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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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    #62
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    we have always held our police force to a very low standard in this country , add to that the media has shown far too much deference towards them


    I'd agree, but at least part of the reason is that they have a history of generally conducting themselves well.
    If they were assaulting people left right and centre or shaking down everyone for bribes then the pressure for reform would be inexorable.
    Instead they're broadly liked, if considered somewhat ineffectual, so they've been more or less left alone.


    The problem is that certain rotten boroughs developed from this, and a very poor senior management culture in particular. When these problems came to a head in the last decade or so it was necessary to look elsewhere for a Commissioner with the requisite qualities, the senior ranks promotion system was so broken.


    I'd blame the politicians for this first and foremost. For a long time loyalty to them took precedence over proper policing if you wanted to climb to the top of the greasy pole. Haughey having former Special Branch man turned pet Minister for Justice Sean Doherty arrange wiretaps of journalists he didn't like through Deputy Commissioner Two Gun Joe Ainsworth was the best known example of this but really politicians of every stripe right up to the current day have abused their position to get with they want from the Gardaí and turned a blind eye to issues within it in return. Just look at how Garda issues repeatedly get kicked into touch with indefinite reviews, boards, tribunals and interminable squabbling over terms of reference until the nettle has to be grasped, and then the changes are as minor as possible. The effect of all this on the culture within the force must be utterly poisonous, and they deserve better, as do the rest of us.


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    #63
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,733 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Cops love power trips, and for some reason you CAN NOT ADVISE them. They were asked multiple times to let him breathe, and in a cops mind that means '' I now can not let him breathe , I can not remove my knee from his neck at the request of a by stander , I am a cop ''
    That's the truth of it, the reason he could not listen to anyone, ''how dare they tell me what to do''
    They're like robots.


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    #64
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Ballso wrote: »
    Surely it's time for black America to arm itself

    Rapidly followed by police departments going into black communities in Mrap vehicle and cops armed to the teeth shooting anyone they believe is a threat to them,alone with every hillbilly thinking it's open season on all negro's not just the one's jogging
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #65
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ballso wrote: »
    Surely it's time for black America to arm itself and kick off a PIRA style campaign against legitimate law enforcement targets
    That won't end well.


    Not to mention that black america (and everyone of sound mind in america) can already arm itself.


    Unlike this silly country where only terrorists and thugs can arm themselves.


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    #66
    Birneybau
    Registered Users Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    friendlyfun wrote: »
    That has no bearing on this situation, or any situation. You can't just murder someone if they are not posing a threat. This is excessive use of force for a guy being arrested for a non violent crime.

    Like a previous poster, you missed the sarcasm of the post you quoted.


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    #67
    friendlyfun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    Birneybau wrote: »
    Like a previous poster, you missed the sarcasm of the post you quoted.

    It's very hard to judge sarcasm on this forum sometimes. Maybe people could add in a /s because it isn't always obvious.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    I'm gonna have to know this guy Floyd's criminal history before I decide whether the cop should be charged with his death or should walk away scott free icon14.png
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i think you missed the sarcasm in the post

    Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but I don't think Billy Mays was being sarcastic? His response seems fairly reasonable to me.

    If the Police were being heavy handed with him needlessly then that's one thing, but if the video started recording after yer man had been battering the sh/te out of the police, and was well known to them for a range of issues, then I can see why they'd be heavy handed and make life as uncomfortable for him as they can.

    I presume they didn't intend to kill him, but there are many scumbags in my own town that I'd happily watch the Gardai choke to death as they'll never be anything but grief for the general population. If Mr. Floyd fits that bill, then I can't say I've much sympathy.

    However, if it is as is being presented, that the Police were completely over the top and needlessly heavy handed, then I could see why there may be outrage over it.

    All I know is I've managed to make it 32 years without a Garda ever having to pin me down to the ground or attack me. I don't think this Floyd chap is Mr Innocent, but I admit to not knowing the full story.


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    #69
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    Gatling wrote: »
    Rapidly followed by police departments going into black communities in Mrap vehicle and cops armed to the teeth shooting anyone they believe is a threat to them,alone with every hillbilly thinking it's open season on all negro's not just the one's jogging

    Seems likely but surely that was the same for other resistance movements throughout history. Rising up against colonial empires was no picnic like. What's the alternative, just continue to allow your people be murdered by police and other racists in plain sight?

    Something has to give eventually.


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    #70
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but I don't think Billy Mays was being sarcastic? His response seems fairly reasonable to me.
    .

    Billy Mays thanked the post you quoted so i'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic. and continuing to kneel on the neck of somebody who is already restrained and says they cannot breathe is not reasonable in any universe i'm aware of. i didnt bother quoting the rest as it is complete scutter.


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    #71
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm reading it wrongly, but I don't think Billy Mays was being sarcastic? His response seems fairly reasonable to me.

    If the Police were being heavy handed with him needlessly then that's one thing, but if the video started recording after yer man had been battering the sh/te out of the police, and was well known to them for a range of issues, then I can see why they'd be heavy handed and make life as uncomfortable for him as they can.

    I presume they didn't intend to kill him, but there are many scumbags in my own town that I'd happily watch the Gardai choke to death as they'll never be anything but grief for the general population. If Mr. Floyd fits that bill, then I can't say I've much sympathy.

    However, if it is as is being presented, that the Police were completely over the top and needlessly heavy handed, then I could see why there may be outrage over it.

    All I know is I've managed to make it 32 years without a Garda ever having to pin me down to the ground or attack me. I don't think this Floyd chap is Mr Innocent, but I admit to not knowing the full story.

    A 10 minute clip, which for over 7 minutes of it has a cop with his knee on his neck.. there is no "yeah but what happened before" during the whole clip he was in handcuffs, at the point of getting handcuffs on the threat level has decreased substantially, there's 4 officers in attendance..


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Billy Mays thanked the post you quoted so i'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic. and continuing to kneel on the neck of somebody who is already restrained and says they cannot breathe is not reasonable in any universe i'm aware of. i didnt bother quoting the rest as it is complete scutter.


    Absolutely reasonable in my eyes, depending on the person being restrained. Everybody 'can't breathe' when you're trying to restrain them. It's wheeled out loads of people who get taken down by the police and are being forcibly restrained.

    If he was a waste of space scumbag, I've no issue with the Police going hard on him. If he wasn't, then that's obviously different.

    Why were they restraining him for so long? Instead of throwing him straight into the car and away? Is there a reason given for that? (I am told there's a longer video but haven't seen it)


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    A 10 minute clip, which for over 7 minutes of it has a cop with his knee on his neck.. there is no "yeah but what happened before" during the whole clip he was in handcuffs, at the point of getting handcuffs on the threat level has decreased substantially, there's 4 officers in attendance..


    Haven't seen the full video. Does it start at the beginning of the Police/Floyd meeting? Or have the Police already gotten the upper hand by the time we're allowed see what plays out?


    4 Officers in attendance and still restraining him on the ground doesn't strike me as though they were dealing with a 'normal' person.


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    #74
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Absolutely reasonable in my eyes, depending on the person being restrained. Everybody 'can't breathe' when you're trying to restrain them. It's wheeled out loads of people who get taken down by the police and are being forcibly restrained.

    If he was a waste of space scumbag, I've no issue with the Police going hard on him. If he wasn't, then that's obviously different.

    Why were they restraining him for so long? Instead of throwing him straight into the car and away? Is there a reason given for that? (I am told there's a longer video but haven't seen it)

    you especially cannot breathe when somebody is kneeling on your neck.

    going hard is not what you said. you said you would happily watch the gardai choke somebody to death. a scumbag thing to say


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you especially cannot breathe when somebody is kneeling on your neck.

    going hard is not what you said. you said you would happily watch the gardai choke somebody to death. a scumbag thing to say


    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.


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    #76
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Haven't seen the full video. Does it start at the beginning of the Police/Floyd meeting? Or have the Police already gotten the upper hand by the time we're allowed see what plays out?


    4 Officers in attendance and still restraining him on the ground doesn't strike me as though they were dealing with a 'normal' person.

    How's about go watch the clip and come back with your opinion, not the belief of people interacting with cops/gardai are bad people and deserve to treated like sh!t.


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    #77
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    looks like an open and shut case this one.


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    #78
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.
    Same


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    #79
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.

    You sound pretty scummy yourself there. Probably wouldn't be long until you're the one being choked to death in front of an audience.


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    #80
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    All the racists from the Arbery thread are gone very quiet altogether.


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    #81
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.

    And what if one of the scum resembles you and they end up killing you by mistake?


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ballso wrote: »
    You sound pretty scummy yourself there. Probably wouldn't be long until you're the one being choked to death in front of an audience.

    No, I very much get on with my life. Do what I can to help out my neighbours and am usually at the forefront of offering assistance to any of the more "vulnerable" in my area. Many of them are plagued with criminals that wreck their quality of life.

    You won't see me getting choked by a Garda anytime soon as I stay on the correct side of the law.


    It's neither here nor there though - the police in this video are being accused of deliberately murdering the man, because he is black. I don't buy into that at all, as being the case. I'm sure they didn't mean for him to die, but if he was resisting on a grand scale, and was well known for being dangerous to the Police, then I can fully understand why the Police would be heavy handed with him in return.

    Naturally, if he wasn't known to them, and a full video of the whole encounter shows him cooperating with them, then I'd agree with them being fired, and would argue that they should be looking at murder charges being brought against them.


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    #83
    Hrududu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    magma69 wrote: »
    All the racists from the Arbery thread are gone very quiet altogether.
    They're busy scrolling through reddit and double checking google maps so that they can come in here and justify this killing too.


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    #84
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.

    Who determines if they're scum? Who decides what level of scumminess means they should die? What level of evidence is required?


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    #85
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's probably a middle ground to be reached, but I'd rather watch the Gardai killing off the scum in my area than watch them take abuse off them.

    the gardai conducting extra-judicial killings is not something that anybody with an ounce of decency should want. i cant believe that has to be spelled out.


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    #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    And what if one of the scum resembles you and they end up killing you by mistake?


    I'm not sure how to reply to that. I don't know what you mean, to be honest. :o


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    #87
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No, I very much get on with my life. Do what I can to help out my neighbours and am usually at the forefront of offering assistance to any of the more "vulnerable" in my area. Many of them are plagued with criminals that wreck their quality of life.

    You won't see me getting choked by a Garda anytime soon as I stay on the correct side of the law.


    It's neither here nor there though - the police in this video are being accused of deliberately murdering the man, because he is black. I don't buy into that at all, as being the case. I'm sure they didn't mean for him to die, but if he was resisting on a grand scale, and was well known for being dangerous to the Police, then I can fully understand why the Police would be heavy handed with him in return.

    Naturally, if he wasn't known to them, and a full video of the whole encounter shows him cooperating with them, then I'd agree with them being fired, and would argue that they should be looking at murder charges being brought against them.

    You're on the internet fantasising about watching the police choking someone you don't like to death. You are the epitome of a scumbag.


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    #88
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm not sure how to reply to that. I don't know what you mean, to be honest. :o

    *Insert facepalm*


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    #89
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not sure how to reply to that. I don't know what you mean, to be honest. :o

    It's not like we haven't been there before on this island, we know how this ends up


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    #90
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Ballso wrote: »
    Surely it's time for black America to arm itself and kick off a PIRA style campaign against legitimate law enforcement targets

    Have you never heard of the Black Panthers? The IRA kinda copied their look.

    For me, the massive issue with America is the way they criminalise so many minor transgressions like writing a bad cheque. I know that is fraud, but why can't you just refuse to accept the cheque and send the person packing - why do they need to call the police?

    An old friend lives in the States and the first year he lived there, he got arrested twice for walking home with a few beers on him. He wasn't all that drunk and I think he simply stopped walking home even though the bars he frequented were a five minute walk away.


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    magma69 wrote: »
    All the racists from the Arbery thread are gone very quiet altogether.

    Ffs. Give the race baiting a rest.


This discussion has been closed.
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