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Irish Promotions Thread *Please read post 1* (*Mod Warning Post #3947)

19091939596

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    ThePott wrote: »
    It'll be a very different scene when things open up again.

    It will, however the scene always changes.
    Sure ten years ago it was DCW and Main stage. Both gone along with so many guys leaving wrestling. Before that it was CPW, IWW and Nwa Ireland. All gone and lads gone.

    Really is a high turn over in wrestling over the near 20 years the Irish scene has existed. Way it goes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭showpony1


    ShagNastii wrote: »
    I’d cynically say that OTT had peaked well before the pandemic.


    The peak for me was the more over 18s style monthly Tivoli shows.

    You could probably argue the Devlin/Walter feud from Suir road was the best era but became more family friendly and less of a must go to for me after that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭ThePott


    It will, however the scene always changes
    Oh for sure, peaks and valleys and all that. Be interesting to see is all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭rizzla




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭oneilla


    The Live Performance Support scheme list of grantees was released today. No sign of any wrestling company here surely someone could have put on an outdoor show?

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a21c2-minister-martin-announces-recipients-of-funding-under-live-performance-support-scheme-lpss-2021/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Galway Pro Wrestling Training


    Hi All,

    Fri 20th, Sat 21st & Sun 22nd August

    3 Day Pro Wrestling Training Camp for beginners in Galway City.

    For full info please drop us a private message.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    I dunno if you guys are following the OTT stuff on Twitter but what an absolute dumpsterfire. After making vague promises about cleaning up the scene, they bang out a statement that basically says they'll book anyone so long as they haven't been criminally prosecuted. Great. On top of that this wayward gang continue to attack fans that disagree with their policy on social media.

    The sheen has well and truly worn off, the feel good story took a twist over a year ago and turned into a horror, as someone whose attended a lot of OTT shows over the years and travelled a lot to watch them I can safely say I'd never go to another, I could not justify supporting a company who have done nothing real to clean up a dirty scene, which was largely of their own making.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I dunno if you guys are following the OTT stuff on Twitter but what an absolute dumpsterfire. After making vague promises about cleaning up the scene, they bang out a statement that basically says they'll book anyone so long as they haven't been criminally prosecuted. Great. On top of that this wayward gang continue to attack fans that disagree with their policy on social media.

    The sheen has well and truly worn off, the feel good story took a twist over a year ago and turned into a horror, as someone whose attended a lot of OTT shows over the years and travelled a lot to watch them I can safely say I'd never go to another, I could not justify supporting a company who have done nothing real to clean up a dirty scene, which was largely of their own making.

    I dont wanna see the likes of "for example" Jordan Devlin, Jimmy Havoc, David Starr, V. Dream, Jack Gallagher etc....

    The mud sticks and I have no desire to see the likes of them again. There is no shortage of talent, so why push ahead with these guys (I dunno who they are planning to book yet).

    Plenty of talent to book that havent been accused of horrible actions that can fill a show.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    It's an interesting topic raised....
    On one side, if any fan of OTT gets turned off by the promotion using said wrestlers again then that's ok. Perfectly fine that they do not wish to watch / buy merch / support OTT in any way. No one owes anyone anything. So BreakerJoe and LineOfBeauty no one can tell you otherwise.

    On another side, the general "feeling" within OTT (fellow wrestlers) could be that wrestler x (whoever) said his side and he was believed.

    Joe, who it ultimately comes down to, may share the same as above (wrestler x's side is believed) and books them. Feeling that they are a good worker and add value to OTT being booked on a show. That's his choice.

    Some fans will be disgusted. Some fans will believe that wrestler x is innocent and some fans won't care either way.

    Not so black and white I guess :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    It's an interesting topic raised....
    On one side, if any fan of OTT gets turned off by the promotion using said wrestlers again then that's ok. Perfectly fine that they do not wish to watch / buy merch / support OTT in any way. No one owes anyone anything. So BreakerJoe and LineOfBeauty no one can tell you otherwise.

    On another side, the general "feeling" within OTT (fellow wrestlers) could be that wrestler x (whoever) said his side and he was believed.

    Joe, who it ultimately comes down to, may share the same as above (wrestler x's side is believed) and books them. Feeling that they are a good worker and add value to OTT being booked on a show. That's his choice.

    Some fans will be disgusted. Some fans will believe that wrestler x is innocent and some fans won't care either way.

    Not so black and white I guess :pac:

    Im a firm believer in just because someone is accused doesn't make them guilty.

    Devlin, for example, has been accused of some horrible things. Ive no idea if its true or not.

    But the mud does stick, I cant enjoy him anymore and yes its probably unfair to Devlin, but its the reality. I dont wanna see him.

    If others wanna watch him, good for them and Im glad they are happy. I just cant.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Im a firm believer in just because someone is accused doesn't make them guilty.

    Devlin, for example, has been accused of some horrible things. Ive no idea if its true or not.

    But the mud does stick, I cant enjoy him anymore and yes its probably unfair to Devlin, but its the reality. I dont wanna see him.

    If others wanna watch him, good for them and Im glad they are happy. I just cant.

    Totally understand.
    For full transparency I probably shouldn't have said "Not so black and white I guess" but "everyone will think different" - that was my intention if there was any cross-wires. Some will have an issue & some wont type of deal.

    As I said in my first post, if anyone doesn't want to go to a show because wrestler x is on the show then that's perfectly fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I think each siutuation with these wrestlers is different and I feel Im a tad hypocritical in some respects.

    I firmly believe that if a wrestler has doen wrong, accepts that they are wrong and genuinely tries to learn, apologise and make amends then they probably deserve forgiveness.

    I may be wrong, but take Scrull for example. I think he has somewhat tried to accept his actions were wrong and apologised to a degree. If he is genuinely remorseful and accepting he has done wrong he probably deserves forgivenness. I am open to correction on my account btw as its ages ago and may be remembering things badly.

    However, its hard to watch him the same way. Its hard to shake the feeling I see when I read about him.

    Devlin is different, if I remember correctly he denied his wrong doings and hasnt addressed them since if my memory serves me right. Now he may be innocent, but the stink if the accusation wont leave him for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Does anyone know if emerald wrestling promotions are still going?
    Not sure if they are Irish


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    cena wrote: »
    Does anyone know if emerald wrestling promotions are still going?
    Not sure if they are Irish

    Haven't ran a show since 2013.

    https://www.cagematch.net/?id=8&nr=994&page=4


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭showpony1


    Sad to see lads like LJ Cleary getting abuse on twitter for returning to OTT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Why's that? Cause of the whole speak out issue or something? (i cant remember :p )



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    Had to come up with a new account after the switch over. Anyway was at the OTT show on Sunday in Belfast.

    First live anything really in almost two years. It was a rush of feelings when the show kicked off. I been to OTT in the europa before, obvs things were different now. We got there for 3:30, most of the seats were gone. We stood at the door for a good bit waiting for someone to check our tickets. There was a lot of staff around, but no one seem bothered. A lad came over and said he get someone to check us in. After waiting a another bit, we just walked in as other people were jumping ahead of us and getting the last few seats. So next times lads, don't worry about buying a ticket as loads of spare chairs at the back, just rock on in. Delighted with our seat and nice not to have everyone on top of each other.

    We kicked off with Martina vs B Cool in a blindfold hardcore match. Great way to start the show really fun match. There was few others matches but noting worth talking about. Except Charlie Sterling was over and my indifference to Timothy Thatcher goes on.

    Raven Creed Vs. Sammii Jayne was non title and had a weak finish to set up what looks like a hard core match next month.

    Kings of the North vs Paddy M and mystery Partner. Kings were very over, despite them suppose to be the heels. Paddy partner was so lad called Ravey-D or something like that. His a Scottish version of "Lads from the flats" type. The match was going well until the end. Paddy M was going to use the belt behind the Ref Back. But corvin stopped him, then Corvin used the belt on Paddy M in front of the Ref for a DQ win. There were a few of these finishes on the show. Clearly with the reduced roster they need to do a lot of rematches for next month. I get why there doing it, but it does take away from the show having too many screwy finishes.

    Joel Redman Vs Omari. Was suppose to be Joel Vs Haskins for the belt, Haskins got coivd sadly but Omari was a great replacement for him. I heard Omari is leaving wrestling so nice to see him before he goes.

    They announce the next show, Haskins was in the video but not a 100 per cent sure he be there, depends how the coivd hits him. A wrestler from NJPW was announce for the show, I no idea who he was as don't follow NJPW but the people there seem happy he was coming and nice to see international talent back on the show.

    Main Event was LJ Cleary vs. Adam "Flex". LJ still rocking the more than hype gear. I thought the group was done, so maybe a change is needed for him? The match itself was great and LJ & Flex impressed in the main event spot. Only downside was the screwy finish, which they did to set up the rematch for next month.

    It was great to back and any problems I had it's down to the way things are at the minute which is not OTT fault. They did the best they could and gladly go to the next show if I could afford. It's does look like Belfast will be the base for the rest of the year with the way things are going at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    Great show last night from OTT. Writing this on my phone , so forgive any mistakes.

    Things didn't start great. Arrived to venue at 5. I had gotten the early access tickets as the only ones that were left. It meant we were suppose to go in at 5.45.

    No venue or OTT staff, there was one queue and no one knew how the early access was going to work. Getting closer to 5.45 people started showing up and going to top of the queue. So everyone just went to the top of the queue. Big mob of people on top of each other with no social distance possible

    At 6.20, Joe comes out and start scanning tickets. It was a rush to get in. I don't know if anyone from OTT reads this but it won't be hardest thing to have a someone stand at the door and go, gold tickets to the left and general tickets to the right. The tickets cost 50 euro and the only benefit you get for the extra money is to get in early. Waiting over an hour and still had to push past people who only just showed up and probably had general tickets. Managed to get second row seats after everything.

    Been to the Belfast shows, but you can't beat the dublin shows. The night made up for the mess with the tickets. First half good fun, second half the main matches. Martina won the GN Title in a cracking triple threat. LJ finished the feud with Flex and moving onto the world title. Osprey & Aussie Open was great fun against Scotty davis & NJPW lads.

    The whole show was dedicated to Ryan Smile. After the match Osprey gave a touching tribute to his friend and genuine moving moment.

    Tickets still in sale for the mini show today and the 7th anniversary show the end of the month.

    Before those shows be both sold out by now. Not sure if running two shows in one month has hurt business, or the fact is basically the same roster or other reasons.

    I got tickets for the next one, I got stage seats so don't have to worry about another ticket fiasco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Continuing to use Scotty Davis appears to be a reason why some arent going back to OTT.

    The mud sticks whether right or wrong in this day anf age.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,951 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    Dedicating the show to Ryan Smile, with all that he was accused of before he passed is probably not the wisest either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I didnt hear that part. Jeez.

    The whole seen was crushed by the Speakingout Movement and the buzz is absolutely gone. Twitter had very little about the show, allegedly not sold out too.

    Using guys like Davis and Devlin , plus the alleged trolling in burner accounts by Joe have not painted a good picture.

    Sad end to what was once the must see company on the Indys of all of Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Davy05


    Anyone who was there would hardly call it the "sad end"... place was packed and buzzing as usual. I think a lot more people want to act like the show is over than actually believe it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    Just in from OTT, second Dublin show in one month. Place was packed. Few people dressed up. Best one was the guy dressed as the rock from that picture of him in the 90s with the fanny pack.

    We were seating in the stage section. For some reason the wrestlers sat beside us.

    We had Paul Tracey, Paddy M, Maxer and more. They were chatting away during the matches, having a great laugh and breaking any sort of kayfabe.

    Angel Cruz was at the side of the stage too, hopefully a sign of him coming back and biggest star of them all, OSW Jay Hunter was in the crowd. Seem a top bloke.

    From the first half Justin Daniels winning a six man tag match, that became a triple threat match between the winning team to get a MLW title shot. A whole paragraph just to explain the concept of the match.

    Fun comedy match with B Cool & J against Aussie Open. Team B cool win by DQ.

    Big Damo against Thatcher next. Damo looked great and was over. If Damo is sticking around could be someone OTT could use in a prominent position.

    Second half started off with the women tag match. It was a bit random. Debbie Ketiel & Raven Creed made some effort in being a tag team. Session Moth who just won the Gender Neutral title and super over with the crowd had to team up with the womens champ Jayne who's a heel, for no reason. Seemingly that they just wanted to put all the women in one match.

    The Belfast show I went to a couple of months ago seem to set up Raven against Jayne in a hardcore match. We never got that match and would had fitted in great here. You could had done Moth against Debbie with someone else, as a triple threat for the GN title.

    Instead we got this ok tag match and at the end all four women fought each other, so maybe setting up a four way at the next show?

    Osprey Vs. Scotty Davis. The story of the match was, could the young upstart get one over on his more experienced opponent to win the big one. The ending being the veteran winning but only by an inch and despite losing the upstart earns the veteran respect.

    In the main event you had exactly the same story with Hawkins against LJ Clearly. It was bizarre doing these matches back to back.

    The atmosphere for Osprey/Davis was off the charts and the match was great. Hawkins/Clearly couldn't compete.

    Also Paddy M and the wrestlers at this stage were getting loud with there banter was taking away from the show. Of course I didn't have the neck to say anything to them.

    With LJ not winning it was a damp ending, especially for an anniversary show and no clear direction of what next for the company.

    Next show was announced for December 4. But not show title or talent announced.

    Kings of the north weren't on this show. At the last Dublin show they did a run in at the end of a match and that was it. There working the Belfast show tomorrow so there not hurt and for a anniversary show it would make sense to have them on tonight.

    It was overall a good show but think we need to start getting a sense of direction. Know there only getting back on their feet, but hopefully a star or a strong storyline will emerge soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭montyrebel


    ospreay vs davis sponsored by metoo and speakingout



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭ThePott


    Phoenix have put their most recent show online, took place on the 23rd of October.

    Didn't post notes like I usually do cause I knew this was being recorded, didn't know it would be up for free though which is great!

    Was an awesome show and the Limerick crowd were amazing!

    Going through the card, we have two tag title semi-finals between Rock Shandy (Clayton Long and Martin Steers) vs. Team Titanic (JDP and Jordy). The other one unfortunately became a handicap match between Saviors of Destiny (Owen Richards and Andy Steel) and Justin Daniels.

    We had two singles matches Billy Bedlam vs Matt Skyler. Deano Power vs Sean Donn.

    Lots of title matches as well. The Titanic Championship was defended by Luther Valentine taking on Steven Carvel.

    We had a Fourway match to be the first Hard Knox Hardcore Champion between Butch Armstrong, Jay (Worker Name: Danny Cross), J-Money and Session Moth Martina. Unreal confrontation at the end of this one too.

    Finally, the first ever Phoenix champion was crowned in a 4-way between Steve Savage, Riordan O'Connor, LJ Cleary and Justy.

    Again, full disclosure I did the ring announcing on the show but I've been plugging their shows and posting my notes long before that cause I love supported my local (even if they're in Limerick now 😜). Check it out if you're looking for some Irish wrestling.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Sirsok


    Caught up with Joe Cabray to talk all things Scrappermania and OTT.

    Full interview on KCLR 96fm on air and online at 5.30 today

    https://scoreline.ie/scrappermania-the-irish-wrestling-event-of-the-year-returns/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭rizzla




  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭jo187


    RVD added to the ott stadium show in March. Tickets still on sale , so maybe RVD a last ditch attempt to sell it out? Still 50/50 about going myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Davy05


    Stadium shows are always a blast! I highly recommend going if anyone gets the opportunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Went to the OTT show last night and sold me on going to scrapper!

    not a huge crowd by any sense, but really good atmosphere

    opener of LJ clearly and the OJMO was superb

    and a main even if J & BCool against Aussie Open (which is on for scrapper but last night due to travel issues with other talent)

    Devlin announced for scrapper got a bigger pop than I expected, considering..


    Phoenix at home in a March, and then a scrapper a week later!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    How do you feel about the lads of speaking out fame being included on the cards?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    i was very surprised Devlin was brought back into OTT, and the level of support that announcement got was.. unnerving?..

    considering the moves OTT seemed to make when speaking out happened especially.


    But the vast majority of the talent were there aren’t touched by it and I’m more than happy to support them with merch etc.

    wont be going near Devlin or Davis personally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I can only speak as someone looking from the outside in but OTT didn't close the door on Jordan, and more importantly, WWE didn't give him the sack. So maybe the woman who accused him was spoofing? That Jordan could prove that or at least convince he was innocent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    They didnt close the door on Davis, who more or less admitted he did got violent, just that he was justified due to his claims that he was cheated on.

    Either way, the mud sticks whether verifiable or not. I can't watch Devlin anymore.

    Just because OTT or WWE continue to work for them isnt an indication they were innocent or the women are spoofing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I dunno, it's a hard one to call. All I do know is that Jordan isn't exactly making WWE millions of dollars. He's only NXT UK. Could sack him tomorrow and no loss from their end. So logical conclusion is they simply don't care or they gave him the benefit of the doubt from discussions he had with them. Which of course is the ultimate question.

    Just because someone says something does not make it true. I don't know the woman. She wouldn't be the first woman to come forward and tell the truth nor would she be the first to tell a lie. What does seem to be is that WWE and OTT are not holding it against him.

    But with all that you are perfectly within your right to not want to see him anymore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    They've basically doubled down on their stance. That's what this show proves. They know the Twitter fans that supported them in the past aren't gonna go anymore, with that you get this total lack of buzz. So if those people aren't going anyway, might as well try to get the other fans for whom Devlin and Davis may have some cache.

    Personally I wouldn't be caught dead at an OTT show again and the lineup is naff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    The 4 way on scrapper could be superb

    the rest of the card is.. eh?

    next Phoenix show in limerick looks pretty good too, theyve got some nice talent with that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Even the level of American talent has taken a massive plunge.


    They had Mox scheduled for a show before speaking out. Now they have a well past their sell by date RVD and Scott Too Hot Taylor being the mainstream draw.

    Says it all about where they are now.

    From a business perspective they really have taken the wrong option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭Davy05


    I think 2 years of the pandemic wiping out their income has more to do with it than anything said on twitter tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    I'd almost prefer they didn't use US talent if possible


    they've a lot of quality homegrown talent they can use



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    A lot of homegrown talent have left and quit wrestling altogether



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Sadly that always happens. Crazy when you think that the Irish wrestling scene is going 20 years now with Nwa Ireland being the first, then iww in 2004, cpw in 2005, main stage in 2010 etc. All those wrestlers, all those lads who fizzled and quit.

    It's something that never gets spoken about on here. I guess because those who post have never been involved or never knew people who have. But wrestling on the Indies sucks lol. So many just get sick of it. The usual stuff always gets mentioned: backstabbing, egos, politics (even on a low level indy!), cliques, two facedness, Mark promoters, ah could go on.

    Then there's the in ring stuff. Guys who won't want to take anything however have no issue throwing 95% offense on you. Guys who sandbag you on everything. Guys who will try to take the head off you with the likes of an enzguri kick to make themselves look good. But how dare you be snug in response. All this and you're not even getting paid or barely if you're lucky.

    No wonder so many have quit over the years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭NITRO95


    Yea none of that is the reason a group of talented Irish wrestlers quit in 2020 but nice try at deflection



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    What? What deflection?

    In case your peepers aren't too sharp I talked about the Irish wrestling scene over the last 20 years and all the lads who just fizzled. Then mentioned what the reality of the scene is like. Everything that just comes with it as a whole.

    How did I deflect? In fact, what are you even talking about? You said 2020 then don't even add anything to it as to what YOU think why.

    Covid? Me too movement? Ott is terrible? You randomly said I was deflecting so what then?


    Jesus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,137 ✭✭✭endainoz


    I'd say they were referring to the me too stuff, it's unfortunate the way things went for OTT and the UK and Ireland scene in general. I'm unfamiliar with the Scotty Davis stuff but haven't heard anything with regard to an arrest or anything, no doubt he could be a piece of sh1t and very unlikeable though, the same goes for Devlin to be fair.

    I have no involvement in the scene, no doubt many on this thread are and probably know the proper stories as opposed to just hearsay, but I had also noticed a lot of negative thoughts toward OTT we'll before the metoo stuff so there's a good chance the Irish bitterness is alive and well, even in such a small scene.

    I do hope OTT succeeds though, scrappermania 5 was the best indie show I've ever watched and my favorite show since one night stand 2005. It opened up a world that I had very little knowledge of. I think it's great that they have opened the wrestling school again and like that they will be focussing more on home grown talent as opposed to relying on imports. The odd surprise would be nice though. I recently subscribed to ottondemand again, happy to support them and hope this event goes well for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Nitro95 was by all accounts a top supporter of OTT. The man would affectionately tell all he saw about how good OTT was and why. So there is no 'Irish bitterness' from him. Regarding myself, while I never caught one live I always regret not being able to make shows due to one reason or another, but I rarely heard a bad word about OTT pre speaking out.

    The fact is, loads of young talent quit out of near disgust of how toxic the Irish wrestling is. Imagine how bad it made them feel that they had to walk away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,137 ✭✭✭endainoz


    That's fair enough, but the company are trying to rebuild and I think they need support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    They probably wont get it with the likes of Devlin and Davis on their cards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,137 ✭✭✭endainoz


    What kind of a reception do you reckon they'll get? Probably serious heat I'd imagine



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    I don't care about what reaction they get.

    They lost a lot of support from continuing to use these guys, they've lost young talent.... at the end of the day, is it worth it to push ahead with using these guys considering the damage its doing?



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