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Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

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24567…334

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    #32
    GTR63
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,469 ✭✭✭✭GTR63


    garhjw wrote: »
    They improve your strength, power, conditioning and endurance so I would disagree. If Benoit wasn't juiced up he couldn't have performed the same way.

    I think he could have as far as endurance goes he worked what 30/40 minutes at most its hardly unachieveable if he's clean, the strength thing makes no sense as the wrestlers help each other bumping.
    Benoit like most Wrestlers took it to get noticed and stand out from the crusierweight crowd same as Eddie did I doubt he did it to improve ability. I didn't notice Chris Masters or Edge going through the floor when they went clean, quite the opposite happened actually.


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    #33
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    You can't say that taking Performance Enhancing Drugs doesn't improve performance. Thatscwhat they do. They don't just make you look better.


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    #34
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    So this is now the Daniel Bryan/Benoit/Steroids thread?!


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    #35
    ShagNastii
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    I think the fact many Irish fans hold Davitt in a much much much much higher regard than Sheamus is a bit petty.

    The guy is the first Irish WWE champ. When you think of the days of Hogan, UW and Bret Hart, the fact that we've had one of our own at the top of the WWE is huge.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    97 /98 might not have been a vintage year, but still a lot better than we are being fed today.

    97 was a great year in the WWF.

    I'm not going by nostalgia either. I re watched the whole year a few months ago and enjoyed it just as much as I did back then.


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    #37
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    ShagNastii wrote: »

    The guy is the first Irish WWE champ. When you think of the days of Hogan, UW and Bret Hart, the fact that we've had one of our own at the top of the WWE is huge.

    That's true but it's also a diluted accomplishment nowadays. In the 80's and 90's, only the top stars got the top strap. Hennig didnt get it, Neither did Rude or Scott Hall. Now that theres two belts, its not as big a deal. Sheamus wouldn't be touching the top brass (yet anyway) if there was only one top title.

    Miz has been WWE Champion. That tells you all you need to know really.


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    #38
    Riddle101
    Registered Users Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Ando's Saggy Bottom wrote: »
    Were Benoit's New Japan matches really aul that great? The ones that get pimped the most are the 94 and 95 J Cup matches which by the very nature of the tournament tend to be rather rushed affairs. The stuff Bryan did with Aries, Nigel, Joe, Ki, Morishima, Gibson, Strong on the Indies is a far better and deeper body of work IMHO.

    Well He got a 5 star rating from the observer, for his match with Great Sasuke in 1994(And yes it was during the Super J Cup). Not saying that that's the only thing to go by. But I think his work in Japan is nothing to be dismissive about either. At least when comparing it to Bryan's indy work.
    rossie1977 wrote: »
    yes he did but bryan won it in 2005 and 2006 when benoit was still active which to me suggests alot of folks back then had bryan better than benoit

    Well I guess it depends on the body of work the wrestler does each year. Benoit didn't have any outstanding matches or fueds in those years, but Bryan did. Maybe he just wasn't up to giving it his all, like in the past. He did have to deal with nagging injuries, and he was 38/39 as well.
    in fairness to low ki, homicide they were not on the same level as the likes of eddie, jericho or angle in 2000-02

    Fair enough, but he still had great wrestlers to work with though. Good enough to put on some clinics.
    bryan so far in his wwe run has not been allowed showcase even a fraction of his overall in-ring talent, he was booked very weak until about late 2011, the only long singles ppv matches he has had since last year have all been superb vs sheamus at extreme rules and punk at otl/mitb, also that tlc match in december was a classic and he played a huge part in that

    I know it's a shame he get's restricted. But if Punk/Cena can have a great match in this day and age, then i'm sure it's only a matter of time before we see one from Bryan.


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    #39
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    Well He got a 5 star rating from the observer, for his match with Great Sasuke in 1994(And yes it was during the Super J Cup). Not saying that that's the only thing to go by. But I think his work in Japan is nothing to be dismissive about either. At least when comparing it to Bryan's indy work.
    Not dismissing Benoit or his work at all. As I said earlier I've always rated him as the best ever in-ring until recently deciding Bryan is even better. None of that is an insult to Benoit, more snap indication of how stunningly good Bryan has become.


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    #40
    gnfnrhead
    Registered Users Posts: 12,478 ✭✭✭✭gnfnrhead


    ShagNastii wrote: »
    I think the fact many Irish fans hold Davitt in a much much much much higher regard than Sheamus is a bit petty.

    The guy is the first Irish WWE champ. When you think of the days of Hogan, UW and Bret Hart, the fact that we've had one of our own at the top of the WWE is huge.

    That's not petty. Devitt is simply a far better wrestler than Sheamus.

    Besides that, Sheamus should never have won the WWE title, he wasnt ready but was work out buddies with Triple H so got pushed to the moon regardless. Devitt meanwhile has worked his way up based on his ability and ability alone. He'll be competing for the IWGP title within a year or so. At this point in time, the biggest title in all of Japan. I'd put it as the top title in wrestling today but thats personal preference. Winning a watered down title because you're buddies with the future boss isnt that great of an achievement. As has been mentioned, Miz has held the same title.
    garhjw wrote: »
    They improve your strength, power, conditioning and endurance so I would disagree. If Benoit wasn't juiced up he couldn't have performed the same way.

    Scott Steiner was a very talented wrestler. Then he went the steroid route. His conditioning and endurance among others went to shite. Steiner is lucky to last 10 minutes these days. To tie into my next example, in 2002 Steiner was more roided up than ever and was dead on his feet after five minutes at the Royal Rumble. Based on your logic, the opposite should be true.

    His opponent that night is my other example. Triple H. He was getting better and better but once he went the steroid route he gradually got worse. Had some of his best years, then steroids, then some of his worst years. Davey Boy Smith as well to show it isnt just those two. Could keep going and going but I think the point has been proven. All of them sacrificed ability for look.

    Also, to prove it isnt a one way street, Chris Masters went the opposite way. He improved massively after ditching the steroids. He didnt look as good, but he was easily 10 times the wrestler.

    Steroids make you look better, but they sure as hell dont help your performance. The only thing they might do is help with injuries. Saying a wrestler on steroids is better is completely wrong.


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    #41
    Jason Todd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Jason Todd


    This was my random thought today, I loved the Hurricane gimmick and thought Helms was a very good worker. Thought he should have been around tv for longer.


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    #42
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    gnfnrhead wrote: »
    That's not petty. Devitt is simply a far better wrestler than Sheamus.

    Besides that, Sheamus should never have won the WWE title, he wasnt ready but was work out buddies with Triple H so got pushed to the moon regardless. Devitt meanwhile has worked his way up based on his ability and ability alone. He'll be competing for the IWGP title within a year or so. At this point in time, the biggest title in all of Japan. I'd put it as the top title in wrestling today but thats personal preference. Winning a watered down title because you're buddies with the future boss isnt that great of an achievement. As has been mentioned, Miz has held the same title.



    Scott Steiner was a very talented wrestler. Then he went the steroid route. His conditioning and endurance among others went to shite. Steiner is lucky to last 10 minutes these days. To tie into my next example, in 2002 Steiner was more roided up than ever and was dead on his feet after five minutes at the Royal Rumble. Based on your logic, the opposite should be true.

    His opponent that night is my other example. Triple H. He was getting better and better but once he went the steroid route he gradually got worse. Had some of his best years, then steroids, then some of his worst years. Davey Boy Smith as well to show it isnt just those two. Could keep going and going but I think the point has been proven. All of them sacrificed ability for look.

    Also, to prove it isnt a one way street, Chris Masters went the opposite way. He improved massively after ditching the steroids. He didnt look as good, but he was easily 10 times the wrestler.

    Steroids make you look better, but they sure as hell dont help your performance. The only thing they might do is help with injuries. Saying a wrestler on steroids is better is completely wrong.

    Over simplistic way of looking at it. Wrestlers such as Steiner and HHH just went for muscle mass, they didnt put any effort into cardio. PEDs allow youto train harder for longer and to operate at maximum for longer. There are plenty of other PEDs, not just steroids - HGH etc. there are plenty of smaller wrestlers out there using PEDs to improve performance.

    Clearly you have a different opinion but you are saying that PEDs don't improve performance. Why are they called PEDs then?

    Apologies I don't want to side track the thread.....


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    #43
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    Why do we have to put one of Seamus or Fergal down in order to say something nice about the other? Can we not just be happy we have two guys doing so well for themselves in the two biggest and best promotions around? Jaysus like.


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    #44
    Clemantis
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Clemantis


    Ando's Saggy Bottom wrote: »
    Why do we have to put one of Seamus or Fergal down in order to say something nice about the other? Can we not just be happy we have two guys doing so well for themselves in the two biggest and best promotions around? Jaysus like.
    This. Also, the styles of wrestling they engage in are so different, its like comparing apples to oranges.


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    #45
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    Ando's Saggy Bottom wrote: »

    I used to think Benoit was the greatest wrestler ever in terms of ring work but now I firmly believe D Bryan is better and has ten times the personality thrown in. Not a statement I make lightly but he's just so so good. I went absolutely mental for his crazy destruction of the Shield on Smackdown. He's almost perfect.

    A few more performances like last night and everyone will be saying this.


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    #46
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    It amazes me that it is takes the likes of him to be in WWE before people take any notice. Or at least, not dismiss him.

    It is the wrestling equivalent of the EPL fan who deems anyone who has not played in England to either be not up to it, or has yet to prove himself.


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    #47
    jaykhunter
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    Turn Orton heel. Turn Sheamus heel. Turn Cena heel. Heel heel heel. I'm walking in a heel wonderland.

    You don't need to turn to freshen your character. You need to freshen your character. Or, get an interesting storyline. Turns are the laziest tool in creative's arsenal to 'fix' stale wrestlers - It's the follow through that matters.


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    #48
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    I was never that into Benoits matches to begin with. I much preferred Eddie as a 'wrestletainer' and would have him well ahead of Benoit on my list of guys I like to watch.


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    #49
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    jaykhunter wrote: »
    Turn Orton heel. Turn Sheamus heel. Turn Cena heel. Heel heel heel. I'm walking in a heel wonderland.

    You don't need to turn to freshen your character. You need to freshen your character. Or, get an interesting storyline. Turns are the laziest tool in creative's arsenal to 'fix' stale wrestlers - It's the follow through that matters.

    Just get them all to wrestle Bryan and everyone will think they're incredible again. :pac:


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    #50
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    gimmick wrote: »
    It amazes me that it is takes the likes of him to be in WWE before people take any notice. Or at least, not dismiss him.

    It is the wrestling equivalent of the EPL fan who deems anyone who has not played in England to either be not up to it, or has yet to prove himself.
    Does this really happen much? Certainly not in here anyway?

    He's on another level again these days. Its one thing getting a thousand hardcore smarks to cheer for you but its an altogether different thing getting over with an audience thats been programmed all their lives to see pasty cruiserweights as nobodies. Personality wise too he's developed so well. He's gotten tongue in cheek self deprecating silliness off to a fine art these days.


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    #51
    ShagNastii
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    Not a so much a wrasslin' thought but when you think of the concept of the XFL, it was probably destined to fail.

    Imagine somebody setting up a rival "GAA championship" or even some kook trying to take on the EPL.


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    #52
    Sirsok
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭Sirsok


    gimmick wrote: »
    It amazes me that it is takes the likes of him to be in WWE before people take any notice. Or at least, not dismiss him.

    It is the wrestling equivalent of the EPL fan who deems anyone who has not played in England to either be not up to it, or has yet to prove himself.

    No it's the equivalent of a footballer not playing in a European league, the standard and exposure wwe gets worldwide is ridiculous, it is the measuring stick of wrestling for me personally.... Now I think the likes of the Briscoes and colt etc as awesome talents and don't look down on them because they are not in wwe, I can recognise their talent just like I would do neymar for example, but until neymar proves himself in Europe I wouldn't place him up with the likes of messi and ronaldo....

    Cream rises to the top and I believe wwe is the top.


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    #53
    ShagNastii
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    Sirsok wrote: »
    Cream rises to the top and I believe wwe is the top.

    As we're starting to see in the last few years in WWE. Ambrose, Bryan, Punk, Ohno.


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    #54
    Coutinho 10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭Coutinho 10


    I would love to see wrestlers change up their move set and be brave enough to do something different.


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    #55
    Ando's Saggy Bottom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Ando's Saggy Bottom


    We had this debate before on here. Comparing competitive sports like soccer to staged wrestling is a crap comparison.


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    #56
    DM_7
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    I would love to hear some of wrestlings best matches on the radio and commented on by good ol JM.

    Jimmy Magee that is.


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    #57
    Reebrock
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Reebrock


    ShagNastii wrote: »
    As we're starting to see in the last few years in WWE. Ambrose, Bryan, Punk, Ohno.

    What do you mean last few years? What about Hart(s), Eddie, Michaels, Savage Benoit, Edge... talent has always found a way to rise to the top because the fans bond with that irrespective of office preference for larger chaps. You don't have to have worked for smart mark indy promotions to have "risen" to the top.


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    #58
    ShagNastii
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    Yeah sorry I just named the current crop of guys that aren't exactly cookie cutter but are probably too good for it to pass them by.

    Bret/Owen/Benoit/Eddie/Edge et al all worthy of the same praise.


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    #59
    jaykhunter
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    I hate Triple H for what he did for many years in the mid-2000s but since he's taken a more prominent role, lots of new talent has come in the door. Now if we could just get them to book people in the same stratosphere as the mighty John Cena we'd be set. Either way in 5 years when many of the wrestlers hit their peak (Sheamo, Del Rio etc) and Cena's body has given out, WWE will be much better.


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    #60
    GTR63
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,469 ✭✭✭✭GTR63


    jaykhunter wrote: »
    I hate Triple H for what he did for many years in the mid-2000s but since he's taken a more prominent role, lots of new talent has come in the door. Now if we could just get them to book people in the same stratosphere as the mighty John Cena we'd be set. Either way in 5 years when many of the wrestlers hit their peak (Sheamo, Del Rio etc) and Cena's body has given out, WWE will be much better.

    Sheamo and ADR are in their mid 30's now so they'll want to mind themselves to maintain that peak.
    I do think of what WWE will be when the big names don't return for Mania anymore and they have to adapt for that.
    Exciting to look forward to that as a fan but it must be terrifying for WWE to be thinking about that now considering all the recent script rewrites.


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    #61
    bobby_says_hi
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭bobby_says_hi


    Yeah Cena's been getting injured more and more regularly recently. Contrary to what they tell us on TV, he's not invincible. I think the day he hangs up his boots or else pulls an Undertaker and only returns for big matches is drawing closer. Though the word is that Sheamus is being groomed to take his spot so you never know. It's kind of the same anticipation as when a big star gets injured and someone new will have to be pushed to fill that void


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