Why do Irish people support English teams?

8-10 · 09-06-2019 12:27pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Like you implied they are more interested in the product and brand.
That's the truth of it.

Right. So are we done with this thread then? Did we answer the question adequately?

gormdubhgorm · 09-06-2019 12:45pm

8-10 wrote: »

Right. So are we done with this thread then? Did we answer the question adequately?

I'd say so.
I have at least some sense of why, even though the logic seems a bit mad to me.
As I now will be off to Croke Park early to see a newly promoted div2 team (Laois) take on a newly promoted div1 team (Meath)

It is not much of a product or might not be high quality.
But it should be entertaining.

EmmetSpiceland · 09-06-2019 12:50pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have been very fair and picked countries of similar population who also have an interest in the English PL football.
I excluded Wales because thier main teams play in the English league. Population smaller only 3.1m.

I’d be very interested in knowing how much money their federations put into their leagues, clubs and prize money for their various competitions.

Perhaps the best thing to come out of the FAI/Delaney debacle will be a board who have an interest in domestic Irish soccer and not just the international team and incredibly high salaries, one would hope anyway.

RoryMac · 09-06-2019 1:37pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I'd say so.
I have at least some sense of why, even though the logic seems a bit mad to me.
As I now will be off to Croke Park early to see a newly promoted div2 team (Laois) take on a newly promoted div1 team (Meath)

It is not much of a product or might not be high quality.
But it should be entertaining.

You seem like a glutton for punishment

citytillidie · 09-06-2019 1:39pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ireland

Population 4.5m

Irish PLD average attendance : 2,686

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0327/1039008-increase-in-sse-airtricity-league-attendances/

It used to be well below the 2000 mark

Scotland

Population: 5.2m

Scottish Premiership average attendance: 15000-16000

Denmark

Population 5.7m

Danish Superliga average attendance: 6000-7000

Norway

Population: 5.3m

Norwegian Eliteserien average attendance: 6000-7000

Celtic and Rangers of course will inflate Scottish league so no point looking at those figures

For European countries attendance stats see below:

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

I have been very fair and picked countries of similar population who also have an interest in the English PL football.
I excluded Wales because thier main teams play in the English league. Population smaller only 3.1m.

Celtic and Rangers will inflate the Scottish league figures, then look at the National sport for Denmark is football so that will have the highest numbers, for Norway the national sport is winter sports. Football there is played in the summer like Ireland so does not compete against that. Ireland national sports is Gaelic games which is in the summer and so is football so they compete money wise people might not be able to afford to go to games

Greyfox · 09-06-2019 5:23pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not for the love of the sport of soccer that Irish PL 'fans' of support a club in EPL soccer.
Like you implied they are more interested in the product and brand.
That's the truth of it.

Little 12 year old Johnny wouldn't understand what brands and marketing are and might have nobody to bring him to a local match. Instead he plays football every day, he sees the cool kids playing football are wearing EPL jerseys, everyone he talks to talks about EPL and everyone talks about the EPL players, everybody in school watches the matches or match of the day. It's easy for Johnny to grow up thinking that everyone who loves football follows a EPL team, he picks his team and his favourite players as it feels part of loving football. Little Johnny spends years talking about his team every day and enjoys watching his team on tv and develops an emotional connection to the club. Little Johnny didn't decide to pick a global brand over his local team, the decision was made without him ever getting the chance to think about it.

blade1 · 09-06-2019 5:30pm

Also little Johnny sees Mo Salah lifting the Champions League Trophy and aspires to do the same one day.
Little Johnny kicks ball in his garden every day dreaming of what could be.
Reach for the stars little Johnny!!!!!
Don't hold back and settle on LOI.

D14Rugby · 09-06-2019 6:26pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Little 12 year old Johnny wouldn't understand what brands and marketing are and might have nobody to bring him to a local match. Instead he plays football every day, he sees the cool kids playing football are wearing EPL jerseys, everyone he talks to talks about EPL and everyone talks about the EPL players, everybody in school watches the matches or match of the day. It's easy for Johnny to grow up thinking that everyone who loves football follows a EPL team, he picks his team and his favourite players as it feels part of loving football. Little Johnny spends years talking about his team every day and enjoys watching his team on tv and develops an emotional connection to the club. Little Johnny didn't decide to pick a global brand over his local team, the decision was made without him ever getting the chance to think about it.

You don't have to know what marketing is to be influenced by it, if fact companies spend small fortunes trying to get marketing that people don't notice but are influenced by

D14Rugby · 09-06-2019 6:29pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Celtic and Rangers will inflate the Scottish league figures, then look at the National sport for Denmark is football so that will have the highest numbers, for Norway the national sport is winter sports. Football there is played in the summer like Ireland so does not compete against that. Ireland national sports is Gaelic games which is in the summer and so is football so they compete money wise people might not be able to afford to go to games

Scotland have the highest percentage of their population attending top flight games, even their bottom SPL teams get attendances that would be top 4 in Ireland, and that's with it being much easier for them to go to games in England.

Ultimate Seduction · 09-06-2019 6:33pm

I've played football at least twice a week for the last 25 years.

I've watched probably 10k games on TV

I've been to over 100 live matches.

I now find I'm not a football fan atall because I don't support Limerick FC.

Sickner

OldMrBrennan83 · 09-06-2019 6:36pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That argument does not stack up plenty of soccer people cannot stand anything to do with the GAA.

Exactly. And they're in a big minority. You've proved the point.

citytillidie · 09-06-2019 6:52pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Scotland have the highest percentage of their population attending top flight games, even their bottom SPL teams get attendances that would be top 4 in Ireland, and that's with it being much easier for them to go to games in England.

Better facilities will bring in more people and there is more money in the Scottish league than the LOI. There bottom teams attendance is bolstered with games V Celtic and Rangers who bring big numbers to away games some teams even giving them 2 stands to fill out.

Removing those games those teams would be averaging around the same as top LOI teams.

Add to the fact that the Scottish FA actually promote their league compared to what the FAI do with their league you are not surprised they have bigger viewing audience at games.

InTheShadows · 09-06-2019 7:44pm

Just my humble opinion but i think until there is some sort of an all Dublin team that is set up and enters a type of European super league in the future (be it the top tier or second tier) then the game won't move forward. GAA and Rugby attract a lot of young talent but on the international stage are small time compared to football so something different and outside the box is needed to turn their heads.

Omackeral · 09-06-2019 8:03pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

Just my humble opinion but i think until there is some sort of an all Dublin team that is set up and enters a type of European super league in the future

You're dead right. We could call them Dublin City and give them sky blue and navy as their colours, like the GAA team. People will flock to see them.

salmocab · 09-06-2019 8:08pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

Just my humble opinion but i think until there is some sort of an all Dublin team that is set up and enters a type of European super league in the future (be it the top tier or second tier) then the game won't move forward. GAA and Rugby attract a lot of young talent but on the international stage are small time compared to football so something different and outside the box is needed to turn their heads.

GAA and Rugby attract young talent because there are whole structures in place for them to reach the highest level. A Dublin team in Europe would need to be running soccer in the whole county and also have other quality outfits to play against. None of that will ever happen.
It needs an ever improving LOI being well ran and being a place that young players aspire to.

D14Rugby · 09-06-2019 8:14pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Better facilities will bring in more people and there is more money in the Scottish league than the LOI. There bottom teams attendance is bolstered with games V Celtic and Rangers who bring big numbers to away games some teams even giving them 2 stands to fill out.

Removing those games those teams would be averaging around the same as top LOI teams.

Add to the fact that the Scottish FA actually promote their league compared to what the FAI do with their league you are not surprised they have bigger viewing audience at games.

The facilities aren't significantly better across the board.

So removing them the bottom teams attendances are still similar to top loi sides? Thanks for just repeating my point I guess?

And that's a reason for fans not to go to games?

D14Rugby · 09-06-2019 8:16pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

Just my humble opinion but i think until there is some sort of an all Dublin team that is set up and enters a type of European super league in the future (be it the top tier or second tier) then the game won't move forward. GAA and Rugby attract a lot of young talent but on the international stage are small time compared to football so something different and outside the box is needed to turn their heads.

GAA and Rugby actually lose out more than they gain in elite players in multiple sports, just so happens we ship out our great young Irish players to England to see if they sink or swim at 16 and most of them don't swim.

Jim Gazebo · 09-06-2019 8:48pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Scotland have the highest percentage of their population attending top flight games, even their bottom SPL teams get attendances that would be top 4 in Ireland, and that's with it being much easier for them to go to games in England.

BUT they have celtic and rangers as big clubs in their local league. You can't discount them.

SHOVELLER · 09-06-2019 8:53pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Hahaha.. and sure soccer is a foreign game and if your really Irish you should only play Irish games, your post shows a lack of understanding of what football is. Football is a global game where connections are so much more than simple geography. A real fan is anybody who continues to support a team when there going through a bad patch. Where is this rule written that you have to pick a team from your own city/country? I know the game very well and I have a real connection with my club, a connection that's just as real and deep as what you have with your club.

Most barstoolers fall in love with a foreign team before they get a chance to go to a LOI match, it's not there fault that the EPL is everywhere, we live in a world where were free to choose and if some choose a foreign league there not breaking any rules. The bemused people you met are just eejits who don't understand football. It's no loss to me, I chose my club wisely, if a club can't give you happiness what's the point of picking them in the first place.

If you want more people to follow the Airtricity league this real fans nonsense needs to end as it puts potential fans off, luckily the vast majority of LOI fans are not like you. Instead you need to be talking up the Airtricity league

I know exactly what football is and what it means. It is you who does not understand what being a fan is. Why don't you "support" hartlepool? You chose your club simply because everybody else "supports" them and they have won trophies. That is the true definition of glory hunting and shows a staggering lack of understanding of what football is all about.

Having a true connection with a club means it is local not somewhere where you have to get on a plane. You have a real connection:D

Again there is no rule as it is common sense. I will make it real easy for you. As an example if you go see Valencia or AIK play the vast majority of people at the game will be from those cities.

I always talk up our league btw but selling it to barstoolers is a lost cause as they are utterly brainwashed.

8-10 wrote: »

You're answering the question anyway as to why Irish people support English clubs

What do you think those attendance numbers tell you about the quality of product on offer?

This quality question is a red herring. I have seen my team play Scandinavian teams in Europe plenty of times and we have never been completely outmatched. Indeed last year we beat AIK in normal time in their own stadium.

It is simply because these countries have a football culture. So instead of cheering on a tv they actually go to games. Real fans;)

trashcan · 09-06-2019 10:27pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

Just my humble opinion but i think until there is some sort of an all Dublin team that is set up and enters a type of European super league in the future (be it the top tier or second tier) then the game won't move forward. GAA and Rugby attract a lot of young talent but on the international stage are small time compared to football so something different and outside the box is needed to turn their heads.

Don't like to dismiss your theory out of hand (but I'm going to dismiss your theory out of hand). To make the kind of sea change that I imagine you have in mind have you thought about what would be required ? To drag the tv punter away from his English team, then a Dublin team would have to be competeing at the very top level in Europe. I'm talking last 8 champions league at least. Irish football fans simply are not interested in anything less as far as I can see (at least not in any significant numbers) The investment required to make that happen makes that highly unlikely. Maybe a European super league will emerge in the future, but if it does then I think we are seeing that it's likely to be a pretty closed shop.

I would be happy enough if our league could sustain all its clubs at a decent professsional level, with regular gates of between 5-10,000 for our top clubs. That should be our medium term aim.

SirGerryAdams · 09-06-2019 11:11pm

Why is the title related to Irish people as if they're the only ones who do it? Football is a global game.

If people only supported the clubs where they are from no club would have a massive following.

Do only people form Barcelona support Barcelona? Do only people from Madrid support Real Madrid? Why do more people support PSG than Fenerbache?

Sure, if Irish people supporting English teams is so bad, couldn't we ask the same why Irish people watch American movies? Why do Irish people watch british soaps?

Bonniedog · 09-06-2019 11:21pm

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Why do Irish people watch british soaps?

You are kind of begging the question now!

Perhaps because they are passive consumers who enjoy watching sh1te, and know no different?

Same could be said of people who believe that sport is something in a box in the corner.

Rather than taking part, or if not watching it being performed live.

EPL is soap opera. Not only does it have no connection in real terms with Irish people no matter what bizarre notions they have of us and youse and them and all that. It doesn't even have any real connection to the cities where the teams are based.

Simple fact. Dumbing down of western civilization. Enjoy

gormdubhgorm · 10-06-2019 12:52am

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Why is the title related to Irish people as if they're the only ones who do it? Football is a global game.

If people only supported the clubs where they are from no club would have a massive following.

It is a question of proportionality.
Yes, more people from around the world follow the big global branded clubs.

But Irish people do so to the detriment of thier own domestic league, to a much greater extent than other countries.
If more Irish PL supporters supported an Irish club team as well,it would make a massive difference to the game of soccer in Ireland.

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Why do Irish people watch british soaps?

On the soap question - I don't watch British soaps - or even English language ones. I watch Ros na Run - helps to improve the Gaeilge.

As for American films don't Irish people watch American films and Irish films ?

Many Irish PL supporters would never watch an Irish club game.

bdmc5 · 10-06-2019 1:03am

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are kind of begging the question now!

Perhaps because they are passive consumers who enjoy watching sh1te, and know no different?

Same could be said of people who believe that sport is something in a box in the corner.

Rather than taking part, or if not watching it being performed live.

EPL is soap opera. Not only does it have no connection in real terms with Irish people no matter what bizarre notions they have of us and youse and them and all that. It doesn't even have any real connection to the cities where the teams are based.

Simple fact. Dumbing down of western civilization. Enjoy

I think you and others here (including the OP) are desperately in need of some perspective. People like you seem to struggle with a basic concept that others wont always enjoy the same thing you do and supporting a team runs far deeper than the basic requirement of living in the area of the team you support. If you enjoy LOI then great, if you support Man U but live in Roscommon then great. Each to their own.

I grew up watching Liverpool games at the weekend with my Dad and when old enough travelling over to games at anfield that all added up to me being a loyal Liverpool fan for 25 years and yet to enjoy winning a league

I live maybe 15misn from Cork city stadium. I have enjoyed going to many Cork City Games as well over the last 25 years (LOI, UEFA Cup etc) but i am definitely far more a Liverpool Fan than a Cork City fan and always have been.

I really dont enjoy the poor standard of football that LOI offers and threads like this only confirm that theres this cohort of LOI fans that have this almost misguided sense of superiority as a fan because they supoort a LOI team than one in UK. LOI Fans like you remind me of Vegans who cant understand people that eat meat - Just astounding smallminded.

8-10 · 10-06-2019 8:46am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

On the soap question - I don't watch British soaps - or even English language ones. I watch Ros na Run - helps to improve the Gaeilge.

Why do Irish people watch British soaps - “I don’t, I watch Irish ones”

Why do Irish people support English clubs - “I don’t, I support Irish ones”

My impression of your argument is that you don’t get why others don’t like to do the same thing as you for the same reasons you do it based on this individualistic response to a broader question about Irish people in general

Keeps getting said here - people have different interests and not everybody cares about the LOI being successful

Jim Gazebo · 10-06-2019 8:54am

8-10 wrote: »

Why do Irish people watch British soaps - “I don’t, I watch Irish ones”

Why do Irish people support English clubs - “I don’t, I support Irish ones”

My impression of your argument is that you don’t get why others don’t like to do the same thing as you for the same reasons you do it based on this individualistic response to a broader question about Irish people in general

Keeps getting said here - people have different interests and not everybody cares about the LOI being successful

I'm glad to see you admitted that. This is what it's about, the Irish people should care about the LOI being successful. Do you not want to see the LOI get a little bigger and more professional at all so? So that you could go 5 mins down the road to a 20000 packed out dublin Derby for some real blood and guts football?

Bonniedog · 10-06-2019 9:16am

bdmc5 wrote: »

. People like you seem to struggle with a basic concept that others wont always enjoy the same thing you do

…..

LOI Fans like you remind me of Vegans who cant understand people that eat meat - Just astounding smallminded.

I honestly do not have a problem with other people enjoy things differently to me. I'm in my 50s, vive la difference and all that.

I do think that there is value in having an intimate connection with the place you come from. There is an American chap called Wendell Berry is good on all that. Although he wouldn't be on the internet talking about it, as he never bought a computer

Not an LOI fan as it happens. Used to go to Milltown 40 years ago in the Mick Leech era. Vast majority of games I go to now are Dublin county hurling or club games, but have friends who are Bohs members (one or two of them not be greatly fond of GAA as it happens!) so we have a common bond of being part of a pretty small community.

I suppose it is the same thing as people who prefer blues sessions or trad sessions or live rock gigs with local bands as opposed to just consuming via the media. If others choose differently then, that's their choice.

What's unique about any culture are things distinct to it. Not that people in Malaysia or Japan are besotted with EPL or American baseball. Is there a Game of Thrones community?

Probably.

8-10 · 10-06-2019 9:28am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I'm glad to see you admitted that. This is what it's about, the Irish people should care about the LOI being successful. Do you not want to see the LOI get a little bigger and more professional at all so? So that you could go 5 mins down the road to a 20000 packed out dublin Derby for some real blood and guts football?

I could say the same about many sports though. Why can't we fill Malahide for a test match? Why watch the Ashes on TV and not to down to Merrion and support local cricket? Stop our best players going to England? Why do we struggle to fund a baseball diamond in Ashbourne? People watch Red Sox and Yankees and many are travelling over to the London Series this month. Same with NFL over the local league here, why not try make it professional? Why don't people in Donegal get behind hurling more? Why do connacht get lower attendances than Leinster? Why do we watch amateur Boxing and Track in the Olympics but don't go to local events here? Why is our Curling team based in Scotland, unable to get rink time on this island?

Everyone has different interests mate. Why should I care about the LOI being professional because you do? I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy about it, I would. But I'd much prefer to see more investment in baseball and cricket before it because those are games I'd prefer to go to locally

Jim Gazebo · 10-06-2019 9:38am

8-10 wrote: »

I could say the same about many sports though. Why can't we fill Malahide for a test match? Why watch the Ashes on TV and not to down to Merrion and support local cricket? Stop our best players going to England? Why do we struggle to fund a baseball diamond in Ashbourne? People watch Red Sox and Yankees and many are travelling over to the London Series this month. Same with NFL over the local league here, why not try make it professional? Why don't people in Donegal get behind hurling more? Why do connacht get lower attendances than Leinster? Why do we watch amateur Boxing and Track in the Olympics but don't go to local events here? Why is our Curling team based in Scotland, unable to get rink time on this island?

Everyone has different interests mate. Why should I care about the LOI being professional because you do? I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy about it, I would. But I'd much prefer to see more investment in baseball and cricket before it because those are games I'd prefer to go to locally

You are missing the point by miles!

8-10 · 10-06-2019 9:44am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

You are missing the point by miles!

You're saying "the Irish people" should support LOI

I'm saying that we have much more diverse interests as a people than that.

I'm more interested in EPL being successful personally

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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