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Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

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  • 10-08-2017 11:56pm
    #1
    Video
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭


    I remember when it first launched , on the wikipedia page there was tons of "future channels" like RTE 3, TV3 HD, TG4 HD etc now that has alll long dissapeared. when you look at what the uk have for free saorview is a joke, and they're looking to increase the license fee lol.


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    #2
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Long before it ever launched, it was clear that there just isn't a big enough market in Ireland to sustain multiple channels. Add the number of homes that have satellite or cable and what's left on purely terrestrial is very small. That horse had bolted long before the stable was even built.:)


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    #3
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,345 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    In the early days of DTV, was there talk of an alternative basket of digital channels and did the prospective bidders then all pull out?

    I think the problem in Ireland is that if you set up an alternative terrestrial TV service, your main viewership is going to be rural viewers with aerials. Being blunt about it, advertisers would see these people as relatively poor, low-spending and elderly - the very people they don't care about.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    coylemj wrote: »
    In the early days of DTV, was there talk of an alternative basket of digital channels and did the prospective bidders then all pull out?

    I think the problem in Ireland is that if you set up an alternative terrestrial TV service, your main viewership is going to be rural viewers with aerials. Being blunt about it, advertisers would see these people as relatively poor, low-spending and elderly - the very people they don't care about.
    That's correct. The first applicant pulled out around the time of the ITV Digital collapse. It was then readvertised about 10 years ago and the same thing happened with two or three bidders pulling out. Hence why RTENL/2RN went it alone with Saorview, pretty much as a replacement for the analogue network and not a whole lot more.


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    #5
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    These BAI press releases summarises the last time they attempted to award commercial DTT contracts
    http://www.bai.ie/en/bai-statement-on-digital-terrestrial-television-dtt-contracts-awards-process/
    http://www.bai.ie/en/bai-statement-on-conclusion-of-commercial-dtt-multiplex-licensing-process/

    The winning bidder was to be the "digital champion" who would build, sell, promote DTT to the public with the free PSB channels as a bolt-on to a bundle of pay DTT channels. This would be similar to DTT operations in Scandinavia, Netherlands etc.

    This is a post I made a few months regarding the failure of the first commercial DTT project back in 2002 when the sole bidder -Its'TV- withdrew - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103064794#post103064794


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    #6
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Saorview should have teamed up with rte and setanta at the time and became a TV company to rival sky (on a smaller scale) rather than exist in their current non state.

    If we funded rte through subscription instead of fees it would have been better. Maybe setanta added would generate interest for the sports side of things. Could attract some small TV stations from the UK to bulk it up.


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    #7
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Saorview should have teamed up with rte and setanta at the time and became a TV company to rival sky (on a smaller scale) rather than exist in their current non state.

    Saorview is RTE's DTT brand that they had to create after the commercial DTT project failed.

    RTE were part of the Easy TV consortium bidding for one of the commercial contracts and Setanta were part of the OneVision consortium. With limited capacity a pay DTT operation was a non runner with competition from Sky, UPC and the overspill of the FTA UK channels.


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    #8
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,276 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Any ideas ballpark the costs of adding a channel for a year? I'm kind of surprised Saorview doesn't have a self run infomercial channel that it offers advertisers slots on.


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    #9
    kyeev
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭kyeev


    A no brainer for me would be the addition of +1 channels for everything on there


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    #10
    Machinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Something's gone really wrong with Saorview, don't get me wrong, I was lucky enough to get a colour image during the analogue days. HD availability for all channels on Saorview remains a contentious issue. While the HD variants of some channels or their +1's continue on the Sky digital platform, their conspicuous absence from Saorview raises some questionable business & management decisions. Consider if you will, if all broadcasters except the state broadcaster in the UK decided to abandon their Freeview HD channels & their +1's to boot, I think Freeview would collapse leading to a massive increase in Sky subscriptions. Saorview & the channels on their network really need to get their heads out of the sand & consider providing an adequate service to the viewer. Competition from internet services has increased massively since Saorview's launch & now they risk being left behind in the race to provide a competitive package for the viewer.


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    #11
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    saorview will probably never be anything more than it is right now. Just getting the Virgin owned channels in HD would be some sort of triumph at this stage.


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    #12
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,562 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Consider if you will, if all broadcasters except the state broadcaster in the UK decided to abandon their Freeview HD channels & their +1's to boot, I think Freeview would collapse leading to a massive increase in Sky subscriptions.

    After due consideration I cannot figure out why anyone would want to get Sky in that scenario. They could get Freesat instead, or just use a Free to Air satellite receiver.

    I didn't know there was a state broadcaster in the UK.


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    #13
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    What I can never get my head around is that RTÉ say they can't afford to run +1s. Yet 2RN (RTÉ with a different hat on) quite happily burn the same electricity running testcards 24/7. Of course there is the other aspect of government meddling, because TV3 whinged so much, leading to the no ads adbreaks on Newsnow.


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    #14
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,345 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    After due consideration I cannot figure out why anyone would want to get Sky in that scenario. They could get Freesat instead, or just use a Free to Air satellite receiver.

    I didn't know there was a state broadcaster in the UK.

    BBC?
    • Funded by the TV licence
    • Run by a board of governors appointed by a Govt. minister


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    #15
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    What I can never get my head around is that RTÉ say they can't afford to run +1s. Yet 2RN (RTÉ with a different hat on) quite happily burn the same electricity running testcards 24/7.

    The testcard data is hardly 'burning electricity' over & above whatever else they'd have to put there to fill the space.


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    #16
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Thurston? wrote: »
    The testcard data is hardly 'burning electricity' over & above whatever else they'd have to put there to fill the space.

    Why have those channels broadcasting at all?
    What is the purpose?


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    #17
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    I don't know why the hidden channels are there, or care much either, apart from the fact they are a nuisance with receivers that don't hide them.


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    #18
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Thurston? wrote: »
    apart from the fact they are a nuisance with receivers that don't hide them.

    Which may be a reason, to discourage the use of non-Saorview receivers.


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    #19
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    The Cush wrote: »
    Which may be a reason, to discourage the use of non-Saorview receivers.

    I guess, by that, they don't show up on Saorview approved receivers ...


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    I guess, by that, they don't show up on Saorview approved receivers ...

    On the Walker combo you can't view them at all, not even by entering the channel number.


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    #21
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    The Cush wrote: »
    Which may be a reason, to discourage the use of non-Saorview receivers.

    Well, you'd want to be easily discouraged, as they're not hard to get rid of, & necessary retunes are pretty rare.


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    #22
    MACHEAD
    Registered Users Posts: 499 ✭✭MACHEAD


    Even if there is just a black screen, it's still being transmitted at around 150 Kw, and much higher in some regions.  In todays energy conscious world, that's a wanton waste in anyone's book.


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    #23
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    What I can never get my head around is that RTÉ say they can't afford to run +1s. Yet 2RN (RTÉ with a different hat on) quite happily burn the same electricity running testcards 24/7. Of course there is the other aspect of government meddling, because TV3 whinged so much, leading to the no ads adbreaks on Newsnow.

    Well what you have is a regulator gone rogue under pressure from vested interests.

    ComReg set the parameters for Saorview charges which was done following complaints from TV3. The charges are set by usage of bandwidth, sharing the cost among the users. Now TV3 have screwed down their bandwidth (fuzzy vision) to reduce their fees to a minimum. Meanwhile we have two muxes that cost €12 m per year. RTE run four channels, two of the HD which costs them about €8 m. They could fit all their channels onto one mux and let TV3 and TG4 share the other one and pay the full cost - but they could then go HD.

    Meanwhile, BAI prevent RTE running RTE NewsNow with advertising and RTE has to show kids programmes on RTE 2 and RTE jr without advertising. However, TV3 are allowed huge number of minutes advertising per hour (twice RTE's allowance).

    If RTE were to use more bandwidth, rather than allow it to be burnt off, it would cost them even more money for using their own mux.

    RTE is not popular in political circles - look how they refused to pay to have their own faces on their own TV channel.


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    #24
    h7nlrp2v0g5u48
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭h7nlrp2v0g5u48


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    saorview will probably never be anything more than it is right now. Just getting the Virgin owned channels in HD would be some sort of triumph at this stage.
    I agree Saorview is just a dead duck as far as offering more choice and HD content. Until someone steps in and tries to solve the carraige deal issue which I would say is a big obstacle for broadcasters to launch their channels on the Saorview platform I think people who don't have access or can't afford to pay for Sky, Virgin or any other pay tv platform will continue to be left out in the cold regarding channel choice on Saorview.


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    #25
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    My guess is any new channels on Saorview will be IPTV channels via Saorview Connect.


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    #26
    Thurston?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭Thurston?


    MACHEAD wrote: »
    Even if there is just a black screen, it's still being transmitted at around 150 Kw, and much higher in some regions.  In todays energy conscious world, that's a wanton waste in anyone's book.

    Look, the 2nd mux had to be switched on because everything wouldn't fit on a single mux. The only way they can save energy is to convert to DVB-T2, & put everything back on single mux.

    And won't a big part of your 150 KW figure be aerial gain, not transmitter power?


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    #27
    mackersdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    Thurston? wrote: »
    Look, the 2nd mux had to be switched on because everything wouldn't fit on a single mux. The only way they can save energy is to convert to DVB-T2, & put everything back on single mux.

    And won't a big part of your 150 KW figure be aerial gain, not transmitter power?

    Is there any indication that Saorview will move to DVB-T2 in the future?


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    #28
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mackersdublin wrote: »
    Is there any indication that Saorview will move to DVB-T2 in the future?

    No, sufficient capacity available in the current DTT plan and future (2020) DTT replan using the current standard. Maybe if they ever decide to broadcast some channels in UHD then the move to DVB-T2/HEVC would be required.


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    #29
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    No more channels will be coming to Saorview, that was tried with UTV Ireland. The only thing left is to upgrade as many channels to High Definition end of story.


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    #30
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Gerry Wicklow wrote: »
    What I can never get my head around is that RTÉ say they can't afford to run +1s. Yet 2RN (RTÉ with a different hat on) quite happily burn the same electricity running testcards 24/7. Of course there is the other aspect of government meddling, because TV3 whinged so much, leading to the no ads adbreaks on Newsnow.
    And being forced to retain childrens output on RTE2.

    Basically, political intereference and regulators putting commercial competition first is what has hampered saorview's development. I really can't get my head around them even allowing sky a submission in the process when they refuse to be regulated here.

    This even comes down to how saorview is seemingly not allowed to advertise the FTA options. The number of people simply unaware that they'd have all the main UK channels for free still staggers me. You can see even sky have coped this with the price difference for NowTV here compared to the UK - in the UK it's about getting the remaining sub free households, here they're walking a tightrope of people realising how much they're paying for is actually free!

    The best hope for a proper rival platform is some official tie in/ offering with freesat (an official saorview/ freesat combo), but probably more unlikely now than it's ever been.


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    #31
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Equally saddening is the number of people who come on here thinking of ditching Sky and think that Saorview is an alternative. Due to, at best vague advertising, they don't understand it doesn't have the UK FTA channels.


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