Why do Irish people support English teams?

Jim Gazebo

8-10 wrote: »

I met all sorts in Madrid after the game partying on the street. Probably mostly English from outside of Liverpool but also lots from Ireland and Norway. Same with the fanzone beforehand. Plenty from Liverpool, sure, but it was clearly a more diverse celebration

I think it’s great to be honest. The way people are talking here it’s as if they think Liverpool is only supported by locals and Irish people who are ignoring the LOI.

They just don’t have a concept of what the modern elite EPL team is like. A global family. A community of its own.

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

The Moldy Gowl

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

Dunno. A lot of those countries have decent leauges.
Like the Norwegian leauge and Danish would have good crowds and they are similar to us here and they have a heavy following of English football.
But they go down to their local leauge as well, same with the yanks as well. The mls is pulling in serious crowds these days.
Pretty sure Asia has a decent leauge as well.


There is no problem following top flight football. Its a completely different beast, its nearly a separate thing at this stage.
I just found going to games completely changes your view on how the game is played.

Jim Gazebo

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

Dunno. A lot of those countries have decent leauges.
Like the Norwegian leauge and Danish would have good crowds and they are similar to us here and they have a heavy following of English football.
But they go down to their local leauge as well, same with the yanks as well. The mls is pulling in serious crowds these days.
Pretty sure Asia has a decent leauge as well.


There is no problem following top flight football. Its a completely different beast, its nearly a separate thing at this stage.
I just found going to games completely changes your view on how the game is played.

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

Jim Gazebo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

What I'm saying is, we could do both like Denmark say. But we have people who don't want to.

gormdubhgorm

I am still struck by the level of cognitive dissonance by Irish fans those who support English Premier League clubs.
Yet they also support Ireland at an international level

Representation - sense of place - identity - community:

The English club

It does not represent where the Irish person is from, at all.
It is a foreign city in a foreign land.
A manufactured choice based purely on success, marketing and consumerism.
Not an identity in any shape or form.


The Irish football team -

The Irish football team represents the country the supporter is from - a natural connection,
Not manufactured, it is organic.
A natural choice.


Standard-Level-Quality-Style of play:

The English Club:

When supporting the English club only the best will do - this normally means top six team.
Best players, great style of play, glamour, excitement etc

The Irish football team:

The Irish football team have a terrible style of play.
Most of the players are journeymen pros.
The style ranges from hoofing the ball all the time - to not hoofing it as much
None of the players can arguably be called 'world class'.






Yet when you ask the same Irish Premier League supporter to support a LOI team/local team like they would with Ireland.
Suddenly the excuses start......

It's crazy really, it is like part of the brain shuts off and all logic disappears.

Omackeral

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't.

I've found that if you start people off on a derby game or a high stakes fixture, you're likely to get them back again. The colour, the noise, even the venom... being in the middle of it all does hook them in a bit. They're kind of taken in by it, from what I've seen anyway. I think if people give it a chance and luck is on your side that the atmosphere is good or a decent performance is put on they'll come back.

It's getting them there initially that's tough, and then doubly challenging if they happen to see an uninspiring game and write the lot off and that's that for them. There's an element of fortune in these things. I also think people should give it at least two or three games before making up their mind completely.

The Moldy Gowl

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Agreed on Denmark, Norway not so much outside of rosenborg. But that's the way it should be done, and we could have that if people piled into the grounds here. The atmosphere in a packed tallaght, dalymount, Turners Cross is unbelievable and should keep people coming. But it doesn't. Because people can say, we won the champions league the loi is crap.

I just did a quick Google there on Norway. They have some moderately sized stadiums. https://www.transfermarkt.com/eliteserien/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/NO1/saison_id/2017

A lot of 3/4/5k attendence. Few tipping 10.If Ireland could get that base of people going week in week out that would be good going.
If the new crowd come in and change the leauge here and in 5/10 years, the facilities are looked after it would be a good leauge and be able to hold onto the good players. Few teams would even sneak into the champions leauge.

Top level football is changing for the worse with the money and curruption going on and the proposed plans. Sure look at the world Cup in qator and how many fans are saying they will boycott it but still watch it.


I was probably one of those fans who brushed aside the loi and I regret it after I gave it a chance.
Now ill be on the bus to Waterford in a few weeks with bohs lads i didn't know a year ago having a great day out.
If you told me that 3 years ago I wouldn't believe you.

Jim Gazebo

The Moldy Gowl wrote: »

I just did a quick Google there on Norway. They have some moderately sized stadiums. https://www.transfermarkt.com/eliteserien/besucherzahlen/wettbewerb/NO1/saison_id/2017

A lot of 3/4/5k attendence. Few tipping 10.If Ireland could get that base of people going week in week out that would be good going.
If the new crowd come in and change the leauge here and in 5/10 years, the facilities are looked after it would be a good leauge and be able to hold onto the good players. Few teams would even sneak into the champions leauge.

Top level football is changing for the worse with the money and curruption going on and the proposed plans. Sure look at the world Cup in qator and how many fans are saying they will boycott it but still watch it.


I was probably one of those fans who brushed aside the loi and I regret it after I gave it a chance.
Now ill be on the bus to Waterford in a few weeks with bohs lads i didn't know a year ago having a great day out.
If you told me that 3 years ago I wouldn't believe you.

That is superb to hear. There is hope for us yet, it is one of the great football experiences, seeing your team win away. The day out and the feeling leaving that place with 3 points, enjoy it all.

8-10

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

No what you are not understanding is most of those countries have the problem we have where people want to follow the glory. Their local Leagues are also poor and unsupported.

I understand it, that's the point I was making! It's others who don't get that.

It was in reply to this post which was suggesting Ireland is somehow unique:

SHOVELLER wrote: »

It happens everywhere in the world except Ireland. Its called supporting a club from your own country.

You said that post was "nail on the head"

I'm saying it's not "everywhere in the world except Ireland"

You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that it's everywhere but Ireland and agree that most of the other countries have the same problem.

It's not unique to Ireland. And I'm not going to worry for a second about any of those leagues when I watch and support my team

gormdubhgorm

Omackeral wrote: »

I've found that if you start people off on a derby game or a high stakes fixture, you're likely to get them back again. The colour, the noise, even the venom... being in the middle of it all does hook them in a bit. They're kind of taken in by it, from what I've seen anyway. I think if people give it a chance and luck is on your side that the atmosphere is good or a decent performance is put on they'll come back.

It's getting them there initially that's tough, and then doubly challenging if they happen to see an uninspiring game and write the lot off and that's that for them. There's an element of fortune in these things. I also think people should give it at least two or three games before making up their mind completely.

Well with the big GAA head on me, I decided to go an see Rovers v Dundalk this month.
Because I saw Rovers v Bohs on the telly recently, and thought -
'Oh that looks like a bit of craic, packed ground atmosphere. - A bit like Parnell park.'

I will be going as a neutral travelling across from the other side of Dublin, in the hope of seeing a game with a bit of tension and bite.
I go with no aspirations about quality/standard/level and the like.
I just will be going to see a game of soccer and two teams giving it a lash, in a good atmosphere.

Greyfox

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am still struck by the level of cognitive dissonance by Irish fans those who support English Premier League clubs.
Yet they also support Ireland at an international level

Representation - sense of place - identity - community:

...It's crazy really, it is like part of the brain shuts off and all logic disappears.

I watch the national team as its the country I was born in, I get the sense of identity. In Dublin though its common for a EPL fan to live a 15 min drive away from a LOI stadium and feel zero sense of identity/community from LOI football so they dont feel a connection with the LOI as they didnt grow up with family/friends talking about the LOI as they always talked about a different league instead. Now if they go to a few good LOI matches a connection would likely develop but if they never went to a LOI game the identity/community thing means absolutely nothing to them. All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

8-10

Greyfox wrote: »

All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

Yeah and persuading should come from the club too and some try things well in fairness to them.

The main issue is this argument "you should support it because it's your area and it's your responsibility to ensure the league gets the support to succeed instead of embarrassingly following an English team and singing pathetic songs"

It's more of a turn off to be constantly told how to spend your money and this perception of being forced to buy into something because it happens nearby

And then people are surprised that we don't feel pride in our local team and don't want to go to games where people only care if you're a real fan and look down on you if you only go to the bigger games. It's not a welcoming attitude at all

These people should be happy with the EPL fans who don't go to LOI games because they don't adhere to these rules so they shouldn't want them there anyway

It's a shame that you can't just take the attitude that it's great for any fan to go to games and not to care about their reason for support. That's how I feel about Liverpool. Always happy to see fans going to games. Have no reason to care about why they're there

RobMc59

You're talking about watching a game-people aren't pledging allegiance to anyone or being unpatriotic.
I don't particularly like liverpool (arch rivals)but went to a game many years ago with a friend who supported liverpool when they played st etienne at Anfield and will never forget the electric atmosphere and roar of the crowd for as long as I live-Ive also experienced dramatic,exhilarating games at goodison which can't be matched .(I've also been to tranmere rovers matches, it's good but not the same as top flight).

gormdubhgorm

Greyfox wrote: »

I watch the national team as its the country I was born in, I get the sense of identity. In Dublin though its common for a EPL fan to live a 15 min drive away from a LOI stadium and feel zero sense of identity/community from LOI football so they dont feel a connection with the LOI as they didnt grow up with family/friends talking about the LOI as they always talked about a different league instead. Now if they go to a few good LOI matches a connection would likely develop but if they never went to a LOI game the identity/community thing means absolutely nothing to them. All LOI fans can do is persuade more EPL fans of the benifits of LOI and hope they give LOI a fair chance, it can be tough though as people have busy lives these days.

So it is much much easier to travel to an airport by car/bus, get there two hours before the flight.
Travel over to England....
Then get more transportation from there to the Stadium?



Plus that is not getting into the difference in cost etc.

Jim Gazebo

8-10 wrote: »

I understand it, that's the point I was making! It's others who don't get that.

It was in reply to this post which was suggesting Ireland is somehow unique:



You said that post was "nail on the head"

I'm saying it's not "everywhere in the world except Ireland"

You can't have it both ways. You can't agree that it's everywhere but Ireland and agree that most of the other countries have the same problem.

It's not unique to Ireland. And I'm not going to worry for a second about any of those leagues when I watch and support my team

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

gormdubhgorm

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

It all comes back to branding.
Look at how the locals in Doonbeg view Trump.
A billionaire businessman pumped money into a golf club and hotel.
The club and hotel bring in business and money.
Now not only that he is President of the United States!

Trump looked after thier own, thier community.
Now all the yanks that go to Ireland will want to go there.

It is the reverse of what happens with the Irish Premier league 'tourist's' travel over to England.
Where the clubs are owned by billionaire businessmen.

Jim Gazebo

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It all comes back to branding.
Look at how the locals in Doonbeg view Trump.
A billionaire businessman pumped money into a golf club and hotel.
The club and hotel bring in business and money.
Now not only that he is President of the United States!

Trump looked after thier own, thier community.
Now all the yanks that go to Ireland will want to go there.

It is the reverse of what happens with the Irish Premier league 'tourist's' travel over to England.
Where the clubs are owned by billionaire businessmen.

Exactly. If you say you follow city, the person will generally next ask why, how, its ****e etc etc etc. It would drive you insane. And middle of the road lads like 8-10 here who will go to a few games but use excuses like I can't watch away games as their excuse for not supporting the loi, are the worst of the lot. Saying you understand when you don't.

The Moldy Gowl

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah and persuading should come from the club too and some try things well in fairness to them.

The main issue is this argument "you should support it because it's your area and it's your responsibility to ensure the league gets the support to succeed instead of embarrassingly following an English team and singing pathetic songs"

It's more of a turn off to be constantly told how to spend your money and this perception of being forced to buy into something because it happens nearby

And then people are surprised that we don't feel pride in our local team and don't want to go to games where people only care if you're a real fan and look down on you if you only go to the bigger games. It's not a welcoming attitude at all

These people should be happy with the EPL fans who don't go to LOI games because they don't adhere to these rules so they shouldn't want them there anyway

It's a shame that you can't just take the attitude that it's great for any fan to go to games and not to care about their reason for support. That's how I feel about Liverpool. Always happy to see fans going to games. Have no reason to care about why they're there

Clubs do their bit. Dundalk and Cork push themselves on their patch, especially dundalk.
Rovers do the same in tallaght and same with bohs. The clubs are doing all they can really, it's more the fai who don't really care.

Here is a video bohs did at the start of last season. Pretty sure rovers do something similar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bfcdublin/status/957946012164816896

8-10

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I think it has been established I was wrong here. Most other countries do support their own and then something after. I don't get peoples defensiveness, just admit you couldn't be bothered following the loi because it isn't fashionable. This is the reason I think.

Who cares what the reason is? The actual reason is because I had already selected my team before even knowing about the LOI. But sure it’s because it’s not fashionable or because I hate Ireland and love the Brits or because of advertising and I’m a consumer.

It doesn’t matter. Any reason is a valid reason for following your team. The entire point we’re going over and over again is that it shouldn’t matter except to many LOI fans it seems to.

And it’s the fact that many LOI fans care about the reasons other fans support a club that put people off going. Why would I go to a game now at my age knowing that the guy beside me looks down on me for not going all my life and because I support Liverpool? Why even bother if I’m being judged before going to the turnstiles?

Greyfox

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So it is much much easier to travel to an airport by car/bus, get there two hours before the flight.
Travel over to England....

On tv been in a crowd with 70,000 people following a team you love looks like a great experience and it helps when you know the players and are traveling with friends, it's a great experience. I've been to St pats games before, my initial thoughts pre game where like a lot of EPL fans.. 5,000 people can't be a v good atmosphere but I was wrong it can be a nice atmosphere

blade1

Even LOI players support EPL teams.
Start by trying to get all your own bunch on side before preaching to the masses.

Jim Gazebo

The point is no one should have to preach. No one is going to look down on you if you start going to LOI games. I don't get your attitude of I started with the pool before I knew about the LOI. So? Go and support the local team then? But that wouldn't be as fun as the global brand.

As for loi players supporting English teams. Most of the players in the EPL aren't even English.

blade1

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

The point is no one should have to preach. No one is going to look down

Doesn't look like it
If I start going to LOI games and bring my UK cousin that's moved here recently, with me,your telling he is not welcome to become a regular supporter?

Jim Gazebo

8-10 wrote: »

Who cares what the reason is? The actual reason is because I had already selected my team before even knowing about the LOI. But sure it’s because it’s not fashionable or because I hate Ireland and love the Brits or because of advertising and I’m a consumer.

It doesn’t matter. Any reason is a valid reason for following your team. The entire point we’re going over and over again is that it shouldn’t matter except to many LOI fans it seems to.

And it’s the fact that many LOI fans care about the reasons other fans support a club that put people off going. Why would I go to a game now at my age knowing that the guy beside me looks down on me for not going all my life and because I support Liverpool? Why even bother if I’m being judged before going to the turnstiles?

Of course it matters. I'd like to see our local teams and Leagues succeed. To do this, you have figure out why, one reason is The FAI, the other is irish people trekking to EPL games. No one is judging you if you started attending loi games. Judging for going to Liverpool and wanting to be a scouser? Yes

Jim Gazebo

blade1 wrote: »

Doesn't look like it
If I start going to LOI games and bring my UK cousin that's moved here recently, with me,your telling he is not welcome to become a regular supporter?

Where did I say that? He'd be welcomed

Omackeral

8-10 wrote: »

It's not unique to Ireland.

What is unique though is the absolute vitriol and dislike for England but attaching ourselves to their clubs to the point where the default is calling them 'us'. There's an irony or hypocrisy there most certainly.

blade1

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Where did I say that? He'd be welcomed

But he is not from here and should support his team where he is from I thought ye were saying.

The Moldy Gowl

blade1 wrote: »

Even LOI players support EPL teams.
Start by trying to get all your own bunch on side before preaching to the masses.

Really don't know how many times this has to be said.
You can do both. That's the point.
You can go to a game on Friday and then pull on your retro Liverpool shirt and go to the pub on Saturday.
No one cares

No one will know its your first game if you do go, even if you told someone they would more than likely talk to you and invite you to come with them.
New people aren't singled out.

There is usually a British stag party at bohs every few games and no one cares.

Jim Gazebo

blade1 wrote: »

But he is not from here and should support his team where he is from I thought ye were saying.

Christ. If you're living in the area for a while there is connection. He's not in the UK, exclusively supporting an Irish team is he? Different.

Omackeral

8-10 wrote: »

The main issue is this argument "you should support it because it's your area and it's your responsibility to ensure the league gets the support to succeed instead of following an English team"

As well as, would be my argument. You can do both. Most do have a team they like across the water contrary to belief.