HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

KoolKid wrote: »

It will do it for free via another path or it could be set up an a paid service in any number of ways via either another ATS or via any number of GSM options. We have researched international SIM charges and it could well be set up in a number of ways for cheaper than €4.99 per month.

So just like the HKC the Siemens system can have a secondary means of communication that does not have a single point of failure.
However the similarities do not end there, just like HKC the Siemens system charge for this too

The obvious question is: What does this cost?

Remember HKC are not a monitoring Station

Even I worked that one out
My point is that the App notifies the end user of alarm events automatically.

KoolKid wrote: »

I have researched this and it could be a little as €2 per month. We are also looking into many other options and ways of doing this. The new set up of the Siemens software makes lots of options possible.
Again many of these options or costs may well be short term as I am promised Siemens are looking at their own poll fail options down the road as well.

Ok, so let me get this straight:

I want an alarm system to notify me when it is down that has totally independent means of communications (no common point of failure) without me having to open the APP the HKC system will cost €4.99 a month and the Siemens will cost me €2.00

Is this correct?

So I can save almost €36 per year.
Lets get real, this is a fraction of the average annual monitoring and service contract.

Are we splitting hairs or am I missing something?

I think we are back to your earlier point:

The only difference I see is who you pay.

KoolKid wrote: »

A saving is a saving if you want it.

A €36 saving only applies if everything else is equal.
This could be negated just by shopping around and using a different alarm installer.
My point being that the customer may not actually get charged €36 per annum less just because they select a Siemens system rather than a HKC.

You can also goto GSD and get it all for no charges.

So the GSD will notify me when it is down, has two totally independent means of communications (no common point of failure) and will notify me of alarm events without me having to open the APP? ...and all of this for free? Why bother with Siemens? :P

On the other side of the coin is the vast majority of customers....

There is.......and many of them buy systems that have no perimeter protection, fake bell boxes and they pay over the odds for monitoring and maintenance

Most laypeople have no concept of this. They find an alarm installer that they trust, they may or may not shop around. In the end they will most likely go with the recommendation that the alarm installer makes.

Here's my question.
So I just want a system that will notify me of any alarm event and give me an app to control the system remotely. I don't want to pay for every app I need and I don't want to pay annual service fees.
What's the benefits of HKC here?

For a nominal free an end user can have a notification of an alarm event without having to continually open the app to confirm that it has not lost comms.

Why do HKC not allow this basic service for free like Siemens GSD UTC and Risco?

I can't speak for them, but I imagine they believe that some people would rather pay a small amount per annum in return for extra security. Clearly they are correct in some cases, but not in all.

I think you are missing the point, if the largest significant difference that you can point to is a cost of €36 a year then both systems very, very similar in terms of functionality, price and user interface.

If the price of the app is that important how are HKC still in business?

KoolKid wrote: »

But your alarm isn't for a year. All going well you may get 15 years or more out of it. As we all well know annual fees only go one way & that's up.

...and in 15 years if you put all of those coins in a jar... Come on!! :D:D

Clearly:
1) Many customers don't care or HKC would be out of business.
2) This "saving" is not necessarily being passed onto customers. Service contacts alone may vary by far more than €36 a year. I know your advice is to shop around and I agree, but clearly many people don't.

It will notify when the system is down once a poll is missing. It will notify you via push notifications without having to open the app. It will notify you instantly if an entry time is started (or any alarm event) & followed by a comms fail to the server.(Smash & grab alert).

Yup, both systems will do this for practically the same price....

Why bother with Siemens??
I don't only use Siemens, I use most panels, as I said earlier there is no one panel that suits every application.

Siemens makes some great kit, I agree with you there.
I spent a lot of money on their equipment last year (not alarm gear).
My point is that a small price differential is not the primary driver for many people.
There are other considerations that are far more important to many people.
Would you not agree?
I doubt that cost is your only consideration when selecting components?

And usually what their answer would be is I didn't know. My installer never told me that.

I disagree, in my opinion you are describing the exception not the rule.
Many, many people will never understand ¼ of the contents of this thread no matter how patiently it is explained.
They want ther nicer user interface and / or they believe "what the nice man says".

And there lies the problem... This industry is full of installers who want to install what they want, not what suits the customers needs or wants.

If it is a toss up between the HKC and the Siemens so what? They are both excellent systems.
We both know that there are plenty of satisfied customers that have purchased HKC systems and there are plenty of satisfied customers that have purchased Siemens systems.
The specifications, programming / set up and installation of these systems is far more important that which make they went for.

Let's be honest both of us would be far more concerned about homes that are protected by systems that have no perimeter protection, no working bell box, and a very accessible phone line.

With Siemens you will get instant notification via email or emails.With Risco you push notifications & emails. With GSD you get push notifications and network fail alerts.
While we keep going back to this as being a nominal fee for Siemens & HKC do you not acknowledge that the free options that are offered are a plus for those panels & a negative for HKC?

Anything that adds an additional cost is a negative.
However we need to get a sense of perspective, the smaller the additional cost the less different it makes.
Let's get real, this is peanuts.

Besides, if €36 a year means that much to someone they are most likely not going to buy a HKC or Siemens panel anyway, it will be out of their price range.

Apart from the domestic installations, you think that the average small / medium / large business would care about €36 a year saving? They will write it off on tax and claim back the VAT anyway.

Many people are prepared to pay a small additional amount if they feel that they are getting something for it.
If this was not the case nobody would buy an iPhone. You may argue that the Siemens is superior quality to the HKC, and perhaps you are correct.
However you have to accept that there will always be a significant number of people that will have an opposing view.

I know someone that has a Siemens and a HKC system in two separate premises. He prefers the app for the HKC and does not mind paying the extra charge. Each to their own.

Obviously you feel that there are situations where the Siemens is preferable to the GSD, so you pay the extra cost. Why? I imagine it is because there are other considerations.

Does that make them a good security company?

A business is a business is a business. It makes them a commercially successful company and brand that many people have a lot of faith in.

I think most installers here would answer that one with a no.

I think that most accountants would say yes even if their installations were proven to be less secure.
Unfortunately that is the sad truth and we both know it.
It also proves my point, branding influences the customer more than quality/ specifications / value for money or security. Your €36 per year "saving" will not sway many people.

KoolKid wrote: »

Most monitoring is sold on at a profit like any other products. The difference is there is no central station monitoring that's available for free.

No amount of criticism of the HKC charges will change the fact that alarm installers get a kick back from the monitoring stations. Clearly there is a financial incentive for alarm installers to get customers to sign up for monitoring via a central station.

Can you really not see any parallels with alarm installers getting a commission when a customer signs up for an app? Seriously?

By the way I agree that the HKC charges are excessive and the polling has gone to r@tshít but these systems are still selling like hot cakes.