The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

gormdubhgorm · 12-08-2019 11:21pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

The title of the table will do nothing for you if you are trying to convince fans that are against you.

Gachla wrote: »

It's not just the Dublin senior footballers though is it? If it was just them it could be explained away, it's women's football, men's hurling, club football and hurling, underage, basically, Dublin GAA has improved in all areas. This has happened at the same time that Dublin got a huge increase in funding. It can't be just a coincidence? I saw this table on another website, it's not very pretty but it shows the big improvements in Dublin GAA.

Plus why are the different columns in Mayo colours?

Also increase in funding does not equate to increase in success that is fallacy.

If that was the case China would dominate snooker - they do not (still have not won a world title despite the hype)
China would dominate soccer - they do not (What have they done in any World Cup?)
The Dublin hurlers were beaten by Laois this year!

Dublin's success is down to these things -

1) Shrewd management of finances (I would argue they are actually underfunded given the population size)

2) Implementation of a decent structure and plan

3) A core of fantastic players who happened to reach thier peak now - who were playing football underage long before any plan was conceived

4) Poor planning in other counties - Meath let thier youth structure whiter and die - no plan after Boylan for example

5) Other counties following fads that may not have suited thier team - defensive football etc - Kildare/Galway

6) Other counties showing lack of innovation

7) Fantastic Dublin management - it could easily fall apart if the wrong fella is in charge

Gachla · 12-08-2019 11:22pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

The title of the table will do nothing for you if you are trying to convince fans that are against you.

Not my table, ignore the heading, is the table correct?

jr86 · 12-08-2019 11:22pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

They hadn’t won a Leinster title in fifty years and 1990 aside hadn’t even come close.

They had one Leinster club hurling title go to a Dublin club since 1970, no All Irelands.

This decade they have won a Leinster intercounty title, get Cunningham aside are very competitive against the best teams in the country and had a club win back to back All Irelands, albeit one with a few immigrants.

Saying Dublin hurling has not been transformed since funding massively jumped is really head in the sand stuff.

Yeah i imagine a lot of the younger posters in their teens/early 20s would have little or no recollection as to the level Dublin hurlers were actually at about 12/15 years ago and beyond. And this would skew their perception as to the actual improvement they have made

Its easily the biggest improvement seen in county hurling in my lifetime anyway. Its like expecting Antrim or Carlow nowadays to start competing with top sides regularly and beating them from time to time competitively, and to win a Leinster title and make an All Ireland semi in the 2020s

Donnielighto · 12-08-2019 11:24pm

Gachla wrote: »

Not my table, ignore the heading, is the table correct?

No idea, didn't put it together, I'd have to see the source data but I'd wager the creator is biased.

Gachla · 12-08-2019 11:25pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

No idea, didn't put it together, I'd have to see the source data but I'd wager the creator is biased.

So what if they're biased, the table can be easily checked out. If they are correct, the numbers are shocking!

ClanofLams · 12-08-2019 11:26pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Hurling counties wax and wane. Look at Offaly. They have fallen away not just from Dublin but the rest. Their funding is comparable with all other counties except Dublin.

Given Dublins population there is nothing transformative about it.

It’s clearly transformative given the previous fifty years of results, two good years aside.

This has been by far and away the best decade for hurling in the last sixty years.

Coincidentally it’s also happening when their footballers are enjoying a period of dominance unparalleled in the history of Dublin football. Both of which are coincidentally happening after a dramatic increase in funding fifteen to twenty years ago.

You must be a big believer in coincidence.

RoyalCelt · 12-08-2019 11:27pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Play the all Ireland football Final somewhere other than in Dublin. Take the home advantage away. If the final was in Killarney I'd have it a 50/50.

Great idea. At the rate it's going I could see kerry or Cork demanding finals be played somewhere in Munster. The final would be reduced by 35k in attendance but if Dublin win it every year and get the lions share of funds I can see counties stop caring about the money.

Donnielighto · 12-08-2019 11:29pm

Gachla wrote: »

So what if they're biased, the table can be easily checked out. If they are correct, the numbers are shocking!

Either way the title needlessly antagonises which is the point I was raising.

odyssey06 · 12-08-2019 11:31pm

jr86 wrote: »

Yeah i imagine a lot of the younger posters in their teens/early 20s would have little or no recollection as to the level Dublin hurlers were actually at about 12/15 years ago and beyond. And this would skew their perception as to the actual improvement they have made
Its easily the biggest improvement seen in county hurling in my lifetime anyway. Its like expecting Antrim or Carlow nowadays to start competing with top sides regularly and beating them from time to time competitively, and to win a Leinster title and make an All Ireland semi in the 2020s

I dont understand why if Offaly could join the top hurling teams in the 80s and 90s and fall away... Dublin cannot repeat the same feat in the 00s and 10s without eyebrows being raised.

Funding does not explain Offalys rise and fall. It is not necessarily needed to explain Dublins. Arguably given population size the outlier is not Dublins current level but their level in the 00s which was actually much poorer than that of the late 80s and early 90s.

Gachla · 12-08-2019 11:32pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Either way the title needlessly antagonises which is the point I was raising.

It is a bit in fairness but the figures are obscene. I found another one, I think it's from the same person. Again, ignore the title.

ClanofLams · 12-08-2019 11:32pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Either way the title needlessly antagonises which is the point I was raising.

Agreed but the poster clearly said he took it from elsewhere. The data looks right, just based on senior football and hurling results and u-21.

Donnielighto · 12-08-2019 11:34pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I dont understand why if Offaly could join the top hurling teams in the 80s and 90s and fall away... Dublin cannot repeat the same feat in the 00s and 10s without eyebrows being raised.

Funding does not explain Offalys rise and fall. It is not necessarily needed to explain Dublins. Arguably given population size the outlier is not Dublins current level but their level in the 00s which was actually much poorer than that of the late 80s and early 90s.

Occam's Razor.

It is the simplest reason as to why it is Dublin as opposed to any other especially when parallel to the football and the right timeframe to be related to the funding.

RoyalCelt · 12-08-2019 11:36pm

Breaston Plants wrote: »

At the end of the day it's 15 v 15 on the pitch. It's up to others to catch up with them. Fair play to them, best team ever.

It's not though. Unless both teams decide not to use subs. In which case Dublin always have the superior impact in this regard.

Donnielighto · 12-08-2019 11:36pm

Gachla wrote: »

It is a bit in fairness but the figures are obscene. I found another one, I think it's from the same person. Again, ignore the title.

I've said early in the thread, first few posts a big bit about why I think Dublin as as good as they are. It's basically resources (playing numbers and money) better than any combined with planning and management better than most of not the best. The fruits are being seen in the quality of players.

odyssey06 · 12-08-2019 11:39pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

It’s clearly transformative given the previous fifty years of results, two good years aside.
This has been by far and away the best decade for hurling in the last sixty years.
Coincidentally it’s also happening when their footballers are enjoying a period of dominance unparalleled in the history of Dublin football. Both of which are coincidentally happening after a dramatic increase in funding fifteen to twenty years ago.
You must be a big believer in coincidence.

I think Dublin GAA have got their act together and that comes through across the board to get Dublin playing to its potential.

I dont think funding is needed necessarily to explain it. There is no nationwide pattern in the funding table versus county results.

But even if it were true it would probably be a worthy goal of GAA funding to boost another competitive hurling county.

RoyalCelt · 12-08-2019 11:45pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yep 2011 won it against the run of play v Kerry - Kerry pulled up were caught cold momentum shifted

2013 - Although Dublin controlled the game O'Connor's dilly dallying aided Dublin's win

2016 - was delighted with the draw Mayo should defo have won the first game stupid og's keeper mistakes

- in the second game Costello won it with his three points from the bench - thought Dublin deserved it

2017 - if O'connor had got his free instead of hitting the post could easily have been a draw

I honestly cannot see Dublin dominating in five years time.
The quality coming through is just not the same as Fenton, Mannion, McCarthy, Scully, Kilkenny will be in thier 30's - Cluxton will be gone, Rock will likely be gone 34

Nothing lasts forever and all great teams fade.

Well you have the best u20 attacker in the country to add in next year. That Archer lad is a machine. Dublin only need to add 2-3 players to the panel each year and before long another golden Dublin crop will arrive with 5 or 6 players. The numbers playing in the capital is growing, the support they get superior and don't forget you've got the best volunteers in the country!

I know you're still hurt from the days when you got beaten by counties a tenth of your size but those days won't be back. You'll be lucky to lose 1 knock out championship match in the next 10 years. You've only lost 1 in the last 6 and 2 in the last 8. Ridiculous. Young Dublin fans don't know the meaning of pain as a fan.

ClanofLams · 12-08-2019 11:47pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think Dublin GAA have got their act together and that comes through across the board to get Dublin playing to its potential.

I dont think funding is needed necessarily to explain it. There is no nationwide pattern in the funding table versus county results.

But even if it were true it would probably be a worthy goal of GAA funding to boost another competitive hurling county.

Of course the funding table won’t match results directly.

But when you take the biggest population in the country, pump money creating a massive disparity to the extent that it receiving almost thirteen times the funding received to the next biggest population when it only has two and a half times the population and when that county is also taking in massive commercial income which it is rightly re-investing, the outcomes are almost inevitable.

jr86 · 12-08-2019 11:47pm

Dublin haven't even won 5 in a row yet (yes, yes, we all know how 3 weeks time will go!) and already their dominance is one of the biggest talking points online, around water coolers, on the radio etc. today

Goodness knows what it'll be like when they're potentially going for 8, maybe 9 even 10 in a row... or beyond!!

I'm at a loss as to how it can be addressed though. Extreme dominance will essentially kill the game at county level, so something will need to happen. Can't see them split into two. Semis outside Croke Park may be realistic, especially given yesterday's paltry attendance. No idea what else though.

A "Lions" series every summer where they play the pick of the rest of Ireland :pac: , one half hurling, one half football? :pac: capping the number of lads over 20 who are allowed to play

But who knows maybe they'll bring about their own downfall. A players' strike maybe in 7 years

? Maybe then their 3rd string team could be pipped in the final...

RoyalCelt · 12-08-2019 11:48pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fancy having another go at why Dublin aren't dominating Hurling so? Given they've all the same advantages as the footballers?

Dublin footballers went from provincial winners/contenders and occasionally AI contender to utter dominance.

Dublin hurlers went from non leinster contenders to leinster/league champs/contenders. Considering how you did vs KK, galway and Wexford this year I'd put you as all Ireland contenders.

Don't forget that in the 00's you'd struggle to beat the likes of meath. That's why you're not easily winning AI's. Because you came from nowhere. Don't worry though it's only a matter of time.

odyssey06 · 12-08-2019 11:48pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

Occam's Razor.
It is the simplest reason as to why it is Dublin as opposed to any other especially when parallel to the football and the right timeframe to be related to the funding.

Alongside occams razor we must attach the other stand by... Correlation is not necessarily causation. Oftentimes the simplest reason is right. Sometimes it is wrong and sometimes it is part of the equation but not the full picture.

If there is an input of development funding to results on the field it is a weak one, looking at the table for all counties.

batman1 · 12-08-2019 11:49pm

My friend's son plays football in Dublin. He's 14. He has, if he wants, access to strength and conditioning coaching, dietician, sports psychology etc.

He is originally from Donegal. His nephew is 13 and plays in Donegal. He gets a free bus to training and matches. That's it.

12-08-2019 11:50pm

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

jr86 · 12-08-2019 11:51pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Well you have the best u20 attacker in the country to add in next year. That Archer lad is a machine. Dublin only need to add 2-3 players to the panel each year and before long another golden Dublin crop will arrive with 5 or 6 players. The numbers playing in the capital is growing, the support they get superior and don't forget you've got the best volunteers in the country!

I know you're still hurt from the days when you got beaten by counties a tenth of your size but those days won't be back. You'll be lucky to lose 1 knock out championship match in the next 10 years. You've only lost 1 in the last 6 and 2 in the last 8. Ridiculous. Young Dublin fans don't know the meaning of pain as a fan.

Don't write off a few more of that under 20 team peaking later on either

In the 2013 final all of McCaffrey, KK and Mannion were 20. McCaffrey barely touched the ball, KK was game but mainly ineffective, while Mannion came off injured early but his sole contribution till then was balooning a ball into the corner of the hill.

As the saying goes - "look at them now"!!

ToBeFrank123 · 12-08-2019 11:51pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

If it is rotten please explain the corruption that has led it to occur and persist.
Or it isnt rotten.

The GAA took a decision to promote the sports - both codes - in the most competitive environment for sports in the country. Or risk losing out on generations of kids to soccer or rugby.

There are lots of discrepancies in funding between counties and in spinsorship.
Looking at the twitter table it has not affected results on the field significantly. Or we would not expect to see Tyrone in a semi final given they got same funding as Leitrim and half as much as Meath.

There was nothing rotten about it.
If you have information to the contrary please share it.

The whole transparancy around how or why Dublin is funded is clear as mud.

For example we have it from none other than Bertie himself that he started diverting funds from the dept of finance into Dublin gaa in the early 90s when he was minister.

Was this ethical? He used the argument Dublin were weak at the time. But Dublin won 4 In a row in Leinster in the early 90s.

Every urban area in Ireland has issues with participation.

So yes there is something definitely rotten.

gormdubhgorm · 12-08-2019 11:53pm

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

It all comes down to players who happen to be an exceptional generation - sometimes this just happens.
It happened with Ajax in the 70's. 95, and this year.
Now it has happened Dublin.

If finances really made that much difference how come the Dublin hurlers have not won Liam McCarthy?
Who won the minor and u20s in the football this year?
How much money does JP put into Limerick?
Look at the facilities of club Tyrone's centre of excellence world class.

I think people who call Dublin's success 'doping' are not only ignorant of true facts - but insulting to the best team many of us will ever see in our lifetimes.
Frankly I think people who use the term 'Dublin doping' should hang thier heads in shame.

BonnieSituation · 12-08-2019 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

Why don't we investigate why the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Kildare etc haven't done much in nearly a century or why Cork and Galway are disgracefully underachieving given their resources?

They're the true scandals of the GAA.

ToBeFrank123 · 12-08-2019 11:59pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

Why don't we investigate why the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Kildare etc haven't done much in nearly a century or why Cork and Galway are disgracefully underachieving given their resources?

They're the true scandals of the GAA.

Louth won an AI in 1957.
Dublin received 13 times more GDF than Cork despite only 2.5 times the population. There's your reason. They also received a free stadium.

ClanofLams · 13-08-2019 12:01am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

It all comes down to players who happen to be an exceptional generation - sometimes this just happens.
It happened with Ajax in the 70's. 95, and this year.
Now it has happened Dublin.

If finances really made that much difference how come the Dublin hurlers have not won Liam McCarthy?
Who won the minor and u20s in the football this year?
How much money does JP put into Limerick?
Look at the facilities of club Tyrone's centre of excellence world class.

I think people who call Dublin's success 'doping' are not only ignorant of true facts - but insulting to the best team many of us will ever see in our lifetimes.
Frankly I think people who use the term 'Dublin doping' should hang thier heads in shame.

I wouldn’t call it doping but there is no denying the transformative impact massive funding has had. If you read back the thread you will find the answers to your questions.

Dublin haven’t yet won an All Ireland hurling title because they started from a base where they were losing to Westmeath. They have won their first Leinster title in fifty years and their first national hurling league title ever. A Dublin club has won back to back all
Irelands when Dublin clubs had previously won one Leinster club title in their history.

The increase in juvenile success has also been documented earlier in the thread.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:02am

Gachla wrote: »

It's not just the Dublin senior footballers though is it? If it was just them it could be explained away, it's women's football, men's hurling, club football and hurling, underage, basically, Dublin GAA has improved in all areas. This has happened at the same time that Dublin got a huge increase in funding. It can't be just a coincidence? I saw this table on another website, it's not very pretty but it shows the big improvements in Dublin GAA.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

I have said before I would have no problem with Dublin splitting but it would mean that other weaker counties would have to amalgamate.
But some just want thier cake and eat it.
From my point of view what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

jr86 · 13-08-2019 12:02am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

For anyone who REALLY wants to know why Dublin are dominant at the moment

Read this

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0402/1040302-fenton-mccaffrey-kilkenny/

An exceptional group of players in Dublin North and South in 2005 under 12

Where on earth is Mannion on that team? Manager hadn't a clue

y0ssar1an22 · 13-08-2019 12:04am

blanch152 wrote: »

6 different clubs have won this century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Tipperary, six different clubs have won this century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Senior_Hurling_Championship

Thurles Sarsfields with 8 have been more dominant than Ballyboden with seven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Kilkenny it has been seven, with Ballyhale as dominant with seven as Ballyboden in Dublin.

One of the things that most annoys Dublin fans on this forum is the ignorance displayed both about the county team and the clubs within the county. Anyone with a small bit of knowledge about the club hurling scene, or who took five minutes to check wouldn't have posted the above.

If you are going to construct an argument against Dublin, at least get the facts correct, and when it comes to the money, include all the money all of the counties get, and then adjust it per capita.

adjust for the total population of dublin, or the population that can play inter county for dublin? as in disregard the mayo players that live in dublin for example

Strabanimal · 13-08-2019 12:04am

Calling them west brits continuously clearly worked.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:08am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Louth won an AI in 1957.
Dublin received 13 times more GDF than Cork despite only 2.5 times the population. There's your reason. They also received a free stadium.

Wow 1957! They are truly giants of the game. Nothing to worry about with a population of nearly 130,000 and bugger all to show for it.

Cork got a free stadium? I know. Disgraceful.

---

And we put all that money into what exactly? Did the bulk of it go to the Senior Football team (like say, Mayo) or did we invest it in solely elite underage structures (like say, Kerry) or did we ignore the other sports of the GAA (like say Kilkenny) or did we get our shít together and invest all around the county to ensure greater exposure for ALL children to play regardless?

I mean, if I was a neighbouring county I'd be asking for help with trying to sort ourselves out. Wouldn't you? We're clearly good at it.

Tell me this, how much money were GAlway GAA bailed out for? Or Cork?

Why is that money not important?

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:09am

ClanofLams wrote: »

I wouldn’t call it doping but there is no denying the transformative impact massive funding has had. If you read back the thread you will find the answers to your questions.

Dublin haven’t yet won an All Ireland hurling title because they started from a base where they were losing to Westmeath. They have won their first Leinster title in fifty years and their first national hurling league title ever. A Dublin club has won back to back all
Irelands when Dublin clubs had previously won one Leinster club title in their history.

The increase in juvenile success has also been documented earlier in the thread.

Hang on now a minute Dublin had a great collection of hurlers only six years ago when Dalo was in charge - a lensiter tile a league and an AI semi final.
Once that team broke up the core was not replaced.

How can you say finances cause Dublin's success in football then conveniently say it because the hurlers have a low base!?
They arguably should have beaten Cork in 2013 to get to the AI final. (Dwyer got sent off)
By your logic all the money rolling in should have propelled them to the next level?
Did that Cork fella spend it wrong when he was managing the Dublin hurlers after Dalo?

Cuala is an an anomaly of a hurling club in Dublin - Dalkey - they are an oasis surrounded by GAA wasteland.
Dalkey population of just over 8k

Mick Holden was an exception to the rule in the 70's as well.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:13am

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

adjust for the total population of dublin, or the population that can play inter county for dublin? as in disregard the mayo players that live in dublin for example

Really good point.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:14am

Strabanimal wrote: »

Calling them west brits continuously clearly worked.

WE prefer Jackeens

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:15am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wow 1957! They are truly giants of the game. Nothing to worry about with a population of nearly 130,000 and bugger all to show for it.

Cork got a free stadium? I know. Disgraceful.

---

And we put all that money into what exactly? Did the bulk of it go to the Senior Football team (like say, Mayo) or did we incest it in soley elite underage structures (like say, Kerry) or did we ignore the other sports of the GAA (like say Kilkenny) or did we get our shít together and invest all around the county to ensure greater exposure for ALL children to play regardless?

I mean, if I was a neighbouring county I'd be asking for help with trying to sort ourselves out. Wouldn't you? We're clearly good at it.

Tell me this, how much money were GAlway GAA bailed out for? Or Cork?

Why is that money not important?

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county. Dublin received 13 times the funding of Cork. A lot of money to play with.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:15am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county.

Cork weren't bailed out in anyway shape or form? No?

Care to indulge me in anything else I brought up?

Kop On · 13-08-2019 12:18am

ClanofLams wrote: »

Is there any justification for Dublin to receive almost thirteen times what Cork received from ‘07 to ‘18? When the population difference is two and a half times?.

Maybe because Croke Park has been busy bailing the Cork County Board out of a €100 Million bog hole that is the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/pairc-ui-chaoimh-revamp-cost-spirals-over-100m-892010.html

Imagine the mickey fits if Dublin were to try build the equivalent (for 3 or 4 times the cost given location) and got bailed out by Croke Park for it.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:18am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin received a free stadium not Cork. Cork will have huge debts like every other county.

And Dublin's plans for a 25k stadium in the spawell was scuppered by prices in Dublin

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:19am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And Dublin's plans for a 25k stadium in the spawell was scuppered by prices in Dublin

And State-owned NAMA.

blanch152 · 13-08-2019 12:20am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have said before I would have no problem with Dublin splitting but it would mean that other weaker counties would have to amalgamate.
But some just want thier cake and eat it.
From my point of view what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:22am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cork weren't bailed out in anyway shape or form? No?

Care to indulge me in anything else I brought up?

Dublin were bailed out far more. A free stadium handed to them worth at least 300 million to play home games at.
And 13 times the gdf of Cork.

What Cork received was small fry in comparison and a pittance in gdf, crumbs from the GAAs table after Dublin had been well looked after.

The thread is about Dublin by the way.

ClanofLams · 13-08-2019 12:22am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on now a minute Dublin had a great collection of hurlers only six years ago when Dalo was in charge - a lensiter tile a league and an AI semi final.
Once that team broke up the core was not replaced.

How can you say finances cause Dublin's success in football then conveniently say it because the hurlers have a low base!
They arguably should have beaten Cork in 2013 to get to the AI final.
By your logic all the money rolling in should have propelled them to the next level?
Did that Cork fella spend it wrong when he was managing the Dublin hurlers?

Cuala is an an anomaly of a hurling club in Dublin - Dalkey - they are an oasis surrounded by GAA wasteland.
Dalkey population of just over 8k

Mick Holden was an exception to the rule in the 70's as well.

I have never said finances are the sole reason for the success of Dublin football.

It’s simple, Dublin footballers were starting off a base where they were regular Leinster champions and all Ireland contenders or not far off it. Dublin hurlers were starting off a base where they were getting beaten by fifteen by Offaly and knocked out by Westmeath.

Strabanimal · 13-08-2019 12:23am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

WE prefer Jackeens

That's how we've went wrong. The dominance will soon stop now.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:25am

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

Haha. No one I know in Kerry or Mayo want Dublin split.
I for one don't want that.

I do want a serious investigation into and reallocation of Dublins gdf so everyone is on a relatively level playing field.

STB. · 13-08-2019 12:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not good for football to see such dominance, be that by Dublin or Kerry or whatever. In fact, it's awfully boring, and most of us can acknowledge that the best games have been with genuinely competitive rivals- e.g. Meath v. Dublin in the late 80s/early 90s. Likewise with Kilkenny in hurling - absolutely awful and a sharp contrast to the superb hurling competition of the late 1990s. Both sports were reborn because of that rivalry.

My aim would be to divide Dublin up in a way which maximises the rivalry, and avoids the current David v. Goliath stuff.

If Dublin were to be divided into 4 or 5 county teams, what would be the best divisions? Fingal has a very distinctive and ancient history to support a separate team, but how good would it be? Geographically it looks massive in the map below, so could it be two 'county' teams?

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown would be unwieldy as a county name, but what sort of boundaries could be made in that area?

Yeah, "your aim" wont be happening, because the results are not suiting.

The solution is for your county's team to up their standards. Not devise a handicap system.

They sure as shít were not suggesting this when Kerry won the All Ireland in 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986.

Conversely, nobody gave a shít about Dublin as long as they were not winning All Irelands between 1995 and 2011, despite having the population advantage.

There is no direct correlation between development funding and the success of the current Dublin squad. The whole idea of development funding was to get more kids playing the game and not soccer, rugby, athletics, boxing, and other sports. And to get them sticking at it.

This current Dublin team are all amateurs with day jobs (just google them). Off the top of my head 3 of them are the sons of previous Dublin players. There is nothing "doped" about them. They put a lot of effort and make a lot of personal concessions into conditioning themselves to be that good. Of course no amount of conditioning will make a winning machine unless there is talent there, but its a start.

Through proper management which had been sadly lacking for some time, the results are finally coming Dublins way.

Stop making excuses for your own County. I see that one of the main protagonists in this thread is from a County that hadn't had a footballing All Star since 2003, prior to last year. That County not being a small one either. To that person I'd say, stop looking for excuses. Look closer to home for your solutions. You wont find it by whinging about others.

There are 15 men on the pitch at any one time. Make sure your 15 are up to scratch. It avoids whinging after the event. The solution is one thing and one thing only. A period of dominance in GAA is nothing new. Start playing at a higher level. Thats what the Dubs had to do between 1995 and 2011 and in the 80s when Kerry won all around them. We didn't have mass hysteria.

BonnieSituation · 13-08-2019 12:27am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin were bailed out far more. A free stadium handed to them worth at least 300 million to play home games at.
And 13 times the gdf of Cork.

What Cork received was small fry in comparison and a pittance in gdf, crumbs from the GAAs table after Dublin had been well looked after.

The thread is about Dublin by the way.

How was the stadium "Handed to us"? We don't own it. But we do pay tax in Dublin too. so I'm sure we made some sort of contribution to the funding of it.

Also, the other CBs in Leinster and around the country voted to have us play in CP rather than Parnell on so many occasions that it's beyond belief that you're now peddling the line that we were handed a Stadium like West Ham United.

I suppose it's as good as any of the other brutal arguments you've been dragging the arsé out of for the last while.

And it's also strange that you find the financial mismanagement of PUC and the Cork CBs current indebtedness funny and a badge of honour, but sure, big bad Dublin get everything handed to them.

The difference is we have a competent CB so the returns are soooo much better.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2019 12:28am

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely, there is a small minority of Kerry and Mayo people pushing the splitting agenda, because they want a clear run at an All-Ireland and don't want to have to raise their game. Amalgamating other counties to make them stronger wouldn't help them. They are afraid of a Sligo/Leitrim or a Clare/Limerick winning a provincial championship and denying them an annointed All-Ireland.

Until compulsory amalgamations are on the table, it is clear that the split Dublin agenda is being driven by jealousy and bitterness rather than a desire to make the competition competitive.

A root-and-branch reform of the county structure with every option on the table, and the only aim being to make it more competitive is the only acceptable way to address this issue.

If there is ever amalgamations Galway - Mayo one would have would half the AI's since 96 - to now. Simple to mix Mayo Backs mostly - Galway forwards mostly

Anyway I think is insulting to this current group of Dublin players that quacks use the phrase 'doping'(robbed from a French soccer manager) without a real discussion of the facts.

When Dublin get a poor manager the sighs of relief and sniggering will start again from certain quarters.

ToBeFrank123 · 13-08-2019 12:29am

STB. wrote: »

Yeah, "your aim" wont be happening.

The solution is for your county's team to up their standards. Not devise a handicap system.

They sure as **** were not suggesting this when Kerry won the All Ireland in 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986.

Conversely, nobody gave a **** about Dublin as long as they were not winning All Irelands between 1995 and 2011, despite having the population advantage.

There is no direct correlation between development funding and the current Dublin squad. The whole idea of development funding was to get more kids playing the game and not soccer, rugby, athletics, boxing, and other sports. And to get them sticking at it.

This current Dublin team are all amateurs with day jobs (just google them). Off the top of my head 3 of them are the sons of previous Dublin players. There is nothing "doped" about them. They put a lot of effort and make a lot of personal concessions into conditioning themselves to be that good. Of course no amount of conditioning will make a winning machine unless there is talent there, but its a start.

Through proper management which had been sadly lacking for some time, the results are finally coming their way.

Stop making excuses for your own County. I see that one of the main protagonists in this thread is from a County that hadn't had an footballing All Star since 2003, prior to last year. That County not being a small one either. To that person I'd say, stop looking for excuses. Look closer to home for your solutions.

There are 15 men on the pitch at any one time. Make sure your 15 are up to scratch. It avoids whinging after the event. The solution is one thing and one thing only. Start playing at a higher level.

Ah the old 15 against 15 argument.
And the get your house in order line.

Its like Man City telling Swindon Town to get their house in order, 11 v 11 and so on.

Laughable.

You also don't seem to understand what financial doping means or the impact it has on fair competition.

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