National Hurling League 2019 Discussion

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-02-2019 10:11pm

C__MC wrote: »

Based on the 3 games this weekend, it was pedestrian stuff at times. The league not important anymore.

I didn't think the match in Ennis was pedestrian at all.

Bonniedog · 03-02-2019 10:20pm

C__MC wrote: »

Based on the 3 games this weekend, it was pedestrian stuff at times. The league not important anymore.

It is not going to be important if it is turned into some Mary Poppins game of musical chairs where the number of chairs is always the same so nobody loses by being relegated!

What's the fkn point in a league like that? Only incentive is to make the play offs for the bigger teams as part of Summer preparation, and for teams like Dublin possibly to see getting to a final as a step in their progression.

Offaly got another hammering today and will quite likely end up losing all five games but still be in the division next year. It was sad to see them being put out of senior championship last year, but they are as bad as they've been since probably the early 70s, and going down and regrouping is surely preferable to a series of demoralising beatings including at hands of counties who rarely if ever beat them up to recent times.

LuckyGent88 · 04-02-2019 12:10am

How did Tim O Mahoney only get a yellow for that head high shoulder? Shocking challenge. And when you compare it to Tony kelly last week it makes a joke of refereeing consistency

feargale · 04-02-2019 12:26am

Bonniedog wrote: »

Carlow drew with Galway. You would have to go back a good few years for a similar upset.

Certainly Carlow's biggest achievement I can think of.

Carlow beat Cork in the league in the early 60s. Ring was playing and is said to have been impressed.

OldMrBrennan83 · 04-02-2019 12:27am

#carlowrising is a whole lot more palatable when it doesn't result in that Turlough lad patting himself on the back every 20 minutes or so.

feargale · 04-02-2019 12:31am

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is not going to be important if it is turned into some Mary Poppins game of musical chairs where the number of chairs is always the same so nobody loses by being relegated!

What's the fkn point in a league like that? Only incentive is to make the play offs for the bigger teams as part of Summer preparation, and for teams like Dublin possibly to see getting to a final as a step in their progression.

Offaly got another hammering today and will quite likely end up losing all five games but still be in the division next year. It was sad to see them being put out of senior championship last year, but they are as bad as they've been since probably the early 70s 50s and going down and regrouping is surely preferable to a series of demoralising beatings including at hands of counties who rarely if ever beat them up to recent times.

FYP.

feargale · 04-02-2019 12:44am

Bonniedog wrote: »

Just had another look at the proposals for the league next year. What a joke. Apparently the rationale is to allow teams the opportunity to "develop" by not demoting any of them!

Well, take the example of Carlow. They've won the Christy Ring, McDonagh and been promoted to 1B. So far, they've put it up to Dublin in Parnell and now drawn with Galway.

Now think on this. Had they not been promoted last year then they would have been left in what is effectively Division III until the committee men who couldn't give a flying fart about anything other than ensuring that certain counties are not insulted by maybe being relegated change their minds again!

Westmeath were on a similar upward trajectory ten years ago until fked over by the same cavemen.

I agree entirely.

The powers that be have been at this messing for at least half a century. The only really good team Kildare ever had were denied promotion in the 70s after they had earned it.. The goalposts were moved in mid-game, and not for the last time.
Sport is supposed to be fair, not a cynical exercise to preserve the strong. And any sporting organisation worth its salt would encourage the weak and spread the gospel.

There is too much tampering with the league structure, mostly for the cynical reasons aforesaid. If the league is properly set up in the first place it shouldn't be necessary
to change the structures every four years.

Stevecw · 04-02-2019 1:41am

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is not going to be important if it is turned into some Mary Poppins game of musical chairs where the number of chairs is always the same so nobody loses by being relegated!

What's the fkn point in a league like that? Only incentive is to make the play offs for the bigger teams as part of Summer preparation, and for teams like Dublin possibly to see getting to a final as a step in their progression.

Offaly got another hammering today and will quite likely end up losing all five games but still be in the division next year. It was sad to see them being put out of senior championship last year, but they are as bad as they've been since probably the early 70s, and going down and regrouping is surely preferable to a series of demoralising beatings including at hands of counties who rarely if ever beat them up to recent times.

There is still relegation from 1B this year, a lot of people seem to be confused about that. The bottom 2 teams in 1B will play each other in a relegation final. Winner of 2A joins the new Div 1 next year.
So if as you say Offaly lose all 5 games, they will play probably Laois in a relagation play off game, loser will be in 2A next season.

Huge result for Carlow today, well deserved too. Stuck with Galway well in 1st half and by far the better side in 2nd half. Super game, with great scores by both teams. Pity RTE hadn't a camera there.

RMAOK · 04-02-2019 1:47am

Stevecw wrote: »

Huge result for Carlow today, well deserved too. Stuck with Galway well in 1st half and by far the better side in 2nd half. Super game, with great scores by both teams. Pity RTE hadn't a camera there.

Tbf to rte (and I wouldn't be their biggest fan) they would have been spread pretty thin wrt the football and hurling and - to be blunt - the expectation was that Galway would win with a bit to spare, even with their second string.

That aside, great endorsement for the work that's been done in Carlow hurling over the last few years.

PTH2009 · 04-02-2019 1:49am

Stevecw wrote: »

There is still relegation from 1B this year, a lot of people seem to be confused about that. The bottom 2 teams in 1B will play each other in a relegation final. Winner of 2A joins the new Div 1 next year.
So if as you say Offaly lose all 5 games, they will play probably Laois in a relagation play off game, loser will be in 2A next season.

Huge result for Carlow today, well deserved too. Stuck with Galway well in 1st half and by far the better side in 2nd half. Super game, with great scores by both teams. Pity RTE hadn't a camera there.

I dont get why there's a 1A relegation match off there is no relegation

Stevecw · 04-02-2019 2:04am

PTH2009 wrote: »

I dont get why there's a 1A relegation match off there is no relegation

There is no 1A relegation match and I never said there was!
No promotion from 1B either.

There is a 1B relegation match though, and that will be a big game as the losers will drop to 2A next year.

In 1A this year there is nothing much to play for except making Top 4 and getting to League quarter finals.

In 1B there is more at stake, no promotion but Top 4 will also be in the quarters and bottom 2 will play off for relegation.

PTH2009 · 04-02-2019 2:20am

Stevecw wrote: »

There is no 1A relegation match and I never said there was!
No promotion from 1B either.

There is a 1B relegation match though, and that will be a big game as the losers will drop to 2A next year.

In 1A this year there is nothing much to play for except making Top 4 and getting to League quarter finals.

In 1B there is more at stake, no promotion but Top 4 will also be in the quarters and bottom 2 will play off for relegation.

There is a 1A relegation match scheduled for the 10th March

Obv just too determine what group the teams will be in 2020

Stevecw · 04-02-2019 2:21am

RMAOK wrote: »

Tbf to rte (and I wouldn't be their biggest fan) they would have been spread pretty thin wrt the football and hurling and - to be blunt - the expectation was that Galway would win with a bit to spare, even with their second string.

That aside, great endorsement for the work that's been done in Carlow hurling over the last few years.

I know that of course, huge amount of games to cover. Last week they did manage to show Galway/Laois & Dublin/Carlow from 1B though as well as the 1A hurling & Div 1 football.

Of course Galway would have been expected to win easy, 1/33 they were! It wasn't exactly a 2nd string team at all, 6 starters from AI final and a couple more of them came on. Joe Canning & Padraig Mannion played the 70 mins.
The only downside from a Carlow point of view is the lack of support, Galway must have outnumbered us by 20 to 1 today. No matter what Carlow hurlers do, they never get the same level of support that the footballers get!

Stevecw · 04-02-2019 2:24am

PTH2009 wrote: »

There is a 1A relegation match scheduled for the 10th March

Obv just too determine what group the teams will be in 2020

Oh sorry, didn't realize that, geeze that is the most pointless game ever so! Makes no difference who is in what group next year as it's all mixed up anyway! I suppose it gives the rest of both panels a run out if nothing else, a glorified challenge match!

Bonniedog · 04-02-2019 10:53am

Steve, I admit to being confused and went to trouble of re-reading what was said by Croke Park when decision was made to change the league structure.

"Following the 2019 League the top twelve teams will be redistributed to create two divisions of approximately equal strength. The two new divisions of six teams will be based on their finishing positions in 2019 and redrawn after two years."

That would sort of indicate to me that it will be same 12 teams, and Horan specifically said when asked after the meeting of the Elders of Zion that there being "no relegation" would allow teams to experiment and develop!

Yeah, well that's what the pre-season competitions, training and challenge matches are for, John.

C__MC · 04-02-2019 11:36am

Tipp were flogged in mid week - league irrelevant

It will help match fitness and sharpness

Kk were experimental mode in Ennis at times

dastardly00 · 04-02-2019 12:02pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Steve, I admit to being confused and went to trouble of re-reading what was said by Croke Park when decision was made to change the league structure.

"Following the 2019 League the top twelve teams will be redistributed to create two divisions of approximately equal strength. The two new divisions of six teams will be based on their finishing positions in 2019 and redrawn after two years."

That would sort of indicate to me that it will be same 12 teams, and Horan specifically said when asked after the meeting of the Elders of Zion that there being "no relegation" would allow teams to experiment and develop!

Yeah, well that's what the pre-season competitions, training and challenge matches are for, John.

So it sounds like in 2020 (and going forward?) there will be no relegation from the "new" equal-strength Division 1A or 1B (or whatever new title they will be called)?

Bonniedog · 04-02-2019 12:14pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

So it sounds like in 2020 (and going forward?) there will be no relegation from the "new" equal-strength Division 1A or 1B (or whatever new title they will be called)?

For two years at least. Only confusion is whether the same 12 teams at moment will be those still in the two top divisions or whether as Steve above says that one team from bottom of 1B will be relegated and replaced by winner of 2A.

He may be correct and I may have missed that part.

Ludicrous really. Might as well scrap the whole thing. For whatever about the top teams, it is complete running kick in the ar$e for those in the lower divisions who might god forbid have ambitions of bettering themselves and having the audacity to play in 1B! Why would they even bother any more??? Who decided this was a good idea?

dastardly00 · 04-02-2019 12:20pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

For two years at least. Only confusion is whether the same 12 teams at moment will be those still in the two top divisions or whether as Steve above says that one team from bottom of 1B will be relegated and replaced by winner of 2A.

He may be correct and I may have missed that part.

Ludicrous really. Might as well scrap the whole thing. For whatever about the top teams, it is complete running kick in the ar$e for those in the lower divisions who might god forbid have ambitions of bettering themselves and having the audacity to play in 1B! Why would they even bother any more??? Who decided this was a good idea?

There is definitely relegation from 1B this year... Colm Bonnar talks about the importance of retaining Div. 1B status in this article today.

spacetrap · 04-02-2019 1:47pm

C__MC wrote: »

Tipp were flogged in mid week - league irrelevant

It will help match fitness and sharpness

Kk were experimental mode in Ennis at times

How were Kilkenny in experimental mode . Clare were missing 6 players who started against Galway last August and Oisin O Brien who would have started if not injured is just back so Clare were missing a lot

mighty magpie · 04-02-2019 1:51pm

Maher's goal been shared around social media a lot. the blind pass and finish were great but does anyone feel that mcgrath didn't quite mean the first pass.

I think he's looking to play it to the tipp player behind the actual ball winner.

Bonniedog · 16-02-2019 8:34pm

Looks like Offaly are on their way to another hiding, at the hands of Laois. Hard to see how they are going to avoid the drop and what is effectively their banishment for several years to the second tier in league and championship.

They just gave up against Dublin once they had fallen behind by a few points. Sad to see.

RMAOK · 16-02-2019 8:41pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Looks like Offaly are on their way to another hiding, at the hands of Laois. Hard to see how they are going to avoid the drop and what is effectively their banishment for several years to the second tier in league and championship.

They just gave up against Dublin once they had fallen behind by a few points. Sad to see.

Offaly will have to put the work into underage teams - they haven't been competitive at minor or u-21 in years. They can't be expecting to be competing with the big boys when they have virtually nothing of the required standard coming through.

Cork look very loose in their match against Clare - the flukey goal distorts the scoreline imo.

Joe_ Public · 16-02-2019 8:58pm

Clare done all the hurling and only level. Crazy game!

eigrod · 16-02-2019 9:05pm

Clare much sharper - they have 2/3 men around every ball. Cork can’t get the ball to the obvious unmarked players then. Clare’s fouling keeping Cork in it.

JJs Left Hand · 16-02-2019 9:35pm

There's been a few soft ones but these Clare backs are seriously stupid

dirkmeister · 16-02-2019 9:40pm

That was well over from Tony Kelly.

C__MC · 16-02-2019 9:40pm

Very poor game - league pretty much just nothing now with championship / no relegation

nice_guy80 · 16-02-2019 10:46pm

Offaly should have been relegated a few years ago.
They are living in the 1990s still

brookville · 16-02-2019 10:56pm

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

There's been a few soft ones but these Clare backs are seriously stupid

couldnt believe how much fouling their backs done against kk the last day surely they would of learned their lesson but to give away a number of stupid frees again tonight is just stupid.

Davys Fits · 16-02-2019 10:58pm

brookville wrote: »

couldnt believe how much fouling their backs done against kk the last day surely they would of learned their lesson but to give away a number of stupid frees again tonight is just stupid.

They didnt learn a lesson last day because they won. Some of the fouls were just so frustrating to watch

Joe_ Public · 16-02-2019 11:14pm

Whatever about clare backs i thought that game underlined how much SOD is needed up front. Someone to put the head down and drive straight for goal, draw a free or create space for colleagues. So much possession and dominance in half forwards tonight but not a single goal chance that i can recall or barely the sniff of one. Cork, feeding off scraps for a good bit of it, had 2 or 3.

threeball · 16-02-2019 11:59pm

brookville wrote: »

couldnt believe how much fouling their backs done against kk the last day surely they would of learned their lesson but to give away a number of stupid frees again tonight is just stupid.

Especially when their manager referenced this as a key indicator they were watching from today's game.

dastardly00 · 17-02-2019 12:06am

Bonniedog wrote: »

Looks like Offaly are on their way to another hiding, at the hands of Laois. Hard to see how they are going to avoid the drop and what is effectively their banishment for several years to the second tier in league and championship.

They just gave up against Dublin once they had fallen behind by a few points. Sad to see.

I think Offaly will be relegated to Division 2 after the next round if they lose to Galway and Carlow beat Laois.

Bonniedog · 17-02-2019 10:29am

dastardly00 wrote: »

I think Offaly will be relegated to Division 2 after the next round if they lose to Galway and Carlow beat Laois.

They are depending on other results now. They have to beat Carlow - not a hope of beating Galway - and hope that Carlow beat Laois. But will be in relegation play off no matter what happens.

Carlow's hammering from Waterford unfortunately proves that when the bigger guns are not taking anything for granted that there is only one outcome.

dastardly00 · 18-02-2019 12:45am

Bonniedog wrote: »

They are depending on other results now. They have to beat Carlow - not a hope of beating Galway - and hope that Carlow beat Laois. But will be in relegation play off no matter what happens.

Carlow's hammering from Waterford unfortunately proves that when the bigger guns are not taking anything for granted that there is only one outcome.

Oh I had forgotten that there would be a relegation playoff (which I think is a load of nonsense). So Offaly may still yet survive!

PTH2009 · 18-02-2019 12:56am

dastardly00 wrote: »

Oh I had forgotten that there would be a relegation playoff (which I think is a load of nonsense). So Offaly may still yet survive!

The worst bit of nonsense in this league is there still playing the 1A relegation playoff

Basically too decide what group the teams goes into next year

PTH2009 · 18-02-2019 5:20pm

Could we sticky this as it will obv be asked and argued over the next few weeks

The League for 2020 will be as follows

Group A
1st placed team in 1A 2019
4th placed team in 1A 2019
Winner of 1A 5th/6th playoff 2019
2nd placed team in 1B 2019
3rd placed team in 1B 2019
div 2A winner

Group B
2nd placed team in 1A 2019
3rd placed team in 1A 2019
Loser of the 1A 5th/6th playoff 2019.
1st placed team in 1B 2019
4th placed team in 1B 2019
Winner of the 1B relegation playoff 2019 (5th vs 6th)

Groups to run on a two year cycle (2020, 2021)

– To be redrawn for 2022 and every two years thereafter based on formula above (“5th placed team Div 1B” to change to “Relegation final winners” for this purpose).

– Relegation from 2020 onwards to be after Relegation Play-Off between bottom placed team in Group A and Group B.

– Winner of Div 2A final is promoted annually to replace relegated team1st placed team in each group to advance directly to Allianz Hurling League Semi Final2nd and 3rd placed teams from each group to meet in “crossover” quarter finals (2nd 1A v 3rd 1B and 3rd 1A v 2nd 1B).

Bonniedog · 18-02-2019 5:34pm

Judging by that they have changed the format since it was first announced as there were to be two years without any relegation from top two.

If that is the case then the changes make almost no difference!

Rightly so I have to say in regard to winner of 2A having the chance to go up, but a bit farcical that otherwise Groups A and B don't change at all!

Are any of them familiar with the phrase "leave well enough alone?"

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-02-2019 6:22pm

Could they not have made it a top division and a second tier? And then just rename 2A as 3, 2B as 4, etc. Such a bloody faff.

Bonniedog · 18-02-2019 6:32pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Could they not have made it a top division and a second tier? And then just rename 2A as 3, 2B as 4, etc. Such a bloody faff.

Ah now!

Hurling would die so it would if certain counties were relegated to a Division Two. So division two was called in a stroke of Orwellian inspiration: 1B

OldMrBrennan83 · 18-02-2019 6:34pm

And not even 1B any more. Hurling does need a good strong dose of 'if you're relegated then you should have played better'. Same as all these teams in football moaning about a tier 2 - stop being shít then.

Bonniedog · 18-02-2019 6:40pm

Indeed. No-one gave a flying fart when it was Laois, Dublin, Westmeath, Antrim up and down like a whoor's drawers.

But god forbid that one of God's Elect pay the price for not being as good as they are in their own minds.

And no, I am not talking about Kilkenny who have never once engaged in any special pleading - not that they need to - and who have stuck up for the little guys when they were shafted by the committee men in the past.

Davys Fits · 18-02-2019 11:10pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Indeed. No-one gave a flying fart when it was Laois, Dublin, Westmeath, Antrim up and down like a whoor's drawers.

But god forbid that one of God's Elect pay the price for not being as good as they are in their own minds.

And no, I am not talking about Kilkenny who have never once engaged in any special pleading - not that they need to - and who have stuck up for the little guys when they were shafted by the committee men in the past.

Offaly were a so called 'elite' team not too long ago and their downfall continues without interference. Im not sure who or what you are referring to? If Galway or Waterford ended up fighting for their lives in div1b there would be something seriously wrong and I dont expect it would happen in one season either. Thats just fact not elitist.

Bonniedog · 18-02-2019 11:29pm

Cork, Wexford and Limerick all kicked up over their being relegated since 2006. Which is why they invented 1A and 1B. It's really only a psychological thing and the play offs mean that there is little difference between the games for the top ten teams in 1A and B. Only issue ever was relegation from B and that has involved more or less the same teams every year since 1B was set up.

None of the top ten teams are in danger of being relegated to what is in reality the third division. It was being relegated from the old division one (now 1A!) that offended the above. That hasn't mattered since new structure and won't matter in one next year.

On the other hand, Westmeath were thrown out of the Leinster SHC and denied league promotion at a time when they were improving. And there was an attempt to stop Dublin being promoted in 2006 after winning ten games in a row to win division II.

The original plan for next year by the way was no promotion from 2A. That seems to have been changed. Which is a good thing.

PTH2009 · 18-02-2019 11:38pm

Be some laugh if they made the league open draw with teams from 1A-3B

Champions league style

of the many potential ties
Limerick vs Cavan
Kilkenny vs Sligo
London vs Clare
Waterford vs Louth
Tipp vs Leitrim
Galway vs Wicklow
Wexford vs Tyrone
Cork vs Monaghan

dastardly00 · 19-02-2019 11:27am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Be some laugh if they made the league open draw with teams from 1A-3B

Champions league style

of the many potential ties
Limerick vs Cavan
Kilkenny vs Sligo
London vs Clare
Waterford vs Louth
Tipp vs Leitrim
Galway vs Wicklow
Wexford vs Tyrone
Cork vs Monaghan

We'd get to visit some GAA grounds that we've never been to so that would be a positive

Bonniedog · 24-02-2019 6:10pm

Interesting results today.

Limerick still on top with four teams on 4 points and Tipp languishing at bottom but could still make the play offs if they beat Cork.

In 1B, Dublin, Galway and Waterford all assured of play off place with fourth place or relegation game for Laois or Carlow down to last. Offaly already in relegation spot.

Dublin will beat Laois so Carlow need to beat Offaly which they should and avoid relegation play off and get to quarters which would be a nice achievement for them apart from guaranteeing safety.

Stevecw · 25-02-2019 2:45am

Bonniedog wrote: »

Interesting results today.

Limerick still on top with four teams on 4 points and Tipp languishing at bottom but could still make the play offs if they beat Cork.

In 1B, Dublin, Galway and Waterford all assured of play off place with fourth place or relegation game for Laois or Carlow down to last. Offaly already in relegation spot.

Dublin will beat Laois so Carlow need to beat Offaly which they should and avoid relegation play off and get to quarters which would be a nice achievement for them apart from guaranteeing safety.

That last min free today was huge for Carlow, a draw keeps it in our hands. Beat Offaly next week and we stay up in 1B which would be amazing! Gets us to a qf too, v winners of 1A I see! Ok well, that is something hopefully we have to worry about next week and not be thinking about playing Offaly again in a relegation final. After drawing with Galway that wud be a big let down.

Bonniedog · 25-02-2019 10:19am

Staying up will be the big achievement for Carlow. A quarter final very likely against AI champions Limerick is a bonus of some sort!

When Dublin were in similar situation it was the donkey work done to stay up and/or be promoted that counted towards progress. Shipped some horrific hidings on the way against better opposition so attitude towards those games needs to be good; not seeing them as massive setbacks but part of the learning curve.

National Hurling League 2019 Discussion

Comments