading of it was that his speech actually took away from the news. By trying to claim it was historic, and shift the conversation back to Obama, he lost what should have been the focal point, ie the 4.1%.

And people seem simply aware of his game-plan. Number of highly charged (and factually dubious) tweets, followed by nothing much at all. For example, he threatened to shut the government down unless the Dems give in. But how many times has he marched up that hill already.

Just my POV, could be that I am simply not paying as much interest as before.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is it me or has the Trump effect started to wear off.

Just my POV, could be that I am simply not paying as much interest as before.

You can only watch the same TV episode so many times before you get sick of it. And that's exactly how Trump seems to treat everything, like another ****ty episode of the apprentice.
Lots of manufactured drama, no tangible outcome of benefit to anyone.

everlast75

I've stopped reading his tweets.

That was more an "anger-reducing" measure though.

I said months ago that his tweets should be largely ignored (apart from by Mueller et al). Those tweets are meant to steer the narrative, either to throw meat to his base or get the media to pay attention to what he wants them to pay attention to.

He has said pretty much the worst things there are to say on Twitter already, so even the "shock value" is gone.

I certainly don't miss seeing them.